Necere, I really like the case design. Definitely more traditional than the vertical design, but still really good layout. I've gone through variations very similar to that. The dang PSU is always the issue. Always a challenge to locate it where you still have plenty of CPU overhead space and the air flow/thermal dynamics make sense. How far away are 450W pico power supplies?!?! Lol...
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NCASE M1: a crowdfunded Mini-ITX case (updates in first post)
- Thread starter wahaha360
- Start date
And that's the issue, isn't it? Having designed my own cases for various reasons, it's really easy to think, "If I make it just a little bit bigger here or there..." If you do that too much, you end up deviating from your original design goals. At some point you need to take it in the opposite direction if you want to keep it truly small. "Where can I save 1.5 cm?" is something I force myself to think. Never at a detriment to performance though. Sometimes saving a little space isn't worth it, other times it is. Finding that balance proves tricky.
Regarding the new design, I can see the benefits of the new layout. That said, is it, or even the previous version different enough from current cases on the market to justify the selling price? Everyone looks for value no matter how awesome a design is.
I love how you all are coming up with really awesome ideas for the itx market.
Been innovative with itx and I too came up with a few ideas. If you all really wanted a compact and yet efficient, do consider my idea.
I utilized the psu here( if only more of such psus were made and refined, it is slightly noisy with the current fan i think) http://www.fspgroupusa.com/fsp700801uk/p/815.html
That was awhile back, but nw that the mini gtx 670s are out, prolly be able to cut on the depth of the case even more, making it more cub-ish, a good depth would be 270-280 since the psu is 250mm, having 20-30mm for the cables to stick out is required.
Here's the design on sketchup
http://sketchup.google.com/3dwarehouse/details?mid=211e795f63548549148c2261631b2578
Sure you could implement it into your idea and make it vertical, with it i can fit a 240mm rad too now that the psu is vertical. so all 4 sides are used efficiently (1 for mb, 1 for gpu, 1 for rad(fans) and the last for psu.
Been innovative with itx and I too came up with a few ideas. If you all really wanted a compact and yet efficient, do consider my idea.
I utilized the psu here( if only more of such psus were made and refined, it is slightly noisy with the current fan i think) http://www.fspgroupusa.com/fsp700801uk/p/815.html
That was awhile back, but nw that the mini gtx 670s are out, prolly be able to cut on the depth of the case even more, making it more cub-ish, a good depth would be 270-280 since the psu is 250mm, having 20-30mm for the cables to stick out is required.
Here's the design on sketchup
http://sketchup.google.com/3dwarehouse/details?mid=211e795f63548549148c2261631b2578
Sure you could implement it into your idea and make it vertical, with it i can fit a 240mm rad too now that the psu is vertical. so all 4 sides are used efficiently (1 for mb, 1 for gpu, 1 for rad(fans) and the last for psu.
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OH and the space beside the mb is for the HDDs, the space behind e psu is for cabling( do consider that too cos many ppl forget abt cabling, tubings and fittings(if going wc). and all those require precision too for a good fit. Honestly in itx-es, one of the main problems lie with the cables so kudos to any psu or psu cable design person to come in and fix it, always a pain to try fix everything tgt in tight corners and spaces with pudgy fingers and hands.
Exactly. Extra drives or you could mount something like Arctic's big GPU heatsinks with a couple of 120mm fans of your choice on the bottom. Great for a quiet build.
More than you might think. Both size and aesthetics would be compromised using Lian Li's standard construction techniques, so we had to come up with different ways of doing things. But because these are non-standard, we don't really know what will work and how much will have to be changed/compromised without committing to paying some engineers to figure it out. There's just too many uncertainties with that design and we need to cut down on the number of possible problems, considering our lack of budget.
The vertical design could still be produced at some point - we haven't completely abandoned it, but we needed to scale back our ambitions a bit for a first go.
I think you have the dimensions confused - ATX power supplies are 150mm wide - very few are 150mm long. The standard lengths are 140, 160, 180mm. Many of Silverstone's power supplies are 140mm long, for example. The max PSU length in the SG07/SG08 is also 140mm, which is this case's closest competitor.
It's tempting to think that, isn't it? But bear in mind that mATX is also 3 inches deeper, which means moving or elimating the 3.5" drive and pushing the PSU forward. Pretty soon you've grown it 5L (30%) or more and you've basically got an SG09. You have to draw the line somewhere.
Coming up with something truly unique is a real challenge; components are all standard shapes and sizes and there's only so many ways to arrange them that works. When you're designing for end users, you have to take into consideration a wide variety of hardware and user needs - something you don't have to worry about doing a custom one-off design. You innovate where you can within those constraints.
Both cases have their unique features, as well as many things in common with other cases. Are they different enough to stand out and be desirable? To be worthy of a crowdfunding campaign? On that latter point, particularly for this second design, I'm not too sure about. It's not a bad design - three expansion slots and full-size cooler support are unprecedented in a case this size - and it's something Lian Li would do well to produce, but it's gotten away somewhat from the original intent of being an SG05 alternative.
Believe me, I have many designs incorporating 1U-sized power supplies. For custom designs, they can be great. For appealing to a broader market though it's really limiting. The space savings are very nice, but the noise, lack of variety, and limited power isn't.
Thanks for the feedback, everyone. Keep it coming.
Comparison with the SG05:
I could go smaller, but it means sacrifices:
Putting the PSU back over the motherboard forgoes big air coolers, but allows the use of 120mm rads in front, like the SG05, while cutting width by an inch or so.
What do you guys think?
Keep it a bit bigger for high-end hardware (3-slot 12" GPU, AIO liquid or high-end air CPU cooling, more HDDs)?
Or go for the SG05 compromise (2-slot 10.5" GPU, AIO liquid or low-end air CPU cooling)?
I could go smaller, but it means sacrifices:
- Narrower and you lose tall cooler support and rear 120mm fan mount
- Shorter and you lose third expansion slot/optional HDD mounting
- Shallower and you lose long (300mm) GPU support
Putting the PSU back over the motherboard forgoes big air coolers, but allows the use of 120mm rads in front, like the SG05, while cutting width by an inch or so.
What do you guys think?
Keep it a bit bigger for high-end hardware (3-slot 12" GPU, AIO liquid or high-end air CPU cooling, more HDDs)?
Or go for the SG05 compromise (2-slot 10.5" GPU, AIO liquid or low-end air CPU cooling)?
Basically I feel since its itx where space and heat is an issue, the aio coolers are more required(since cooling in tight spacing is required. With a huge hs, no air wld flow through = fail. With airflow, it prolly means u have smwhere u cn mount a rad at). Sure u can make removable 2.5 bays to mount when e rad is nt around. Huge hs and itx just don't go tgt, sorta deviating.
I guess to make it customizable to fit everyone's tastes u gotta have more options. Bt the 3rd slot is nt req when itx usually has 1 slot and when most pci cards at single slot, only rarely are gpus 3slotted. With smaller gpu dies nwadays, I say go for 10inch dual slot wld be fine for e market.
Do consider ur front io at e same side or panel where e mb is mounted, too far means more nests of wires or wires frm one panel to the other, just pure mess.
Anw tt psu I shown was pretty good at 700w in 1u form factor, and has e required connectors, just nice actually, just gotta trim on e length slightly. With power requirements dropping, soon 400-500w wld be fine even(less heat less load less noise)
I guess to make it customizable to fit everyone's tastes u gotta have more options. Bt the 3rd slot is nt req when itx usually has 1 slot and when most pci cards at single slot, only rarely are gpus 3slotted. With smaller gpu dies nwadays, I say go for 10inch dual slot wld be fine for e market.
Do consider ur front io at e same side or panel where e mb is mounted, too far means more nests of wires or wires frm one panel to the other, just pure mess.
Anw tt psu I shown was pretty good at 700w in 1u form factor, and has e required connectors, just nice actually, just gotta trim on e length slightly. With power requirements dropping, soon 400-500w wld be fine even(less heat less load less noise)
I just saw e new itx design after seeing ur replies to e rest, ooops.
Anw I saw a major flaw, tt being 2 fans tightly packed around e rear. For an itx case, tt only means u gotta have both in push config. If both is in pull, air wld be sucked out too quickly, if both are alternating(rear push, top pull), air wld nt circulate around e gpu area and natural convection is hindered. I guess tt only makes sense when u have a huge hsf.
Gotta think ahead and 'generalized'. Sure you cld accomodate tt small no. Of users who want 3 slots, or huge hsf, bt defeats e purpose of itx imo. Look at why e sg05 is a winner, simply cos it accomodates simple gaming setups tt e masses require. No fancy hotswap, gpu length is nt like 150mm or smth, 10inches is decent. 2slots which most gpus were at alr. At e direction u headed with 3 slots,huge hsf, it becomes bigger, and catering only to small grps when e main idea of itx is smaller is better. I agree tt e dvd slim is nt required tho. External dvdrws work for me nw. Probably msata might be a norm on itx boards(they shld be imo). And psu sizes get smaller with itx req lesser output. Everything only goes smaller frm here. If u want big, heck then itx is nt for you, go for at least m-atx or best eatx, tts rlly 'flexible' design.
No offense, just my 2 cents on itx. I always liked e idea of small and yet performing systems, which made me look to stuff like e afox low profile 7850 in a antec isk 310-150, the upcoming asus ux51/u500 with 650 m gpu. I'm glad e chips are all shrinking in sizes too.
Anw I saw a major flaw, tt being 2 fans tightly packed around e rear. For an itx case, tt only means u gotta have both in push config. If both is in pull, air wld be sucked out too quickly, if both are alternating(rear push, top pull), air wld nt circulate around e gpu area and natural convection is hindered. I guess tt only makes sense when u have a huge hsf.
Gotta think ahead and 'generalized'. Sure you cld accomodate tt small no. Of users who want 3 slots, or huge hsf, bt defeats e purpose of itx imo. Look at why e sg05 is a winner, simply cos it accomodates simple gaming setups tt e masses require. No fancy hotswap, gpu length is nt like 150mm or smth, 10inches is decent. 2slots which most gpus were at alr. At e direction u headed with 3 slots,huge hsf, it becomes bigger, and catering only to small grps when e main idea of itx is smaller is better. I agree tt e dvd slim is nt required tho. External dvdrws work for me nw. Probably msata might be a norm on itx boards(they shld be imo). And psu sizes get smaller with itx req lesser output. Everything only goes smaller frm here. If u want big, heck then itx is nt for you, go for at least m-atx or best eatx, tts rlly 'flexible' design.
No offense, just my 2 cents on itx. I always liked e idea of small and yet performing systems, which made me look to stuff like e afox low profile 7850 in a antec isk 310-150, the upcoming asus ux51/u500 with 650 m gpu. I'm glad e chips are all shrinking in sizes too.
I just poured over specs for about 200 cards currently listed on Newegg and came up with the following GPU lengths. Keep in mind was doing this is my head as I went and these are ranges most of the cards fall into. There are exceptions including: a lot of ASUS/HIS cards, cards with 3 fans, and cards with shrouds that extend beyond the end of the PCB. From what I saw the overwhelming majority of cards are 10.5" or less. With an eye towards the future cards are becoming shorter as power requirements drop.
Last Gen AMD/Nvidia <= 10.5"
Current AMD
7850 or lower 7xxx: < 9.5"
7870: <= 10.5"
7950, 7970: 10.5-12" Longest two series of cards I saw
Current Nvidia
GTX 660 or lower: < 10.5"
GTX 660Ti: <= 10.5"
GTX 670: <= 10"
GTX 680, 690: 10-11"
Personal ramblings bellow this line and you may or may not agree with me
I think the max PSU length of 140mm is fine. Silverstone has some modular PSUs that long in the 650w range which should be more than enough for a single card system.
We deleted the optical for space, do we really need to be able to fit more storage in the bottom? I would probably never use more than two 2.5" drives and if I need a lot of storage I'd use an external drive or a NAS.
On Concept 2 what if we went back to 2 pci slots BUT:
Shorten the case front to back with the 10.5" GPU length in mind and instead of deleting the bottom PCI slot we delete the top slot.
We then shift the mobo and PSU down while keeping the same case height. Would that allow fitment of a 240mm rad(ala H100 or similar custom) in the top? Or am I completely crazy.
Edit: Just visualizing this in my head I don't think this will work but I don't have the model in front of me. I'm guessing that with the PSU high enough in the case so as not to hit the GPU that it would block and/or hit the front fan on a 240mm rad.
Last Gen AMD/Nvidia <= 10.5"
Current AMD
7850 or lower 7xxx: < 9.5"
7870: <= 10.5"
7950, 7970: 10.5-12" Longest two series of cards I saw
Current Nvidia
GTX 660 or lower: < 10.5"
GTX 660Ti: <= 10.5"
GTX 670: <= 10"
GTX 680, 690: 10-11"
Personal ramblings bellow this line and you may or may not agree with me
I think the max PSU length of 140mm is fine. Silverstone has some modular PSUs that long in the 650w range which should be more than enough for a single card system.
We deleted the optical for space, do we really need to be able to fit more storage in the bottom? I would probably never use more than two 2.5" drives and if I need a lot of storage I'd use an external drive or a NAS.
On Concept 2 what if we went back to 2 pci slots BUT:
Shorten the case front to back with the 10.5" GPU length in mind and instead of deleting the bottom PCI slot we delete the top slot.
We then shift the mobo and PSU down while keeping the same case height. Would that allow fitment of a 240mm rad(ala H100 or similar custom) in the top? Or am I completely crazy.
Edit: Just visualizing this in my head I don't think this will work but I don't have the model in front of me. I'm guessing that with the PSU high enough in the case so as not to hit the GPU that it would block and/or hit the front fan on a 240mm rad.
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True. I'm not sure what the market is for larger video card coolers (obviously big enough for Arctic Cooling to be producing large after-market coolers I guess), but it is nice to have more room for HDD's etc. Guess I'm not sure what the third expansion slot itself is for *shrug*.
necere, my only concern is that, size wise, you're getting into PC-Q18 territory. Obviously the layout is different, allowing for larger coolers. I'm just concerned that it's not that different to what's already available in the market *shrug*.
Alright, lukewarm response on concept 2, so next iteration...
Concept 3
Borrowing heavily from my SG09 redesign with the look on this one, a bit of a change layout-wise. Dropped any pretense of trying to stuff in an ATX power supply - just couldn't make it work comfortably. SFX only on this one. 450W is enough for small box like this, right?
Specs
Pics, still work-in-progress
Concept 3
Borrowing heavily from my SG09 redesign with the look on this one, a bit of a change layout-wise. Dropped any pretense of trying to stuff in an ATX power supply - just couldn't make it work comfortably. SFX only on this one. 450W is enough for small box like this, right?
Specs
- 185 x 230 x 340mm, 14.5L
- dual slot 11" max length GPU
- 160mm max height CPU cooler
- 3 x 3.5" drives
- 140mm front fan, 120mm rear
- SFX power supply
Pics, still work-in-progress
Wow, that looks GREAT!!
Might I suggest hard drive mounts on the bottom of the case?
Have it be something that would accept 2x3.5" drives and/or 3x2.5". It would likely need just a few extra millimeters at the bottom of the case (10-20mm) to give ample room for hard drives at the bottom. There's a few lian-li cases that have something like this already that you could draw concept from.
You could also likely use a 140mm rear fan to cover both the hard drive cooling at the bottom and the CPU's heat-sink.
I really like the way this is coming along
Might I suggest hard drive mounts on the bottom of the case?
Have it be something that would accept 2x3.5" drives and/or 3x2.5". It would likely need just a few extra millimeters at the bottom of the case (10-20mm) to give ample room for hard drives at the bottom. There's a few lian-li cases that have something like this already that you could draw concept from.
You could also likely use a 140mm rear fan to cover both the hard drive cooling at the bottom and the CPU's heat-sink.
I really like the way this is coming along
Heh... I make it smaller and people want it bigger...
140mm fan on the back would make the case 20mm wider. With no other benefit. So I don't think we'll be doing that. Besides, it's better this way. The 140 in front should move a bit more air than the 120, and plus the GPU exhaust it should have a roughly equal or slightly positive airflow equilibrium.
140mm fan on the back would make the case 20mm wider. With no other benefit. So I don't think we'll be doing that. Besides, it's better this way. The 140 in front should move a bit more air than the 120, and plus the GPU exhaust it should have a roughly equal or slightly positive airflow equilibrium.
Is there a way we could put the PSU behind the motherboard? For cable management, and so that we do not need that internal power cord thing
I also liked the stright edge box look, we shouldnt get away from that Tall case was nice also
Just my two cents
I also liked the stright edge box look, we shouldnt get away from that
Tall case was nice also Just my two cents
Well... no. I mean, the case would have to be 60mm wider. 30% bigger. Wider than it is tall. So yeah... no.
That looks great, great looking design.
My additions would be for it to be a tad wider, so that you have some space behind the motherboard where you can do cable management.
Would be unique, the only small SFF ITX case with cable management behind the motherboard, similar to the SG09, but ITX.
My additions would be for it to be a tad wider, so that you have some space behind the motherboard where you can do cable management.
Would be unique, the only small SFF ITX case with cable management behind the motherboard, similar to the SG09, but ITX.
Wouldn't the AC input do better at the bottom of the case so it can go straight to the psu instead of having to go over and then down across the front?
SFX PSU is fine. If they can power GTX 680s now they should be able to power anything down the line.
Having mounting holes for 2.5" drives in the bottom is fine but increasing the case height to fit more 3.5" drives down there...
The SG05 can fit one 3.5", unmodified Concept 3 can fit three, why do we need space for FIVE 3.5" drives?
Otherwise I think its great compromise between size and functionality.
SFX PSU is fine. If they can power GTX 680s now they should be able to power anything down the line.
Having mounting holes for 2.5" drives in the bottom is fine but increasing the case height to fit more 3.5" drives down there...
The SG05 can fit one 3.5", unmodified Concept 3 can fit three, why do we need space for FIVE 3.5" drives?
Otherwise I think its great compromise between size and functionality.
Yeah, I'll probably change that.
Indeed. 2.5" drives are no problem on the bottom; there's already enough space for it. 3.5" OTOH... would likely need another 10-15mm of height. Not too keen on that.
Not too keen on making the case wider for cable management, either, but what I can do is move the PSU over to one side which opens up a bit of space toward the front where cables could be stuffed (the blue area):
It's not a huge space - about as much as you'd get in a single 3.5" bay, but better than nothing.
Custom watercooling test:
140mm and 120mm slim rads, D5 pump with Koolance top and res. Moved the motherboard up to allow just enough space for a 3.5" drive on the case bottom. Added the 2.5" over the PSU. This is with a 10" GPU. Pretty tight, but doable.
140mm and 120mm slim rads, D5 pump with Koolance top and res. Moved the motherboard up to allow just enough space for a 3.5" drive on the case bottom. Added the 2.5" over the PSU. This is with a 10" GPU. Pretty tight, but doable.
Klrgoten
Gawd
- Joined
- Oct 16, 2012
- Messages
- 642
I personally favor the vertical design but the most recent looks awesome!
Nice work, but you gotta take cabling into consideration as usual, front io placement means no ssd above psu, always give 10-20mm spacing from the mb 24pin, 4pin cpu, sata connectors. and still dn see the need for huge heatsinks in itx cases. There's space for top 2.5" and btm 2.5" though.
Maybe you can put the sfx psu opposite the mb somewhat like lian li cases.allowing space for a 140 at the front and maybe a 5.25 bay.
Another idea would be for a side panel window mod for ur mini build showcase or a fan directly blowing onto the mb replacing the window.
Maybe you can put the sfx psu opposite the mb somewhat like lian li cases.allowing space for a 140 at the front and maybe a 5.25 bay.
Another idea would be for a side panel window mod for ur mini build showcase or a fan directly blowing onto the mb replacing the window.
These are examples of the front connector assemblies Lian Li uses:
And the clearance in my design:
Hopefully that lays your concerns to rest.
I really dig the latest iteration guys... My only 2 gripes would be:
A) For me, an SG05 evolution would have a smaller footprint than the original. I understand why you've chosen to increase the case dimensions though.
B) An ideal case (again, for me) would have 3 expansion slots, preferably away from the graphics card so that the 2nd card wouldn't interfere with an axial cooler.
Regardless of these 2 minor gripes, this is outstanding work from the lot of you. Mad ups to all involved.
I sincerely hope that you individuals already do this for a living, or have plans to do so in the future. I would potentially throw down on an order for a finished one of these.
We'll see if this iteration sticks or if it's gonna evolve again.
A) For me, an SG05 evolution would have a smaller footprint than the original. I understand why you've chosen to increase the case dimensions though.
B) An ideal case (again, for me) would have 3 expansion slots, preferably away from the graphics card so that the 2nd card wouldn't interfere with an axial cooler.
Regardless of these 2 minor gripes, this is outstanding work from the lot of you. Mad ups to all involved.
I sincerely hope that you individuals already do this for a living, or have plans to do so in the future. I would potentially throw down on an order for a finished one of these.
We'll see if this iteration sticks or if it's gonna evolve again.
How would you use a second card with only the single PCIe slot of an ITX board? The only way I can think of is through a Mini-PCIe adapter and flexible riser, but, even if it worked it's such an edge case that it makes no sense to design for it. Maybe if Mini-DTX ever catches on, but there doesn't seem to be much hope in that direction.
Regarding the footprint, check this out. Compared to the SG05, it's definitely larger. But the extended front panel with side intakes is really more comparable to the SG06, and on that count they are practically identical:
SG05: 220 x 276 = 60,720 mm²
SG06: 220 x 286 = 62,920 mm²
Concept 3: 185 x 340 = 62,900 mm²
Of course, people don't tend to compare footprints by area like that, but it still shows how close they are. Whether people are going to prioritize depth over width or vice versa comes down to personal preference, and there's no right answer, really.
Regarding the footprint, check this out. Compared to the SG05, it's definitely larger. But the extended front panel with side intakes is really more comparable to the SG06, and on that count they are practically identical:
SG05: 220 x 276 = 60,720 mm²
SG06: 220 x 286 = 62,920 mm²
Concept 3: 185 x 340 = 62,900 mm²
Of course, people don't tend to compare footprints by area like that, but it still shows how close they are. Whether people are going to prioritize depth over width or vice versa comes down to personal preference, and there's no right answer, really.
Yeah my plan was to use a mPCIE adapter for a second card on an ITX board, you got me. It's just that the case is actually really close to my ideal case, but I would want/need to mod in a 3rd slot. This is a "me" thing and doesn't reflect negatively on your combined efforts.
Usable internal space is a lot higher than I thought on this case, you've done a great job in that regard. I'm really trying to miniaturize my next build, even to the lengths of using thin itx boards, or frankenstein-ing an Intel NUC with a thunderbolt GPU when they're out (which won't work due to USB 2.0 only). I like the idea of using an mPCIE adapter purely out of curiosity I think.
The one thing that does occur to me (small thing), is that the top of the case should have some vents with the GPU mounted that way.
Really, seriously, outstanding work, can't say this enough. Didn't mean to come across negatively and I'm sorry if I did.
wahaha360
Gawd
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- Sep 8, 2012
- Messages
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We do it for fun.
We will need crowd funding to make these designs into reality and could definitely use your support when the time comes.
For those not looking for a new case or on the fence, let us know your thoughts and we will keep improving the design.
megavolt1123
n00b
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Would buy this.
Would DEFINITELY buy this. Needs more ventilation though imo
this case needs to be made!!
Comparison with the SG05:
I could go smaller, but it means sacrifices:
- Narrower and you lose tall cooler support and rear 120mm fan mount
- Shorter and you lose third expansion slot/optional HDD mounting
- Shallower and you lose long (300mm) GPU support
Putting the PSU back over the motherboard forgoes big air coolers, but allows the use of 120mm rads in front, like the SG05, while cutting width by an inch or so.
What do you guys think?
Keep it a bit bigger for high-end hardware (3-slot 12" GPU, AIO liquid or high-end air CPU cooling, more HDDs)?
Or go for the SG05 compromise (2-slot 10.5" GPU, AIO liquid or low-end air CPU cooling)?
Would DEFINITELY buy this. Needs more ventilation though imo
this case needs to be made!!
I'll keep that in mind. I have yet to put in any of the structural parts.
A little size comparison:
Footprint is just slightly larger than the SG05 - longer but narrower.
D
Deleted member 222586
Guest
Why not put a fan on top or bottom of the case?
Nah, constructive criticism is always good.
Added some vents to the top rear, matching the ones at the front:
The rear fan by itself is not a problem - it sits over the rear port stacks, which are limited to by the I/O shield. The VRM daughterboard on the P8Z77-I Deluxe stops well short of that.
With a radiator mounted it's tighter, but should still be okay:
Although I'm not sure this model is 100% accurate; the daughterboard measures ~41mm from the motherboard in the model, while someone on another forum measured it at ~45mm. But that's still probably okay, since I've got 47.5mm of clearance.
This is just a rough draft, keep in mind, and all those minor dimensions are subject to change.
I can add a vents and fan mount on the bottom no problem, since there's already space for it.
I like this idea too... The other thing that occurs to me is that the case length is already ~300mm, if you moved some stuff around a bit you could fit a 280mm rad in the top like that fellow did with his [excellent] SG08 build recently.
You might need to move around the internals a lot though.
Concept 2's top panel was fully ventilated out of necessity, acting as the exhaust for both the 140mm fan and PSU. Concept 3 has a nice front-to back airflow thing going on, with no real need for a fully ventilated top panel.
Furthermore, there are two reasons I don't favor full top panel vents: one, it would let more sound through. Two, I don't know about you, but I don't care to see the internals through the vents (as on e.g. the SG05). Windows are one thing, but I'd just as soon not see the less seemly parts of the case through a vent. Acoustically and aesthetically, solid top and side panels are better IMO.
In regards to a 280mm rad - there just isn't room for it. At a bare minimum, the case would need to be 30mm taller (for a 30mm thick rad). At that point, it's tall enough to house a MATX motherboard, so the question is do you add those two slots to give people the option? But then it gets compared to other MATX cases and there ends up being not enough space for other things and so on.
There's a couple of ways you can design a compact case - you can make it as small as possible, and massage the component locations and dimensions to get some extra flexibility (e.g., radiator mounts) as a bonus; or you can design it from the outset with dedicated room set aside for radiators and such. My approach with this case is the former. The latter leads you to cases like the Prodigy, which is as big as some MATX cases. I personally have a hard time seeing the value in that.
Anyway, maybe this'll make up for it? Managed to stuff another 120 rad on the bottom, meaning you can have dual rads and keep the 3.5" drives:
Would be a tricky build. But great for a pair of AIO liquid coolers - one for the CPU, one for the GPU. I had to increase the height to 5mm to 235mm though, just too tight otherwise.
Also put the motherboard tray in, w/cpu cutout:
Furthermore, there are two reasons I don't favor full top panel vents: one, it would let more sound through. Two, I don't know about you, but I don't care to see the internals through the vents (as on e.g. the SG05). Windows are one thing, but I'd just as soon not see the less seemly parts of the case through a vent. Acoustically and aesthetically, solid top and side panels are better IMO.
In regards to a 280mm rad - there just isn't room for it. At a bare minimum, the case would need to be 30mm taller (for a 30mm thick rad). At that point, it's tall enough to house a MATX motherboard, so the question is do you add those two slots to give people the option? But then it gets compared to other MATX cases and there ends up being not enough space for other things and so on.
There's a couple of ways you can design a compact case - you can make it as small as possible, and massage the component locations and dimensions to get some extra flexibility (e.g., radiator mounts) as a bonus; or you can design it from the outset with dedicated room set aside for radiators and such. My approach with this case is the former. The latter leads you to cases like the Prodigy, which is as big as some MATX cases. I personally have a hard time seeing the value in that.
Anyway, maybe this'll make up for it? Managed to stuff another 120 rad on the bottom, meaning you can have dual rads and keep the 3.5" drives:
Would be a tricky build. But great for a pair of AIO liquid coolers - one for the CPU, one for the GPU. I had to increase the height to 5mm to 235mm though, just too tight otherwise.
Also put the motherboard tray in, w/cpu cutout:
Necere:
I'm guessing the HDD's are mounted on some form of a HDD cage?
While it would be nice to stuff in all those mechanical disks, there might be some of us happy with just the one or two high capacity SSD's.
That should free up space for a front mounted rad/reservoir.
Would look cleaner I think. Could you maybe provide some renders of such a layout?
Also, this might be asking for a lot, but the interiors will look VERY different once you factor in all the tubing/cabling. Would be nice to see that as well.
I'm guessing the HDD's are mounted on some form of a HDD cage?
While it would be nice to stuff in all those mechanical disks, there might be some of us happy with just the one or two high capacity SSD's.
That should free up space for a front mounted rad/reservoir.
Would look cleaner I think. Could you maybe provide some renders of such a layout?
Also, this might be asking for a lot, but the interiors will look VERY different once you factor in all the tubing/cabling. Would be nice to see that as well.