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Whos buying a a W8 Tablet?
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heatlesssun
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That's with the keyboard at that price, the tablet only is still in stock for $650.
ManofGod
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I do not use it a ton but when I do, I love my Acer W500. 
I also installed the Windows 8 Pro upgrade at home on my desktop computer but I still need to tweak it and setup my Modern Start Screen.
I also installed the Windows 8 Pro upgrade at home on my desktop computer but I still need to tweak it and setup my Modern Start Screen.Just FYI The latest firmware update for Windows RT contained some pretty impressive performance increases. (For my Surface) All my apps open about 2-3 seconds quicker, the device reboots quicker as well. Multi-tasking has been improved and the dragging UI to click apps to the side while others run has been much improved. This also fixed a weird audio stuttering issue with Xbox music for me but it appears others still have the issue.
These updates were also applied to other RT devices and these are pretty impressive results from the first round of patches. I look forward to seeing where Microsoft can further improve Windows RT.
These updates were also applied to other RT devices and these are pretty impressive results from the first round of patches. I look forward to seeing where Microsoft can further improve Windows RT.
Managed to snatch up one of the last W700s from Amazon and typing on it right now. Very nice tablet.
It came with everything listed such as the tablet, the keyboard (which looks like aluminum in the pictures but it turned out to be plastic), and the stand. It also came with a burgundy case which wasn't listed so it was a surprise to me. The case is made out of pleather and allows you to adjust the tablet to various positions. Nice touch considering I was planning on getting some sort of case for it anyways - saved me a few bucks and it's designed from the ground up to fit the W700.
I just wish the keyboard was built better because putting some slight pressure on it you can hear some creaking noises. I'll probably replace it with an Apple keyboard or something.
Overall a satisfying purchase for me. Was kinda bummed I couldn't get the 700T but this was the next best thing and I saved $300. I can use that amount to buy a wacom intuous for when I really need pressure pen input.
Also checking on explorer now I noticed there are 32GB free out of 64GB. I might reformat it later to get rid of all the bloatware that came with it.
It came with everything listed such as the tablet, the keyboard (which looks like aluminum in the pictures but it turned out to be plastic), and the stand. It also came with a burgundy case which wasn't listed so it was a surprise to me. The case is made out of pleather and allows you to adjust the tablet to various positions. Nice touch considering I was planning on getting some sort of case for it anyways - saved me a few bucks and it's designed from the ground up to fit the W700.
I just wish the keyboard was built better because putting some slight pressure on it you can hear some creaking noises. I'll probably replace it with an Apple keyboard or something.
Overall a satisfying purchase for me. Was kinda bummed I couldn't get the 700T but this was the next best thing and I saved $300. I can use that amount to buy a wacom intuous for when I really need pressure pen input.
Also checking on explorer now I noticed there are 32GB free out of 64GB. I might reformat it later to get rid of all the bloatware that came with it.
I will definitely be buying a Windows Pro tablet. I tried the Surface and I love the design, but Windows RT is just too limited. Since they are waiting so long to release the Pro, I'm going to wait until next year and get a Haswell varient though. I think the power changes and better IGP will be a must have on a tablet device.
Personally, I think this is the reason they are waiting to release the Surface Pro:
http://www.anandtech.com/show/6248/haswell-at-idf-2012-10w-is-the-new-17w
"Early next year we'll see limited availability of 10W Ivy Bridge ULV parts. These parts will be deployed in some very specific products, likely in the convertible Ultrabook space, and they won't be widely available. Any customer looking to get a jump start on Haswell might work with Intel to adopt one of these."
The Surface in my household is my wife's and I am looking at a possible purchase of a Pro or V.2 with Haswell later in the year like yourself.
Steelgrave
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The reboots and apps opening are slightly quicker. The xbox music deal I can't tell as I can't get mine to play music anymore. It also still can't remember a wireless network that's not broadcasting it's SSID.
I even did a factory reset and reapplied the patches, same issues remain.
I hopped back on my Droid tablet and it was like I went back to something useful. Think I'm going to put winRT away until SP1 and take a look again.
BladeVenom
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Microsoft Surface RT may only achieve 60% of forecasted sales. http://www.digitimes.com/news/a20121112PD219.html
heatlesssun
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So it may not be that this is as bad a thing as the headline is suggesting. Surface RT is just one device, one that Microsoft isn't trying to sell tons of anyway and we have seen little of the platform that I think is going to be the sweet spot for this first generation of Windows 8/RT tablets and devices which are Clover Trail Atoms, and some of those devices are hitting in the same price range of Windows RT devices with the significant advantage of running a good number of Windows desktop programs.
Check Staples. Just picked one up @ the local store for $599. No keyboards in stock.
Personally, I think of the Surface as Microsoft's Nexus line, it's not a developer platform but the Nexus line was never exclusively about that anyway... The Surface doesn't have to be a blockbuster hit, the fact that it exists and sets the pace or serves as an example ends up being mutually beneficial to the other manufacturers.
There's a reason MS is only selling it direct and at their stores (not that numerous AFAIK), they could've easily pushed the thing to every major retail outlet (if Google can get the Nexus 7 out there with almost no retail experience, it couldn't possibly be a challenge for MS).
There's a reason MS is only selling it direct and at their stores (not that numerous AFAIK), they could've easily pushed the thing to every major retail outlet (if Google can get the Nexus 7 out there with almost no retail experience, it couldn't possibly be a challenge for MS).
heatlesssun
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Yeah, they got them back in stock last week and they are going for $600 still, sweet. I would have gotten the keyboard for mine from there by now as well but no stock like you said.
RX3
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I appreciate the in depth view. I like your description of a device you need and want. I feel the exact same way.
A full fledged PC/laptop in a tablet form factor.
circuitcity is selling the acer w510 on amazon. 64gb for $599 + shipping. says only 12 left.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B009P7JIZ2/ref=olp_product_details?ie=UTF8&me=&seller=#productPromotions
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B009P7JIZ2/ref=olp_product_details?ie=UTF8&me=&seller=#productPromotions
As an Amazon Associate, HardForum may earn from qualifying purchases.
I had no idea Acer had this out. I was going to hold out for the Vivotab TF810 from Asus but the price point is $200 more.
Not sure what to do now. Really ready to jump on any Windows 8 / Atom tablet.
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I believe the 32gb acer will be $499 or $549. I'm going to wait and see what black friday brings.
Are there anything planned in NExus 7 price range for Win8 RT tablets? Mother wants a tablet for XChristmas, and after I let her play with some different devices, she likes the Windows tiles easiest for her to use (and she is computer illiterate). So, something in range of $300, 7inches screen without bells and whistles running on RT would be best
heatlesssun
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Are there anything planned in NExus 7 price range for Win8 RT tablets? Mother wants a tablet for XChristmas, and after I let her play with some different devices, she likes the Windows tiles easiest for her to use (and she is computer illiterate). So, something in range of $300, 7inches screen without bells and whistles running on RT would be best
Definitely nothing this year like that is coming out.
Are there anything planned in NExus 7 price range for Win8 RT tablets? Mother wants a tablet for XChristmas, and after I let her play with some different devices, she likes the Windows tiles easiest for her to use (and she is computer illiterate). So, something in range of $300, 7inches screen without bells and whistles running on RT would be best
if you want to spend a little more you can get a refirb ipad 3 for $380.
Roughly 3x the performance with the i3 and the graphics performance should be even higher.
Take a look at my two threads in this mobile computing forum outlining the architectures and performance of AMD's Temash/Kabini and Intel's Clover Trail Atom SoCs. These guys aren't lying when they tell you it's the same netbook performance of old. If you stick to lightweight Metro applications it should do well, but if you stray and start popping open 5-6 flash websites and play a 1080p video, expect the Atom to beg for its life.
heatlesssun
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I have Windows 8 installed on an HP Slate 500 and an Asus Eee PC 1000H and I have the Ativ 500. The difference in real world performance of the Ativ the other two devices is like night and day. It's beyond obvious. Synthetic benchmarks are not telling the story here and in a place like this form where reviews of GPUs eschew synthetic benchmarks this point should be understood.
Ask other people that have actually used older Atoms with Windows 8 and have a Clover Trail device and most are going to tell you the same thing I believe.
It's optimized for Win8's ecosystem so it thrives in typical Metro usage. You can't compare an Atom D525 netbook chip to the new Clover Trail under the same circumstances when the firmware, drivers and OS support is nowhere near the same. I've been telling you this for months yet you keep blabbering on about the "feel" of it while ignoring WHY it performs better.
So let's finally get it straight so you can keep quiet and point to this thread (and my other one) when someone asks just how Clover Trail will perform.
- Under Win8, and Metro and MS applications specifically, the new Clover Trail chips should outperform the old netbook Atoms. Drivers and OS support mean a whole lot here. For example, Bulldozer is an absolute dog in the win7 ecosystem but it performs much better under Linux using AMD's GCC. That's the best analogy I can give you as to why you "feel" it performing better.
- As soon as you stray outside of Metro and use typical desktop x86 applications and non-MS software, you're looking at the same performance that the old netbook D525 Atom gave you but with a better GPU.
Heatless, stick to what you're good at. As soon as you stray and poke your head into hardware related matters it shows you've got a lot of reading to do.
Hagrid
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Your wrong! if you install win 8 on any machine, even a 8080, it will not only run, but be faster then any of them.(its magic!)
Why dont just people buy the tablet that is going to perform for what they want? Its all good!
Though they are getting to be just small laptops and are getting pointing devices and such, so tablets may fade to just reading and browsing really. Small laptops seems to be the trend.
I think people should buy the tablet/hybrid that is going to give them the performance they're looking for. What I don't like is heatless spreading FUD regarding its actual performance because he's got personal endeavors and his own (now battered) reputation at stake.
An Atom is still an Atom and it'll perform only slightly better in Metro than would the older netbook Atom. If you didn't like the old Atoms performance in your typical x86 applications then you aren't going to like the new one either and your best bet is buying Haswell, Ivy, or Kabini with a *maybe* on Temash.
An Atom is still an Atom and it'll perform only slightly better in Metro than would the older netbook Atom. If you didn't like the old Atoms performance in your typical x86 applications then you aren't going to like the new one either and your best bet is buying Haswell, Ivy, or Kabini with a *maybe* on Temash.
heatlesssun
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LOL! You don't even have this hardware and why you feel so compelled to talk about a device that you've not used and keep arguing with someone that has is odd, especially since what I am saying is easily verifiable from others that have this device and have compared it to older Atoms.
Even on the desktop with non-MS software (not sure why that would matter) with Photoshop and Chrome, the Ativ 500 performs much better than the older Atom devices I have. Mutltitasking is much smoother, working on the desktop at 1920x1200 is pleasant for web browsing, office and even 1080P video playback though it's not entirely silky smooth.
I never claimed it was a speed demon, the old Core i5 Series 7 Slate I have is much faster, but it is a bit heavier and it has a fan and generates noise and heat. The Ativ 500 is fanless, virtually no heat, that's something that these benchmarks aren't saying and that in combination with the long battery life is why a person might be interested in this device.
Hagrid
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For me battery life isnt very important since I am usually near an outlet all the time.
But sometimes it might be nice to have a long battery life, such as camping or sitting outside.
^^
Form factor should be obvious and as should the price. My point was regarding performance, which is something that can be tested rather than relying on your first hand and extremely biased opinion.
Ask yourself, who would a person rather believe? heatless biased personal claims or benchmarks when referring to a processor's performance?
Like I said, thankfully we don't determine how a product performs based on user reviews and that's what professional reviews and benchmarks are for. You're on [H]. Do you think a few Amazon testimonials from random strangers who know next-to-nothing about computing is going to compare to benchmarks and actual performance figures?
Get real.
People come here for knowledgeable advice and all you've done regarding the hardware aspect of Win8 convertibles is spread bullshit without anything of merit. If you want to be taken seriously start running benchmarks on the devices you own with screenshots of the CPU-Z and you might have something to contribute. But you won't so who cares?
heatlesssun
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You can't test real world performance solely with synthetic benchmarks. You never have addressed the point that what I have been saying about this device can be verified by others that have it. You can't call multiple people's opinion biased and not be biased yourself. And again, you don't have the hardware, you're not even in a position to be able to call anyone's experience biased here.
So then what do you think of Bulldozer based on NewEgg's reviews? That it's an incredibly good microarchitecture?
Somehow Amazon reviews are okay to judge performance by but not NewEgg's reviews? A sliver of your blatant hypocrisy pokes its head out again.
I'm all in favor of basing reviews by real world application over synthetic benchmarks, but the synthetic benchmarks do something the real world applications don't: let you take a peak at the underlying architectural and its improvements over similar architectures under specific conditions. That's how you judge things like cache latency, the IMC and any other part of the underlying microarchitecture.
They should never be taken as the sole determining factor of a processor's performance, though, especially when it's possible to couple those synthetic benchmarks with real world applications and software that the chip will be pitted against. But what you don't feel inclined to mention is that these too can be benchmarked. Render times in Photoshop CS6 can be run on both chips. 7-Zip, Winzip, Blender, flash-based web sites and CPU usage, can all be run and tested with scores taken down.
But you know what? They won't drastically change from what the underlying architecture tells us. Because if you know what you're talking about, you can deduce that the new Clover Trail Atoms will offer slightly better integer performance while maintaining the FPU's throughput of the old Netbook Atoms. The single core performance is better than a Tegra 3 (and only slightly better than the netbook D525) but when spread across 4 threads (multitasking) it's going to get hammered quickly. And what did that "real world" applications test tell us when the guy was multitasking? That the Atom was utilizing only 10% less CPU than the Tegra 3 with light multitasking. The same can be stretches for things like 7-Zip and Winzip, which should see a small increase due to slightly better integer performance but not anything drastic (maybe 10%?). The FPU workloads are going to look the same, like CPU heavy gaming (think Blizzard) or mutlimedia software and applications. How can somebody tell? By the ALU and FPU throughput synthetic benchmarks. They don't lie.
Now what can you do to pitch in here instead of pointing us to Amazon reviews? Any bits of wisdom for heatless?
Frankly I think you two just keep bickering with each other on all these threads rather pointlessly, you may not even be having the same argument. "Old Atoms" is a really broad/vague generalization.
People comparing an Ativ or any Win 8 device against an old netbook could be comparing it with anything from a first gen single core Atom with some of the most terribad graphic drivers ever (and 1GB of RAM + a 5400 rpm drive) to a later model dual core with a discrete NV GPU (and 2GB of RAM, etc.). That's a very large range of performance, add flash storage (as most tablets/convertibles do) and a bunch of Win 8 optimizations and you further muddle the comparison, though that's not anything you can't add to an old netbook.
I don't think anyone can deny that if you're doing something decidedly CPU-bound then Clover Trail is really no faster than any other Atom. It's not gonna encode a video or compile code any faster. Improved GPU/drivers might make the UI seem smoother and it might help with video/flash playback but that doesn't make it an inherently faster device. All the arguing about feel etc is pretty subjective to exactly what two devices/configurations you're comparing. My 4 year old (5? don't remember anymore) Aspire One feels very different in use after a half gig RAM upgrade and a crappy 40GB SSD, doesn't mean it's any faster at most tasks.
People comparing an Ativ or any Win 8 device against an old netbook could be comparing it with anything from a first gen single core Atom with some of the most terribad graphic drivers ever (and 1GB of RAM + a 5400 rpm drive) to a later model dual core with a discrete NV GPU (and 2GB of RAM, etc.). That's a very large range of performance, add flash storage (as most tablets/convertibles do) and a bunch of Win 8 optimizations and you further muddle the comparison, though that's not anything you can't add to an old netbook.
I don't think anyone can deny that if you're doing something decidedly CPU-bound then Clover Trail is really no faster than any other Atom. It's not gonna encode a video or compile code any faster. Improved GPU/drivers might make the UI seem smoother and it might help with video/flash playback but that doesn't make it an inherently faster device. All the arguing about feel etc is pretty subjective to exactly what two devices/configurations you're comparing. My 4 year old (5? don't remember anymore) Aspire One feels very different in use after a half gig RAM upgrade and a crappy 40GB SSD, doesn't mean it's any faster at most tasks.
wonderfield
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Yes, you can. The degree of relevance to typical user experiences is contingent on what is tested.