Big Government Wants a Black Box in YOUR Car

This is why I bought a dash cam for my GF and I. Gotta a little bit of crap from family and friends for it but I hoped so it would come in handy.

When some idiot decided to take an exit a little to late by cutting in front of her and slamming on his brakes, it had to be one of the most satisfying moments ever to hear him lie, lie, lie. "Oh she was tail me and going way to fast." When the cops got there and we showed him and footage, it was just so awesome, and saved her the insurance deductible and hike. :cool:
 
The paranoia and rhetoric over there at infowars was expected, but I thought this crowd would be a bit more knowledgeable.

This bill mandates the recording capability that's in many new cars today. Heck, I thought it was already universal. Your car that's been built in the last decade probably already does this. Check your owners manual, it's required to say so.
Code: 
563.11 Information in owner’s manual. 
(a) The owner’s manual in each vehicle covered under this regulation must provide the 
following statement in English: 
  
This vehicle is equipped with an event data recorder (EDR). The 
main purpose....

Here's the bill: http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/112/s1813/text Search on 31406.
Here's the crash data recorder standard that becomes mandatory instead of optional: http://www.harristechnical.com/downloads/49CFR563.pdf

It specifies that the devices record data for up to 5 seconds before an airbag deployment. I've used this data once. A driver said the truck wouldn't slow down on the wet pavement. The crash recorder showed that the vehicle decelerated just fine before the crash, so, obviously, the braking was started too late and there was a rear-ender.
 
AliceCooper said:
Dash cam would solve this if you are so worried about it. I am still against it, I'll buy a dash cam before I let this black box enter my car. I've been picturing going like 5mph over going downhill then hitting the brakes and all the sudden a ticket prints out of my console for a speeding infraction. No thanks..
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See, this just seems like more FUD to me (nothing personal). I mean, consider the closest thing we have these days: automated traffic cameras at intersections. They detect run red lights and speeders. BUT they have buffers built in. I think you have to be going 8-10over to get a speeding ticket, and it does not start detecting run red lights right away, but gives a 1-2 second buffer. Plus, you can always challenge the ticket, many of which (if legit) get overturned.

A friend of mine works in the local traffic enforcement office dealing with these things. She says that, at least around here, the judges are more than willing to void a ticket based on a reasonable explanation of why it was unwarranted.
 
don_xvi said:
Actually...
Code: 
563.12 Data retrieval tools. 
Each manufacturer of a motor vehicle equipped with an EDR shall ensure by licensing 
agreement or other means that a tool(s) is commercially available that is capable of accessing and 
retrieving the data stored in the EDR that are required by this part. The tool(s) shall be 
commercially available not later than 90 days after the first sale of the motor vehicle for purposes 
other than resale.
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That may be what it states, but that is not what is happening in the marketplace.
 
You can put the box in as soon as the car drives for me. I'd love to get some rest/play games or whatever. I'm tired of driving!
 
I do not really mind this since it would be a good step into determining causes of accidents. I do not want it though if there are not strict rules governing the access of the information though. I would not want it to be a way around the latest rullings about GPS tracking without a warrant. And you know they will too.
 
Modred189 said:
See, this just seems like more FUD to me (nothing personal). I mean, consider the closest thing we have these days: automated traffic cameras at intersections. They detect run red lights and speeders. BUT they have buffers built in. I think you have to be going 8-10over to get a speeding ticket, and it does not start detecting run red lights right away, but gives a 1-2 second buffer. Plus, you can always challenge the ticket, many of which (if legit) get overturned.

A friend of mine works in the local traffic enforcement office dealing with these things. She says that, at least around here, the judges are more than willing to void a ticket based on a reasonable explanation of why it was unwarranted.
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There may be a buffer built in if it ever got to that point, but you can't assume there will be. Also judges around here are not so friendly when it comes to infractions. I was LUCKY to get my running red light ticket dropped after being pulled over even though I entered the intersection during a yellow and exited while it was red (in my state this is perfectly legal). But I see your point.
 
A lot of people can't ever think outside the box - not only that but they trust government regulations to only do what they say. Which is exactly how we lose more rights. Government "legally" takes a tiny step. Then uses that tiny step to take a giant step shortly after.
 
Kitebasher said:
I do not really mind this since it would be a good step into determining causes of accidents. I do not want it though if there are not strict rules governing the access of the information though. I would not want it to be a way around the latest rullings about GPS tracking without a warrant. And you know they will too.
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and that's the reason why so many people are bitching about it. There are plenty of rules about. I can't understand why so many on here are defending this when the government has proven time and time again that in the name of "anti-whatever" they will cut corners, circumvent the constitution, do whatever they feel entitled to, legal or not. I have been in two accidents, both times I asked for help from witnesses to provide affidavits for my court cases. I would rather go that route, than this, any day of the week and twice on weekends.
 
Modred189 said:
See, this just seems like more FUD to me (nothing personal). I mean, consider the closest thing we have these days: automated traffic cameras at intersections. They detect run red lights and speeders. BUT they have buffers built in. I think you have to be going 8-10over to get a speeding ticket, and it does not start detecting run red lights right away, but gives a 1-2 second buffer. Plus, you can always challenge the ticket, many of which (if legit) get overturned.
Click to expand...

If that was the way they really worked, I wouldn't have too much of a problem.

However, over 85% of the red light tickets (in my area) are being given out to people who did come to a complete stop before turning right. That is NOT the same as blowing through a red light.

Several citys where also caught shortening the length of the yellow lights, to increase the number of tickets.
 
DigitalGriffin said:
I AM IN FAVOR OF THIS BILL. This is simply a BLACK BOX for accidents.

1. It does not collect GPS information.
2. Only applies to new cars being built
3. It is stored internally and does not transmit information unless a special diagnostic unit is attached to it.
4. Stores only the last couple minutes of data
5. Records valuable information about who might be guilty of a car accident, as well as valuable data about how to make cars safer.
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This wasn't in the article that Kyle linked. Do you have a link for these claims?
 
You'd be surprised what one of these can fix.

7302417.jpg
 
scojer said:
"Do you know how fast you were going son?"
"40 MPH, the speed limit officer!"
*he checks a PDA type thing*
"You were going 53 MPH. Here is your ticket, have a nice day."
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Your car will contact the police department and they will just send you a fine in the mail.
 
don_xvi said:
Actually, when I posted my link to the bill I included a key element... :D
Code: 
Here's the bill: http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/112/s1813/text Search on 31406.
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Didn't read your post. Made it to page 2 and then quoted someone else. So not sure what you were actually trying to convey to me. ;)
 
Zarathustra[H];1038628420 said:
Congressman called.
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I need to call you out on this my friend. A few weeks back you had no problem with government installing mandated technological devices in cars to prevent people from using cell phones. How is this different?

I see both as invasions of privacy. You could also argue this would promote road safety in the same way banning cell phones would.
 
The way I see it this is a solution looking for a problem.

It is just another bill that will increase the power and scope of a already over-sized and bloated government.

Just like the part of the bill that empowers the IRS to seize your passport on just a accusation of you owing money with out the right to due process. This administration has already increased power and freedoms an already over-sized IRS to do what they want with no control of the courts as a check and balance.

What will they try now?

All I can say if people don't see what is in front of them and start using some of their intelligence, they will get what they asked for a government just like Germany had. A socialistic government that does everything for you, but you have no freedom to choose what you want. They give you everything and nothing means anything because you didn't work for a thing.

I don't know about you but I would rather have the chance to fail when I do something, then it given to me because then what you did really means something to you. In my view the ghettos in the US are the way because everything is given and no one cares about anything because it was just give to you anyway. so what is it to something they will steal anything because they really never had to work for a thing in their life with the chance of them failing and loosing everything.

Sorry about my ranting but I just wanted to get if off my mind.
Joshua Bishop
 
Damn Dumbocrats pass another Big Bro bill. :mad:

I'll be even more upset if the GOP-controlled House passes it. :rolleyes:

Is there a template we can use to write our Congressperson to oppose the bill, like what existed for protesting SOPA and PIPA?
 
Well if some of you wouldn't be so dead set against autonomously driven cars this wouldn't be an issue :p In fact this might be the stop-gap for that as well, since you can't blame the passenger for the accident, and manufacturers of said cars want to be protected as well, having a data recorder would be ideal.

Hell, I've always wanted a camera system in my car similar to cops, because the one time I got dinged for an accident was due to someone swerving in front of me and hitting the brakes right as she merged. However me being in the back automatically put me at fault, and me saying what happened offered little proof.
 
Seriously WTF is going on in the US lately?

I live in Canada, but all I read about lately is a still bad US economy and increases in gas prices but all Uncle Sam can seem to focus on is a new bill every few weeks trying to strip away even more civil liberties.

Isn't there MUCH bigger issues at hand? You know, such as getting and keeping jobs, deciding who running the country next year, forming a consensus on whether Iran and North Korea pose any threat or they're just posers, where to get energy from while China gobbles up more and more oil, who pays for health care, etc. etc. ???
 
beowulf7 said:
Damn Dumbocrats pass another Big Bro bill. :mad:

I'll be even more upset if the GOP-controlled House passes it. :rolleyes:

Is there a template we can use to write our Congressperson to oppose the bill, like what existed for protesting SOPA and PIPA?
Click to expand...

*sigh* Yeah the "Dumbocrats" pass another Big Bro bill... lets see who cosponsored the bill...
Sen. Max Baucus [D-MT]
Sen. James “Jim” Inhofe [R-OK]
Sen. David Vitter [R-LA]

Oh wait... what do those R's mean after their name?

And lets see the actual voting on the measure
http://www.govtrack.us/congress/votes/112-2012/s48

Hmmm only 22 nay votes, Well shit I didn't realize there were only 22 Republitards in the Senate.

Seriously, drop the pretenses that democrats are bad and republicans are good, or liberals are bad and teaparty for our freedoms (or vice versa), the sooner people realize that politicians as they are today are universally all bad the better off you'll be, the better off we'll be because we'll maybe stop bickering about petty "Dumbocrat" arguments and the like.
 
sfsuphysics said:
Well if some of you wouldn't be so dead set against autonomously driven cars this wouldn't be an issue :p .
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I am completely against that, for one reason...

Redneck Jed will think he can fix something on his car with a part purchased at o'rileys or autozone, now would you rather have a car headed at highway speeds that drives it self be factory repaired? or Redneck Jeds ducktape job headed toward you in the other lane?
 
NickJames said:
The red light camera crap is bad enough (which actually has ended up costing our county more than they make in legal costs) but to have this crap in our car that analyzes every little thing we do? There's no amount of technology in the world that can account for human error.
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They pulled the red light cameras out here in Redmond WA after the police logged an increase in accidents.

They left the speed cameras in the school zone across from the elementary schools. Which baffles me because the Redmond PoPo camps the schools aggressively. They need to do this because most of our schools are located in a single area (Education Hill) and there is an old folks home up there as well as all us techno yuppies. And those geezers go out and drive their fucking towncars in the morning. Gramps doesn't get the whole "school zone" and the "stop when school bus lights flash, you retard" thing. Neither do the M3 driving yupitards.

Its' a target rich environment and I love watching the cops do their thing. :D
 
Modred189 said:
First of all, breaking the law is breaking the law. Not sure that "it was only a minor infraction" is an argument that goes a long way.
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The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren't enough criminals, one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws. A-R
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Have you noticed the shit they're trying to pass these days? So...breaking the law is well breaking stupid ass laws that shouldn't even be laws to begin with. Trust me, I've seen cops already say some laws are ridiculous (as they arrest me for it). However I'll give you an example of a stupid ass law they want to pass.

Senate Bill S510
 
crashbox said:
I am completely against that, for one reason...

Redneck Jed will think he can fix something on his car with a part purchased at o'rileys or autozone, now would you rather have a car headed at highway speeds that drives it self be factory repaired? or Redneck Jeds ducktape job headed toward you in the other lane?
Click to expand...

Redneck Jed already does that, except now instead of having a computer which can react infinitely quicker than a person, we have a person who needs to react to avoid RNJ's Duct'd fixer. And one should hope that RNJ's auto-car recognizes the danger and slows and pulls over as a result.
 
sfsuphysics said:
*sigh* Yeah the "Dumbocrats" pass another Big Bro bill...

Seriously, drop the pretenses that democrats are bad and republicans are good, or liberals are bad and teaparty for our freedoms (or vice versa), the sooner people realize that politicians as they are today are universally all bad the better off you'll be, the better off we'll be because we'll maybe stop bickering about petty "Dumbocrat" arguments and the like.
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Amen brother, amen. And who signed in the "Patriot" Act exactly? Bush. Who extended it in 2011? Obama.

Shame on anyone who thinks solely along partisan lines.

And I agree with Kyle here; just look at cell phone tracking (and the fact that many LE agencies now have the equipment to do it themselves without notifying the carrier at all.) Slippery slope indeed.'

We have always been at war with Eurasia....
 
sfsuphysics said:
*sigh* Yeah the "Dumbocrats" pass another Big Bro bill... lets see who cosponsored the bill...
Sen. Max Baucus [D-MT]
Sen. James “Jim” Inhofe [R-OK]
Sen. David Vitter [R-LA]

Oh wait... what do those R's mean after their name?

And lets see the actual voting on the measure
http://www.govtrack.us/congress/votes/112-2012/s48

Hmmm only 22 nay votes, Well shit I didn't realize there were only 22 Republitards in the Senate.

Seriously, drop the pretenses that democrats are bad and republicans are good, or liberals are bad and teaparty for our freedoms (or vice versa), the sooner people realize that politicians as they are today are universally all bad the better off you'll be, the better off we'll be because we'll maybe stop bickering about petty "Dumbocrat" arguments and the like.
Click to expand...

^^^ this 100%. This isn't about Team Blue or Team Red, or some other bullshit.
 
AnonymousUser said:
Have you noticed the shit they're trying to pass these days? So...breaking the law is well breaking stupid ass laws that shouldn't even be laws to begin with. Trust me, I've seen cops already say some laws are ridiculous (as they arrest me for it). However I'll give you an example of a stupid ass law they want to pass.

Senate Bill S510
Click to expand...

If you don't like the laws, either get them changed or move somewhere else. I don;t know anything about S510, but that's a very poorly written article. Most of its attacks are against the reasons behind the bill as opposed to the bill itself in wording, scope etc.

But that's beside the point. There is a difference between laws passed by Congress you don;t like, and those that the SCOTUS has held unconstitutional. Congress doesn't re-pass unconstitutional laws. It's acutely aware of what theSCOTUS does.
 
wonderfield said:
According to the Confrontation Clause, you have the right to face and cross-examine your accuser. That little box won't do such a stunning job during cross-examination :)
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The sixth amendments confrontation clause only applies to cross-examination of the witness in court. While I'm sure you know that this is one of the misspoken "rights" that seem to pop up every time some kind of new "government's going to spy on you" tech shows up.

Incidentally the black box would not need to be a witness, what ever agency ends up having to pull the data would just send a reprehensive to read the data for the court, citing certifications, calibrations etc. That reprehensive becomes the de facto witness or accuser.

I do not have an issue with cars having black boxes; I don't think the government should be involved however. Insurance companies maybe.
 
If car manufacturers want to put black boxes in cars for accident info, I'm fine with that. Why does the government have to be involved? This makes no sense.
 
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