This Explains why Rage Sucks on the PC?

DirectX API just makes developing games much easier. But in reallity, PC's are 10 times or more powerful than consoles and I haven't seen any game looking ten times better, let's make the API go away LOLL. That would means the demise of PC gaming if that ever happens....
 
“We do not see the PC as the leading platform for games,” he explained. “That statement will enrage some people, but it is hard to characterize it otherwise; both console versions will have larger audiences than the PC version. A high end PC is nearly 10 times as powerful as a console, and we could unquestionably provide a better experience if we chose that as our design point and we were able to expend the same amount of resources on it.”
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How full of shit is he now? One minute you want to shift "back" to PC as the lead platform and the next you want to look "forward" with a supposed focus on the "lead" platform based on the "times".

You knew what you were doing Carmack , even when the game is running correctly on the PC (which is a feat on its own) the game play is sub-par and forgettable.

In fact you know what? Keep your damn new engine and crappy game , pander it to console users that don't know any better ..but don't expect them to enjoy a 10 hour game that's exactly like Borderlands.

I expect this kind of shit from Failtek , not from the developer that started the FPS genre. What a disappointment.
 
rudy said:
And BTW I did not buy rage, and after all this I wont even pick it up in the bargain bin. Fact is id hasnt made a good game in a long time and perhaps they never will. Carmac was always a sort of hard headed guy, he stuck to open GL honestly I think he hates microsoft. And for him all these other platforms give him a woody. Finally after all these years he feels vindicated in resisting directx. What he does well is experiments with the under the hood shit in games. But he doesnt make good games anymore and has not since Q3A, and even then it seems like he was all out of quarters since that was just sort of the final polishing of the quake series. Doom, same old same old. Every game that comes out of that camp just seems like the same thing hashed out in many variations.

So wait till someone else gets ahold of the engine they might do something interesting with it.
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There was a quote somewhere, back at Quakecon I think in the keynote, that he stated the MegaTextures were not being used in the way he would have wanted, they were "adding things here and there", if you can't add things here and there in a game engine then that seems to me to show that the engine/MegaTextures are not that flexible.
 
The problem isn't so much Rage sucking, but that people actually bought it in SPITE of it sucking.

When enough people vote with their wallets to buy something that sucks, that leads to more products being sold that sucks, which leads to upcoming products that suck being trotted out for sale for us to buy up.


That, gentlemen, is the very definition of stagnation, if not regression.
 
WorldExclusive said:
Carmack pissed about RAGE issues, but admits id doesn’t see PC as “leading” game platform
http://www.pcgamer.com/2011/10/08/c...ts-id-doesnt-see-pc-as-leading-game-platform/

id isn't getting any of my business now or in there future.
I can't can give shit about what Carmack thinks anymore.
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Just seeing how the game came out you could see Carmack is just a consolitis shill. Sheer lack of quality control on the pc side shows how dedicated he is to the pc. All he cares about is consoles now. Hes just giving us left overs so he can't make that extra little income. Carmack hasn't created anything good for over a decade anyways. Don't expect anything good from him in the future. His credibility is tarnished.
 
Fail said:
Rage sucks cause they focused more on the engine and forgot about actually making a compelling game underneath. That's not really new, the first Assassin's Creed game and Crysis were like that as well. Both games looked pretty and were "firsts" in some respects, but a side effect from being "first" is that as a pioneer, they didn't know exactly what to do with what they created.

It's a convulted way of looking at it, but that's how I perceive it.
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That's Carmack for you. He makes the engine and license it out to better developers.
 
Brent_Justice said:
AMD does allow developers to write to the metal, I don't know specifics, but I heard that at a briefing once, this is so that developers could write code to the GPU for things like physics. I don't have any info about this, just remember hearing about it a while ago and know that it is possible.
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Yea heard something like this too. I've also heard its pretty kludgy mostly unsupported and very difficult to use so very nearly no one, even hardcore demo coders, bothers to even try and use it.
 
Ewog77 said:
Yes, because telling your readers to leave the site helps your bottom line.

Get over it. You sound like a girl who just got her heart broken at the prom. Yes, this is me telling you that you whine to much.
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It always amuses me when people visit somewhere that does not in any way, shape, or form belong to them... see something they don't like... and have a nerd rage over it telling the owner of that place that because they don't like it, it should change.

I wonder how you would respond if Kyle came into your house and demanded you change things because he didn't like it?

As far as ID is concerned, imo the last good thing they did was Doom 2. Since then it's pretty much all been disappointing rubbish. I honestly don't know why people still have this mystique about them... They released some great games way back when, sure, but what have they done lately?
 
Fail said:
The problem isn't so much Rage sucking, but that people actually bought it in SPITE of it sucking.

When enough people vote with their wallets to buy something that sucks, that leads to more products being sold that sucks, which leads to upcoming products that suck being trotted out for sale for us to buy up.


That, gentlemen, is the very definition of stagnation, if not regression.
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LOL and since Doom 4 has been in production for awile now... you know Doom 4 gonna suffer the same shit. (Console port)

IF AND ONLY IF THEY come out and say we're scrapping Doom 4 for the XBOX 360 or lowering settings but building it from the ground up will anyone believe Carmack. But he's just a money grabbing d-bag. Change your shit with Doom 4 Carmack or STFU!!
 
LOL and since Doom 4 has been in production for awile now... you know Doom 4 gonna suffer the same shit. (Console port)

IF AND ONLY IF THEY come out and say we're scrapping Doom 4 for the XBOX 360 or lowering settings but building it from the ground up will anyone believe Carmack. But he's just a money grabbing d-bag. Change your shit with Doom 4 Carmack or STFU!!

And where the hell is DEATHMATCH?!!?
 
I hate myself....dunno how i did this....I hate reading RAGE threads....I think...
 
dook43 said:
"PCs, although being an order of magnitude faster, still struggle to maintain framerate due to arms-length API issues"
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So why do the textures look so much better in Doom 3, and why does it run so smoothly? I don't think it's due to the difference in level of geometry, and even if it was, you could take advantage of tesselation to make the low-poly console models look better. Oh, that's right, consoles can't do that, and implemeting tesselation would require using a PC-only 'arms-length' API.

So being 10x more powerul doesn't offset the advantage of having a common API to develop for? You know, an API that makes your life easier by not having to reinvent the wheel all the time? We can't have that! What are we supposed to spend six years of development time on? Making the game fun? If I don't write everything from the bottom up all the time I won't be able to talk technobabble that makes the nerds shoot their wads. Don't be crazy!

This guy likes talking fast and taking advantage of his rep. Everyone assumes he knows what he's on about, but in reality the only stuff he can produce these days is way behind the curve. Everyone else's stuff looks way better, plays better, and tends to work better in general, even on consoles.

If fact, Rage on consoles even looks shit. I'm wondering if in reality he's planning for the 'future' by developing for iPad first. Go fuck yourself Carmack.

Oh, yeah. Padding every single sentence with 'in there' or 'on there' doesn't make the shit you spew any more intelligent. You just sound like an ultra-annoying freak. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ui4zp71oDcI
 
Mchart said:
Mobile gaming is the future, as is cloud computing. In the near future having a home PC will be the thing of the past. You'll have a terminal, and/or a handheld terminal.
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And I'll have a sex robot that makes me sandwiches and fly my car to work. How about we develop things for the present.
 
IronChef75 said:
I don't think it's due to the difference in level of geometry, and even if it was, you could take advantage of tesselation to make the low-poly console models look better. Oh, that's right, consoles can't do that, and implemeting tesselation would require using a PC-only 'arms-length' API.
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When did the Xbox360 lose the ability to tessellate?
 
And btw, quick reality check on all this "cloud = futurez man", lets look at the average internet connection speed of North Americans and the rate of resolution and texture increases.

Its to the point where HDMI cables aren't even cutting it in some circumstances to handle the video bandwith, and we're supposed to be streaming that across the country with instant lag free response? In the near future? Don't think so.

Heck, people now are already worried about being capped for watching too much netflix.
 
Ducman69 said:
And btw, quick reality check on all this "cloud = futurez man", lets look at the average internet connection speed of North Americans and the rate of resolution and texture increases.

Its to the point where HDMI cables aren't even cutting it in some circumstances to handle the video bandwith, and we're supposed to be streaming that across the country with instant lag free response? In the near future? Don't think so.

Heck, people now are already worried about being capped for watching too much netflix.
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HDMI has to do with Cloud because......
 
so i tried rage for the first time today. Really i dont see what the big deal is, the game looks and runs fine on my pc. I do notice the texture popping when turning quickly, but is it REALLY that big of a deal? Ive only played a few missions, but i thought it wasnt too bad. Def better than DNF haha.
 
Azhar said:
HDMI has to do with Cloud because......
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Lern2reed "Its to the point where HDMI cables aren't even cutting it in some circumstances to handle the video bandwith, and we're supposed to be streaming that across the country with instant lag free response? In the near future? Don't think so."
 
It has to do with one of the highest bandwidth standards at the moment and the person who claims that in the "near future" we will only use terminals.



Speaking now of the Megatexture use of idTech5 i am of the opinion that it failed majorly on the point of it's massive inefficiency. Give me tiled high resolution textures instead.

Another big fail is it's inability to add or remove little details with ease and, again, the resources it requires for development. This has been touched already, but honestly the process of generating the megatexture oughta be streamlined, and even then, we go back to the (in)efficiency of it all, as someone pointed out that their full quality development build of Rage at id's headquarters weighted close to 150GB...

Interesting concept all in all, but we aren't there yet, and who knows if we will ever get to it...
 
Fail said:
If you want a DEFINITE PC experience, then the correct course of action on the parts of ALL PC gamers would be to keep their wallets shut from developers who release half assed console ports, and only open them for games that come from PC centric developers.
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Thereby reinforcing the opinion of game developers that PC gaming is not worth much to them. I have not seen anyone complain/demand money back for RAGE on console.

To the developers the shitstorm that is happening on this site and many others, is good reason to stop developing for PC entirely.
 
Azhar said:
HDMI has to do with Cloud because......
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I believe the point was that some of the content out there demands enough bandwidth to even hit the limits of the HDMI cable (10.2Gbps), yet many people somehow think that we can keep upping the bandwidth demands on the Internet without running into problems with over-saturation; as if the Internet is some sort of limitless pipeline.

People are marketed into thinking that "the Cloud" is some sort of panacea, when it actually makes things worse with regard to over-saturation.

It's Friday, give the guy a break...
 
Ducman69 said:
Lern2reed "Its to the point where HDMI cables aren't even cutting it in some circumstances to handle the video bandwith, and we're supposed to be streaming that across the country with instant lag free response? In the near future? Don't think so."
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The bottleneck is the internet. Not network cables, not HDMI. I can read just fine. HDMI can handle a shitload of video bandwidth, more than what we're currently feeding it with (high bitrate 1080p).
 
gathagan said:
I believe the point was that some of the content out there demands enough bandwidth to even hit the limits of the HDMI cable (10.2Gbps), yet many people somehow think that we can keep upping the bandwidth demands on the Internet without running into problems with over-saturation; as if the Internet is some sort of limitless pipeline.

People are marketed into thinking that "the Cloud" is some sort of panacea, when it actually makes things worse with regard to over-saturation.

It's Friday, give the guy a break...
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He post a lot of regurgitated comments on this forum regarding technology. He's had plenty of breaks, Friday or no Friday.

But yeah, 10.2Gbps is more than enough bandwidth considering network upper limit is 1Gbps (at the consumer level anyways). So HDMI would not have any impact whatsoever by streaming movies from the Clouds anytime in the near future.
 
Brent_Justice said:
id is not what they use to be, they began on the PC platform, they made PC gaming what it is, they made the PC gaming community what it is, they made awesome PC games, utilizing the features of a computer, which do exceed any console system, to move away from their roots, is a bad idea, in my opinion, if they would put their weight behind the PC as a gaming platform it would be even more awesome, but instead, they have sold out, in my opinion, the focus has changed, id is no longer a PC gaming company, they are a console gaming company in my eyes, from this point forward, unless they can prove to me their focus has changed back, i am highly dissapointed in this trend, my opinion
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+1

Carmack was the one who solved the PC side scroll issue, now he goes console first?
Why produce decades of work and become one of the most reputable persons in gaming, just to give it all up for money.
Reputation is everything, and he lost that with me. As a consumer, I choose not to buy from id.

Conker said:
Just seeing how the game came out you could see Carmack is just a consolitis shill. Sheer lack of quality control on the pc side shows how dedicated he is to the pc. All he cares about is consoles now. Hes just giving us left overs so he can't make that extra little income. Carmack hasn't created anything good for over a decade anyways. Don't expect anything good from him in the future. His credibility is tarnished.
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+1

I refuse to purchase an inferior product because of a company's business decision.
I will refuse to say "consoles makes more money" or "going console is smart business", because they still want me to pay $59.99, no matter what platform the game is on.
It's ridiculous to see people justify devs/pubs decisions to make an inferior product, just because the money isn't on that platform. That's why they continue to do it folks! Because some of you think it's ok.

My message to Developers and Publishers:

If you game is for consoles and inferior on PC, keep it on consoles.
If your game is for PC and inferior on consoles, keep it on PC.
If you're actually going to put in the effort on all platforms to produce a quality product. Multiplatform is welcomed.

There's not a gaming community of any platform I know that wants to feel second rate.
 
DeschutesCore said:
When did the Xbox360 lose the ability to tessellate?
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Ok, tessalation that doesn't SUCK so hard that it is rarely ever used. Tessaltion that doesn't require multiple passes of vertex and pixel shader programs, extra memory usage for vertex buffers, CPU assistance AKA DirectX 9 level tesselation on a piss weak GPU. DirectX 11 and modern hardware tesselation doesn't suck.
 
Carmack clearly knows what he's on about, but I think what he likes to specialize in has become less relevant to game development compared to ten years ago, and certainly the markets he’s now catering to care far less about him and what he does. PC users care, or at least they used to before Rage hit. PC users were the ones listening to everything he said and treating it as gospel. PC users were the ones that gave him his rock star developer reputation. When he wants an ego trip, it seems to be the PC people that give it to him.

The purpose of developing a new game engine is to push things forward, and Rage certainly doesn't do that. After seeing Rage I'm not sure if Id Tech 5 in general does that. If anything it appears to be moving backwards. I wouldn’t be surprised if the whole purpose of Id Tech 5 was to create an engine capable of scaling down to the iPhone and iPad.

Carmack is a sellout. I don’t think anyone will give two shits about what he says now. He's making excuses because he chose to target consoles with Rage, the vast majority of his fans (the ones who know his name and have a chance of understanding what he does) aren’t happy, and his ego is having trouble dealing with his decisions. He’s losing his status as game developer God.

He needs to either accept his choices and stop acting like the legend he used to be, or be up front and say “see you in the App store” and fuck off. If he was honest from the start, this Rage debacle wouldn’t have occurred and I wouldn’t have been shocked to discover that MegaTexture™ meant less detail than a smear of shit.
 
I knew something like this would happen. I haven't touched an id game since Doom 3/Quake 4. Those games took up shelf space and I ended up throwing those games away because I needed to make room. Doom 3 was such a disappointment for me and I got burned even worse by Quake 4 so I just basically swore off any id games from there on out.
 
It's truly baffling that id completely ignored basic things like

- optimizing the game for current drivers
- providing video settings since not everyone can run the game at full spec
- calibrating the texture streaming so it's optimized for the platform

Having said that, these are in the big picture relatively minor issues. The game itself isn't broken.

Personally, I was on the fence about buying it because it just doesn't seem like that interesting of a game, or enough content, for $60. The technical issues were just the nail in the coffin telling me to wait for a few patches and a price drop.
 
Mchart said:
Mobile gaming is the future, as is cloud computing. In the near future having a home PC will be the thing of the past. You'll have a terminal, and/or a handheld terminal.
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A. If Mobile gaming is the future, then what will I do at home on my TV?
B. Cloud computing wouldn't work cause ISPs are starting to cap.
C. Could computing wouldn't be accepted due to privacy issues.
D. HTPC's will be the PC of the future, and tablets will seem like the gimmick devices they really are.
 
Azhar said:
The bottleneck is the internet. Not network cables, not HDMI. I can read just fine. HDMI can handle a shitload of video bandwidth, more than what we're currently feeding it with (high bitrate 1080p).
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No, actually, you can't read. Yes, the bottleneck is the internet. HDMI can handle a shitload of video bandwidth, and yet even HDMI is proving inadequate in some circumstances. Thus, if even HDMI is being taxed with current technology, then no way in hell are you going to stream that amount of data across the country anytime soon.
Ducman69 said:
"Its to the point where HDMI cables aren't even cutting it in some circumstances to handle the video bandwith, and we're supposed to be streaming that across the country with instant lag free response? In the near future? Don't think so."
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I can't connect the dots anymore than that, and since communication issues aside we agree that cloud gaming aint gunna happen because of the internet bottleneck, I'd say we can just leave it at that and call it a night, heh.
 
Ashbringer said:
D. HTPC's will be the PC of the future, and tablets will seem like the gimmick devices they really are.
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Amen, HTPCs are where its at.

Tablets have a place though too. I mounted one in my plane as I can't afford a glass panel, and it lets me run sophisticated flight software right at my fingertips where I have no room or time to be fiddling with peripherals. Working in the hospital, tablets are also quite popular among physicians, as there is a good reason that medical staff wear such comfortable shoes.

Tablets should be a niche product though, and I do laugh my ass off when I see someone carrying around an iPhone, an iPad, and a Macbook in their manpurse at Starbucks. That particular tablet isn't really doing anything you can't do on the iPhone, and yet isn't powerful or complete enough to function standalone without the Macbook and so is just total redundant fail.
 
redmasc said:
I knew something like this would happen. I haven't touched an id game since Doom 3/Quake 4. Those games took up shelf space and I ended up throwing those games away because I needed to make room. Doom 3 was such a disappointment for me and I got burned even worse by Quake 4 so I just basically swore off any id games from there on out.
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I actually enjoyed Doom 3. I thought it was a spooky, massively fun deathfest. The graphics at the time were really good. Just the game had no widescreen support at the time. (Had a 23 inch cinema display at the time.)

I picked up Quake 4 off of Ebay for $5.99 a few years back. Def a bad game.
 
The name of the game is RAGE and all you guys are raging. That's a success in my book.

Doom 3 was a fine game as long as you weren't expecting it to be run and gun like the previous Dooms (but it's called Doom so...). Doom 1 and Doom 3 are my favorite single player id games no lies (wait is doom 1 even technically id?).
 
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