Kyle.. Why don't you review Apple products?

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christianw

Limp Gawd
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This site has been critical of apple pretty much since day one. Sure you've touted that their phones are nice in the past. You've liked their displays here and there. But the [H] has never really taken any official stance on their products or given them the "HardOcp" full battery of tough and critical tests.

This Apple forum has been here for a long time, and correct me if im wrong but you've never really taken these products thru their paces.

So I have a suggestion. Grab an Imac and give it a torture test the only way you and Brent can. In the past youve done things like this when people have pointed the bias finger. It's allowed you to say "See no bias here, your products have issues buddy".

I'd really like to see you, and the site take those opportunities when it comes to apple.

A lot of us here scratch our heads at the fact that theres even an apple forum on the site. I know myself, i've always hoped it meant that you would figure out a way to work their content into the site (kind of like how you had hard consumer, and hard console for a while).

So what do you think? Think you might give it a go?

I eagerly await your response (And steve and brent feel free to ring in on this one as well).

- me
 
It probably depends who they have contacts with and Apple is Apple. They don't cater much to enthusiast like most products reviewed on here do.
 
I mean zero offense to anyone that will read this but, owning a prepackaged personal computer that has effectively no chance of any hardware customization outside of actually choosing the components from the factory itself could never be considered [H]ard, in my opinion.

I know that Dell, HP, etc etc offers customization to the extremes as long as you've got the money, but with respect to Apple they aren't meant for that, not even the much vaunted Mac Pro desktops could ever reach even a small modicum of those other OEMs in terms of actual customization. They are of course the only truly customizable Apple products of any kind, actually - at least from the enthusiast perspective going [H]ardcore on it. The iMacs are made from laptop components, the laptops are too so, not much you can do but alter the RAM and the storage on either.

Kyle would be the one that I'd say has the final word on whether something is [H]ard or not as this place (this forum) is his baby as I understand it. Based on what I've read over the years, I simply can't imagine anyone looking at Apple products as "enthusiast" in any way, shape, or form.

As to the existence of this subforum, well, there's gotta be something I suppose. ;)
 
Gaming hardware/hardware tweaking site... Apple iMac. LOL no.
 
I mean zero offense to anyone that will read this but, owning a prepackaged personal computer that has effectively no chance of any hardware customization outside of actually choosing the components from the factory itself could never be considered [H]ard, in my opinion.

+1, nor should they be considered.
 
Because Macs are kind of... [L]imp?

:D

In all seriousness [H] is targeted at the builder type enthusiasts. All they seem to review is components. I don't see any Dell or Lenovo reviews here either. It is all parts. As such, a Mac review wouldn't make sense. That is a whole system, not a part.

As for the pats with Macs, well that is simply an apple issue. They either are or are not compatible. Doesn't change the validity of the review either way.

Macs are for when you want a computer dictated to you. You want a company to tell you the features, the software, and so on that you will have with very little choice. You want a pre packaged unit.

HardOCP is when you want to make your own computer. You want to build everything, tinker around with all the parts. You are interested in knowing how all the given components would work in your setup. It is also for if you wish to upgrade a computer. you have part X, you might like to buy part Y and you'd like to know how that part performs.
 
They stopped reviewing OEM systems when they closed [H] Consumer.
 
There are about a billion freaking Mac review sites out there, and it would be very difficult to offer something different than all of them do. It's been amazingly clear that Kyle wants to offer something unique here, and not just regurgitated stock benchmarks and what not. This is an enthusiast website, and while many apple products are fantastic at what they do, from the general perspective of this website they're boring as hell.

They're just barely upgradeable, and outside of intense artistic applications, there's no point as your C2D Mac will render webpages as quickly as your I5 Mac.

While I know you can game on a mac, given that you can attain a comparable gaming experience on a PC that's typically 1/4th the price of the mac, reviewing their gaming potential just seems stupid.

The fact that Apple products aren't reviewed here is not an indication of bias against apple, it's just that apple doesn't offer anything that is in line with the type of content offered here. I think that when they day comes that you can build your own Mac (legally) and it offers anything other than a sub-par gaming experience, you just might see a [H] review of one.
 
Because there's no point in reviewing Apple products; their fanboys will just buy them no matter what you say ;)

Okay, in all seriousness, the other people in this thread are probably right in that this site doesn't really cater to the prebuilt/preconfigured machines Apple produces. However, I do think, with the expansion of Steam on to the Mac platform, it would be cool to see some of the gaming performance reviews include the MBP and iMacs for games offered on both platforms.
 
They don't review hardware from other OEMs, its simple. Count on component analysis for DIY builds, that's it.

If you want good reviews of Mac products (and pretty much everything else), there is Anand, The Tech Report, Ars Technica, etc etc.
 
thanks for the intelligent replies

if i remember correclty, kyle has made exceptions for certain consumer products like being one of the first to water cool an xbox or xbox360.

there are also water cooling possibilities in the imac and mac pro for sure.

im fine with those people that dismiss apple products. but only when theyve actually taken the time use one. but in my opinion, if you spend time with these products, youll come to completely appreciate them as a fantastic unix based platform.

Anand La Shimpi has made a habit over the last few years to slap in apple product reviews and his data has always been extremely helpful and insightful.

because of the kind of technical analysis that anand does, i think that theres room for a "kyle style" review and analysis of the products and platform.
 
Anand does excellent and incredibly thorough analysis of Apple products, same with Tech Report and Ars. That said, those sites have much broader hardware and editorial coverage than [H]. If you want in-depth analysis on those other things, I suggest you go there instead.

Anandtech especially does such a great and beyond-thorough analysis on everything, Apple products included. Their notebook comparisons in particular are so good. I really don't see a reason to want the same from [H] when their editorial and review focus is so narrow in comparison.
 
Anand does excellent and incredibly thorough analysis of Apple products, same with Tech Report and Ars. That said, those sites have much broader hardware and editorial coverage than [H]. If you want in-depth analysis on those other things, I suggest you go there instead.

Anandtech especially does such a great and beyond-thorough analysis on everything, Apple products included. Their notebook comparisons in particular are so good. I really don't see a reason to want the same from [H] when their editorial and review focus is so narrow in comparison.

because kyle, brent, and steve aren't afraid of saying the things about a product most people are. i think that kind of opinion, is important.
 
because kyle, brent, and steve aren't afraid of saying the things about a product most people are. i think that kind of opinion, is important.

Are you forgetting that Apple is the kind of company that offers early access of certain devices to journalists in return for positive articles on said product. The ipad for example was given to a very select few before launch, Apple is the single pickiest company out there and they will continually go back to "journalists" that have given them positive press in the past.
 
Are you forgetting that Apple is the kind of company that offers early access of certain devices to journalists in return for positive articles on said product. The ipad for example was given to a very select few before launch, Apple is the single pickiest company out there and they will continually go back to "journalists" that have given them positive press in the past.

im not forgetting. thats one of the reasons i think reviews from people like kyle and brent are so important.

as an apple enthusiast, i dont feel i can get an honest review out of most sites. there are a couple exceptions, but thats it, just a couple exceptions.

i KNOW i would get 100% unfiltered truth out of kyle.
 
We don't review OEM systems. If that looks like it is going to change, we will give Apple consideration.
Posted via [H] Mobile Device
 
because kyle, brent, and steve aren't afraid of saying the things about a product most people are. i think that kind of opinion, is important.

Right, but that opinion only extends to components and are in aid of DIY builds. It is a very specific focus compared to most other tech websites and one that I do not expect nor desire to change anytime soon.
 
There's always room for *User* reviews on the forums too.
I'm sure they'd have no problem with that, as it's pretty much the case already.


As for the comment earlier about Prebuilt being Limp. I have dozens of custom built machines around the house and my main rig is a Mac Pro, Dual Quad core, 12gb ram, four 1tb Hd's and a 5870 (had two but it was overkill!). It's powering three 24" monitors and as far as I can tell those specs are pretty Damn [H]ard by comparison. (i'll give you limp for the factory video card and OSX driver support)

But I also realize that my system fits in existing categories though so nothing extra is needed. I can contribute to the video card forums, the dually threads, the Apple threads, Display threads. Entirely because at the end of the day and OS aside it's a Computer. :)


[H]'s been a great place for information and while there aren't OEM reviews i'm pretty sure you can find the answer to any OEM question you'd have.
 
As for the comment earlier about Prebuilt being Limp. I have dozens of custom built machines around the house and my main rig is a Mac Pro, Dual Quad core, 12gb ram, four 1tb Hd's and a 5870 (had two but it was overkill!). It's powering three 24" monitors and as far as I can tell those specs are pretty Damn [H]ard by comparison. (i'll give you limp for the factory video card and OSX driver support)

But I also realize that my system fits in existing categories though so nothing extra is needed. I can contribute to the video card forums, the dually threads, the Apple threads, Display threads. Entirely because at the end of the day and OS aside it's a Computer. :)

But even a Pro is more limited than a comparable machine. To get the simplest things which would work on a Dell Precision T7400 / HP xw8600 out of the box for your gen, and the Z800 / T7500 for my Nehalem Pros' equivalents involves a lot of hackery and it may even feel like some sort of achievement - but the fact remains that even the prebuilt Windows equivalents are far more flexible and versatile (not to mention far more reliable under sustained load in more hostile ambients).

In other words, even the Pro embraces the Apple ethos. It is one of the quietest (at idle - under load, not so much) dual-xeon machines you can buy. It's also the least capable, and most limited - and more a glorified home computer than the professional workstation it purports to be, at least if you stack it up alongside other actually professional workstations.

In terms of coercing the system to be something it isn't, I guess it's worthy of coverage on [H] as a user topic as an ingenious hack. The machines themselves for review? Perhaps we can leave that to the 'runs for 9 hours' Apple-assimilated Shimpi :rolleyes:
 
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As for the comment earlier about Prebuilt being Limp. I have dozens of custom built machines around the house and my main rig is a Mac Pro, Dual Quad core, 12gb ram, four 1tb Hd's and a 5870 (had two but it was overkill!). It's powering three 24" monitors and as far as I can tell those specs are pretty Damn [H]ard by comparison. (i'll give you limp for the factory video card and OSX driver support)

Call me when that 5870 and those monitors can run under OSX, or when you can run those dual quad's 1mhz over stock speed. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=914512

edit: Support does look imminent. :) http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=958191&page=8
 
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Cause this is [H]ardOCP not the psychiatrists office
 
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I've changed my mind. I hope to see reviews because the reactions from hyper-sensitive, one atom thick skin people would be hilarious. :D
 
Call me when that 5870 and those monitors can run under OSX, or when you can run those dual quad's 1mhz over stock speed. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=914512

edit: Support does look imminent. :) http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=958191&page=8

If you note my comment I agreed with the lack of Video card support under OSX.
That link is promising though. : )

As far as overclocking, I'm not aware of any Dual Xeon "Nehalem" boards that support overclocking. Not saying there aren't any, i'm just not aware of one.

Either way, I still use Windows 7 for Gaming : )
 
i KNOW i would get 100% unfiltered truth out of kyle.

Well as the saying goes, be careful of what you wish for, you might just get it. I suspect that HardOCPs reviews of Apple's stuff would not be that favourable. It is rather expensive for what you get, and value is certainly considered here, and of course [H] focuses on gaming. Macs are extremely ill suited to gaming in more than a few ways. So, likely they would not look that favourably upon the products.

If you are a fan, that may not be what you are interested in. Fans usually want things to confirm their viewpoint. They already want to buy something, because they are a fan of it, they simply want some reassurance that it ok.

Macs are just not strong in the areas that [H] is interested in, and as such are not likely to be looked upon well. That doesn't necessarily mean they aren't good at other areas, just that they aren't good for what [H] is about.
 
I like Macs, and use Apple products, but I think it would be a stretch to consider them [H]ard :p
 
I would think that Apple would probably think twice about having Kyle review any products from them.

I say this because most of Kyle's follower's know he tells the whole truth and nothing but the truth. sometimes big corporations like Apple don't always like that.
 
I would think that Apple would probably think twice about having Kyle review any products from them.

I say this because most of Kyle's follower's know he tells the whole truth and nothing but the truth. sometimes big corporations like Apple don't always like that.

Unlike that tool Anand who has his nose up Apples ass. His Apple reviews are like Consumer Reports Past Toyota reviews where they would give them great reliability scores based on reputation.

Don't you guys have enough Apple review sites already? Except for a couple of confused Apple fans nobody here gives a shit.
 
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