Big Government Wants a Black Box in YOUR Car

FrgMstr

FrgMstr

Just Plain Mean
Staff member
Joined
May 18, 1997
Messages
55,598
G. Minklein just brought to my attention that Section 31406 of Senate Bill 1813 has passed the Senate and is on its way to the House. This bill will effective put the government in your cars in 2015 and going forward.

Section 31406 of Senate Bill 1813 (known as MAP-21), calls for “Mandatory Event Data Recorders” to be installed in all new automobiles and legislates for civil penalties to be imposed against individuals for failing to do so.
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Given the innumerable examples of both government and industry illegally using supposedly privacy-protected information to spy on individuals, this represents the slippery slope to total Big Brother surveillance of every American’s transport habits and location data.
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Find your district representative and give him your thoughts via email...please.
 
The day this passes is the day I buy a bike.
And I fucking love cars and driving.
 
Why is there so much shit like this flying around right now, SOPA, PIPA, CISPA, black box shit, the huge data center in Utah that's being built to monitor all internet traffic and store it. Time to message my reps again :mad:.
 
More reason to own a vintage automobile, or motorcycle, or even bicycle for that matter.

1984 was a warning, not an instruction manual.
 
"Do you know how fast you were going son?"
"40 MPH, the speed limit officer!"
*he checks a PDA type thing*
"You were going 53 MPH. Here is your ticket, have a nice day."
 
Fine with me if it goes both ways. I'm tired of being stopped by cops "assessing" my speed and trying to ticket me without concrete numbers.
 
In order for this to make sense to me, is that it would be subject to the same limitations as a black box is on a plane. That the data is only accessed after the car is totaled, and the purposes that the information could be used were limited, like determining the conditions of the crash and such. Normally I would ASSUME that's what it's for, but with cellular technology that already exists in most cars (nearly every car today has it so your car manufacturer can unlock it remotely if you lock your keys in, for example), that seems VERY unlikely.
 
Sad...

But the government could save a lot of money (perish the thought) and just log your phone info...
 
if its measuring wheel speed I'll just get much bigger wheels and tires. So officer, how fast does the black box say I was going? Only 39 huh? have a nice day!!
 
4si5gk.gif
 
scojer said:
"Do you know how fast you were going son?"
"40 MPH, the speed limit officer!"
*he checks a PDA type thing*
"You were going 53 MPH. Here is your ticket, have a nice day."
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According to the Confrontation Clause, you have the right to face and cross-examine your accuser. That little box won't do such a stunning job during cross-examination :)
 
wonderfield said:
According to the Confrontation Clause, you have the right to face and cross-examine your accuser. That little box won't do such a stunning job during cross-examination :)
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More likely than not you accuser isn't the box but the manufacturer of said box, similar to those roadside speed detectors that snap your picture if you're going to fast.

If it's anything like the Toyota black boxes, there's only like 2 people in the entire Toyota corporation who can access them.
 
Theoretically, the police could just sit behind a desk, audit your black box and send out citations at the end of the month. The possibilities are endless and all of them are bad.

scojer said:
"Do you know how fast you were going son?"
"40 MPH, the speed limit officer!"
*he checks a PDA type thing*
"You were going 53 MPH. Here is your ticket, have a nice day."
Click to expand...
 
The red light camera crap is bad enough (which actually has ended up costing our county more than they make in legal costs) but to have this crap in our car that analyzes every little thing we do? There's no amount of technology in the world that can account for human error.
 
scojer said:
"Do you know how fast you were going son?"
"40 MPH, the speed limit officer!"
*he checks a PDA type thing*
"You were going 53 MPH. Here is your ticket, have a nice day."
Click to expand...

Don't worry in 2020 black box will ticket you automatically without cop :D
 
I'm actually reading 1984 right now, haha. But I also ride the bus to/from work... Still don't like this crap, though.
 
DigitalGriffin said:
I AM IN FAVOR OF THIS BILL. This is simply a BLACK BOX for accidents.

1. It does not collect GPS information.
2. Only applies to new cars being built
3. It is stored internally and does not transmit information unless a special diagnostic unit is attached to it.
4. Stores only the last couple minutes of data
5. Records valuable information about who might be guilty of a car accident, as well as valuable data about how to make cars safer.
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Yeah, sure that is how it starts out. What does it do after the next bill and the hooks are already in.
 
DigitalGriffin said:
I AM IN FAVOR OF THIS BILL. This is simply a BLACK BOX for accidents.

1. It does not collect GPS information.
2. Only applies to new cars being built
3. It is stored internally and does not transmit information unless a special diagnostic unit is attached to it.
4. Stores only the last couple minutes of data
5. Records valuable information about who might be guilty of a car accident, as well as valuable data about how to make cars safer.
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All in theory and as it currently stands, yes.
 
Soo... Is it just recording like every other black box in cars has been doing for the past 20 years, or is it transmitting real time data? Most everyone with a modern car already has a data recorder. On older cars it usually records 10 to 15 seconds before a major impact. Newer vehicles have longer recording times. We need specifics.
 
MajorDomo said:
Theoretically, the police could just sit behind a desk, audit your black box and send out citations at the end of the month. The possibilities are endless and all of them are bad.
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No. That is unreasonble search and seizure. You're protected.
 
LeftSide said:
Soo... Is it just recording like every other black box in cars has been doing for the past 20 years, or is it transmitting real time data? Most everyone with a modern car already has a data recorder. On older cars it usually records 10 to 15 seconds before a major impact. Newer vehicles have longer recording times. We need specifics.
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+1. There have been black boxes in random cars for 15 years now. Car manufacturers used the data from the crash to analyze safety issues with their cars.
 
DigitalGriffin said:
I AM IN FAVOR OF THIS BILL. This is simply a BLACK BOX for accidents.

1. It does not collect GPS information.
2. Only applies to new cars being built
3. It is stored internally and does not transmit information unless a special diagnostic unit is attached to it.
4. Stores only the last couple minutes of data
5. Records valuable information about who might be guilty of a car accident, as well as valuable data about how to make cars safer.
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I was wondering that as well. Simply storing accident data seems like it would be very useful.

I can easily see how this could get out of hand with GPS/speed data/tracking, though.
 
LeftSide said:
Soo... Is it just recording like every other black box in cars has been doing for the past 20 years, or is it transmitting real time data? Most everyone with a modern car already has a data recorder. On older cars it usually records 10 to 15 seconds before a major impact. Newer vehicles have longer recording times. We need specifics.
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Yes and all of that is encoded data that only has access by the manufacturer. This is a government mandated technology accessible to anyone the government feels as though should have it. Today, drunk driving accident killing school kids, tomorrow your rolling stop in the neighborhood.
 
DigitalGriffin said:
No. That is unreasonble search and seizure. You're protected.
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What you deem unreasonable is not necessarily how the government would see it. I would suggest not until the Supreme Court says you are in this instance.
 
AliceCooper said:
Why is there so much shit like this flying around right now, SOPA, PIPA, CISPA, black box shit, the huge data center in Utah that's being built to monitor all internet traffic and store it. Time to message my reps again :mad:.
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The more aware the people become of just how fucked up the Federal/State governments are the more these organizations must take steps towards their self-preservation.

Anything that encourages freedom of information or freedom of thought is a threat to the life of the federal government.

The internet, privacy, traveling outside the US, all of these things present a threat to the existence of the US.

The funny thing is that there can be only one outcome for any organization that moves in the direction that the US and EU is moving.
 
Michaelius said:
Don't worry in 2020 black box will ticket you automatically without cop :D
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I can see it now...

*Warning: Car is doing 156mph in a 60mph zone, license flagged!*
*Accured penalty of $200*
*Current balance: $725*
*Searching for signal...*
*Signal found! Sending report.*
*Sending to LAPD...*
*Ticket 1: $25 Date 2/2/2020 00:08:23 Infraction: 61mph in 60mph zone.*
*Ticket 2: $100 Date: 2/21/2020 00:07:14 Infraction: No seatbelt worn.*
*Ticket 3: $25 Date: 2/21/2020 00:07:14 Infraction: Broken rear left brake light.*
*Ticket 4: $75 Date: 2/23/2020 00:19:01 Infraction: Headlights off after 7:00pm.*
*Ticket 5: $200 Date 2/25/2020 00:02:03 Infraction: 156mph in 60mph zone.*
*Ticket 6: $100 Date 2/25/2020 00:02:03 Infraction: Improper lane change.*
*Ticket 7: $200 Date 2/25/2020 00:02:03 Infraction: Damage to city property (I-95 guard rail).*
*Data sent successfully.*
*Alert: Nearest officer notified.*
*Warning: Water damage detected, car dealership notified of damage. Lease void.*
*Repossession company notified, address sent.*
*Warning: Electrical damage due to water dam-g- dete-t---d ale-- c-*******--010--**---________
 
I am 100% for this. Now if some idiot hits me and tries to lie about whose fault it was, there will be data to help back it up. The way morals are degrading in today's society, with no-one wanting to take responsibility for their actions, this is probably needed.
 
NickJames said:
I can see it now...

*Warning: Car is doing 156mph in a 60mph zone, license flagged!*
*Accured penalty of $200*
*Current balance: $725*
*Searching for signal...*
*Signal found! Sending report.*
*Sending to LAPD...*
*Ticket 1: $25 Date 2/2/2020 00:08:23 Infraction: 61mph in 60mph zone.*
*Ticket 2: $100 Date: 2/21/2020 00:07:14 Infraction: No seatbelt worn.*
*Ticket 3: $25 Date: 2/21/2020 00:07:14 Infraction: Broken rear left brake light.*
*Ticket 4: $75 Date: 2/23/2020 00:19:01 Infraction: Headlights off after 7:00pm.*
*Ticket 5: $200 Date 2/25/2020 00:02:03 Infraction: 156mph in 60mph zone.*
*Ticket 6: $100 Date 2/25/2020 00:02:03 Infraction: Improper lane change.*
*Ticket 7: $200 Date 2/25/2020 00:02:03 Infraction: Damage to city property (I-95 guard rail).*
*Data sent successfully.*
*Alert: Nearest officer notified.*
*Warning: Water damage detected, car dealership notified of damage. Lease void.*
*Repossession company notified, address sent.*
*Warning: Electrical damage due to water dam-g- dete-t---d ale-- c-*******--010--**---________
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Sadly, I see this coming
 
NickJames said:
I can see it now...

*Warning: Car is doing 156mph in a 60mph zone, license flagged!*
*Accured penalty of $200*
*Current balance: $725*
*Searching for signal...*
*Signal found! Sending report.*
*Sending to LAPD...*
*Ticket 1: $25 Date 2/2/2020 00:08:23 Infraction: 61mph in 60mph zone.*
*Ticket 2: $100 Date: 2/21/2020 00:07:14 Infraction: No seatbelt worn.*
*Ticket 3: $25 Date: 2/21/2020 00:07:14 Infraction: Broken rear left brake light.*
*Ticket 4: $75 Date: 2/23/2020 00:19:01 Infraction: Headlights off after 7:00pm.*
*Ticket 5: $200 Date 2/25/2020 00:02:03 Infraction: 156mph in 60mph zone.*
*Ticket 6: $100 Date 2/25/2020 00:02:03 Infraction: Improper lane change.*
*Ticket 7: $200 Date 2/25/2020 00:02:03 Infraction: Damage to city property (I-95 guard rail).*
*Data sent successfully.*
*Alert: Nearest officer notified.*
*Warning: Water damage detected, car dealership notified of damage. Lease void.*
*Repossession company notified, address sent.*
*Warning: Electrical damage due to water dam-g- dete-t---d ale-- c-*******--010--**---________
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Bank account ceased - freezing accounts and all assets
 
txfeinbergs said:
I am 100% for this. Now if some idiot hits me and tries to lie about whose fault it was, there will be data to help back it up. The way morals are degrading in today's society, with no-one wanting to take responsibility for their actions, this is probably needed.
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Dash cam would solve this if you are so worried about it. I am still against it, I'll buy a dash cam before I let this black box enter my car. I've been picturing going like 5mph over going downhill then hitting the brakes and all the sudden a ticket prints out of my console for a speeding infraction. No thanks..
 
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