Using Windows 8 - grr

C

coolrunnings

Limp Gawd
Joined
Nov 21, 2004
Messages
511
Anyone else feel like using Windows 8 is like being stuck in Windows Media Center and having Explorer.exe not responding? That is about how the interface feels to me. The Windows Desktop interface wasn't broken. I wish they would have just left it alone and made Metro an Add-On.
 
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It's about the same for me. I rarely use the metro stuff. I do miss aero but I do everything from the desktop/taskbar still.

I actually organized the metro/start side and I can get to my programs even faster than before. Let alone the faster bootup and shutdown times :)

I had one crash and it was because of nvidia drivers in the past month since installing it. There are some clunky stuff with Metro they should have refined though...
 
0K8AD.jpg


No, it doesn't feel that way to me. Ninety nine percent of the time I'm on the desktop, which hasn't really changed. The one percent where I'm in metro, the number of icons, icon grouping, and live tiles are fine.
 
Feels perfectly fine to me. Ive already moved completely to windows 8 on all my workstations. Once i got used to the shortcuts to navigate around, i find it quite decent tbh.
 
coolrunnings said:
Anyone else feel like using Windows 8 is like being stuck in Windows Media Center and having Explorer.exe not responding? That is about how the interface feels to me. The Windows Desktop interface wasn't broken. I wish they would have just left it alone and made Metro an Add-On.
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You and 95% of the rest of us.
 
coolrunnings said:
Anyone else feel like using Windows 8 is like being stuck in Windows Media Center and having Explorer.exe not responding? That is about how the interface feels to me. The Windows Desktop interface wasn't broken. I wish they would have just left it alone and made Metro an Add-On.
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Click the giant tile labeled "Desktop" and you're fine?
 
Numan said:
Click the giant tile labeled "Desktop" and you're fine?
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Dude! Do you have any idea how much work that is?? Seriously though, I get the impression you (OP) are not into metro apps, in which case, you should only be in the start menu to launch a desktop program. You should probably just organize the start screen so it has all your common apps in it, then I think you will find it's really quite nice.

Here's mine: https://736oqw.blu.livefilestore.co...msZUWlIyinbkoAhY54-w/mystartscreen.png?psid=1

So for me, instead of having apps all over the place (pinned to task bar, pinned to start menu, in start menu folders, on desktop, and some I have to navigate to with explorer) that can take up to 5 clicks to launch, they are all two clicks to launch. Anything else I need, I can right click the start screen and go to all apps and find easily. Having large icons makes for faster visual recognition over the old start menu folder list, and I don't have to remember where I start an app from because they're all in the same place. Search is pretty much the same, windows key and type. It's a better system when you quantify it for most every use case I would think, some people are just dead set on not giving it a chance or have not thought enough about it to see its' benefits. Then I have a few metro apps so I can get useful information from live tiles (mail count, weather, news, calendar, etc.) in one click, it's very efficient when catered to your needs.
 
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Actually no I'm not dead-set against it. I'm just frustrated because the way I work with things got more complicated. For example, on Windows 7, when I click Start and start typing, the search not only searches my documents, desktop, start menu, etc. but also serves as a pseudo-Run replacement. I want to type "Appwiz.cpl" or "Windows Update" even, and it doesn't find them. Another example is having the control panel broken up. It's like the difference between having an interface like Computer Management at your fingertips but having to go through a 3-4 part wizard for everything instead of just being able to click on it and run it.

One of the things I have always valued about the Windows platform over the Mac was that if I didn't like the way something looked or functioned, Microsoft usually gave us the ability to customize the menu system or drag it to a different position. Even in Windows 7 when they hid many of the task bars, you could still get them with Alt. Now I have to go hunting for nearly every option.

I'm open to anyone telling me how to avoid these annoyances in Windows 8 by customizing it. In my field I don't have the luxury of saying "Heck with it! I'm staying with Windows 7." I have to learn Windows 8 because I'm going to be stuck supporting it. I'm just not liking how much more complicated things are becoming in the name of making it "user friendly". Most of the users I know are going to be pissed when they get a computer with this...
 
coolrunnings said:
Actually no I'm not dead-set against it. I'm just frustrated because the way I work with things got more complicated. For example, on Windows 7, when I click Start and start typing, the search not only searches my documents, desktop, start menu, etc. but also serves as a pseudo-Run replacement. I want to type "Appwiz.cpl" or "Windows Update" even, and it doesn't find them. Another example is having the control panel broken up. It's like the difference between having an interface like Computer Management at your fingertips but having to go through a 3-4 part wizard for everything instead of just being able to click on it and run it.
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There's a tradeoff at play here. You can still search for control panel things using win+w or files with Win+F. The trade off is that full-screen,unified search allows for many more results be returned, and results from alternative providers. Any modern apps that you install which integrate themselves as a search provider will appear under the standard applications/settings/files search. They, too, can return tons of results, specific to what you'd used the app for.

While it frustrated me at first to have to change my workflow to use win+w for settings search and win+f for files, now that it's second nature to me the benefits of being able to see many more results (especially in files and from other apps, such as music or video), outweighs the cost of that relearning. Trade-off.
 
coolrunnings said:
Actually no I'm not dead-set against it. I'm just frustrated because the way I work with things got more complicated. For example, on Windows 7, when I click Start and start typing, the search not only searches my documents, desktop, start menu, etc. but also serves as a pseudo-Run replacement. I want to type "Appwiz.cpl" or "Windows Update" even, and it doesn't find them.
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This should work very similar Windows 7, you may have to select the Setting category if type "Windows Update", type "appwiz.cpl" works the same. I know a lot of people complain about the categories in the new Search however Metro apps can extend search directly into apps, that just much cooler than most Windows 8 opponents realize because they spend so much time trying to avoid Metro rather than use it.
 
coolrunnings said:
Actually no I'm not dead-set against it. I'm just frustrated because the way I work with things got more complicated. For example, on Windows 7, when I click Start and start typing, the search not only searches my documents, desktop, start menu, etc. but also serves as a pseudo-Run replacement. I want to type "Appwiz.cpl" or "Windows Update" even, and it doesn't find them. Another example is having the control panel broken up. It's like the difference between having an interface like Computer Management at your fingertips but having to go through a 3-4 part wizard for everything instead of just being able to click on it and run it.

One of the things I have always valued about the Windows platform over the Mac was that if I didn't like the way something looked or functioned, Microsoft usually gave us the ability to customize the menu system or drag it to a different position. Even in Windows 7 when they hid many of the task bars, you could still get them with Alt. Now I have to go hunting for nearly every option.

I'm open to anyone telling me how to avoid these annoyances in Windows 8 by customizing it. In my field I don't have the luxury of saying "Heck with it! I'm staying with Windows 7." I have to learn Windows 8 because I'm going to be stuck supporting it. I'm just not liking how much more complicated things are becoming in the name of making it "user friendly". Most of the users I know are going to be pissed when they get a computer with this...
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Weird, I just typed both those examples and it found both no problem. As far as the control panel, I just add an icon to the taskbar.
 
An easy way to get to the control panel is to move the mouse cursor to the bottom left corner, as if you were trying to call up the Start Screen, and then RIGHT click the mouse and choose "control panel" from the pop up menu that appears.
 
Eman D. Rahym said:
An easy way to get to the control panel is to move the mouse cursor to the bottom left corner, as if you were trying to call up the Start Screen, and then RIGHT click the mouse and choose "control panel" from the pop up menu that appears.
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Thank you! I need time-saving stuff like this to make using Windows 8 less frustrating. I'm forcing myself to use Windows 8 for my evening surfing to get used to it. Thanks!

BTW just figured out the settings/apps/file breakdown of the search. MAN I wish I could get that combined like it was in 7.
 
Tawnos said:
There's a tradeoff at play here. You can still search for control panel things using win+w or files with Win+F. The trade off is that full-screen,unified search allows for many more results be returned, and results from alternative providers. Any modern apps that you install which integrate themselves as a search provider will appear under the standard applications/settings/files search. They, too, can return tons of results, specific to what you'd used the app for.

While it frustrated me at first to have to change my workflow to use win+w for settings search and win+f for files, now that it's second nature to me the benefits of being able to see many more results (especially in files and from other apps, such as music or video), outweighs the cost of that relearning. Trade-off.
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In other words, they've created not only a bimodal interface but a bimodal interface with submodes.

This is a rookie mistake. Interface design 101 dictates that moded interfaces are bad for the average user because of the possibility of mode errors. Moded interfaces should only be used (in software targeting a general audience) when nothing else will do.
 
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devil22 said:
Dude! Do you have any idea how much work that is?? Seriously though, I get the impression you (OP) are not into metro apps, in which case, you should only be in the start menu to launch a desktop program.
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http://blogs.msdn.com/b/b8/archive/...celerating-everything-windows-8-graphics.aspx

The metro bullshit is accelerated, FULLY. So if you run it on a device with a battery, kiss your long battery life GOODBYE. Because you'll get to watch your GPU go into full power mode.

Yeah, it's another "win8 sucks" thread, but there can never be enough of these threads.
 
rampantandroid said:
http://blogs.msdn.com/b/b8/archive/...celerating-everything-windows-8-graphics.aspx

The metro bullshit is accelerated, FULLY. So if you run it on a device with a battery, kiss your long battery life GOODBYE. Because you'll get to watch your GPU go into full power mode.

Yeah, it's another "win8 sucks" thread, but there can never be enough of these threads.
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I don't see anything there about power usage, the gpu can be more power efficient than the cpu depending on the task. I'll ignore the rest of what you said, since you probably don't know what you're talking about anyway.
 
devil22 said:
I don't see anything there about power usage, the gpu can be more power efficient than the cpu depending on the task. I'll ignore the rest of what you said, since you probably don't know what you're talking about anyway.
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I suggest you try running powercfg (look in its options) and try some battery rundown tests.
 
rampantandroid said:
I suggest you try running powercfg (look in its options) and try some battery rundown tests.
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What makes you think I have a portable device? I did not say anything to that effect. Why don't you run some "battery rundown tests" and post the results, then we can go from there.
 
damicatz said:
In other words, they've created not only a bimodal interface but a bimodal interface with submodes.

This is a rookie mistake. Interface design 101 dictates that moded interfaces are bad for the average user because of the possibility of mode errors. Moded interfaces should only be used (in software targeting a general audience) when nothing else will do.
Click to expand...

I googled "why are bimodal interfaces bad" and got exactly one page with results, with your post being the only one related to UIs. I'm thinking if this really was some mythical interface design 101 mistake, it would be listed in google. Anyways, can you link to something that backs up those statements? Not that it matters, humans are far from discovering the be all end all of most things, and what was once thought to be mistake can be a benefit when coupled with new insight. The "bimodalness" of Windows 8 is such that a child can understand it if they think about it longer than 5 seconds, so I'm not concerned this is an issue.
 
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rampantandroid said:
http://blogs.msdn.com/b/b8/archive/...celerating-everything-windows-8-graphics.aspx

The metro bullshit is accelerated, FULLY. So if you run it on a device with a battery, kiss your long battery life GOODBYE. Because you'll get to watch your GPU go into full power mode.

Yeah, it's another "win8 sucks" thread, but there can never be enough of these threads.
Click to expand...

Hardware acceleration saves batteries not wastes... Android and I assume IOS have hardware accelerated interfaces.
 
Ahh I see we are back in April again! Superb.

At first I felt 8 was a total mess. Then I stopped acting like a 13 year old who is late to puberty, grew up, actually used it for more than 20 minutes and now I find it's perfectly okay.

Needs a bit more tweaking but its okay.

To all you nay sayers - nut up or shut up.



The only problem is that MS has blown it with the the full Windows Tablet prices. Wayy too expensive. But we suspected that all along.
 
daglesj said:
At first I felt 8 was a total mess. Then I stopped acting like a 13 year old who is late to puberty, grew up, actually used it for more than 20 minutes and now I find it's perfectly okay.
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At first I felt 8 was a total mess. Then I stopped acting like a 13 year old who is late to puberty, grew up, actually removed it and went back to Windows 7. I'll leave Win 8 for the 13 year olds that need a touchscreen interface and big colored blocks to shuffle around. I'll be productive as an adult in Windows 7 and leave the baby toys for the babies.
 
Fair warning, do not degrade this thread into a flamefest.
 
daglesj said:
The only problem is that MS has blown it with the the full Windows Tablet prices. Wayy too expensive. But we suspected that all along.
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I don't think the x86 tablets are WAY to expensive but sure they are more expensive than other devices of comparable computer hardware. But they are lighter and they do indeed serve as touch and even pen capable tablets. And the hardware from what I've seen thus far is better built than typical PCs in cheaper price ranges, and all the screens I've seen announced are much better on average than cheaper machines.

So yes, there's a price premium on these tablets but this is new hardware and the prices will come down as production of these devices ramps up. But these devices do have capabilities that lower priced machines don't have and better screens overall.
 
heatlesssun said:
I don't think the x86 tablets are WAY to expensive but sure they are more expensive than other devices of comparable computer hardware. But they are lighter and they do indeed serve as touch and even pen capable tablets. And the hardware from what I've seen thus far is better built than typical PCs in cheaper price ranges, and all the screens I've seen announced are much better on average than cheaper machines.

So yes, there's a price premium on these tablets but this is new hardware and the prices will come down as production of these devices ramps up. But these devices do have capabilities that lower priced machines don't have and better screens overall.
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Trouble is though in most tablet customers eyes that want to spend 'a little bit more' will probably go for the iPad, like all their friends/family have. It's not like the iPad is poorly built/supported or has a low quality screen.

I'd like nothing more than for widows tablets to take off but atom powered tablets at that price will be a very very hard sell.

I guess some corps might go for it. But as the IT dept will have spent the past three years shoehorning the Execs ipads into the infrastructure again it may be too late. The hard work of tablet integration has already been done, but they aren't windows based.
 
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daglesj said:
Trouble is though in most tablet customers eyes that want to spend 'a little bit more' will probably go for the iPad, like all their friends/family have. It's not like the iPad is poorly built/supported or has a low quality screen.

I'd like nothing more than for widows tablets to take off but atom powered tablets at that price will be a very very hard sell.
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An iPad isn't the same kind of device as a Windows 8 hybrid. The reason why people will buy Windows 8 hybrids is that they are laptops that can also function like an iPad.
 
heatlesssun said:
An iPad isn't the same kind of device as a Windows 8 hybrid. The reason why people will buy Windows 8 hybrids is that they are laptops that can also function like an iPad.
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No it isn't to us, I agree. But to the other 99 percent with a few hundred dollars burning a hole in their pocket they are both just tablets. And that iPad does look so shiny....

If you want to sell in the numbers that are needed to make a truly successful product and ecosystem you have to forget about us on the HardOcp forum as being the target market. It has to sell sell sell.

Folks that want a full blown windows in a tablet at that price (with frankly quite possible disappointing cpu perfomance) will be a far smaller group.

Only time will tell but we could be looking at another PlayBook type sell off come June 2013.
 
microsoft_surface.jpg


I'd say this looks just as shiny, perhaps even shinier than an iPad and it looks as much like a laptop as an iPad. When I saw this and the amount of effort and thought that Microsoft put into the keyboard covers, it became clear to me that this is Microsoft's vision of the typical Windows 8/RT tablet, a hybrid device that makes people think about laptops as much or even more than tablets.
 
daglesj said:
No it isn't to us, I agree. But to the other 99 percent with a few hundred dollars burning a hole in their pocket they are both just tablets. And that iPad does look so shiny....

If you want to sell in the numbers that are needed to make a truly successful product and ecosystem you have to forget about us on the HardOcp forum as being the target market. It has to sell sell sell.

Folks that want a full blown windows in a tablet at that price (with frankly quite possible disappointing cpu perfomance) will be a far smaller group.

Only time will tell but we could be looking at another PlayBook type sell off come June 2013.
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I agree that the market will be the ultimate arbiter of whether Windows 8 is successful or not. And there sure do seem to be a lot of folks predicting failure. Of course, when it first came out there was a lot of speculation that the iPad would bomb too, and Apple is still laughing all the way to the bank.

Out of all the OEMs who provide Windows based PCs or laptops, are there any who are taking a pass on Windows 8 and sticking with their old designs? Or are they all jumping into the Windows 8 pool? A lot of folks here seem to think Microsoft is stupid or insane or both, and perhaps they are right, but surely not everyone involved in the production of Windows based PCs is stupid or insane? If Windows 8 is truly a bad idea, surely some one or another of the OEMs is making that case to their shareholders? Anyone got any links? Or is this another case of a "dog that didn't bark?"
 
I don't think we have an OS or a hardware issue here. Both are fine for what they do.

The price is just too high if you want to get what's left of a market that's nearly 4 years old already. If we were in 2009 I might feel a little more hopeful.

It's a firmly entrenched market, reminds me of MS trying to shoehorn the Zune into the PMP market after four years of ipod dominance. Zune was good hardware and as a product was arguably better than Apples but it failed pretty much totally.
 
Huh? The iPad is just two and a half years old and once again it's not a laptop. Windows 8 hybrid devices aren't just tablets, they are laptops. Microsoft isn't trying to sell just a tablet with a Windows 8 hybrid device, its selling a tablet and a laptop in one device and that's not only not a 4 year old market, it won't exist until October 26th.
 
daglesj said:
It's a firmly entrenched market, reminds me of MS trying to shoehorn the Zune into the PMP market after four years of ipod dominance. Zune was good hardware and as a product was arguably better than Apples but it failed pretty much totally.
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Actually, according to Apple's own sales statistics, they weren't selling many iPods by the time the Zune came out either. The iPhone had almost totally cannibalized the sales of the iPod, and as of Q3 2012, the iPod makes up only 3% of Apple's revenue.

Wasn't so much the market being entrenched that caused the Zune hardware to fail, as it was the fact that dedicated PMP's simply weren't selling anymore, no matter who was making them. Cell phones took over that role for most people.
 
Sorry was thinking of the iPhone.

But I stand by my Windows x86 tablet fear of too late and too expensive.


I might pick one up in a clearance sale this time next year.
 
daglesj said:
But I stand by my Windows x86 tablet fear of too late and too expensive.
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Too late compared to an iPad? Again, an iPad is NOT a PC. Windows 8 x86 tablets are the thinnest, lightest, best built and most battery efficient PCs ever built. In the their hybrid form we're looking at some incredible runtimes. The HP Envy x2 has two batteries, one in the dock and one in the screen, weighs 3.1lbs total and should get somewhere in the neighborhood of 18 hours of battery life if the rumors are true.

Intel is going to be demoing some Clover Trail devices this Thursday so we should get a better idea of what these devices can do but regardless of the iPad and Android tablets, we're still looking at some very compelling full desktop OS PCs that are much better in a number of areas than anything anyone has today.
 
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