cs promod 1.09 beta is out !

Pro my ass. Mad cheap. Worse than 1.6, CSS, or CS:GO.

I was getting head shots though I CLEARLY would never get near their heads...I was getting killed with one shot from AK's that WEREN'T head shots...game is either cheap or just broken.
 
this tiny 200mb mod sounds very similar to cs 1.6, something that both CSS and CSGO always lacked
(http://www.hltv.org/news/8358-csp-gets-goldsrc-sound-spatialisation)
It plays pretty much the same as cs 1.6 with very crisp and "clean" graphics, next update is coming in just 4 days ! http://steamcommunity.com/groups/officialcsp#announcements/detail/1748785285689701784

about getting headshots without actually aiming at their heads, i take you have never considered factors like recoil and spread pattern ever before while shooting a gun in a FPS, the game is not broken nor cheap, it's just you doing it wrong http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GS5tRoVYFtg
 
SoFGR said:
about getting headshots without actually aiming at their heads, i take you have never considered factors like recoil and spread pattern ever before while shooting a gun in a FPS, the game is not broken nor cheap, it's just you doing it wrong http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GS5tRoVYFtg
Click to expand...

No dude. Home boy was 8 feet away. No spread. Straight abdomen shots. Blood on the wall right behind where I shot. Head shot. Bullshit.

AK shot me once. Body shot. I'm dead. Dude that shot me even chatted a "wtf".

I'm not a n00b. Shits broke. Sorry.
 
sounds like unreliable hitreg then, due to bad server and or/your own client netcode settings

cs 1.6 and CSS default rates are not optimal for accurate hitreg

csp has rate set to "20000" and cl_cmdrate / cl_updaterate to "100" by default

check your choke and packet loss first ( ~ net_graph 5 ) if it's too high during combat then maybe you should try a different server, also enable "predict attacks" and "predict deaths" from the options menu(http://cloud-2.steampowered.com/ugc/577849365892463690/89A1D3AE9623651E4832EBF3B1105B7FD8CC1156/), interpolation is pretty much essential for online play http://cspromod.com/community/threads/4504-Predicting-your-attacks
 
I just enjoy cs go better now at this point.. I can't stare at css or 1.6 graphics anymore
 
b110_sas_1.jpg


CSPromod BETA 1.10 New Models [CT: British S.A.S.].

:D
 
is this from the same team that did COD4 promod? That was the best competitive mod for COD, much better than PAM and DAMN MOD. Played in cevo for a couple years playing on promod, good stuff.
 
SoFGR said:
this tiny 200mb mod sounds very similar to cs 1.6, something that both CSS and CSGO always lacked
(http://www.hltv.org/news/8358-csp-gets-goldsrc-sound-spatialisation)
Click to expand...

Interesting. My favorite memories of playing the original CS on HL1 was that HL1 supported Aureal3D which did spatialization + materials and other reverb effects better than any sound engine I've heard to date (I think I still have that vortex 2 card somewhere). Was easy to track guys through walls and shoot them before they even knew I was there. I'll have to check this out tonight and see how it compares.
 
This is a waste of time, the problem with CS and so many other old favorite games is that the community keeps splitting up making the game weaker. This only adds one more such split, if you love CS you are doing it a death blow running this mod.
 
rudy said:
This is a waste of time, the problem with CS and so many other old favorite games is that the community keeps splitting up making the game weaker. This only adds one more such split, if you love CS you are doing it a death blow running this mod.
Click to expand...

To be fair this game is over 10 years old now. The thing that is splitting people the most is the refusal to update to the most recent version of this game. same thing happened with CS:S, and now CS:GO
 
css back in 2004 was a half-assed port of cs 1.6 to the source engine, they gave it away to everybody who bought HL2 retail. csgo is a console port of CSS.

This mod is essentially cs 1.6 with better graphics, css and cs go and even condition zero do NOT play like 1.6, that's the reason most 1.6 players refuse to "update"

naticus said:
is this from the same team that did COD4 promod? That was the best competitive mod for COD, much better than PAM and DAMN MOD. Played in cevo for a couple years playing on promod, good stuff.
Click to expand...

I think not http://wiki.cspromod.com/About


Silent.Sin said:
Interesting. My favorite memories of playing the original CS on HL1 was that HL1 supported Aureal3D which did spatialization + materials and other reverb effects better than any sound engine I've heard to date (I think I still have that vortex 2 card somewhere). Was easy to track guys through walls and shoot them before they even knew I was there. I'll have to check this out tonight and see how it compares.
Click to expand...


From a wallbanger to another : I think you will love it :D
 
Ya but tons of players in pretty much every game always say that same crap about it just doesnt play like the one before it. And they just keep splitting their community up till it dies. Thats why the big companies learn to do nasty things like just shut the master servers down. I believe that if history was changed and CSS was released then CS was released after it people would say the same crap about CS and keep going back to CSS.
 
rudy said:
Ya but tons of players in pretty much every game always say that same crap about it just doesnt play like the one before it. And they just keep splitting their community up till it dies. Thats why the big companies learn to do nasty things like just shut the master servers down. I believe that if history was changed and CSS was released then CS was released after it people would say the same crap about CS and keep going back to CSS.
Click to expand...

Thank you. CS:GO really does not play that much different from CS:S or CS 1.6, Console port? Seems to me like a PC port.. I'd say hitboxes may be a little different, and it's very much using the newest Source models including gun spray but people over exaggerate how much different it really is. I'd bet a ton of people haven't played it outside of the beta (Which even I admit I didn't like)
 
Bigbacon said:
can't CS just die?
Click to expand...

honestly...
i grew up playing cs, played in cal.
and this game needs to just end.

there will never be a cs2. just a new, crappier, game on a somewhat updated engine.

its almost 2013 and you cant ads in go? and its not because "thats how cs is bro".
its because valve can no longer make a quality game.

id rather play cod s&d versus counter strike.
 
csp plays MUCH different than cs go, give it a shot it's just 200megs

on another note ....

b110_phx_1.jpg


TERRORISTS WIN !

can't wait for sunday :D
 
xnikx said:
honestly...
i grew up playing cs, played in cal.
and this game needs to just end.

there will never be a cs2. just a new, crappier, game on a somewhat updated engine.

its almost 2013 and you cant ads in go? and its not because "thats how cs is bro".
its because valve can no longer make a quality game.

id rather play cod s&d versus counter strike.
Click to expand...

how can you deny that CS is fun
 
Bdonedge said:
Thank you. CS:GO really does not play that much different from CS:S or CS 1.6, Console port? Seems to me like a PC port.. I'd say hitboxes may be a little different, and it's very much using the newest Source models including gun spray but people over exaggerate how much different it really is. I'd bet a ton of people haven't played it outside of the beta (Which even I admit I didn't like)
Click to expand...
Go plays alot different then source. I played the beta from day 1 all the way through till release.
xnikx said:
honestly...
i grew up playing cs, played in cal.
and this game needs to just end.

there will never be a cs2. just a new, crappier, game on a somewhat updated engine.

its almost 2013 and you cant ads in go? and its not because "thats how cs is bro".
its because valve can no longer make a quality game.

id rather play cod s&d versus counter strike.
Click to expand...

I played CAL and CEVO to. The community doesnt want ADS. Thats what separates it from every other shooter out there. if you want ADS then go play call of duty with the kids. Counter Strike will always have the more skilled players as well as the competitive side that COD wont. How did you come to the conclusion that Valve cant make a quality game? As opposed to what? Call of duty?
 
I loved the concept of promod a few years ago :( . I played 1.09 and did a few scrims in it, it plays well and is great, but it doesn't look like it will have the backing like CS:GO has from valve and major eSport tournaments. It's too little too late, and I like the majority of the CS scene has already switched to CS:GO. I feel that this niche version of the game will simply fragment the community further, when progress is already being made to unite it.

I wish valve didn't fail so hard on CS:S. Imagine if CSP was what CS:S was, and CS:GO would be CSP v2 :D
I've been crouch hopping everywhere like mad in the CSP beta, man I've missed that movement!
 
German Muscle said:
Go plays alot different then source. I played the beta from day 1 all the way through till release.


I played CAL and CEVO to. The community doesnt want ADS. Thats what separates it from every other shooter out there. if you want ADS then go play call of duty with the kids. Counter Strike will always have the more skilled players as well as the competitive side that COD wont. How did you come to the conclusion that Valve cant make a quality game? As opposed to what? Call of duty?
Click to expand...

the community doesn't want ads because most the community cant run games that have ads.
and dont get me wrong, graphics do not make a game. the source engine still holds up rather nicely

ads is not what separates cs from other shooters, this just shows that valve refuses to get with the times. there are many other key features to the game that separate it. no regenerating health is my favorite part of cs, this is adds a huge element to the skill factor.
im not saying the game needs reflex sights and red dots, but at least add an iron sight and the ability to lean. how would this not be a great addition to cs?

but so many other games have added every element of cs into their game, and have honestly done better with it.

so you have to play cs to be a skilled player? there a many other fps that require much skill than cs.
and i said valve can no longer make a quality game, cs go is a failure. and who said i like call of duty?

i guess my point is, if your going to make a new game than make a new game.(ya i know cs go isnt cs2)
you cant rub shit on the same thing every couple years and call it gold.

@Bdonedge, cs was a fun, as i said i played cal and it was one of my favorite games. i bought cs go and played it for a week and havent touched it since.
its too outdated. why play cs when i can play bf3?
 
German Muscle said:
Go plays alot different then source. I played the beta from day 1 all the way through till release.


I played CAL and CEVO to. The community doesnt want ADS. Thats what separates it from every other shooter out there. if you want ADS then go play call of duty with the kids. Counter Strike will always have the more skilled players as well as the competitive side that COD wont. How did you come to the conclusion that Valve cant make a quality game? As opposed to what? Call of duty?
Click to expand...

the community doesn't want ads because most the community cant run games that have ads.
and dont get me wrong, graphics do not make a game. the source engine still holds up rather nicely

ads is not what separates cs from other shooters, this just shows that valve refuses to get with the times. there are many other key features to the game that separate it. no regenerating health is my favorite part of cs, this is adds a huge element to the skill factor.
im not saying the game needs reflex sights and red dots, but at least add an iron sight and the ability to lean. how would this not be a great addition to cs?

so you have to play cs to be a skilled player? there a many other fps that require much more skill than cs.
and i said valve can no longer make a quality game, cs go is a failure. and who said i like call of duty?

maybe not the best example, but look at halo. it didnt have ads but look at it now.
i guess my point is, if your going to make a new game than make a new game.(ya i know cs go isnt cs2)
you cant rub shit on the same thing every couple years and call it gold.

@Bdonedge, cs was a fun, as i said i played cal and it was one of my favorite games. i bought cs go and played it for a week and havent touched it since.
its too outdated. why play cs when i can play bf3?
 
xnikx said:
the community doesn't want ads because most the community cant run games that have ads.
and dont get me wrong, graphics do not make a game. the source engine still holds up rather nicely

ads is not what separates cs from other shooters, this just shows that valve refuses to get with the times. there are many other key features to the game that separate it. no regenerating health is my favorite part of cs, this is adds a huge element to the skill factor.
im not saying the game needs reflex sights and red dots, but at least add an iron sight and the ability to lean. how would this not be a great addition to cs?

but so many other games have added every element of cs into their game, and have honestly done better with it.

so you have to play cs to be a skilled player? there a many other fps that require much skill than cs.
and i said valve can no longer make a quality game, cs go is a failure. and who said i like call of duty?

i guess my point is, if your going to make a new game than make a new game.(ya i know cs go isnt cs2)
you cant rub shit on the same thing every couple years and call it gold.

@Bdonedge, cs was a fun, as i said i played cal and it was one of my favorite games. i bought cs go and played it for a week and havent touched it since.
its too outdated. why play cs when i can play bf3?
Click to expand...

The community doesnt want ADS. Its simple. Its Counter strike. Not Call of Duty or BF3. Putting ADS into CS would change the game alot. The people who play it DO NOT WANT IT. Not because they cant run a game that uses ADS LOL.

Graphics isnt what makes a game. Its the game mechanics and how it plays that makes the game. Thats kind why people still play the shit out of 1.6 and Source.

ADS is one of the many things that separates it from the rest. Just a FYI valve asked the community if we wanted ADS and literally everyone said no so it didnt go in CSGO.
Nobody wants ADS or leaning. Learn the play the game. Those are all things that adds into the much higher skill ceiling that is CS.

What current FPS out there requires more skill then a CS game? Your point doesnt stand. Why is it you say Valve cant make a quality game? Valve didnt really make CSGO in case you didnt know. You can look at Hidden Path Entertainment for all of CSGOs failures.

Thats cool, Go play BF3 and the CS players will play CS.
 
My friends recently fired up some CS at a mini lan party we had - (we are 30) lol

Source engine is nice and all but holy crap they messed up everything that has to do with aiming/accuracy/control/hit detection.

We played CS for years in college (2000-2005) played some source the last year of that. I don't know what they have done to it in the past 7 years, but it sucks.

I thought BF3's hit detection was bad... I'd take single shots at people, aimed square and true and have them turn around and wax.

Maybe I'm turning into an old coot - who knows.
 
collegeboy69us said:
My friends recently fired up some CS at a mini lan party we had - (we are 30) lol

Source engine is nice and all but holy crap they messed up everything that has to do with aiming/accuracy/control/hit detection.

We played CS for years in college (2000-2005) played some source the last year of that. I don't know what they have done to it in the past 7 years, but it sucks.

I thought BF3's hit detection was bad... I'd take single shots at people, aimed square and true and have them turn around and wax.

Maybe I'm turning into an old coot - who knows.
Click to expand...
You were prolly used to it on regular Source engine, They ported it to Orange Box engine and it was a disaster. Takes alot of getting used to and setting it up.
 
played some 1.10 with the devs, new player animations are AWESOME ! can't wait for the new gun models, love this mod so much !

just uninstalled cs 1.6 and hl1, nuff said :D
 
German Muscle said:
The community doesnt want ADS. Its simple. Its Counter strike. Not Call of Duty or BF3. Putting ADS into CS would change the game alot. The people who play it DO NOT WANT IT. Not because they cant run a game that uses ADS LOL.

Graphics isnt what makes a game. Its the game mechanics and how it plays that makes the game. Thats kind why people still play the shit out of 1.6 and Source.

ADS is one of the many things that separates it from the rest. Just a FYI valve asked the community if we wanted ADS and literally everyone said no so it didnt go in CSGO.
Nobody wants ADS or leaning. Learn the play the game. Those are all things that adds into the much higher skill ceiling that is CS.

What current FPS out there requires more skill then a CS game? Your point doesnt stand. Why is it you say Valve cant make a quality game? Valve didnt really make CSGO in case you didnt know. You can look at Hidden Path Entertainment for all of CSGOs failures.

Thats cool, Go play BF3 and the CS players will play CS.
Click to expand...

no need to get butt hurt. im giving my opinion. cs and css were great games, but cs go is a failure. simply because its the same shit, with new graphics, and worse game play.

is there even any NEW maps yet? besides the ones for the shit new modes that no one plays?

because you dont ads, like a badass, doesnt mean the game takes more skill.
if anything, it requires less skill because you dont have to ads. you simply hipfire the whole time, just like everyone else whos playing.

while in other games, you have people who ads and people who might equip a laser sight and just hip fire.

and FYI.. there was a good amount of people on the steam forums that wanted ads.
learn to play the game... lol bud, i could teach you a thing or two about cs.
just cause you play cs, your not a pro. calm yourself down.
you probably dont even know how to change your interp ratio in cs.

now are we talking new fps, or fps from any time?
go play tribes 2 arena and i guarantee you wont get a single kill.
its from 2001, no ads, so you may like it.

and i would honestly say bf3 requires more skill than cs. sniping people with a jet is a bit harder than shooting a gun with no ads ;)
 
WTF are ADs? (I assume this is an acronym and not actually advertisements)

Edit:

Aim Down Sight, got it. Why is that such a big deal? People are really asking for that shit?


I played CS Beta back when I was in middle school (I loved oilrig :D). Game started sucking a little after release.

CSS was cool for a few months, then I got bored of it.

Got CS:GO expecting something, but only played 2 or 3 rounds before uninstalling.
 
xnikx said:
no need to get butt hurt. im giving my opinion. cs and css were great games, but cs go is a failure. simply because its the same shit, with new graphics, and worse game play.

is there even any NEW maps yet? besides the ones for the shit new modes that no one plays?

because you dont ads, like a badass, doesnt mean the game takes more skill.
if anything, it requires less skill because you dont have to ads. you simply hipfire the whole time, just like everyone else whos playing.

while in other games, you have people who ads and people who might equip a laser sight and just hip fire.

and FYI.. there was a good amount of people on the steam forums that wanted ads.
learn to play the game... lol bud, i could teach you a thing or two about cs.
just cause you play cs, your not a pro. calm yourself down.
you probably dont even know how to change your interp ratio in cs.

now are we talking new fps, or fps from any time?
go play tribes 2 arena and i guarantee you wont get a single kill.
its from 2001, no ads, so you may like it.

and i would honestly say bf3 requires more skill than cs. sniping people with a jet is a bit harder than shooting a gun with no ads ;)
Click to expand...

So im the one whos butthurt and not you that came into a Counter Strike thread saying its all terrible and such and such games are way better, etc....

When has there ever been any new maps? Valve hardly ever makes maps for Counter Strike games. Thats what the community and the SDK is for. You must be used to all those CoD and BF3 DLCs that cost money.

I never said ADS was a reason that the game requires more skill. The rest of that is your opinion. lol.

Citing steam forums as a source of good information is hilarious. That forum consists of the kids who fit your avg COD player. Those same people who ask for perks and regenerative health in CS games. But going on that id say maybe 20% wanted ADS, the rest did not.

lol but, i would love for you to assemble a 5 man team and play against my team. Youd prolly whip my ass up and down the court wouldnt you? Have you ever played with me? No, really stupid of you to talk like that when you have no idea.

I said any current FPS, How could you get that wrong? I dont care about Quake from 1994 or any other old ass game that is hard to play simply because the visuals are horrible.

In closing. Will you sign my mousepad?
 
Most people call ADS iron sights, never saw it called ads this much before this thread. The thing is I dont think its ADS that is missing, people make a big deal out of that, its just an example of added realism which is what people want out of realistic shooters. Lots of things like destructible buildings, dogs that bite your nuts and so on have been brought into COD and BF to entice people to play the game. CS just like quake and many other games has become a victim of its own success. People are so ingrained in their ways they think any deviation is a bad or not needed thing. But they forget that CS itself was the COD of its day, it was not the amazing game play that got people playing and hooked on CS, it was all the noob stuff. Most of the popular maps back then cant even be played in competition due to balance issues.

CS pioneered the easy to play realistic shooter, it blew up then forgot what it was that made it popular and tried to stick to that rather than progress and keep bringing in the casual players to increase numbers. Now they are stuck, just like quake and so many games, paralyzed by their community that wont except anything but exactly CS1.6 to the T with upgraded graphics, but of course upgraded graphics must come at now resource expense lol, because some kid doesnt want to upgrade is pentium 2.
 
except CS is not easy to play, the skill ceiling is stratospheric.
 
socK said:
except CS is not easy to play, the skill ceiling is stratospheric.
Click to expand...

This is completely false CS is no harder to play than any other realistic shooter, the only difference is that a large competitive community sprung up around it. CS is and always was incredibly easy to play compared to the games it displaced such as quake. In the early days at least it had strafe jumping but then they removed that and the only skill that existed in CS was aim. And sure because that was the only skill people learned over time to become masters of manipulation of aim. But in the early days of the dot com boom this is why CS became popular, and is exactly the reason CS is faultering now. In fact it may even explain why people always say every new CS game has horrible hit reg, because aim was the only skill that really separated players they were so anally in tuned to every single split second of how the netcode reacted they burned it into their heads. Shit I remember lots of demos about how bad the hit reg of CS was, yet all these people say it was the best?

CS is the result of the dot com boom, and an overly skilled experienced gaming community in other games. New player gets AOL 56K, parents heard the future is about the INTERNET, they buy a brand new computer freom DELL by mail order, grabs some games. Comes in tries unreal, quake, tribes, half-life death match, gets slaughtered, this person needs something much slower, with simple weapons just like the ones he sees in real life or the movies to understand, none of this overly complicated rocket jumping, tau jumping, long jumping. They dont want to learn advanced movement, they cant handle the snap aim at extreme speeds with their intel integrated graphics and 56k. So they all latch on to CS and it blows up, in fact the success of CS really has very little to do with the game itself and way more to to with the dynamics of the time it was released. Reverse history in any way and CS would have been nothing. As the years progress people go to love everything about CS, even bugs, then they cant understand why valve cannot get it right, even gooseman cant figure it out. They just dont get it, because they dont get that the popularity of CS was not about CS at all, it was about psychology. And just the same the CS community does not even understand itself. Not that anyone should feel bad nearly all the great games have suffered the same fate, inability to adapt, few companies like blizzard seem to be able to tap into that psychology right. But if you let go of your bias and think about this and realize this is the reality of what happened not the rosey eyed view that CS was just so great you realize why CS should have been COD. But COD figured out how to best CS at its own game.

I should also add that you have a weird view of a skill ceiling. A high skill ceiling is one where a player has almost infinite possibility to become better, that does not exist in CS you drop me in a game with the best player in the world, and I can kill him, you drop me in a game with the best Quake 3 player in the world and he will go 3 maps without me fragging him once. This is why CS was a team game, because as people hit the ceiling of skill it becomes the team work that separates them. This is what the noobs liked about CS, a little camping could nail you a kill on the best player in the game with high powered weapons that could kill in 1 shot the the pinky toe with an AWP.
 
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As a long time player of CS one thing that I do know is that it is highly random. Strategy isn't rewarded nearly as much as 1v1 fps games or say TF2 or compared to DOTA/LoL.

Some days I remember playing better than some pros (played with them via esea or when I ringed for their team back when CGS was around) and it's the same way with any of the CS games.

The shooting is way too random in the CS games I actually feel like aim down sights rewards players for better placement as you're more accurate.

In the CS games you can be set up in a really good position and wait there and if someone pops out they have whats known as peekers advantage due to the lag based interp. Atleast with aim down sights in a competitive game firing from the hip is way less accurate.

If CS had aim down sights and you were highly penatalized for running and gunning then I'd say it would be way less random.

I completely agree with the poster before me too, you can drop me in the same match as with one of the best CS players in the world and I can kill him because CS is highly based off of luck. You can completely negate flashes by turning away from them in my opinion you should get flashed no manner what unless you can sprint away from the flash.
 
You are just pointing out that you cannot see past your bias.

quake live is a new game that did not even release till fatality was past his prime and it is painfully obvious that if you are not playing a 1v1 any number of factors could result in a kill. We are talking about pure skill not anecdotal from random matches. Regardless of any of that you fail to even offer any explanation as to you claim, you just believe it because you do.

If you put me in a 1v1 match with the best 5 quake live players in the world, not fatality, and played out a statistically significant number of matches through hundreds of frags, and then you repeated again with the best CS players in the world, simply put I would have a statistically significant higher number of kills / performance vs the best CS player than the best quake players. Like wise if you pitted these same 5 players against each other in both games you would see the same thing, the score difference / performance of the quake players would be higher in their win in quake than the score difference in CS.

This defines the skill ceiling. Not the actual skills people get to. And sometimes that is even different than the skill curve, but both the curve and ceiling in CS are lower than most other games. Because both of these were lower CS was able to become a more popular game, even the intellectual curve was lower, as it was simple, do what you see in the movies, no memorizing sci fi or fictional functions of weapons / movement.

In fact the skill ceiling is so high in many of the older games like quake, HL, tribes etc, I doubt anyone ever hit it. Alot of players who were very good in these games did not max out their aim capabilities because it was not necessary to compete at the highest level and still beat other players. But that is not the case in CS, I think alot of the CS pros, cant get any better, its not possible physically because their defining skill is mostly wrapped up in aim.
 
socK said:
I played against and beat fatality in a random QL CA game what does that mean
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/10565193/games/fatality.png

but forreal, you have no idea what you're talking about if you really think you'd stand a chance against a good team because "you might luck out."
Click to expand...

I've lucked out against many teams back in the CAL days. Luck plays a much larger role in CS than many people will admit to. The Deagle is one of the most random guns in the game, there were times when I one shot 4 people in a row long distance on Dust2 and got kicked for "hacking" and other times I could aim dead on their head and the gun would miss.

Not to mention you can have amazing aim and map knowledge and get killed randomly because some guy had an awp and you didn't.

If all of the guns in CS had 100% accuracy without any of the random crap the skill ceiling would be much higher.

You should be able to kill an awper across the map with a deagle as long as you aim directly at their head but this is not the case currently. Guns are too random
 
rudy said:
This is completely false CS is no harder to play than any other realistic shooter, the only difference is that a large competitive community sprung up around it. CS is and always was incredibly easy to play compared to the games it displaced such as quake. In the early days at least it had strafe jumping but then they removed that and the only skill that existed in CS was aim. And sure because that was the only skill people learned over time to become masters of manipulation of aim. But in the early days of the dot com boom this is why CS became popular, and is exactly the reason CS is faultering now. In fact it may even explain why people always say every new CS game has horrible hit reg, because aim was the only skill that really separated players they were so anally in tuned to every single split second of how the netcode reacted they burned it into their heads. Shit I remember lots of demos about how bad the hit reg of CS was, yet all these people say it was the best?

CS is the result of the dot com boom, and an overly skilled experienced gaming community in other games. New player gets AOL 56K, parents heard the future is about the INTERNET, they buy a brand new computer freom DELL by mail order, grabs some games. Comes in tries unreal, quake, tribes, half-life death match, gets slaughtered, this person needs something much slower, with simple weapons just like the ones he sees in real life or the movies to understand, none of this overly complicated rocket jumping, tau jumping, long jumping. They dont want to learn advanced movement, they cant handle the snap aim at extreme speeds with their intel integrated graphics and 56k. So they all latch on to CS and it blows up, in fact the success of CS really has very little to do with the game itself and way more to to with the dynamics of the time it was released. Reverse history in any way and CS would have been nothing. As the years progress people go to love everything about CS, even bugs, then they cant understand why valve cannot get it right, even gooseman cant figure it out. They just dont get it, because they dont get that the popularity of CS was not about CS at all, it was about psychology. And just the same the CS community does not even understand itself. Not that anyone should feel bad nearly all the great games have suffered the same fate, inability to adapt, few companies like blizzard seem to be able to tap into that psychology right. But if you let go of your bias and think about this and realize this is the reality of what happened not the rosey eyed view that CS was just so great you realize why CS should have been COD. But COD figured out how to best CS at its own game.

I should also add that you have a weird view of a skill ceiling. A high skill ceiling is one where a player has almost infinite possibility to become better, that does not exist in CS you drop me in a game with the best player in the world, and I can kill him, you drop me in a game with the best Quake 3 player in the world and he will go 3 maps without me fragging him once. This is why CS was a team game, because as people hit the ceiling of skill it becomes the team work that separates them. This is what the noobs liked about CS, a little camping could nail you a kill on the best player in the game with high powered weapons that could kill in 1 shot the the pinky toe with an AWP.
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rudy said:
You are just pointing out that you cannot see past your bias.

quake live is a new game that did not even release till fatality was past his prime and it is painfully obvious that if you are not playing a 1v1 any number of factors could result in a kill. We are talking about pure skill not anecdotal from random matches. Regardless of any of that you fail to even offer any explanation as to you claim, you just believe it because you do.

If you put me in a 1v1 match with the best 5 quake live players in the world, not fatality, and played out a statistically significant number of matches through hundreds of frags, and then you repeated again with the best CS players in the world, simply put I would have a statistically significant higher number of kills / performance vs the best CS player than the best quake players. Like wise if you pitted these same 5 players against each other in both games you would see the same thing, the score difference / performance of the quake players would be higher in their win in quake than the score difference in CS.

This defines the skill ceiling. Not the actual skills people get to. And sometimes that is even different than the skill curve, but both the curve and ceiling in CS are lower than most other games. Because both of these were lower CS was able to become a more popular game, even the intellectual curve was lower, as it was simple, do what you see in the movies, no memorizing sci fi or fictional functions of weapons / movement.

In fact the skill ceiling is so high in many of the older games like quake, HL, tribes etc, I doubt anyone ever hit it. Alot of players who were very good in these games did not max out their aim capabilities because it was not necessary to compete at the highest level and still beat other players. But that is not the case in CS, I think alot of the CS pros, cant get any better, its not possible physically because their defining skill is mostly wrapped up in aim.
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Actually CS is not hard at all to play and is one of the easiest games to get into. Thats one facet i love about it. Its easy to get into and stop playing on a whim. Dont have to worry about my ranks, Leveling up to unlock guns perks, or how many times i prestige when i play. Its just straight up shooting people in the face. CS does have a pretty damn high skill ceiling though. Counter Strike has bunny hopping or strafe jumping as you call it. It has flashboosting as well. Those are actually exploits, but the game does have it. CS isnt at all just about aim. Sure there is the AIM aspect and all of the sub-aspects of aim but the main thing is Sound. There is the whole economy aspect to it, map memory, knowing how to control the map, knowing how to retake sections of the map, playing smart, and more. Thats not even getting into the team aspect of it when your talking about strategies, teamcalls, knowing when and how to rotate maps properly. Rotating player spots on the fly, figuring out what the other team is doing with minimal information, etc. There is alot more to the game then aiming.

I will say this. I cant comment on Valves getting it but CSGO was developed by Hidden Path. The same developer who ruined CSS. Ive beta tested CSGO since day 1 and have provided tons of feedback. The part where they failed with CSGO is not anything you mentioned. Its mostly them not listening to a damn word the community says. Valve said initially "We dont have a release date because we are running a closed beta. Once the communities stops reporting bugs and tells us its ready then it will be released." They announced its release for August 21st. Id bet half the community said it wasnt ready. Even the tards on steam forums said it wasnt ready. They ignored and released it anyway. Im on the developer mailing list for CSGO as well. You can look through there and see about 250-300 bugs and suggestions that would greatly improve the game and they have literally not listened to a single thing. I do know they listened to about 5 people when making this game and thats about it. Thats why there was a Private CSGO forum on the steam forums. That was where the top pros communicated with Ido @ Valve. Thats who they listened to. Yet another reason why its failing.

High skill ceiling is just that, a high skill ceiling. It does not mean Infinite Skill ceiling. LOL The AWP is often coined a noob cannon, Because its a high powered sniper rifle. Its one hit kill is quick for a noob to go after to try and get kills and usually can against other noobs. Ill be the first to show you how to truly use the AWP and when doing so its prolly the hardest gun the master.

Nobody is arguing that quake didnt require more skill. Id like to see any game that is currently as active as CS that has a higher skill ceiling though.
 
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