Opinion: Windows 8 Is Unusable

Stiletto said:
The last sentence of that post was broken and fragmented, as is the first sentence of the post I'm quoting here.
Click to expand...

If you say so, neither one showed any errors in Word 2013. Even if there are errors you don't seem to be having any issues understanding the statements.

Stiletto said:
And if you want to play Godwin already, that's your call, but little surprise. I assume it just gives you a chance to break away from the "I was only asking how you could be so stupid as to not think Windows 8 is better than God and bacon and puppies thrown into a blender and served in a Guinness glass" bullshit that you so routinely employ.
Click to expand...

I have no idea how this has any relation to the question I asked about regarding difficulty of the edge swipes on touchscreens in Windows 8.
 
I'll point out that children have effectively unlimited time to use the OS and are under no productivity constraints.

Adults, in a professional setting, have tasks and a given amount of time to accomplish those tasks. As companies down size, the number of tasks tends to increase and the time to accomplish them tends to decrease.

Most sources of error in a process are human related. They can be tracked down to simple mistakes, bad assumptions, missed values, etc.

Every change in interface style is an opportunity for error. Every mouse click adds time and another potential source of error. Every time the entire screen is changed between maximized windows is another potential source of error. Windows 8 appears to add more potential sources of error than its predecessor.

Just because a child can make something appear easy does not mean it is optimal, effective or reliable.
 
Dekoth-E- said:
The die hard defenders can say all they want, you can call him a poser or bash him for only using it 30 minutes. The reality is more and more people who do this for a living and analyze usability as a profession are lining up against Win 8. A hand full of us bitching on a tech forum, sure you can still argue against us. Once the industry starts turning against it, well defending it just becomes blind fanboyism.

Win 8 was a terrible design decision and he is right, everyone who pushed it through should be fired. It was fine for a Tablet OS only and it had a chance of succeeding as a Tablet OS only. However when MS decided to force it on non touch devices and ignore all the building dissent to it and then eliminated the Start menu despite extremely vocal protests, they doomed it to failure. Windows 8 is a complete disaster and anyone who says otherwise at this point is a moron.
Click to expand...

A large chunk of the gaming industry is already turning against it.
 
Red Falcon said:
Even though Windows 8 is clunky and looks like a girly-girl OS, even I know this will not happen on the desktop.
Linux is always going to be in use for custom devices, enterprise, and those with lots of time on their hands.

It has too steep of a learning curve for the average user to just pick up and use.
Even Ubuntu 12.xx (Unity-only) and Mint xx are still too much for those who want to do anything beyond "surf the web".
Click to expand...

The majority of popular Linux distributions at this point (including Ubuntu which is more or less the default for most now) have less of a learning curve than Windows 8 and I'd argue less of a learning curve than Mac OSX as well, but since I've not used Macs in a bit I can't say that with any real certainty.

It is undoubtedly true though that Unity/Gnome 3 in many ways represent a step back for Linux, but with the exception of Gnome 3 all DEs/WMs on popular Linux distros have far better discoverability than Windows 8.
 
nOrVow said:
Oh god... another Windows 8 thread? Can't we just stop talking about it and let the turd die? :D
Click to expand...

Mwhahahaha!!! Yet another one I can add to my "list". :D
Seriously though, Windows 8 does have some big issues, but I will say that the back-end is far more optimized than Windows 7.

Truth be told, for the old school user, Start8 is a must, and since it's only $5, it's really not that big of a deal.
Whatever, as long as these threads exist, the battle between heatlesssun and myself will continue on for all eternity!!!

Foolish Saiyan monkey!!!
Goku_VS_Freeza_by_goku003.png
 
Runningflame570 said:
The majority of popular Linux distributions at this point (including Ubuntu which is more or less the default for most now) have less of a learning curve than Windows 8 and I'd argue less of a learning curve than Mac OSX as well, but since I've not used Macs in a bit I can't say that with any real certainty.

It is undoubtedly true though that Unity/Gnome 3 in many ways represent a step back for Linux, but with the exception of Gnome 3 all DEs/WMs on popular Linux distros have far better discoverability than Windows 8.
Click to expand...

I was more or less talking about the back-end and using CLI to do tasks.
Yeah, Unity vs Modern UI... I think if I had the choice I would just use Aqua. :p

I guess the front-end of Linux isn't too bad on Ubuntu or Mint though.
 
Bamboo said:
A large chunk of the gaming industry is already turning against it.
Click to expand...

On Steam the percentage of Windows 8 users is currently much higher than the overall percentage of Windows 8 users in the desktop market according to Steams last hardware survey and the net traffic counters.
 
Runningflame570 said:
The majority of popular Linux distributions at this point (including Ubuntu which is more or less the default for most now) have less of a learning curve than Windows 8 and I'd argue less of a learning curve than Mac OSX as well, but since I've not used Macs in a bit I can't say that with any real certainty.

It is undoubtedly true though that Unity/Gnome 3 in many ways represent a step back for Linux, but with the exception of Gnome 3 all DEs/WMs on popular Linux distros have far better discoverability than Windows 8.
Click to expand...

Windows 8 is nearly 100% hardware and software compatible with Windows 7. What you say might be true but probably only in the most basic scenarios.
 
Red Falcon said:
I was more or less talking about the back-end and using CLI to do tasks.
Yeah, Unity vs Modern UI... I think if I had the choice I would just use Aqua. :p

I guess the front-end of Linux isn't too bad on Ubuntu or Mint though.
Click to expand...

That is comparing apples and oranges, but if we're talking about the CLI then on Linux it's far more powerful and easier to use than on Windows. You might point out PowerShell, but the syntax it uses is poor IMO.

There is very little need to hit the CLI on Linux these days or for the last several years though. Graphical tools exist for most non-enterprise purposes and the most commonly used/important ones have been well-refined for years. I'd not like to sidetrack this too much, but what specific tasks do you see that a home user would be interested in that can't be done or done relatively easily via a GUI on Linux?
 
heatlesssun said:
Windows 8 is nearly 100% hardware and software compatible with Windows 7. What you say might be true but probably only in the most basic scenarios.
Click to expand...

Let me ask you then, what is the point of using Windows 8 if you're sticking to the old desktop interface? You can point out some things I'm sure, but from the perspective of a non-power user what is there in Windows 8 that someone would care about if they're just going to use their old software?

It would seem to me that it would save time to just stick with Windows 7-which I'll admit is actually fairly pleasant to use-instead of having to deal with the extra step Windows 8 requires to get to the desktop.
 
Runningflame570 said:
Let me ask you then, what is the point of using Windows 8 if you're sticking to the old desktop interface? You can point out some things I'm sure, but from the perspective of a non-power user what is there in Windows 8 that someone would care about if they're just going to use their old software?

It would seem to me that it would save time to just stick with Windows 7-which I'll admit is actually fairly pleasant to use-instead of having to deal with the extra step Windows 8 requires to get to the desktop.
Click to expand...

The point would be to develop familiarity with it out of curiosity or need. I use Windows 8 but I honestly can't say there's a good reason to switch to of, the mentioned reasons aside. It's not really "bad" though and is quite usable as an OS.
 
Oldie said:
The point would be to develop familiarity with it out of curiosity or need. I use Windows 8 but I honestly can't say there's a good reason to switch to of, the mentioned reasons aside. It's not really "bad" though and is quite usable as an OS.
Click to expand...

That really isn't much of a reason at all though, Windows 8 is unlikely to be widely adopted by businesses and outside of that I don't see why someone who sees their computer as an appliance would feel the need to develop familiarity.
 
Runningflame570 said:
Let me ask you then, what is the point of using Windows 8 if you're sticking to the old desktop interface? You can point out some things I'm sure, but from the perspective of a non-power user what is there in Windows 8 that someone would care about if they're just going to use their old software?
Click to expand...

Why not just whatever kind of software one wants to use depending on the need and the situation? It's not an either or scenario.

Runningflame570 said:
It would seem to me that it would save time to just stick with Windows 7-which I'll admit is actually fairly pleasant to use-instead of having to deal with the extra step Windows 8 requires to get to the desktop.
Click to expand...

If one only wants to use Windows with a keyboard and mouse then Windows 7 is still viable.
 
LastQuestion said:
The migration to Linux begins.
Click to expand...

Had a brief moment of frustration with Windows 8 last week and decided to give Linux Mint 14 (Cinnamon 64-bit) a go. Couldn't get past installation because Grub failed to install or something like that. Went forum-sifting to try to find a solution, and though the solution I found was seemingly simple, I couldn't apply it because the partitioning tool wouldn't stop crashing. After sifting through more forums and vainly fighting with the installer for about half an hour, I gave up trying to install Mint and instead just messed around with the live CD. All of my hardware and peripherals were found and installed, but for whatever reason my wireless printer and bluetooth mouse just won't work. I installed and played a game, which was great until I exited out of it, at which point it resized my screen in such a way that I couldn't reverse the change or reach the buttons to prompt a reboot or shutdown. A forced shutdown later, I just reinstalled Windows 8.

I tried, man. :(
 
This guy isn't very smart....enough said. Take some time to learn the OS...wtf
 
But what about normal people, who buy new PCs

Let me make an example. I recently helped my sister and her family pick out a new computer. The only option of course was Windows 8. I watched as they tried to use it, and she couldn't figure out how to do common things she knows how to do quite well under Windows 7. It was down right hard, to figure simple things out. I sat down, and for the longest time, even I couldn't figure out how to close Metro apps. It took googling it, to find out you had to pull from the top of the app down, to close Metro apps. It took me an entire day to figure that one thing out. How in the world can Microsoft expect normal, non techy people, like my sister, to figure these things out. Or my mom, and dad, for that matter.

It's just too far removed from what we know about Windows UI. And, he makes great point, the Metro UI is stapled onto the old Desktop UI, the continuity doesn't flow. Two separate rules for the OS, depending on what mode you are in.

I like what the Nelson lady said, it's a product for consumption, not for productivity. Windows 8, IMO, is worse than Vista, and worse than ME. I will be personally be staying away from it on my primary computer. I use my computer for productivity. I'll be skipping Windows 8, and see what Windows 9 has to offer when it is out.
 
i was quite happy sitting on the sidelines of the 'Win8 debate'. i did try and add to the 'discussion' when win8 was pre-RTM however win8 'proponents' like heatless made it impossible for me to give a shit anymore. still viewed the occasional thread dedicated to win8 tho only as a form of entertainment.

personally i have a copy of win8 (RC) installed in a VM i sometimes use as a testing environment. i like many others couldn't use it 'as is' and installed 'StartIsBack' to make the UI useable.

the argument that the PC market (KB & mouse) is declining is a valid reason for MS to adapt to the changing environment. what i have an issue with is being forced to adopt the new UI so MS can leverage their existing user-base to snag chunks in the mobile market. MS fucked up, they missed the boat with phones and tablets. so why is MS forcing us to work for them? i'd be happy to work with win8 as my main PC OS if MS compensated me, even then i'd have the stipulation they must accept my feedback on UI improvement. instead you must pay for the privilege while MS ignores any feedback.

stevel114 said:
Just remembered this, someone send this to Brian. Might help him:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dlZgcAacIxU
A 3 year walks you thru Windows 8.
Click to expand...

that's pretty funny, shame the market for a desktop OS doesn't wholly consist of 3yrs...

i think the original 'Windows 8: The Animated Evaluation' conclusion was fairly spot-on. asking for a 'recall' might be slightly excessive tho.
the author raised valid concerns regarding the UI, the convention of the 'Start' button shouldn't have been tossed aside after almost 20yrs (at least not for the desktop).
personally i didn't have as many issues as the author tho i wasn't using a lappy and i gave it more than 30mins to try-out.

frankly, 'metro' and it's inflexible and simplistic 'apps' have no place on a desktop PC thus should be a optional extra. the 'your holding wrong' argument is a little retarded imho. jumping thru hoops with mods and 3rd party programs to get OS to a decent working state when is should be familiar and easy to use 'out of the box' is silly.

the $15/$40 upgrade price is temping tho i'd only pay that if MS patched it so 'metro' could go bye-bye & start button returned. at full price (for desktop PC), no way in hell they're getting my cash. hope MS learns that different computing devices deserve different UIs when win9 rolls out.
 
Brent_Justice said:
...I sat down, and for the longest time, even I couldn't figure out how to close Metro apps. It took googling it, to find out you had to pull from the top of the app down, to close Metro apps. It took me an entire day to figure that one thing out.....
Click to expand...

I understand where you are coming from, but sometimes we need to let go of the familiar. You do have the option to close modern UI apps, but they are designed to be managed by the OS. This is the same functionality in iOS and Android. Say what you want, but the desktop interface is still there. Microsoft went wrong when they didn't offer the user to select a mode when setting up the computer. For example: "Boot to Desktop" or "Boot to Start Screen". Maybe they could add a couple of tabs for the charms and context menus... I'm sure these things are being considered and may be implemented in the next update ("Blue). Just my 2 cents. My only major complaint is the lack of "start search" without taking up the whole screen. This can easily be fixed with a 3rd party app at the moment.
 
aphasia said:
....frankly, 'metro' and it's inflexible and simplistic 'apps' have no place on a desktop PC thus should be a optional extra. the 'your holding wrong' argument is a little retarded imho. jumping thru hoops with mods and 3rd party programs to get OS to a decent working state when is should be familiar and easy to use 'out of the box' is silly....
Click to expand...

+100
 
Runningflame570 said:
Is it just me or do people come out of the woodwork to defend to the death Microsoft's screw-ups every time they release a half-baked version of Windows?

Windows NT: "If you reboot it every day to get back your memory, the new management features are nice."

Windows ME: "See, it's only unstable if you actually try to do anything on it."

Windows Vista: "Oh if you run it on a computer with three times as much RAM, processor, and storage as it calls for it's actually not dog slow."

Windows 8: "Why don't people try it for a year before they criticize? I did and I can sort of find my way around now."

If the answer is a touchscreen UI on desktop PCs then the question is stupid. It didn't work with Gnome 3, it doesn't work with Windows 8, and it wouldn't work with iOS if Apple was dumb enough to actually force that UI on the desktop.

The fact that Microsoft isn't losing desktop marketshare hand over fist at this point just goes to show that they still maintain a monopoly on the desktop.
Click to expand...

LOL

So much truth it hurts.
 
DemoN said:
I understand where you are coming from, but sometimes we need to let go of the familiar. You do have the option to close modern UI apps, but they are designed to be managed by the OS. This is the same functionality in iOS and Android. Say what you want, but the desktop interface is still there. Microsoft went wrong when they didn't offer the user to select a mode when setting up the computer. For example: "Boot to Desktop" or "Boot to Start Screen". Maybe they could add a couple of tabs for the charms and context menus... I'm sure these things are being considered and may be implemented in the next update ("Blue). Just my 2 cents. My only major complaint is the lack of "start search" without taking up the whole screen. This can easily be fixed with a 3rd party app at the moment.
Click to expand...

The problem with it, was that I tried every alternate method that I'm use to under every other previous version of Windows, to close Metro apps. It all failed. Just as this guy explains, the continuity isn't there. Nothing at all worked. You are forced to do it only one single way, and you have to know specifically what that way is. It also brings up his point about Control, I should be able to control the OS, not have it control me. I should be managing my apps.

This isn't a Tablet, or Android, this is on a Desktop computer. IT is different. It needs to act different. There should have been 2 versions of Windows 8. Windows 8 for Tablets/Cell Phones. Windows 8 for Desktop PCs, using the good ole Desktop UI.
 
heatlesssun said:
Why not just whatever kind of software one wants to use depending on the need and the situation? It's not an either or scenario.
Click to expand...

Because to use Windows 8 imposes an extra burden for those who see computers as appliances. At least with Vista I was able to point to better security, what can I point less technical or less interested people I know to in Windows 8 to convince them?

If you can't elaborate upon a single reason then you're going to have a tough time and desktop sales around the launch of Windows 8 suggest that is what is happening.

heatlesssun said:
If one only wants to use Windows with a keyboard and mouse then Windows 7 is still viable.
Click to expand...

The whole argument should be about Windows 8 on the desktop as Windows is far from widely used elsewhere and I don't see that changing much anytime soon.
 
Runningflame570 said:
It is undoubtedly true though that Unity/Gnome 3 in many ways represent a step back for Linux, but with the exception of Gnome 3 all DEs/WMs on popular Linux distros have far better discoverability than Windows 8.
Click to expand...

The difference is that GNU/Linux has no native GUI.
If one does not like Gnome 3 or Unity, then one can switch to XFCE, KDE, and whole slew of others at their choosing, with relative ease and no $$$ attached.

Windows 8 is locked with the Modern UI, and while I stated that Start8 is a necessity at this point and is only $5, it's still a pain that Microsoft couldn't just offer this solution for free as an option to desktop and laptop users.
 
heatlesssun said:
Windows 8 is nearly 100% hardware and software compatible with Windows 7. What you say might be true but probably only in the most basic scenarios.
Click to expand...

He never even mentioned the hardware or software compatibility.
Once again, why do you keep bringing this up??? :confused:
 
Runningflame570 said:
There is very little need to hit the CLI on Linux these days or for the last several years though. Graphical tools exist for most non-enterprise purposes and the most commonly used/important ones have been well-refined for years. I'd not like to sidetrack this too much, but what specific tasks do you see that a home user would be interested in that can't be done or done relatively easily via a GUI on Linux?
Click to expand...

For the average user maybe.
There are still many of us who need CLI (and don't have a GUI option) for many things.

How do you think I am folding with my GTX480 on Linux right now. ;)
 
heatlesssun said:
If one only wants to use Windows with a keyboard and mouse then Windows 7 is still viable.
Click to expand...

It's so lame that Microsoft would build a "hybrid" OS that was clearly designed with tablets in mind over the desktop.
Start8 is a great solution for this, but again, it's third party.

Microsoft couldn't have included that option themselves? Weak.
Why couldn't Microsoft have just built a "tablet mode" and "keyboard/mouse" mode?

If they had, I would have had a lot more respect for this OS, because then it would have been a true hybrid OS, not a "hybrid-meant-for-tablet" OS.
 
That vid was one marvelous real world review. Absolutely spot on, dead to nuts, last nail in the coffin true. If microsoft is listening, maybe 9 will be something worth looking at. I'd already decided when I got (and love) windows 7, that 8 was going to be a vista/millenium experience, if patterns bore out. And they did. 8 is, for lack of a better word, icky. Now I don't use a tablet or phone, just a high end gaming setup with internet connection, so maybe 8 is fine on the first two. Microsoft has gotten away with mediocrity on more than one occasion. Soon it may be that Linix really does look better for gaming, and lots of folk will close the windows.
 
Red Falcon said:
The difference is that GNU/Linux has no native GUI.
If one does not like Gnome 3 or Unity, then one can switch to XFCE, KDE, and whole slew of others at their choosing, with relative ease and no $$$ attached.

Windows 8 is locked with the Modern UI, and while I stated that Start8 is a necessity at this point and is only $5, it's still a pain that Microsoft couldn't just offer this solution for free as an option to desktop and laptop users.
Click to expand...

This has been a disadvantage of Windows for ages, the flipside is that the alternatives on Linux aren't always well supported (FVWM-Crystal) but the top 3 (KDE, Unity, XFCE, LMDE) are at least.

My thinking is that Microsoft underestimated how much having a familiar interface benefits them, particularly in the enterprise market. They may have been thinking that the risk of continuing to being a non-factor in tablets and on phones made the risk of trying to create a common GUI between them acceptable, but I'm not so sure there.

Red Falcon said:
For the average user maybe.
There are still many of us who need CLI (and don't have a GUI option) for many things.

How do you think I am folding with my GTX480 on Linux right now. ;)
Click to expand...

That is a fair point, but I was more curious from the perspective of a more casual user. I've been known to use Guake to write scripts for fun while surfing the web, some people are just weird. :p

I won't deny that things get more difficult the more niche your interest on Linux, although that has been improving some, we'll see if and how quickly that continues.
 
Well, you guys enjoy your whining, crying and name calling. I will go on enjoying my desktop, tablet and laptop, all with Windows 8 Professional and no start menu replacement. Oh, and I also have a HTC HD7 Windows Phone 7 unit which is quite solid and quick.

I personally find that I will enjoy what I know works and you guys just keep going on your trolling ways. (Not like [H] is going to stop that for the most part but then, eh, it is their forums.) For those who think Linux on the desktop is ever going to take of, yeah, right. :eek:
 
Runningflame570 said:
Because to use Windows 8 imposes an extra burden for those who see computers as appliances. At least with Vista I was able to point to better security, what can I point less technical or less interested people I know to in Windows 8 to convince them?

If you can't elaborate upon a single reason then you're going to have a tough time and desktop sales around the launch of Windows 8 suggest that is what is happening.
Click to expand...

Faster booting, 1.5 lbs and lighter devices hitting 10 hours of battery life. The ability to web surf with a touch screen just like an iPad or Android tablet. Runs all of the same productivity applications as Windows 7 on the desktop. I know that a lot of you demo Windows 8 on a desktop people and get a lot of negative reaction. Most people I show Windows 8 to on a tablet seem to have a pretty positive reaction to it from demos I've done.

Runningflame570 said:
The whole argument should be about Windows 8 on the desktop as Windows is far from widely used elsewhere and I don't see that changing much anytime soon.
Click to expand...

But it can't be just about the desktop anymore. Long before Windows 8 came out even the mighty Windows 7 was slowing down and getting more and more competition from mobile devices. If the desktop were the still focus of end user computing Windows 8 would not be the product that it is.
 
Red Falcon said:
It's so lame that Microsoft would build a "hybrid" OS that was clearly designed with tablets in mind over the desktop.
Start8 is a great solution for this, but again, it's third party.

Microsoft couldn't have included that option themselves? Weak.
Why couldn't Microsoft have just built a "tablet mode" and "keyboard/mouse" mode?

If they had, I would have had a lot more respect for this OS, because then it would have been a true hybrid OS, not a "hybrid-meant-for-tablet" OS.
Click to expand...

I've yet to see anything on tablet OS that supports a CableCard tuner like I have running on my dual 1920x1200 24" Windows 8 desktop. Or support multiple desktops with multiple monitors which I do with Dexpot. Or run Visual Studio natively. Or work with Steam and Origin and multiple GPUs.
 
heatlesssun said:
Faster booting, 1.5 lbs and lighter devices hitting 10 hours of battery life. The ability to web surf with a touch screen just like an iPad or Android tablet. Runs all of the same productivity applications as Windows 7 on the desktop. I know that a lot of you demo Windows 8 on a desktop people and get a lot of negative reaction. Most people I show Windows 8 to on a tablet seem to have a pretty positive reaction to it from demos I've done.

But it can't be just about the desktop anymore. Long before Windows 8 came out even the mighty Windows 7 was slowing down and getting more and more competition from mobile devices. If the desktop were the still focus of end user computing Windows 8 would not be the product that it is.
Click to expand...

How many people care about surfing the web on their desktop? We're talking about a replacement for Windows 7, not a new device category entirely.

Do you really see Windows 8 changing the tablet equation much? Windows remains all but dead on phones and tablets while a work in progress are already served by incumbents. Microsoft has rarely succeeded when they attempt to enter into established markets and I don't see why tablets would be any different.
 
ManofGod said:
Well, you guys enjoy your whining, crying and name calling. I will go on enjoying my desktop, tablet and laptop, all with Windows 8 Professional and no start menu replacement. Oh, and I also have a HTC HD7 Windows Phone 7 unit which is quite solid and quick.

I personally find that I will enjoy what I know works and you guys just keep going on your trolling ways. (Not like [H] is going to stop that for the most part but then, eh, it is their forums.) For those who think Linux on the desktop is ever going to take of, yeah, right. :eek:
Click to expand...

These kids now days. Anyone who disagrees with our opinion is a troll amright?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top