AVSforumites rate the LG 32LD450 pretty highly as a pc monitor. There was a user there that did input lag tests and it rated as one of the best along with the 32EX400. I use it as a gaming tv and going from my old 5 year old 720p Westinghouse to this tv was a revelation. Much better colors and no noticeable input lag. The only issue I have are with the blacks as its not that good, probably on the level of my TN-film panel Samsung monitor.
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Is there a better 32" LCD-TV than the Sony 32EX400?
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AVSforumites rate the LG 32LD450 pretty highly as a pc monitor. There was a user there that did input lag tests and it rated as one of the best along with the 32EX400. I use it as a gaming tv and going from my old 5 year old 720p Westinghouse to this tv was a revelation. Much better colors and no noticeable input lag. The only issue I have are with the blacks as its not that good, probably on the level of my TN-film panel Samsung monitor.
Unfortunately, I believe the 550 and the 530 are more or less identical (internally). I've gathered from numerous sources that the only difference is additional connectivity, the Touch of Red bezel and some network functionality. Beyond that, they share the same panel and specs. I assume the 530 would suffer many of the same drawbacks, though I can't be 100% certain. Maybe if you opt for an SQ0* panel instead of the AUO? Maybe then the loss of contrast in PC mode won't be so noticeable thanks to the improved blacks, but you'll be dealing with (I'm told) even worse motion performance.
True. Having spent quality time with both the EX400 and now the AA01 C550, I can honestly say the MVA panel is decent ... though definitely not for PC use. I'd prefer the Sony or the Sammy for regular viewing of HD programs and movies, assuming the viewing angles aren't too extreme (as you say, bedroom viewing would be ideal). I don't consider shifting colors to be a major annoyance, but the fact that I notice it to the extent that I do with this panel indicates the shift is fairly pronounced in close quarters.
Being one of the AVSForumites frequenting the XXLD450 thread, I can vouch for that! ... right down to the poor black levels.
Thepoohcontinuum continues to be the most outspoken advocate of the 32LD450; he owns three in an Eyefinity config. Crazy. Truthfully, the crappy blacks and just-shy-of-perfect text are the only two complaints I can really level again the LG 32LD450. With proper grayscale calibration and decent room lighting, the weak black levels can be offset to the point where it's negligible. If you insist on a pitch black viewing environment, prepare to be disappointed. The situation will likely improve with the "D" version of LD450, but then you're stuck dealing with the same ol' MVA conundrum (evidence seems to suggest the "D" is either an MVA or something much, much worse).
The text will always be troublesome, but I barely notice it now that I'm accustomed and have the sharpness levels dialed in.
All in all, in the land of flawed LCD technology, the "W" (IPS) LG 32LD450 has a lot going for it. It might very well be the best of a bad situation.
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ive been following this thread as i research what the best 32" set would be for my uses and its been very helpful.
most of my media use will be through an htpc, so the pc performance of the tv is very important to me.
considering the impressions ive seen here, it sounds like LG 32LD450 is the best for that use, even considering its shortcomings.
I had been leaning towards the Samsung, but i was looking for more user impressions, so im glad i waited.
Is the panel lottery a concern with the LG model? Ive read the issues, but is that enough to not choose that model over others?
most of my media use will be through an htpc, so the pc performance of the tv is very important to me.
considering the impressions ive seen here, it sounds like LG 32LD450 is the best for that use, even considering its shortcomings.
I had been leaning towards the Samsung, but i was looking for more user impressions, so im glad i waited.
Is the panel lottery a concern with the LG model? Ive read the issues, but is that enough to not choose that model over others?
Yup, there's a panel lotto with the LGs. I believe there are as many as three different panels in circulation, but only two are common. It's a fairly simple matter to determine which panel you're getting as the product code sticker on the side of the set and the side of the box it's packed in should display accurate info. There will be a slew of numbers and letters, but the section you're interested in will look something like this: UA.CCCWLH
The "W" is what you want assuming you're after an S-IPS panel and not the mystery *VA (which would be labeled with a "D" instead of "W"). This seems to be a relatively accurate method of selecting a panel, though maybe not 100% full proof. There's a fella in the AVS thread I linked earlier convinced he has a *VA panel in a set labeled "W" ... maybe not 100%, but it's your best bet.
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Couple more issues with the 550:
1. I officially rescind my assertion that the viewing angles aren't "all that bad". Compared side by side with the LD450, the MVA panel in Samsung looks terrible. Whereas the LG retains the majority of it's contrast from a horizontal off-angle, the Sammy washes out. The LG suffers if you view it from the side AND above, at which point it shats the contrast bed on every level, but thankfully I can't think of a good reason to view the television from an elevated off-angle. The Samsung C550 SQ0* with a PVA panel might buck this trend, but I haven't tested it and can't say for sure. Again, this isn't a huge concern if you intend to use it as a PC monitor 99% of the time, but it's worth noting for some.
2. I spent some time with a number of basic LCD Lagom test images last night, mostly concerning myself with black level, white saturation and banding. While both perform relatively well, the LG provides a more natural rise from black and a more pleasing transition to pure white (imo). The LG also suffers far less banding after calibration, though I still struggle to completely eliminate banding on either model. I find the colors to be more natural on the LG. Both the EX400 and the C550 seem more garish, even after achieving an ideal 6500k with my i1D2. Chalk that up to personal preference, I suppose.
Believe me, I really wanted to love the C550. I had the LD450 box ready to go with all the odd and ends and packing materials primed for return. I'm not looking for things to hate about this set, they just keep poppin' up like a leering whack-a-mole. I'm convinced the SQ0* PVA model would likely address many of my grievances, but as it still requires a manual switch to PC mode to achieve proper 4:4:4, and the loss of contrast that accompanies it, I'm hesitant to make the effort. Add to that inferior motion performance compared to the AA0* panel and it dangles from the bottom of the shortlist ...
1. I officially rescind my assertion that the viewing angles aren't "all that bad". Compared side by side with the LD450, the MVA panel in Samsung looks terrible. Whereas the LG retains the majority of it's contrast from a horizontal off-angle, the Sammy washes out. The LG suffers if you view it from the side AND above, at which point it shats the contrast bed on every level, but thankfully I can't think of a good reason to view the television from an elevated off-angle. The Samsung C550 SQ0* with a PVA panel might buck this trend, but I haven't tested it and can't say for sure. Again, this isn't a huge concern if you intend to use it as a PC monitor 99% of the time, but it's worth noting for some.
2. I spent some time with a number of basic LCD Lagom test images last night, mostly concerning myself with black level, white saturation and banding. While both perform relatively well, the LG provides a more natural rise from black and a more pleasing transition to pure white (imo). The LG also suffers far less banding after calibration, though I still struggle to completely eliminate banding on either model. I find the colors to be more natural on the LG. Both the EX400 and the C550 seem more garish, even after achieving an ideal 6500k with my i1D2. Chalk that up to personal preference, I suppose.
Believe me, I really wanted to love the C550. I had the LD450 box ready to go with all the odd and ends and packing materials primed for return. I'm not looking for things to hate about this set, they just keep poppin' up like a leering whack-a-mole. I'm convinced the SQ0* PVA model would likely address many of my grievances, but as it still requires a manual switch to PC mode to achieve proper 4:4:4, and the loss of contrast that accompanies it, I'm hesitant to make the effort. Add to that inferior motion performance compared to the AA0* panel and it dangles from the bottom of the shortlist ...
alxnet2003
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Told ya.
Manufacturers used to actually care about viewing angles on large TVs. I mean, who the hell would want a group of friends over only to have the middle two in the group seeing a perfect picture while everyone else sees shifting contrast and colors?
It's nuts to think that Sony and others are slowly starting to use MVA panels, especially on the larger TV's (Sony's 46EX710). I love my larger IPS and PVA TVs. Can't stand my Sony 32EX710 which has an MVA panel.
The bean counters are taking over.
Told ya.
Manufacturers used to actually care about viewing angles on large TVs. I mean, who the hell would want a group of friends over only to have the middle two in the group seeing a perfect picture while everyone else sees shifting contrast and colors?
It's nuts to think that Sony and others are slowly starting to use MVA panels, especially on the larger TV's (Sony's 46EX710). I love my larger IPS and PVA TVs. Can't stand my Sony 32EX710 which has an MVA panel.
The bean counters are taking over.
It's why I normally suggest plasma for most furniture arrangements I've seen...
My TV's in the corner with couches around it. It's a rear projection DLP, because I wanted the size. Looks a bit better front and center, but still good from all angles...
My main 50" is a plasma, stuck in a corner with seating at all angles. Because of the seating arrangement (no real alternative), I'll be sticking with plasma for primary viewing until the technology dies or is soundly defeated by LCD advancement. I always suggest plasma to anyone with legitimate viewing angle concerns. The Panasonic G20's are my go-to recommendation for 2010.
seanclayton
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There are many better T.Vs out there than the Sony.
Firstly, 4:4:4 is one of the most important factor for use with a PC. Because if the T.V does not support 4:4:4 chroma, the texts are most of the time blurry. As of right now, most of LG and Sharp T.V supports 4:4:4, whereas Sony and Samsung are limited. For short, I would avoid any Sony or Samsung T.V if the main purpose is to serve as a monitor.
Additionally, when in use with Game or PC mode, Sony and Samsung T.Vs are notorious for extra input lag (20ms extra on average) with Samsung being the worse.
Firstly, 4:4:4 is one of the most important factor for use with a PC. Because if the T.V does not support 4:4:4 chroma, the texts are most of the time blurry. As of right now, most of LG and Sharp T.V supports 4:4:4, whereas Sony and Samsung are limited. For short, I would avoid any Sony or Samsung T.V if the main purpose is to serve as a monitor.
Additionally, when in use with Game or PC mode, Sony and Samsung T.Vs are notorious for extra input lag (20ms extra on average) with Samsung being the worse.
I was not aware of that issue until recently. Maybe most TV's were full color resolution, 4:4:4, processing RGB internally, but not newer ones? I know I had heard that Samsung rear projection DLPs were RGB internally, but then some newer sets not...are now 4:2:2 or something like that....
alxnet2003
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That's good to know. They must've improved some on the newer Bravia3's then. The Sony 32EX710 had razor sharp and easily legible text via HDMI. My only problem with using this as a PC monitor was the dang contrast shifting at slight angles thanks to the MVA panel. But small and large text were easy on the eyes, even more so than the 40" Sharp I used to have.
Despite my overall love for the LD450, I've boxed it up and sent it back.
It's a great television, especially for general PC use and gaming, but the terrible black level is too much of a drawback for me. Even if I sacrifice my whites and dim the pictue, I'm still barely into 0.1cd/m2 territory. If gaming were my only requirement I'd have zero problems with the LG, but as soon as Blu-ray enters the picture the poor contrast really detracts from my enjoyment. It's a shame, because otherwise the LG is damn near perfect.
Still, I stand behind my observations. If you want an HDTV for PC use (especially gaming) and you can look beyond mediocre black level performance, the IPS LD450 is probably the best option available.
I haven't given up. There's still one final candidate to consider: the Toshiba 32e200u. It's a bit of a black horse in the competition, but worth a look. No idea who manufactures the panel; not even sure what the panel type is. Toshiba is the only company to recognize "input lag" as a thing, which is nice. User reviews are very positive, black levels are supposedly very good. Several users report excellent text quality when connected to a PC via HDMI (grain of salt: taken). The big question mark is 4:4:4 performance and responsiveness. Not sure when I'll get around to testing one out but it's definitely on my radar.
It's a great television, especially for general PC use and gaming, but the terrible black level is too much of a drawback for me. Even if I sacrifice my whites and dim the pictue, I'm still barely into 0.1cd/m2 territory. If gaming were my only requirement I'd have zero problems with the LG, but as soon as Blu-ray enters the picture the poor contrast really detracts from my enjoyment. It's a shame, because otherwise the LG is damn near perfect.
Still, I stand behind my observations. If you want an HDTV for PC use (especially gaming) and you can look beyond mediocre black level performance, the IPS LD450 is probably the best option available.
I haven't given up. There's still one final candidate to consider: the Toshiba 32e200u. It's a bit of a black horse in the competition, but worth a look. No idea who manufactures the panel; not even sure what the panel type is. Toshiba is the only company to recognize "input lag" as a thing, which is nice. User reviews are very positive, black levels are supposedly very good. Several users report excellent text quality when connected to a PC via HDMI (grain of salt: taken). The big question mark is 4:4:4 performance and responsiveness. Not sure when I'll get around to testing one out but it's definitely on my radar.
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Not liking the looks of "150 degree" viewing angle in the link for that Toshiba. If it's IPS/VA it should be 178, right?
Good luck on your hunt, Deeky. Though, I'm doubtful you're going to be able to find that gem that you're looking for with anything currently available. As you've said before each technology has it's drawbacks that will leave you with some of your criteria unfulfilled. I hope I'm wrong about this, though.
BTW, I'm thinking of hopping into the 47LD450. Do you know if this size has the same panel lotto going on as the rest of the 450 line?
SJetski71
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It does seem promising, definitely curious to hear how it pans out.
Probably going to get lambasted for this but I'm going to suggest maybe taking a look at this 32" Vizio LED. It appears to be an IPS with the 178° viewing angle. It is in my local Target add for 399.00 this week.
Good reviews on Amazon, but not much in the way at Avsforums. I'm going to go down and take a look at it and see what I think. If I like it I'll post some unboxing pics and some settings for it.
Good reviews on Amazon, but not much in the way at Avsforums. I'm going to go down and take a look at it and see what I think. If I like it I'll post some unboxing pics and some settings for it.
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Archaea
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the 32le5300 is now $469 at amazon. I'd go with LG over the Vizio any day of the week.
SJetski71
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Many here based their purchased on previous reports, you however will be the guinea pig this time
Always interested in hearing feedback on lesser known/newer LCD TV's though, especially since everyone is now on the hunt for proper 4:4:4 support, and the usual low input lag.
But like i said in that hot deal thread, 178 degree viewing angles can also mean it has a VA panel, which Vizio heavily uses. Vizio's 47" LCD's have IPS panels because only LG makes panels that specific size (S-IPS).
Good luck either way, hopefully you have a winner.
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I was thinking about exchanging my 37LD450 for the EX400, but the Sony's lack of 4:4:4, smaller size, smaller size, and less accurate color changed my mind. The Sony does have excellent color reproduction for an MVA panel though: http://www.televisioninfo.com/content/Sony-Kdl-40ex400/Tour-amp;-Design.htm
Most of the Samsung models, OTOH, are horrible for color fidelity...amazing blacks though.
Most of the Samsung models, OTOH, are horrible for color fidelity...amazing blacks though.
Many here based their purchased on previous reports, you however will be the guinea pig this time
Always interested in hearing feedback on lesser known/newer LCD TV's though, especially since everyone is now on the hunt for proper 4:4:4 support, and the usual low input lag.
But like i said in that hot deal thread, 178 degree viewing angles can also mean it has a VA panel, which Vizio heavily uses. Vizio's 47" LCD's have IPS panels because only LG makes panels that specific size (S-IPS).
Good luck either way, hopefully you have a winner.
I ended up skipping both the LG and the Vizio. Been looking for a 30" 2560 monitor for a while and found one on craigslist here in fort collins. Will be going and checking it out tomorrow. If that doesn't pan out I'll go back and check them out some more. See if I can hook up my laptop to them hehe.
Archaea
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The Toshiba 32e200u is on sale today for $350 at amazon. Has anyone tried it?
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based on this review --- I bought one! I hope the guy knows what he was talking about.
http://www.amazon.com/review/R1KIIRYQRFHYYD/ref=cm_cr_pr_viewpnt#R1KIIRYQRFHYYD
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I threw in the towel on the TV-monitor struggle before I took a chance on the Tosh. Too many purchases and returns, starting to get ridiculous. That said, I've read several sources claiming the input lag on the 200u is quite poor ... but who knows? It's so subjective. On the up side, it apparently has killer blacks and a very good PC mode with excellent text. Let us know what you think. If it manages even 32ms lag, it might be the best option if PQ is a genuine concern.
coolhandm3
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Why not look at the Sony 32NSX-GT1 tv?? It looks like the Apple monitor with glass and looks very good! The static contrast was rated at 4650:1 !!! I tried it out many times at Best Buy and to me its between this and the 27 Cinema Display. The only issue with the Sony is text quality, if you set the tv to graphics mode the text is very good but not nearly as good as the Apple Cinema Display :/
Archaea
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The LG 32LE5300 had a bit of noticiable mouse lag in games and even a tad bit on the windows desktop. That's really unacceptable to me. If I detect anything like that on this toshiba - it's going back lickety split!
I did overnight shipping. It will arrive tomorrow. I'll update the post with my subjective opinion. Deeky - what did you decide upon?
Archaea
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C-Net rates it so-so picture quality. Sony NSX-32GT1 (Google TV)
http://reviews.cnet.com/flat-panel-tvs/sony-nsx-46gt1-google/4652-6482_7-34109116.html
I didn't. I gave up and went back to my HP LP2475w. The Tosh was my last ditch consideration, but I never did get around to it.
Archaea
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Try it. 350 today and free shipping at amazon. Free returns. You have nothing to lose and d I'd value your opinion on it since you've seen so many to compare it to. I ordered one today. It shipped and is scheduled to arrive tomorrow. I can only compare it to the lg and panasonic yhough.
Archaea
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It came in about an hour ago. With sharpness on 1 it is nearly perfect text. The colors I've not yet got completely calibrated to my liking, but the text is better than the LG 32le5300 and the panasonic 37U22 that I've recently tried. The text is almost almost almost perfect. With the default sharpness setting of 10 --- it looked bad - worse than the best calibration I could manage on the 37u22. But at sharpness of 1 it makes the text look really quite satisfactory. 0 makes the text a bit blurry as of my initial impressions. Definately impressed so far. Now to get these colors figured out and see about input lag by playing some games. (no noticable lag on the desktop at this point.)
The LG left a white streak behind my finger when I moved it against the screen - indicating it was a MA panel. The Panasonic left no streak behind my finger when I moved it against the screen indicating IPS panel. This moniter leaves a dark streak behind my finger when I move it???? -- What kind of panel is that? Off angle viewing on the toshiba is 100% acceptable.
The LG left a white streak behind my finger when I moved it against the screen - indicating it was a MA panel. The Panasonic left no streak behind my finger when I moved it against the screen indicating IPS panel. This moniter leaves a dark streak behind my finger when I move it???? -- What kind of panel is that? Off angle viewing on the toshiba is 100% acceptable.
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Archaea
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I played some far cry 2. I cannot notice any lag on this monitor. I don't have the tools to do a proper lag test, but subjectively I can't feel any and I DID feel some on the LG 32LE5300. This feels a bit smoother than the panasonic too, but I couldn't really perceive any lag on th panasonic either. I do feel this is a bit more accurate in FPS games than the panasonic some how or another. The panasonic in far cry 2 -- it seemed that I was never really able to easily shoot someone at a distance scoped in. I was either to the left or the right. On this toshiba monitor it's spot accurate and I was surprised how easily I was shooing the foes. Nothing else changed so I don't have any explanation for this. No different drivers, no different hardware -- nothing. I just feel my mouse is a bit more accurate on this Toshiba in game mode than it is on the 37u22 panasonic, however I wasn't really able to perceive lag on the panasonic either. This is by far my favorite of the three so far.
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Archaea
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Deeky - I think you may have missed the boat on the monitor. I'll put my calibration settings in here when I get them perfected. It's quite nice. Even the smaller text on hard-forum where it shows post count and 2[H]4U type lettering underneath the poster's name that always was blurred with the other LCD's looks good on this toshiba! I just about agree with that guy on amazon who says this thing has CRT sharp text.
D
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I saw one of these at a local electronics store today and was blown away. They had it hooked up to a computer running Just Cause 2 and it looked gorgeous. I alt tabbed to the desktop and was further amazed at the clarity of text. Needless to say, when I got home, I placed an order through Amazon and am anxiously waiting for it to arrive. Can't wait to see your calibration settings!
I'm comfused. I've been out of the monitor loop a while. If that Toshiba is so awesome...why is it so cheap? What is the catch? I need a monitor for HDMI out from my lap top for movies and internet and for a PS3 - that's all. Is that Toshiba the way to go?
Archaea
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from my experience with the LG and Panasonic - absolutely! The toshiba is the superior model hands down for use as a PC monitor --- simply cause text can be soo good! Black levels are good, colors are good, and text is nearly as good as a monitor. Close enough that it doesn't bother me and I am picky!
Archaea
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unknown.
I will say that the bluray movies on this toshiba 32e200u are not quite as spectacular as the LG and Panasonic. (just watched some avatar)
It looks good, just not quite as good. I guess you win some and you loose some. It is still by far the best for PC monitor use and as that is my primary purchase intent - it fits my bill.
I will say that the bluray movies on this toshiba 32e200u are not quite as spectacular as the LG and Panasonic. (just watched some avatar)
It looks good, just not quite as good. I guess you win some and you loose some. It is still by far the best for PC monitor use and as that is my primary purchase intent - it fits my bill.
Any chance we can get pics of this setup in action?
I've been interested in getting a new display for awhile but always miss out of the Dell U2311H deals. This TV sounds like it has some potential as well.