School Can Force Teenagers To Wear RFID

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A U.S. District Court judge ruled that schools can force school kids to wear RFID tags while in school.

U.S. District Judge Orlando Garcia said the San Antonio Northside School District had the right to expel sophomore Andrea Hernandez, 15, from a magnet school at Jay High School, because she refused to wear the device, which is required of all students. The judge refused the student's request to block the district from removing her from the school while the case works its way through the federal courts.
 
Going to the bathroom, are we?

big-brother-1984-patriot-act.jpg
 
I just put RFID in my house, cars and on things people would want to take from me.

Its pretty damn cool what you can do with active RFID but I don't see the point of RFID in schools unless you really don't trust that a child used the bathroom when they had a hall pass.
 
Land of the free....woooo......
Uhhhhhhh...

Minors have never had full freedoms of an adult, and the school can absolutely tell the kids what they can wear AT school DURING school.

I had to wear a uniform, pressed white buttoned long sleve shirt, blue slacks, and polished black shoes. If my hair was too long it had to be cut. No jewlery. They even had limitations on how girls were allowed to wear their hair.

Its school for kids, not a place where they need to "express themselves" or worried about being tracked, so little missy needs to get her entitled foot out of her ass, obey the rules, and follow the curriculum like everyone else.
 
Its pretty damn cool what you can do with active RFID but I don't see the point of RFID in schools unless you really don't trust that a child used the bathroom when they had a hall pass.
1) There are even greater security concerns at schools now, following the shootings we've had these past years, and while not foolproof its certainly a layer of security.
2) There is a long-time problem especially in ghetto schools of simple attendance, and this is much faster and more reliable than a roll call at the start of every class.
3) And its not about using the bathroom, its about busting kids for sneaking out when they get a chance and buying/selling/smoking weed behind the school somewhere.

RFID tracking just makes sense.
 
Just another way of easing people into willingly giving up more of their precious little freedom.
Want to send a message? Pull your kids out and give them a REAL education...at home! You'll know where they are, what they're up to, and exactly what they're learning, no RFID required. They'll learn as much if not more in less time as well.
 
Just another way of easing people into willingly giving up more of their precious little freedom.
Want to send a message? Pull your kids out and give them a REAL education...at home! You'll know where they are, what they're up to, and exactly what they're learning, no RFID required. They'll learn as much if not more in less time as well.

The only problem is they will not learn social skills.
 
I just put RFID in my house, cars and on things people would want to take from me.

Awesome. Now you know where all your shit is.

And so does anyone else who is determined to get them.
 
Just another way of easing people into willingly giving up more of their precious little freedom.
Want to send a message? Pull your kids out and give them a REAL education...at home! You'll know where they are, what they're up to, and exactly what they're learning, no RFID required. They'll learn as much if not more in less time as well.

What? Parents teaching? Preposterous. Children must only be taught in state institutions by unionized political activists who will walk out of work the minute their bargaining rights are touched.
 
Uhhhhhhh...

Minors have never had full freedoms of an adult, and the school can absolutely tell the kids what they can wear AT school DURING school.

I had to wear a uniform, pressed white buttoned long sleve shirt, blue slacks, and polished black shoes. If my hair was too long it had to be cut. No jewlery. They even had limitations on how girls were allowed to wear their hair.

Its school for kids, not a place where they need to "express themselves" or worried about being tracked, so little missy needs to get her entitled foot out of her ass, obey the rules, and follow the curriculum like everyone else.

Haha, school isn't worth that.
Highschool doesn't get you a job. This isn't work experience.
Your school sounds like ass.

My mate had long greasy hair in high school got a tertiary entrance ranking of 60 odd,
Still managed to find his way to being a lawyer.
I did great in a well respected high school and I have shit all credentials.

You: "I got a Rank of 98!"
Life: "...and?"
You've just been schooled.
 
The Yahoo article's title is "Texas school can force teenagers to wear locator chip: judge", but in the actual ruling (pdf) the judge states that wearing the ID badge with the chip removed is a valid option. How can you reach a subject line of "Texas school can force" when the judge is specifically saying there's a way to opt out (to be specific, the option of wearing the badge with no rfid chip)? Just because you refuse the option doesn't mean you're being forced.

I think Slate's article on the ruling is a bit less misleading.

One of the rumors about this case is that part of the deal of the school was that if they accepted the ID without the chip, that the student must publicly support the RFID policy. I have been unable to find any actual source for this aspect of the "deal" even within the court documents. What is clear though, is that the father believes that wearing a badge without a chip constitutes supporting the policy, the very idea of which the judge addresses in his ruling.
 
Yeah, it's important that you teach today's kids to be the good obedient citizen of tomorrow. Can't have those Occupy Wallstreet punks affect the bottom line of Good Corporate Murrica.

I can't decide whether it's stupidity or genuine "goodwill" gone horribly wrong as usual. And you wonder why the world hates your country, lol.
 
I honestly don't see what's wrong with RFID in schools. Everybody gets this idea of some government facility that pulls up a 3d map of a school and watches every action the kid is taking - when in actuality the RFID is used because public schools are funding based off of head count. Believe it or not but teachers seems to have a very hard time taking attendance when, mostly in secondary schools, the students may be seeing a counselor or in another room but still technically on campus.

Then there is after school activities - if a kid stays after school the district is still responsible for that child so know whether they have left the campus or not can be crucial in locating a child. It's not like wearing the badge exposes any of their information to anyone - it can't be exploited to gain any information about the student. And contrary to the main argument in this thread it isn't monitoring when and how long students go to the bathroom.
 
Uhhhhhhh...

Minors have never had full freedoms of an adult, and the school can absolutely tell the kids what they can wear AT school DURING school.

I had to wear a uniform, pressed white buttoned long sleve shirt, blue slacks, and polished black shoes. If my hair was too long it had to be cut. No jewlery. They even had limitations on how girls were allowed to wear their hair.

Its school for kids, not a place where they need to "express themselves" or worried about being tracked, so little missy needs to get her entitled foot out of her ass, obey the rules, and follow the curriculum like everyone else.

training kids from an early age that they must be subservient to those in power is very important in the new america. Obey!
 
Uhhhhhhh...

Minors have never had full freedoms of an adult, and the school can absolutely tell the kids what they can wear AT school DURING school.

I had to wear a uniform, pressed white buttoned long sleve shirt, blue slacks, and polished black shoes. If my hair was too long it had to be cut. No jewlery. They even had limitations on how girls were allowed to wear their hair.

Its school for kids, not a place where they need to "express themselves" or worried about being tracked, so little missy needs to get her entitled foot out of her ass, obey the rules, and follow the curriculum like everyone else.

On what fucking planet is a uniform anything like a fucking electronic tracking device?
 
In factories with punch clocks, someone will duck out early and have their buddy punch their card for them.

I would just give my tag to a classmate and its defeated.

I mean if a kid was senile or something and prone to wandering off, this might help. But otherwise pervs will ditch it. Or worse, use it to mislead whether that the kid is missing. A kid will be able to defeat it himself.

About the only plus is for automating attendance because I guess teachers are too put out.
 
This was a specialized school for Science and Engineer, kind of like a step above your normal public school, the fact that they used RFID to allow you entry, check out books, etc, sounds like they're simply working like any tech company would. I don't see the problem with it as I have never seen any evidence that they actively track you other than using it as a sign in purpose to get into school.
 
The only problem is they will not learn social skills.

That is as uninformed a statement as I've ever heard. You obviously have never home-schooled, or been home-schooled. If you WERE either of these, and this is what happened, it was done wrong.

On topic..... I've read the arguments in this thread, and others before I still see no good reason RFID tags are needed.
 
Hopefully students don't figure out that aluminum foil can, well, foil plans on using these things.

IDs in schools are problematic regardless of implementation. My freshman and sophomore years we were required to wear (freshman) and have on our person (sophomore) our IDs at all times. Want to guess what happens when students are forced to wear IDs all of the time, and the upperclassmen find out that they can get their junior peers in detention by stealing their IDs? I had mine stolen off of my person by one of the faculty's sons, and reported it as such to the vice principal. It ended up returned as 'having been found by him' a couple classes later. He suffered no consequences and was able to do it to others just the same, again without consequence. Often times things like this are purposefully taken by bullies because they can get otherwise good kids in trouble then feign ignorance by tossing the card.

I don't know, one of the main reasons I dislike RFID cards is that due to their very nature they are prone to abuse. Again, aluminum foil and they no longer work for one thing. But, because of the way the techology works all it takes is for someone to have a reader to pick them up and they can find out where students are, both on and off campus. It's one of the main security risks of the new RFID passports. Was it not but a couple years ago, here, that an article was posted about the guy driving through San Francisco and picking up passport information from RFID passports? I just don't see the new and added risks outweighing the benefits. But, then, I also have a supreme distrust and antipathy towards public schools so I fully admit to bias in my views.
 
1) There are even greater security concerns at schools now, following the shootings we've had these past years, and while not foolproof its certainly a layer of security.
2) There is a long-time problem especially in ghetto schools of simple attendance, and this is much faster and more reliable than a roll call at the start of every class.
3) And its not about using the bathroom, its about busting kids for sneaking out when they get a chance and buying/selling/smoking weed behind the school somewhere.

RFID tracking just makes sense.

How does RFID tracking decrease the current threats facing schools today?

I can see RFID aiding in class attendance, and such, but not really safty

Awesome. Now you know where all your shit is.

And so does anyone else who is determined to get them.

How hard is it to find. . . . a TV for example? I know where my TV is but if that TV starts moving, i'm sure to know about it, no matter where I am.
 
That is as uninformed a statement as I've ever heard. You obviously have never home-schooled, or been home-schooled. If you WERE either of these, and this is what happened, it was done wrong.

On topic..... I've read the arguments in this thread, and others before I still see no good reason RFID tags are needed.

You learn social skills faster in social situations. That is not to say people who are home schooled can't catch up, but they do need to catch up.
 
How hard is it to find. . . . a TV for example? I know where my TV is but if that TV starts moving, i'm sure to know about it, no matter where I am.

So you carry around, I'm guessing, an app that tracks the location of all your RFID-tagged shit? Apart from being paranoid, what good does that do you if you're at work and your TV has already left your apartment? What has that done to prevent the theft? And what happens when the crook gets it in their truck or building and then rips out the RFID tag and flushes it?

It's like the people who thought OnStar was going to prevent their car from ever getting jacked. Well, guess what the criminals did? Figured out how to disable in-car security systems. The more we keep trying to fool ourselves into thinking that a tracker will protect us, the easier it is for the government and other entities that we don't distrust enough to keep tabs on us.
 
I don't know, one of the main reasons I dislike RFID cards is that due to their very nature they are prone to abuse. Again, aluminum foil and they no longer work for one thing. But, because of the way the techology works all it takes is for someone to have a reader to pick them up and they can find out where students are, both on and off campus. It's one of the main security risks of the new RFID passports. Was it not but a couple years ago, here, that an article was posted about the guy driving through San Francisco and picking up passport information from RFID passports? I just don't see the new and added risks outweighing the benefits. But, then, I also have a supreme distrust and antipathy towards public schools so I fully admit to bias in my views.

Good thing these schools aren't actually putting student data on the cards then, eh? It's an ID that connects to an entry in a DB. Someone would need access to the database for the cards info to actually mean anything.
 
You learn social skills faster in social situations. That is not to say people who are home schooled can't catch up, but they do need to catch up.

Not for my kids. They are home schooled, but they do a co-op where they study with other kids in a classroom environment for an entire day every 2 weeks. Also, as part of home schooling we do Tae-Kwon-Do 3 times a week which meets the PE requirement and it assisted us with funding. Plenty of kids in the classes. We also do special classes (like US history) that also assist in the the social aspects of things. I think they are just fine.
 
So you carry around, I'm guessing, an app that tracks the location of all your RFID-tagged shit? Apart from being paranoid, what good does that do you if you're at work and your TV has already left your apartment? What has that done to prevent the theft? And what happens when the crook gets it in their truck or building and then rips out the RFID tag and flushes it?

It's the typical techno-nerd thinking that any and all problems can be solved by throwing huge amounts of over-engineered technology at them - like guns with fingerprint sensors and such nonsense.

In a way, I feel good about the direction this is heading. These people encapsulate themselves from reality by staring at a computer screen and trusting their gadgets 100%, meaning determined people have an easier time social-engineering them.

Times have never been easier for hackers.
 
So you carry around, I'm guessing, an app that tracks the location of all your RFID-tagged shit? Apart from being paranoid, what good does that do you if you're at work and your TV has already left your apartment? What has that done to prevent the theft? And what happens when the crook gets it in their truck or building and then rips out the RFID tag and flushes it?

No, My long range reader is hooked up to my home automation system, which monitors tags.

Certian tags are monitored for movement (Alarms trigger when tag moves on stationary objects)

Tags that and in cars are used to turn on outside and inside lights if the car enters the readers range at night. Lights then turn off after certian time limits.

The home automation system has a Growl plugin that sends direct alerts to my cell phone if an event occurs. I can then look at my cameras to see what is going on.

Likewise if someone rings my doorbell I get an alert on my phone. I also monitor power and water usage.

Its more of a hobby than a security system, I got into home automation about two years ago and just added the RFID part.
 
training kids from an early age that they must be subservient to those in power is very important in the new america. Obey!

New? o_O

Ever hear of this thing called 'The Pledge of Alliegence'

"Swearing of the Pledge is accompanied by a salute. An early version of the salute, adopted in 1892, was known as the Bellamy salute. It started with the hand outstretched toward the flag, palm down, and ended with the palm up. Because of the similarity between the Bellamy salute and the Nazi salute, developed later, United States Congress instituted the hand-over-the-heart gesture as the salute to be rendered by civilians during the Pledge of Allegiance and the national anthem in the United States, instead of the Bellamy salute. Removal of the Bellamy salute occurred on December 22, 1942, when Congress amended the Flag Code language first passed into law on June 22, 1942"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pledge_of_Allegiance

OOoopsies!
 
Not for my kids. They are home schooled, but they do a co-op where they study with other kids in a classroom environment for an entire day every 2 weeks. Also, as part of home schooling we do Tae-Kwon-Do 3 times a week which meets the PE requirement and it assisted us with funding. Plenty of kids in the classes. We also do special classes (like US history) that also assist in the the social aspects of things. I think they are just fine.

They're missing out on the crowds, bullying and cliques.
 
I think you have to be careful how these are used but they could have valid uses ... note the quote from the Slate article on this referenced earlier:

Very recently, a parent of a special needs student was concerned that the child did not get on the bus after school, and the school staff was able to pull the sensor readings to determine when the student was on campus and when he left, thus reassuring the parent. On another occasion, a building was evacuated and campus administrators were able to quickly identify and locate students' badges that had been left in the building during the evacuation.

RFID could also be used to restrict access to areas like computer centers or labs so that only authorized students are present in them. I am surprised she has so many supporters here since her complaint against this wasn't privacy but that the RFID constituted the "Mark of the Beast" in Revelations and that it violated her religious freedom to wear the ID (this is why she refused to wear the badge, even after they offered her one without the RFID) ;)
 
Good thing these schools aren't actually putting student data on the cards then, eh? It's an ID that connects to an entry in a DB. Someone would need access to the database for the cards info to actually mean anything.

It was more of a general comment about RFIDs than just this situation. I thought that was clear by my mention of passports but I guess that was somehow lost. Again, I don't trust schools to not be stupid about what information they put on RFID cards, that includes colleges. I went to one college for instance that used SSNs for their student ID numbers and another that used a portion of the SSN for their ID numbers. I simply do not trust them, or in fact the vast majority of people on this planet, with personal information because it has been shown so frequently how companies and government institutions mismanage and abuse said personal information. Perhaps I'm unfairly harsh but given that I had to fight my own identity being stolen during my senior year of high school, by the police themselves no less, I've learned to be careful and proactive.
 
No, My long range reader is hooked up to my home automation system, which monitors tags.

Certian tags are monitored for movement (Alarms trigger when tag moves on stationary objects)

Tags that and in cars are used to turn on outside and inside lights if the car enters the readers range at night. Lights then turn off after certian time limits.

The home automation system has a Growl plugin that sends direct alerts to my cell phone if an event occurs. I can then look at my cameras to see what is going on.

Likewise if someone rings my doorbell I get an alert on my phone. I also monitor power and water usage.

Its more of a hobby than a security system, I got into home automation about two years ago and just added the RFID part.

Well then...I'd say you're one of the rare people for whom RFID tags can actually be useful. :eek:

Although, I'm guessing we can agree that 99.8% of the rest of people would not have a system for which RFID would be such a useful addition. :D
 
Well then...I'd say you're one of the rare people for whom RFID tags can actually be useful. :eek:

Although, I'm guessing we can agree that 99.8% of the rest of people would not have a system for which RFID would be such a useful addition. :D

I could be useful for more if active RFID were not so darn expensive. I enjoy seeing what can be done in home automation, just some cool stuff I think.

Your average Active RFID tag has a battery that will last around 4 years, which is good for schools, but I just don't see many benifits to using RFID in schools.

Its the school staff's job to make sure kids are where they should be, take that responsibility away and give it to one person on a computer monitor and what next?

I just don't see the benifits, security or otherwise. I would rather have an armed cop in a school (Which we did when i was in middle and high school) than RFID tags that could tell a shooter where the most kids are
 
I honestly don't understand what the big deal is...

This is slightly different, but I've been to many University/College campuses where the school IDs were chipped. Entry to certain locations, labs, and access to resources was tracked using either the bar scanner and/or the chip on the card.

I also went to private high school which "forced" me to dress a certain way, with limitation on what I could do, when I could go places, and had full boarding on the premises, which also had it's own set of limitations.

I don't understand the hysteria that the use of RFID tags on badges, to track students while on campnus, is coming from. College level institutions have been doing it for years(or using similar methods)... and most everyone, after getting used to the change in their schools, prefer the badges/chips.

The judge ruling on this, also states that the student in question, can use the badge by itself without the RFID chip in it, and only use the barcode scanner.

I must say, I'm pretty dumbfounded by some of the comments on the article itself, people calling for revolutions, comparing it to laws and regulations Hitler introduced, etc...
 
I just don't see the benifits, security or otherwise. I would rather have an armed cop in a school (Which we did when i was in middle and high school) than RFID tags that could tell a shooter where the most kids are

Wha...buh...muh...you can't have a gun in school! Somehow, magically, when an armed cop walks off the street(where the gun is not a threat to the public) and into a school, their gun becomes a supernatural killing entity that CANNOT BE ALLOWED!!! :eek::eek::eek:
 
I also went to private high school which "forced" me to dress a certain way, with limitation on what I could do, when I could go places, and had full boarding on the premises, which also had it's own set of limitations.

...

I must say, I'm pretty dumbfounded by some of the comments on the article itself, people calling for revolutions, comparing it to laws and regulations Hitler introduced, etc...

So you think people are stupid to compare electronic tracking devices to government tyranny...

...but you think it makes sense to compare electronic tracking devices to a dress code.

Uh...kay. :rolleyes:
 
Wha...buh...muh...you can't have a gun in school! Somehow, magically, when an armed cop walks off the street(where the gun is not a threat to the public) and into a school, their gun becomes a supernatural killing entity that CANNOT BE ALLOWED!!! :eek::eek::eek:

Call me crazy but I don't recall seeing an officers gun jump out of the holster and walk around capping people.
 
So you think people are stupid to compare electronic tracking devices to government tyranny...

...but you think it makes sense to compare electronic tracking devices to a dress code.

Uh...kay. :rolleyes:

The uniform comment was in regards to an earlier post made in this thread.

See below:

Uhhhhhhh...

Minors have never had full freedoms of an adult, and the school can absolutely tell the kids what they can wear AT school DURING school.

I had to wear a uniform, pressed white buttoned long sleve shirt, blue slacks, and polished black shoes. If my hair was too long it had to be cut. No jewlery. They even had limitations on how girls were allowed to wear their hair.
 
The uniform comment was in regards to an earlier post made in this thread.

See below:

Yeah...and I addressed the same comment with the same observation. How in the hell is being forced to wear uniquely-identifiable tracking devices in any way comparable to a dress code?
 
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