Advice on XP Pro X64

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sohosources

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Oct 7, 2006
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Hi, Gang:

I'm finally building a set of manly PCs to replace my now-long-in-the-tooth desktops.

My productivity PC, which runs multiple VMs and handles TV and video playback, printing and video editing, scanning, etc -- but no serious gaming, only casual -- will run an i7-930 with 6-12 GB of Mushkin DDR3, an ASUS Rampage II GENE MB, a Silverstone 850-W modular PS, an eVGA 8600GT, a small SSD for the boot drive and a pair of 500-GB drives (maybe in RAID 0) for storing VM images and local files (everything else in on a server).

I'm thinking about running Win 7 64-bit or Ubuntu 64-bit, but my geek buddies want me to run Win XP Pro X64. (They HATE Win7...while I'm merely neutral about it so far.)

What d'ya think about that? Is X64 nearing end-of-life? Is it too much of a hassle? Other issues I'm not considering?

I have an Action Pack X64 key that I can use...and I have Ubuntu...but I don't have a long-term Win 7 (other than the 90-day Corporate Eval).

I'm kinda anal...but my "Host OS" only goes online to visit Windows Update every now and again, so it stays VERY CLEAN. All other work is done in several Win XP VMs generally dedicated to one big task or another. One for web browsing...one for accounting software...one for flatbed and film scanners (so I don't have to kludge up my host OS with 50,000 TWAIN drivers and other junk, etc)...one for desktop publishing...and so on. If a VM gets corrupted or virused to death...I just roll in a recent snapshot or a backup and I don't have to reload my whole PC and tons of software.

All of my work files are stored on a server, so it's not difficult to use day to day.

My "gaming and fooling around PC" has removable boot drives so I can fart around with Linux, Hackintosh, eComstation and Windows XP (or Windows Whatever) for gaming. It will run an i5-750 with 4-8 GB RAM on an MSI GD45 (P55) MB, my old Antec Trio 650 PS, and a 5770 vid card (I game at 1680x1050 or 1920x1080 max), so no need for SLI, multiple gaming monitors, etc.

I have several XP Home COAs...and I may get a Win 7 COA just for DirectX 11 on the gaming box...but I'm really not DirectX crazed. Give me fast frame rates and DirectX 9.0C and I'm good to go.

Thoughts?

Thanks in advance,

--KK in MN
 
I'm just curious, but why would your so-called-geek friends hate Windows 7, the best Windows workstation version ever released? That would be an absolute crime to install an old, outdated OS on that system, like Windows XP x64. Frankly speaking, I wouldn't listen to an ounce of advice those "geek buddies" tell you about anything computer related, if they are honestly telling you to avoid Windows 7.

For the record, x64 isn't nearing the end of its life, it is becoming the standard. XP x64 is pretty much at the end of its life, and that makes me severaly question the knowledge of these geeks buddies. On such new hardware, do you really think hardware manufacturers are going to put much effort into optimizing drivers for a 9 year old OS, or its X64 variant that was never really meant for consumer use to being with? I bet your geek buddies didn't tell you that.

I'm not going to get into the Windows vs Linux debate, as for that I'll just tell you to pick the one that fits your needs. But if you are considering Windows for that system, Windows 7 x64 should be your only choice.
 
Stay away from XP 64 at this point, it just isn't worth the hassle. It was surpassed by Vista 64 in every way and 7 doesn't even make it worth considering at all.
 
DeaconFrost said:
I'm just curious, but why would your so-called-geek friends hate Windows 7, the best Windows workstation version ever released? That would be an absolute crime to install an old, outdated OS on that system, like Windows XP x64. Frankly speaking, I wouldn't listen to an ounce of advice those "geek buddies" tell you about anything computer related, if they are honestly telling you to avoid Windows 7.

For the record, x64 isn't nearing the end of its life, it is becoming the standard. XP x64 is pretty much at the end of its life, and that makes me severaly question the knowledge of these geeks buddies. On such new hardware, do you really think hardware manufacturers are going to put much effort into optimizing drivers for a 9 year old OS, or its X64 variant that was never really meant for consumer use to being with? I bet your geek buddies didn't tell you that.

I'm not going to get into the Windows vs Linux debate, as for that I'll just tell you to pick the one that fits your needs. But if you are considering Windows for that system, Windows 7 x64 should be your only choice.
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darkpaw said:
Stay away from XP 64 at this point, it just isn't worth the hassle. It was surpassed by Vista 64 in every way and 7 doesn't even make it worth considering at all.
Click to expand...

Exactly right. I too experimented with XP x64 when I got 8GB of RAM and TBH it wasn't the glorious XP-on-steroids that I expected it to be. Even if it had been, like the others have said it isn't worth it. It recognized all 8GB of my RAM, and that was cool, but other than that it did come with a lot of headaches (mainly stemming from not being widely supported) and I'd be hard pressed to give you a list of things that it does better than the 64-bit variants of Vista and 7. I'm sure XP64 has a niche market but really...with that hardware you need to be going with Win7 x64 (or Vista x64 at a minimum). Install XP x64 if you're curious, but I'd avoid it as a primary OS at this point.
 
I'd be interested in knowing what these friends hate about Windows 7 as well. Do they have some good reasons, or is it just something like not liking the new taskbar? I can't imagine any significant advantage XP 64 would have over Windows 7 at this point.
 
I agree with the previous posters, Windows 7 x64 blows XP Pro x64 away. Vista is nice too, since SP1, it was very rock solid for the several years I ran it, and Windows 7 just improves on it in a lot of ways. Get Windows 7 x64, and go in open minded. At first I didn't like the new taskbar, but after using it for a while I grew to love it. Windows 7 was made for new hardware, so you should really only consider XP or XP Pro x64 if you have hardware that doesn't meet the Win 7 min requirements.
 
I would have stopped trusting them as soon as they said "install an 8 year old OS that was hacked together for 64 bit support and then promptly abandoned".

Either they're dumber than a bag of wet hammers, or they secretly don't like you and want to see you struggle with a version of an OS that had less support than Win ME.
 
sohosources said:
I'm thinking about running Win 7 64-bit or Ubuntu 64-bit, but my geek buddies want me to run Win XP Pro X64. (They HATE Win7...while I'm merely neutral about it so far.)
Click to expand...

I'm gonna give them the benefit of a doubt: What EXACTLY do they hate about Windows 7?
 
Hehehe...

One friend works as an i-Series developer at IBM...the other is a network tech at Charter (he's also a long-time HOCPer :) And he's not squeamish... He has a 24-TB server at home with a RAID card that costs as much as my car! I think he hates M$ in general, but he HATES Win 7...especially supporting it!

I'll ask for more specific reasons!

I have messed around with it. It's okay, but I have had a lot of hardware incompatibility probs and a hellish time getting it to network properly in a mixed OS environment.

Personally, I LOATHE Vista...even though it's been mostly okay since SP1. For me it comes down to the fact that everything's in the wrong spot. I swear, MS moved everything just to piss me off! Hehehe.

Remember, this machine isn't for gaming. It mostly runs a bunch of XP VMs.

I'm starting to play around with the hardware. The frakking BIOS on the Rampage II Gene seems overwhelming...and I've been building PCs since 1983... I mounted the Hyper 212 Plus cooler (complete with HORRIBLE documentation; thanks Cooler Master) and ran MEMTEST for a while. Plenty fast. I'm surprised that the NB and SB run so toasty, though. Guess that's normal for X58...

I also booted Puppy Linux from a flash drive just to be an ass! Talk about a fast OS!

Thanks for the input. I'll report back later today :)

--KK in MN
 
I've been running it for years. Its robust. The drivers are there now in days. Not like when it barely came out. If you can get it for cheap then it would be alright but if you have the money it might be worth it going to windows 7 for dx11. Thats the only incentive i see so far lol. Haven't reinstalled for years already on xp x64. Its just never breaks down. Based on windows server 2003. I just have too much stuff to backup. Just upgraded today also. Added another 2 2TB hard drives. 8 hard drives now. Not that many games really take advantage of dx11 yet either. By the time we see progress windows 8 will be out already in 2012. So far from what i've seen though windows 7 x64 has more problems than the 32bit version with older software.
 
you do know XP (Insert various flavors here) is pretty much dead now, right? Contrary to popular belief, Vista is not bad at all and Windows 7 works good as well.

As long as you install 32bit software where it is supposed to be installed ( Program files(x86) ) they should work fine. Some applications REQUIRE that you let them run with admin privledges in order for them to work properly.....

Stuff that I have seen when people install x86 apps outside of the program files(x86) folder

Cannot find [insert file name here]
program does not open
program cannot find installed module even though you have installed it.


Stuff that I have seen when people do not let program have admin rights

1. unable to save data to HDD
2. Application closes right away
3. video messed up cause application cannot set display properties properly
 
another reason NOT to use XP

Support is ending for some versions of Windows

Support for Windows Vista without any service packs will end on April 13, 2010.

Support for Windows XP with Service Pack 2 (SP2) will end on July 13, 2010.* (I assume that all earlier versions are no longer supported)

If you're running one of these versions after support ends, you won't get security updates for Windows.
Which version and service pack am I running?
What does end of support mean?

* Note: There's no SP3 for the 64-bit version of Windows XP. If you’re running the 64-bit version of Windows XP with SP2, you have the latest service pack and will continue to be eligible for support and receive updates until April 8, 2014.
 
sohosources said:
but I have had a lot of hardware incompatibility probs and a hellish time getting it to network properly in a mixed OS environment.
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First off, on brand new hardware, you will have more compatibility issues with an older, outdated OS than you would a current one. Secondly, aside from HomeGroups, if you disable the Sharing Wizards (who doesn't?) Windows 7 networks exactly like Vista and XP. I don't blame you for skipping Vista, because it's already been replaced by a better OS anyway, in Windows 7.
 
If someone has been supposedly biulding Computers since 1983 lol, they would definately know what works and what does not simple as that.
 
Hey Plumber:

You been eating your lead solder again?

There's always at least one ass-wipe in every group. I guess you're it...

In case you didn't bother to read the thread, I was merely asking the advice of my fellow enthusiasts -- not looking for some douchebag to comment from the peanut gallery about my experience.

WTF?

--KK in MN
 
XP 64 - The OS I wanted to love, but hated.

Before you think about it, confirm and download every single driver that you need for the system. Do not buy any other hardware before you make sure it has XP 64 drivers. More than likely, your printer does not have drivers and will never have it. Newer hardware will probably never have support as well.

Programs, read the forums (planetamd64.com) and make sure every piece of software you ever intend to run works on it. A lot of installers will just balk at seeing an OS they don't recognize. Get used to having a lot of cool apps that will never work on the system.
 
The facts are if you had been doing this as long as you say you have, you would not had to ask anyone so all of youre questions are mute apparently Also you asking friends when you have been doing this so long you should definately know more than them by now so WTF chuck. It was not to be little you or anything k bud, but the facts are you already answered your own questions and you no more than youre friends so thats apparent in a peanut shell. Oh and by the way you cannot use lead solder in the state of texas now a big no no if you are caught, so yes not much use for it now never thought about eating it though.
 
Plumber4life said:
The facts are if you had been doing this as long as you say you have, you would not had to ask anyone so all of youre questions are mute apparently Also you asking friends when you have been doing this so long you should definately know more than them by now so WTF chuck. It was not to be little you or anything k bud, but the facts are you already answered your own questions and you no more than youre friends so thats apparent in a peanut shell. Oh and by the way you cannot use lead solder in the state of texas now a big no no if you are caught, so yes not much use for it now never thought about eating it though.
Click to expand...

I know a couple people that have been building machines longer than him and work and live in a unix world and couldnt tell you the ass end of a windows installation.

Just because someones been building computers for years dont mean they want to keep up with all things microsoft and you thinking that is somehow a bad things just shows your own petty ignorance and closed mindedness.
 
jgoewert said:
XP 64 - The OS I wanted to love, but hated.

Before you think about it, confirm and download every single driver that you need for the system. Do not buy any other hardware before you make sure it has XP 64 drivers. More than likely, your printer does not have drivers and will never have it. Newer hardware will probably never have support as well.

Programs, read the forums (planetamd64.com) and make sure every piece of software you ever intend to run works on it. A lot of installers will just balk at seeing an OS they don't recognize. Get used to having a lot of cool apps that will never work on the system.
Click to expand...

The only thing that didn't work from the start was msn messenger live but you could download a hacked install and get it to install. Everything else that ran on xp32 will run on x64 version. Any x64 driver from windows server 2003 will work. The only trouble i've run into was a old logitech webcam that only had drivers for 32bit. All the games work fine. Service pack 2 on xp x64 is the same as service pack 3 on xp 32bit. You can still modify it also for skins and all that to like xp32.
 
Conker said:
Any x64 driver from windows server 2003 will work.
Click to expand...

Thats pretty lame and why i promptly switched from xp x64. You will find that the drivers made for server 2003 and xp x64 tend to suck compared to the actual xp counterparts. I remember when i was on xp x64 with my 7800GS always beinga couple driver versions behind XP.

Conker said:
Service pack 2 on xp x64 is the same as service pack 3 on xp 32bit.
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No its not. not even close...
 
Disposed said:
Thats pretty lame and why i promptly switched from xp x64. You will find that the drivers made for server 2003 and xp x64 tend to suck compared to the actual xp counterparts. I remember when i was on xp x64 with my 7800GS always beinga couple driver versions behind XP.



No its not. not even close...
Click to expand...

Xp x64 service pack 2 is not the same as sp2 for 32bit xp. Sp2 for xp x64 came out march 2007 while xp 32bit sp2 came out in 2004. Its not even the same core anyways. 5.2 kernel(xp x64/server2003) vs 5.1 kernel(xp 32). Not sure about nvidia but ati drivers are always up to date and they launch with all the others at the same time. I do have a 7800gs agp running in another machine with xp x64. It runs everything fine. Another few running 1950xtx, 7800gtx and 6800ultra. They all run fine on xp x64. That crap about all the problems is just non existent. Maybe at the beginning it wasn't that great since 64bit was barely coming out but now its alright. xp x64 bashing is from people who haven't even used the os or barely even tried it. I run all the codecs, steam, hd movies, video editing, adobe, all the latest games, and analog video transfer. It has more compatibility in my experience than windows 7 x64. A lot of the older software does run on xp x64 while giving a ton of problems in windows 7 x64. I can say almost everything you do on 32bit xp will do fine on xp x64. Crossfiring and all that works fine in xp x64 also. I have 8 machines running xp x64. All this talk about all this incompatibility is just bull now in days. Its not 2003 anymore lol.
 
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Conker said:
Xp x64 service pack 2 is not the same as sp2 for 32bit xp. Sp2 for xp x64 came out march 2007 while xp 32bit sp2 came out in 2004. Its not even the same core anyways. 5.2 kernel(xp x64/server2003) vs 5.1 kernel(xp 32).
Click to expand...

I never said they where, they are completely different operating systems. You however said that x64 SP2 is the same thing as XP sp3 and thats not even close.
 
Disposed said:
I never said they where, they are completely different operating systems. You however said that x64 SP2 is the same thing as XP sp3 and thats not even close.
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I didn't mean the os's were the same but that both were getting updates on a regular basis. Didn't say it right the first time mostly. All the service pack does is just introduce all the older updates in one big package. Both os's are getting updates frequently so that shouldn't be a problem if security is in mind.
 
Yes, the apps and driver issues are what concern me the most.

But remember, on this "productivity box" the base OS mostly just runs VMWare. All of my present software runs in XP or Linux virtual machines.

It's the base (host) OSs job to be stable, stable, stable...and to NOT access the internet!. All of the fringe stuff runs in VMs, which are easily added, nuked, replaced, etc.

What really got me thinking about XP Pro X64 -- other than the fact that I already have a usable COA -- is that it's a lot like Server 2003. My 2k3 file server has been running for two years without a *single* issue. Nothing I've ever run has been better in that regard.

Because the box is essentially a VMWare platform I could run Linux, but I haven't been as successful running a bunch of VMs from a Linux host as I have been with XP (to date).

Now, for my fun machine...unless I can wrangle an educational upgrade copy of Win 7 in short order, I'll probably start with XP (which I have on hand) and upgrade to 7 a bit later to save $$$. Just getting all of the new goodies for the i7 box has wiped out my piggy bank for a while :)

--KK
 
Conker said:
All the games work fine.
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Do you really think ATI and Nvidia are going to optimize their drivers for that old of an OS, or do you think they'll focus on what most people are running? XP x64 had it's day, albeit a very short one. It's a serviceable opion on some older hardware, but there's still no way you can argue "for" on a new system.
Conker said:
Service pack 2 on xp x64 is the same as service pack 3 on xp 32bit.
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wut?
 
On my 64-bit rig, everything worked in XP x64 _except_ my Zune. That was Microsoft's way of internally making sure that XP x64 got left behind and folks moved to Vista or 7.

Personally, I love XP x64 and if my Zune worked there then I'd still be running it.
 
My major issue with it is that I cannot install MSE and the windows live programs. Also, there is some issue of not being able to see thumbnails of certain video files in explorer. Otherwise I would be using it as my main os.
 
techie81 said:
My major issue with it is that I cannot install MSE and the windows live programs. Also, there is some issue of not being able to see thumbnails of certain video files in explorer. Otherwise I would be using it as my main os.
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see my comment above yours. MS did the same things with Live and MSE that they did with Zune regarding XP x64.
 
for me the only big issues i have are,.

no hibernation when my UPS goes off because i have 8GB of ram.

and i cannot get my audigy2zs soundcard to use a microphone or record sound, although i have never really looked into a solution for this issue
 
Conker said:
You can with a bypass hack. Gotta look it up though.
Click to expand...

I know all about that hack. The big limitation of it is that video playback doesn't work on the software side and codec transcoding for syncing to the player doesn't work. Image viewing and audio works just fine, though, if that's all you're interested in.

Also, if you own a Zune HD (like me) I don't think anyone has gotten the 4.0 series software working on XP x64 -- the last was the 3.x series.
 
http://www.zuneboards.com/forums/progress/48028-install-zune-4-0-windows-xp-x64.html

svet-am said:
I know all about that hack. The big limitation of it is that video playback doesn't work on the software side and codec transcoding for syncing to the player doesn't work. Image viewing and audio works just fine, though, if that's all you're interested in.

Also, if you own a Zune HD (like me) I don't think anyone has gotten the 4.0 series software working on XP x64 -- the last was the 3.x series.
Click to expand...
 
entropism said:
I would have stopped trusting them as soon as they said "install an 8 year old OS that was hacked together for 64 bit support and then promptly abandoned".

Either they're dumber than a bag of wet hammers, or they secretly don't like you and want to see you struggle with a version of an OS that had less support than Win ME.
Click to expand...

Wet hammer here. I do not believe that we have meet, but anyone that is dumb enough to compare a home OS (Windows 7) to that of an OS which runs a server 2k3 kernel and call me dumb, can at least do it to me directly. You should prolly check out my worklogs and see what my goals are always and have been for a while, NO reboots, period, and stable. Not crap that needs to be restarted every other day or it gets slow. 7 is to new to trust for stability and has the same crappy UI as Vista, while not gaining a darn thing other then DirectX 11.

KK is trying to run VMs, not games on this box. The most lite environment for the VMs to sit a top, is what made both my friend and I to give him a quick vote for either XP x64 or Linux.

As smart as you try to be, you were not even smart enough to quickly Google the release date of XP Pro x64 (April 25, 2005 in case you were wondering at this point.) I do not have a PhD in math, but am at least better at it then your 4 year old mistake of 10-5 equaling 8...... April of 2005 to April of 2010 is 5 years, not 8
 
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gjvrieze said:
Wet hammer here. I do not believe that we have meet, but anyone that is dumb enough to compare a home OS (Windows 7) to that of an OS which runs a server 2k3 kernel and call me dumb, can at least do it to me directly. You should prolly check out my worklogs and see what my goals are always and have been for a while, NO reboots, period, and stable. Not crap that needs to be restarted every other day or it gets slow. 7 is to new to trust for stability and has the same crappy UI as Vista, while not gaining a darn thing other then DirectX 11.

KK is trying to run VMs, not games on this box. The most lite environment for the VMs to sit a top, is what made both my friend and I to give him a quick vote for either XP x64 or Linux.

As smart as you try to be, you were not even smart enough to quickly Google the release date of XP Pro x64 (April 25, 2005 in case you were wondering at this point.) I do not have a PhD in math, but am at least better at it then your 4 year old mistake of 10-5 equaling 8...... April of 2005 to April of 2010 is 5 years, not 8
Click to expand...

/golfclap XP x64 still blows monkey ass compared to 7.
 
Win 7 may be a "home OS" but it has the same kernel as Server 2008 R2, so XP Pro x64 has no advantage there. Win 7 also has better multi-core support and better hyper-threading support, among many other things. You should do some research and stop clinging to the past, gjvrieze.
 
gjvrieze said:
Wet hammer here. I do not believe that we have meet, but anyone that is dumb enough to compare a home OS (Windows 7) to that of an OS which runs a server 2k3 kernel and call me dumb, can at least do it to me directly. You should prolly check out my worklogs and see what my goals are always and have been for a while, NO reboots, period, and stable. Not crap that needs to be restarted every other day or it gets slow. 7 is to new to trust for stability and has the same crappy UI as Vista, while not gaining a darn thing other then DirectX 11.

KK is trying to run VMs, not games on this box. The most lite environment for the VMs to sit a top, is what made both my friend and I to give him a quick vote for either XP x64 or Linux.

As smart as you try to be, you were not even smart enough to quickly Google the release date of XP Pro x64 (April 25, 2005 in case you were wondering at this point.) I do not have a PhD in math, but am at least better at it then your 4 year old mistake of 10-5 equaling 8...... April of 2005 to April of 2010 is 5 years, not 8
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Thank you for making your point and introduction. Equally I do not believe we have met yet either. I will say about your response that it seems like you have not tried Win7 at all at this point, and that you also have not read this thread. The OP said he wanted to build two rigs, one for gaming and one for the VM's.

The point that I think is missing is that there is no reason to use an outdated OS with brand new hardware. You are asking for problems. Windows 7 64bit is better than XP64 in every way possible in my opinion and experience. If running a newer OS frightens you for your VM's, then you should be running Linux anyway instead of any MS OS period.

I also do not have a PhD but I can see some problems with your addition as well...
 
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