Very disappointing XFX RMA experience

Vhlad

n00b
Joined
Nov 19, 2009
Messages
7
I feel like I have been ignored and brushed aside by XFX support. Since it's quite long, I will provide my support message history in code tags below.

Here's the TLDR version:

I hold the opinion that the 8800 ultra provides superior performance to the GTS 250 at 1920x1200 with AA/AF enabled. This is due to the higher memory bandwidth and higher pixel fill rate of the ultra: http://www.gpureview.com/show_cards.php?card1=515&card2=606#

This opinion is also supported with benchmarks:

Sum of fps benchmarks at 1920x1200 with 4AA + high quality:
8800 ultra = 252.60
GTS 250 1GB = 247.70
http://www.tomshardware.com/charts/...009/Sum-of-FPS-Benchmarks-1920x1200,1199.html

When AA is increased further, so is the difference. Sum of fps benchmarks at 1920x1200 with 8AA + high quality:
8800 ultra = 121.70
GTS 250 1GB = 110.30
http://www.tomshardware.com/charts/...009/Sum-of-FPS-Benchmarks-1920x1200,1200.html

Looking at specific games (that I care about and play) instead of an average of multiple games, we see:
Fallout 3 at 1920x1200 8 AA 15AF very high quality:
8800 ultra = 44.90
GTS 250 1GB = 38.10 FPS
http://www.tomshardware.com/charts/gaming-graphics-charts-2009/Fallout-3,1173.html

Left for dead at 1920x1200 8AA 16AF very high quality:
8800 ultra = 48.70
GTS 250 1GB = 43.80
http://www.tomshardware.com/charts/gaming-graphics-charts-2009/Left4Dead,1184.html

Strictly speaking, if a 8800 ultra replacement was required to be of equal or better performance, would the GTS 250 1GB suffice? Based on these benchmarks, and based on the superior memory bandwidth & pixel fill rates of the ultra, I believe that a GTX 260 would be required to meet the "equal or better" performance standard.

What do you think?

EVGA has been replacing RMA'd 8800 ultras with GTX 260s (i.e. http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=129748).

XFX, however, is apparently replacing them with GTS 250s. Unless my RMA experience has been in error and will be corrected, I'm not sure how I could ever justify buying from XFX over EVGA again.

My disappointing XFX RMA experience is as follows:

Code:
[SIZE="1"]Ticket ID #: 259416
[B][ 11/4/2009 2:41:22 PM] [/B]
I have two 8800 ultras, an EVGA and a XFX, both purchased at the same time. Using a single card in the 
same PCI-E slot with the same power cables (two 6 pins) and monitor: The EVGA 8800 ultra works (PC 
loads fine, 3D mark works) The XFX 8800 ultra no longer works: the desktop loads with a uniform pattern 
of red flickering dots (and random horizontal lines). The PC sometimes blue screens (display driver 
stops responding). 3D mark does not work. I believe I need warranty service on the XFX 8800 ultra. 
Please help me through this process. 
[B][ 11/4/2009 3:58:54 PM] [/B]
In addition to artifacts/errors with 3dmark (and the desktop), the XFX 8800 ultra results in artifacts 
+ freezes [display driver has stopped responding and has recovered (or blue screen if it doesnt 
recover)] when running any game I have tested: torchlight, fallout 3, D+D online, bioshock. However, 
media files (dvd`s, .flvs) will work. I can also dual boot to XP 64, and the system experiences 
similar errors with the XFX card here. I`m using display driver: 6.14.0011.7516 on the XP 64 boot, 
and display driver: 7.15.0011.8208 on the vista 64 boot. No software or hardware changes have been 
made recenctly - the XFX card used to work with this system. 
[B][ 11/4/2009 4:04:03 PM] [/B]
PS. The red flickering dots and horizontal lines did not appear on my desktop during the last reboot 
I did just now, but 3dmark still failed during the first test (display driver stopped responding)
 
[I][B][MARK_C 11/4/2009 4:54:37 PM] [/B][/I]
[I]Hello XXXXXXX, I have authorized your RMA (Return Merchandise Authorization) so that you can 
send your XFX product in to get it serviced. Anything that is returned to you will go out signature 
required. The return shipping address being used is the address in your online profile: XXXXXXXXXX.  
If for some reason you need to use a different return shipping address or telephone number 
than please notify us immediately at [EMAIL="[email protected]"][email protected][/EMAIL]. 
Include your ticket number as the subject line. Changing the address in your online profile will NOT 
update the return address on the RMA. Some RMAs will require a telephone number. Not supplying 
one may slow down the process. If your exact part number is no longer available, XFX will replace 
with an alternate part based on product performance. To help us select an alternate replacement 
part, please provide details for any required product features such as dual DVI, SLI, Etc. Because 
you are located outside of the U.S.A., additional taxes may be imposed on the return shipment 
by your government. We provide proper documentation and label the package to the best of our 
ability to avoid this but these fees are completely at the discretion of the local government. 
You will be liable for these fees if they occur. Your RMA number is XCR34665. Copy and paste the 
following link into your browser, 
[URL]ftp://xfxsupport.com/public/other/PCA_RMA_TC.pdf[/URL] This PDF is the RMA agreement 
and paperwork. It contains all the RMA terms and conditions; please fill it out, sign it, and include 
it with your RMA. If you wish to waive the signature requirement on return shipments from XFX please 
obtain the waiver form here: [URL]ftp://xfxsupport.com/public/other/signaturewaiver.pdf[/URL]
Thank you, Mark Please note: Adobe Acrobat Reader is required to view the PDF documents 
listed above. Please download and install the latest version of Acrobat Reader from 
[URL]http://www.adobe.com/products/acrobat/readstep2.html[/URL] before attempting to open the forms. [/I]

[B][ 11/4/2009 5:11:30 PM][/B] 
Thanks Mark. I see that I must pay for both the shipping of the original product and of the
repaired/replaced card. Do you have a rough estimate for me of the shipping rate I should expect 
for the repaired/replacement card? 

[I][B][BRIAN 11/5/2009 8:52:24 PM][/B] [/I]
[I]Hi, we`ll take care of the shipping back to you. The only cost to you will be shipping to us. 
However, you may get some duty charges on the way back, but that will be up to your local 
government. We put all of the necessary paperwork on the package before it ships out to try to 
eliminate or reduce the duty charges. However, we cannot control whether or not the government 
will charge you. We`ll be on the lookout for the card. Thanks, Brian. [/I]

[B][ 11/6/2009 12:15:33 AM] [/B]
Thanks! The card has been shipped via UPS. Tracking number: XXXXXXXXXXXXX. The expected 
delivery date is Nov 12. 

[I][B][BRIAN 11/6/2009 11:55:43 PM] [/B][/I]
[I]We`ll be on the lookout for it. Thanks, brian.[/I] 
[I][B][MICHAELC 11/13/2009 7:22:17 PM][/B] [/I]
[I]We have received your recent returns ref: XCR34665. Your returns will be passed to the RMA 
department for testing and diagnosis. We will notify you on completion. Thank You. XFX Support Team [/I]

[B][ 11/13/2009 7:38:06 PM] [/B]
You have received the card. Let me know if there`s anything else you need from me! Thanks 
for the great support so far. PS. I have researched some benchmarks: sum of FPS benchmarks 
1920x1200 at 4AA and 8AA (toms hardware): 
[URL]http://www.tomshardware.com/charts/gaming-graphics-cards-charts-2009-high-quality/Sum-of-FPS-Benchmarks-1920x1200,1473.html[/URL] 
If you are sending me a replacement card (of equivalent or better performance), the GTX 260 
(or better) seems the minimum fit. A GTS 250 1GB is not sufficient at 1920x1200 with high 
quality + AA/AF enabled (it is lower performance than the 8800 ultra, not equivalent or better). 
Also, a google search reveals that RMAd 8800 ultras from EVGA have been replaced by GTX 260s 
([URL]http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=129748[/URL]). I`m just trying to prevent 
any disappointment from my end. I would be sad to lose any game performance after buying 
such an expensive card. Maybe I`m paranoid, this is my first ever RMA. :) 

[I][B][MICHAELC_W 11/13/2009 9:58:29 PM] [/B][/I]
[I]Hi XXXXXXX; we shouldn`t need anything from you at this point, once we have any results 
from testing your card this ticket will be updated automatically. If we have no more stock of this 
card and yours needs to be replaced, the replacement likely will be something a bit lower than 
the GTX series but that won`t be determined unless we are out of equivalent performing 8800 
series cards. Thanks, Michael [/I]

[B][ 11/13/2009 11:23:34 PM] [/B]
I hope not! The 8800 ultra is the highest performing 8800 series card (you have a copy of my 
invoice, I payed $748.88 for it). If it is replaced with a different nvidia card, the minimum replacement 
that will not result in a performance loss at my default resolution and settings is the GTX 260. If 
I am sent a GTS 250 1 GB then I will lose performance in many many games [see sum of fps 
benchmarks, 121.70 goes to 110.30: 
[URL]http://www.tomshardware.com/charts/gaming-graphics-cards-charts-2009-high-quality/Sum-of-FPS-Benchmarks-1920x1200,1538.html][/URL]. 
Considering at the time of this message that a xfx gts 250 1GB is $186.73 canadian (from NCIX) 
and a xfx gtx 260 is $194.99 canadian (from NCIX), I really hope you guys spend the extra $8.26 to 
give me a card that is not lower performance than the 8800 ultra at my settings. Thanks! 
[B][ 11/13/2009 11:28:05 PM] [/B]
Heck you can even bill me the $8.26 canadian! I don`t want to lose performance. Prices are here: 
[URL]http://ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=41731+vpn=GX260XADJC+manufacture=XFX[/URL] 
and here: [URL]http://ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=39434+vpn=GS250XZDFC+manufacture=XFX[/URL] 

[I][B][THOMAS_C 11/13/2009 11:43:40 PM] [/B][/I]
[I]Your recent returns ref: XCR34665 has recently completed the testing process with the following 
status: {I5F010867 = FAULTY}. A technician will be in contact shortly to discuss completion 
of this return. If you have any queries regarding this test result - please send a message to the 
support team. Thank You. XFX Support Team [/I]

[B][ 11/14/2009 6:38:54 AM] [/B]
Thanks Thomas! Please let me know if it is being repaired or replaced. If it is being replaced 
please don`t ship me anything until we discuss the replacement and any options available to me. 

[I][MARK_C 11/16/2009 9:30:01 PM] [/I]
[I]Hello XXXXXXXXX, The don`t call. They will be replacing the card and will update you with tracking 
when the replacement ships. Thank you. Mark [/I]

[B][ 11/16/2009 9:52:13 PM] [/B]
Hi Mark. I hope my message history in this support ticket has been read and acknowledged. 
I want to ensure that I am sent an appropriate replacement before it ships. I will be very disappointed 
in XFX if I find I am shipped an inferior card after making my thoughts clear and providing credible 
links to benchmarks. If your RMA technicians disagree with my assessment, then my cusomer 
service experience would be improved if they discussed the specifics with me before shipment. 
I`d love to give you guys the benefit of the doubt but I`m a pessimist. :). Also, if there are any 
options available to me besides replacement (i.e. refund or partial refund, step-up options, etc) I 
would like to hear about them. 

[I][B][JASONN 11/16/2009 11:49:42 PM][/B] [/I]
[I]We have despatched your recent returns ref: XCR34665 via
[URL="http://www.fedex.com/"]www.fedex.com[/URL] with tracking reference: XXXXXXXXX.
If you have any queries regarding this action - please send a message to the support team. 
Thank You. XFX Support Team [/I]

[B][ 11/17/2009 12:33:09 AM] [/B]
Can a supervisor please review this support ticket message history. I feel my concerns since 
11/13/2009 7:38:06 PM have been ignored, as the replacement has apparently already been 
shipped. Maybe there is light at the end of the tunnel. The RMA form terms + conditions explicitly 
state: If the original product purchased is no longer available or currently out of stock, XFX may 
send a replacement of equal or better performance. I hope the card that I recieve is truly of equal 
or better performance. But if it is a 250 GTS 1 GB it will be worse at my settings (256 memory 
interface bus + 2200 mhz clock for the 250, vs 384 + 2160 for the ultra; see the linked benchmarks). 
We`ll see. If you guys send me an inferior card to save $8.26 when I was even willing to pay $8.26, 
I`ll be pasting a copy of this support history everywhere. But if I`m actually sent a gtx 260, I`ll chalk 
this up as me just being paranoid and owe ya`ll hugs + kisses (and public praise). 

[I][B][WILLIAM 11/18/2009 12:19:07 AM] [/B][/I]
[I]We have now completed your recent returns ref: XCR34665. If you have any queries regarding 
this action - please send a message to the support team. Thank You. XFX Support Team [/I]

[B][ 11/18/2009 3:45:22 AM] [/B]
I have the following 8 queries: (1) Has this support ticket history been read by a supervisor? 
(2) Why was a replacement dispatched on 11/16 when on 11/14 (and again on 11/16) I asked 
for nothing to be shipped until we discussed the replacement and any options available to me? 
(3) Were there any options available to me? i.e. refund or partial refund instead of replacement, 
step-up options, etc? (4) What card am I going to get in the mail? (5) What is the warranty 
on the replacement card? (6) If I receive something that is lower performance at my default resolution 
(1920x1200) with AA/AF enabled than a 8800 ultra in the mail, do you think I will ever buy anything 
(let alone another $748.88 graphics card) from XFX again at any point in my lifetime, especially 
considering there was only a $8.26 CAD difference (that I was even willing to pay) between 
the GTS 250 1GB and the GTX 260? (7) Is there a support team member at XFX who is willing 
to address my concerns/questions or will I get another automated and/or insubstantial response? 
(8) If I am sent a GTX 260 in the mail, how much egg will be on my face? 

[I][B][DANIEL_E 11/19/2009 5:32:59 PM] [/B][/I]
[I]Hi, those responses were automated responses from our system. If the same model card 
is not in stock a replacement of equal or better performance will be used as the replacement. 
This is noted on the rma agreement you had to read through to get our address to send the card 
into us. We do not have any sort of paid upgrade options or any sort of refund/credit options 
available. The replacement card will pick up the warranty of the original card. The card has been 
replaced with a gts 250 which is equal in performance to the 8800 ultra. Daniel [/I]

[B][ 11/19/2009 7:47:13 PM] [/B]
The gts 250 is NOT equal in performance to the 8800 ultra. I have provided links to benchmarks 
already. The sum of fps benchmarks at 1920x1200 with 4AA + high quality: the 8800 ultra is 252.60 
and the GTS 250 1GB is 247.70: 
[URL]http://www.tomshardware.com/charts/gaming-graphics-charts-2009/Sum-of-FPS-Benchmarks-1920x1200,1199.html[/URL] 
When AA is increased further, so is the difference. The sum of fps benchmarks at 1920x1200 
with 8AA + high quality: the 8800 ultra is 121.70 and the GTS 250 is 110.30: 
[URL]http://www.tomshardware.com/charts/gaming-graphics-charts-2009/Sum-of-FPS-Benchmarks-1920x1200,1200.html[/URL]. 
Looking at specific games that I play instead of an average of all games, we see for fallout 3 at 
1920x1200 8 AA 15AF very high quality, that the 8800 ultra is 44.90 FPS and the GTS 250 1GB is 38.10 FPS: 
[URL]http://www.tomshardware.com/charts/gaming-graphics-charts-2009/Fallout-3,1173.html[/URL]. 
Looking at left for dead 1920x1200 8AA 16AF very high quality: the 8800 ultra is 48.70 and the gts 250 1 gb is 43.80: 
[URL]http://www.tomshardware.com/charts/gaming-graphics-charts-2009/Left4Dead,1184.html[/URL]. 
Do I need to keep providing links? I make the claim that the replacement you provided is NOT 
of equal or better performance, that the replacement you sent is in breach of your "equal or better 
performance" RMA policy, and I provide credible links to performance tests. How do you counter? 
I payed $748.88 for an enthusiast graphics card. I have 8 GB dd2-800 ram, a 1000W PSU, 
[email protected] Ghz, and a second 8800 ultra from EVGA. If the EVGA 8800 ultra broke on me, 
they would replace it with a 260 GTX because they know that the 250 1 GB is not equal or better 
performance; I provide an example of EVGA doing this replacement here: 
[URL]http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=129748[/URL]. 
My monitor is an ultrasharp dell 2407wfp 24", with native resolution of 1920x1200. With AA/AF 
enabled at this resolution, the gts 250 is NOT equal in performance to the 8800 ultra. In addition 
to looking at benchmarks, the reason that the gts 250 1GB is NOT equal in performance to 
the 8800 ultra can be found by looking at the technical specs of each card: The GTS 250 has 
a 256 bit memory interface bus and a 2200 mhz clock. The 8800 ultra has a 384 bit memory 
interface bus and a 2160 mhz clock. The superior memory bandwidth of the 8800 ultra means 
that it has better performance than the GTS 250 when memory bandwidth becomes the bottleneck 
(i.e. 1920x1200 resolution, with AA/AF enabled). I made these concerns very clear throughout 
this RMA process already. I even wrote it in explicitly on the physical RMA form that I shipped 
to you with the card. I am severely not satisfied with XFX right now. What can your company 
do to make things right?[/SIZE]

I will update any further developments in this thread. I'm totally bummed right now. Not only am I losing my potential 2x8800 ultra SLI performance, but I'm getting a card that is demonstrably inferior at my native resolution with high settings & AA/AF.
 
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There was a whole thread on this. It got shut down after some racism, but all in all, the gtx260 is an 'equal or better' card for all situations. However:

The GTS250 1GB, up from a 8800Ultra 768mb, can compare. Extra VRAM is also a key factor, here.


However, it will not be 'equal or faster' in all situations. Heck, it will be outright beat in some.

Personally, I go:

nVidia: BFG/eVGA
ATi: XFX/ASUS
 
XFX has never given more than what they are supposed to their customers like eVGA or BFG they always skimp in this kind of situations now a note for the future and vote with your wallet. I always go with MSI or ASUS for ATI cards and eVGA for nvidia.
 
You joined just to post about your RMA?

This website has been on my favourites for a while. But I haven't had cause to create an account to post until recently.

I wish more people would take the iniative to point the spotlight at their bad RMA experiences in such a well described manner. It can help companies improve their support and warranty policies, and help consumers make a more informed choice when making purchases.

There's also a XFXsupport member who frequents these forums. Perhaps he can help me. :)
 
Okay...


ASUS = kill the damn card once it starts showing signs of failing
XFX = haven't had to use them yet, just peace of mind
Sapphire = never.... use.... them.... again... (I'd trust used condums first, before ever trusting Sapphire again)
eVGA = nothing needs to be said. (haven't tried them yet, but you will have to look hard just for a single, bad case)
BFG = awesome RMA (friend, not me - Jeff's presence drove this purchase decision)
 
LOL that guy (@ nvnews) who got the GTX 260 upgrade is still bitching..... :eek:
 
Had to RMA an XFX card that burned up on me several months back. The RMA was very quick and painless - replacement was identical to the card I sent in. RMA'd an 8800gts 640mb to eVGA around the same time. They sent me an 8800gtx 768mb :p

So eVGA and XFX are still at the top of my buy list. Although I'm still annoyed with eVGA for not providing a crossfire bridge with my p55 FTW board, since the PCIe slots are too far apart for standard bridges, you would think they would supply one with a $200 board. But as far as my one RMA experience, they are top notch.
 
You joined just to post about your RMA?

Why does that even matter?

He felt like sharing this with us and you post that........

Anyway, it should be posted as he is wanting advice to see if it is a reasonable upgrade. To me the 250 would have been good enough for me since the 8800 ultra is far gone now.

But he feels he should get a 260 back though. Too be honest a 260 wouldn't kill them but some companies look at it like well we are giving you a newer card, so..........

If you don't want the 250, take it and trade it for another ultra if you can't get the 260 you want/need.

I think a lot has to do with who you talk to and what kind of day they have been having sometime. Good luck with getting your 260 as i hope the make you happy in the end.
 
There's also a XFXsupport member who frequents these forums. Perhaps he can help me. :)

That can be a double-edged sword. A "support member" of another manufacturer just about got the banhammer due to not being up-front about who he was associated with and etc...

But, I should I have said "I hope you didn't just join to..." as there's more to these forums than that...
 
Why does that even matter?

He felt like sharing this with us and you post that........

Everyone's got a negative RMA experience somewhere... There's more to the forums than that, so I hope he's not just here for that...

And, again, his motivation can be a double-edged sword. Some of the "support members" here have turned me away from manufacturers before...
 
I think if they have rma gtx260s lying around, they should give you one, even though it's a significant upgrade from an 8800 ultra. How much did you pay for the Ultra? If you paid over $400 for it, I think they should give you a gtx260.
 
I think if they have rma gtx260s lying around, they should give you one, even though it's a significant upgrade from an 8800 ultra. How much did you pay for the Ultra? If you paid over $400 for it, I think they should give you a gtx260.

I payed $748.88 canadian. They have a copy of my invoice.
 
Don't suppose you considered the oven bake method before sending it back?
 
Don't suppose you considered the oven bake method before sending it back?

Nope, and I wish I did. I also wish I tried underclocking it a little to see if that could make it work. At least then I could still SLI with my 2nd 8800 ultra if I wanted to.

Instead, I left the card in pristine condition. No scraches or changes to stock cooling [aside from setting the fan speed to 100% in nvidia system monitor]. No overclocking. Always very clean, well ventilated. I never took it apart. I returned it in the original box with the original packaging.

I just assumed XFX would do the right thing and didn't think twice about RMAing.

sigh.

If I could choose to have my 8800 ultra back with its original double lifetime warranty as if I never tried to RMA the thing, or this RMA experience with the POS 250 GTS they're trying to shove at me (which I cant RMA again if it breaks later?), Id take the ultra. I'd have a broken card, but I wouldn't be upset. It's the principle. Peace of mind.
 
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Umm the new GTS 250 would have the double lifetime warranty as well.....
 
Don't suppose you considered the oven bake method before sending it back?

Are you serious?

Oven bake a card under warranty that will void the warranty :confused::confused:

It does seem like they were just hoping to pull a fast one and send you the card to hope you would accept it.

I know i wouldn't want a Gts250 from a 8800ultra.
 
Are you serious?

Oven bake a card under warranty that will void the warranty :confused::confused:

It does seem like they were just hoping to pull a fast one and send you the card to hope you would accept it.

I know i wouldn't want a Gts250 from a 8800ultra.

He's been sugesting oven baking for ATi cards, too. We all know how well that goes.


Anyhow, a GTS250 is ~equal. But it's not the same level of performance in about half of games. It's less.

Therein, it's not absolutely "equal and/or better"
 
eVGA = nothing needs to be said. (haven't tried them yet, but you will have to look hard just for a single, bad case)

FWIW my Evga experience has been mediocre at best. I'm in the process of returning my 3rd 285 GTX, and I'm not that impressed with their service. I'm thankful they do honor their warranty, and I certainly know there are worse companies to buy from, but I don't intend on ever buying from them again.
 
Apparently XFX didn't even send me the 250 GTS 1GB to replace the 8800 ultra. According to the packing slip, it's a 250 GTS 512. How can they justify this?
 
Apparently XFX didn't even send me the 250 GTS 1GB to replace the 8800 ultra. According to the packing slip, it's a 250 GTS 512. How can they justify this?

They hope most consumers don't know the difference between the 2 cards, then play defensive/dumb when caught.
 
The problem is you're fighting a shaded area. they say they will replace it with a card which is just as good or better. They say the 250gts is as good, you think it's not as good. This is a dance that could go on for 3-4 months and not get you anywhere. It's like arguing with the farmer that your apple isn't red enough...you could damn well be right and 95% of the ppl agree with you, but you'll always have that 5% in the shaded area.

when you're not exchanging apples for apples it turns into a very hairy situation quick...unless you get the right person in upper management to listen, it's not going to change. the guy responding to you is probably laughing with all his buddies, try to get upper management involved..you'd be surprised how far a nice email can go if you can find the right contact.
 
A GTS250 would be a roughly equivalent card, - but the smaller memory footprint would mean that at high res's with AA and high texture quality in some games you'd get swapping to system memory sooner on the GTS250. So they're right, as long as you're playing games at low res...
 
I find this ridiculous and unacceptable.

It should be a 260. No less. AND you should have the option of returning the other 8800 also for a 260 so that you can continue to SLI or they should provide a card that is equal to 2 8800's. These companies shouldn't think that they can market on SLI and then tell you tough cookies when one of their products breaks up your set.
 
Apparently XFX didn't even send me the 250 GTS 1GB to replace the 8800 ultra. According to the packing slip, it's a 250 GTS 512. How can they justify this?
Now that's just wrong considering that they could have easily given you the 1gb model and somewhat had a defense. That's a significant drop to me and i would definitely not accept that.
 
UPDATE:
The issue of GTS 250 512mb vs 8800 ultra performance is unresolved (XFX maintains the position that the cards are equal).

However, there may be a satisfactory resolution forthcoming. The GTS 250 512mb is on its way back to XFX. I have been told by an XFXSupport representative that they are willing to send me a working 8800 ultra as replacement.

Since I am a pessimist (I probably sound like eeyore from winnie-the-pooh), I'll wait until I actually get the ultra, see what condition it's in, and make sure it works before I celebrate.

It appears the ultra will not be shipped out to me until XFX receives the GTS 250, which is scheduled to arrive Dec 3. Assuming 1 week delivery, I'll have another update around Dec 10.
 
Dude, they're likely going to send you a broken 8800Ultra that was RMA'd. :( If they had 8800Ultra's, they'd have replaced yours with one already...
 
FWIW my Evga experience has been mediocre at best. I'm in the process of returning my 3rd 285 GTX, and I'm not that impressed with their service. I'm thankful they do honor their warranty, and I certainly know there are worse companies to buy from, but I don't intend on ever buying from them again.

Granted they seem to have some QA problems, but given they have not given you issues in your RMA processes, why not go with them in the future? AND FYI, the XFXstory of this thread, is more the norm than the exception for their RMA process.
 
I received a replacement 8800 ultra on the 22nd. Looking at the exterior, the card appears to be in good condition, very clean, nothing bent, no stripped screws, and the thermal adhesive looks fresh. I've had no issues running 3dmark, DDO, Fallout 3, Torchlight, Civ4 FFH2, RA3, or Crysis during my initial testing.

I'm still a little bummed that they initially sent me a gts 250 512mb. The total RMA time from date of initial ticket to delivery of final replacement was 48 days. However, it would have been 19 days if I had kept the gts 250 512mb.

When I initially started the RMA process I was really not expecting to be given a GTS 250 512mb. I thought worst-case I would get a GTS 250 1GB. XFX still maintains that the GTS 250 512mb is equal to the 8800 ultra. They also claim: "there is basically no difference in performance between the 1GB and 512MB models of the GTS250."

There aren't many benchmarks that compare GTS 250 1GB vs GTS 250 512mb. But I have found two:
1) http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/foru...hd-5750-1gb-vapor-x-video-card-review-15.html
2) http://vr-zone.com/articles/nvidia-geforce-gts-250/6660-7.html?doc=6660

It seems to me that XFX bases card equivalency on performance at low resolution, with AA/AF disabled.

We know the GTS 250 is a rebranded 9800 GTX+. If we compare the 8800 ultra and the 9800 GTX+ side-by-side:
http://www.tomshardware.com/charts/gaming-graphics-charts-q3-2008/compare,794.html?prod[2252]=on&prod[2077]=on
(This link is being difficult, if you click on it: copy/paste "[2252]=on&prod[2077]=on" at the end, without the quotes of course)

We find: The 9800 GTX+ outperforms the 8800 ultra in 50/67 results. Unfortunately 46/67 of the results are at low to moderate resolutions, and therefore I will not see these gains on my system. Looking at 1920x1200 results, the 9800 GTX+ outperforms the 8800 ultra in 13/21 results (61.9%). However, looking at the 1920x1200 results that have AA enabled, the 8800 ultra outperforms the 9800 GTX+ in 6/9 results (66.7%).

This somewhat illustrates the point that I have been trying to make: the 8800 ultra has superior memory bandwidth than the GTS 250/9800 GTX+ (103.68 GB/sec vs. 70.4 GB/sec; a 47.3% increase), and this manifests itself as a relative performance boost to the ultra at high resolution with AA enabled.

I play my games with AA enabled. And I play my games on a 1920x1200 monitor. So when I send an ultra in for RMA and receive a 250 GTS, I do not personally experience an equivalent performing card. For other customers a 250 GTS may indeed be an upgrade, but for my consumer needs and intended use of the device I am losing performance on average.

Furthermore, it seems XFX bases card equivalency on performance with SLI disabled.

i.e. Comparing 8800 ultra SLI and GTS 250 1GB SLI side by side, along with a single 8800 ultra and a single GTS 250 1GB:

http://www.tomshardware.com/charts/...=on&prod[2856]=on&prod[2825]=on&prod[2807]=on

The SLI efficiency of the 8800 ultra appears to be better than that of the GTS 250: the ultra SLI ties in 2/31 results and wins in 25/31 results, where GTS 250 SLI performs a maximum of 3% better in its highest winning result, and 8800 ultra SLI performs a maximum of 25% better in its highest winning result. This includes all results, even results that are lower than 1920x1200 resolution and/or are without AA.

Based on this comparison, if I had kept the GTS 250 and contacted EVGA to exchange my 8800 ultra for a second GTS 250 to maintain SLI capability, it seems clear-cut that I would have lost substantial performance at stock speeds [and these benchmarks are for the 1GB version of the GTS 250!]

Retail cost of 8800 ultra at time of purchase: $748.88 CAD
Total cost of RMA: $25 (shipping) + $10.03 CAD (customs duties/taxes on the GTS 250 that was sent back to XFX; And fedex may try to bill me additional customs on the 8800 ultra I just received, we'll see. I'll bitch at fedex about this though).
Retail cost of new GTS 250 512mb: $139.99 CAD

Could have I sold the 8800 ultra on ebay for over $105 CAD? (and save all the time I spent arguing, posting, comparing, and 48 days waiting?).

Looks like it:
$174.99 US - http://cgi.ebay.ca/Nvidia-GeForce-8...emQQptZPCC_Video_TV_Cards?hash=item4ceca9c2b1
$229.99 US - http://cgi.ebay.ca/eVGA-8800-Ultra-...emQQptZPCC_Video_TV_Cards?hash=item2ea9fca1a4
$179.99 US - http://cgi.ebay.ca/nVidia-GeForce-8...emQQptZPCC_Video_TV_Cards?hash=item23047cbc26
$189.99 US - http://cgi.ebay.ca/xFx-nVidia-GeFor...emQQptZPCC_Video_TV_Cards?hash=item19b890d338

I hope that XFX will eventually reconsider their customer interests and equivalency needs & expectations when replacing cards, especially for users that have invested in higher end cards like Ultra, XXX, or other limited edition series. In these cases, basing performance equivalency on single card configuration at low to moderate resolutions and/or without AA does not make much sense. A customer who buys an Ultra is generally not someone who plans to play with AA disabled on a 1280x1024 screen.

I also contacted EVGA customer support on Nov 21st and asked them about all this. I was told: "The GTS 250 is a rebranding of the 9800 GTX super clocked. But the performance of the ultra cards are clocked a little faster than the GTX super clocked."

And we know EVGA has replaced 8800 ultras with GTX 260's: http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=129748

People have also claimed to get GTX 260s back from ASUS for their 8800 cards. And there's a thread on [H]ard|Forum where a BFG representative apologises to someone for sending them a GTS 250 512mb as replacement for their 8800 ultra, claiming they should have at least been given the 1GB version.

So what's up XFX? Yeah, yeah, I have a working 8800 ultra now, so I should stop complaining and be quiet already. And so I will!

XFX: Thank you very much for taking the 250 back and getting me a working ultra. Hopefully your future RMA customers aren't as anal retentive as I am.
 
Dude, they're likely going to send you a broken 8800Ultra that was RMA'd. :( If they had 8800Ultra's, they'd have replaced yours with one already...
Your default RMA replacement is always a repaired model if one is available. Some go back with nothing wrong other than PEBKAC on the part of the sender (I did this with an eVGA card, turned out to be a faulty PSU) and are actually fine. Others just have problems like broken fans, clogged heat sinks that can be fixed. New replacement cards are only issued to the extent that some RMAs are broken in ways that can't be fixed.
 
They hope most consumers don't know the difference between the 2 cards, then play defensive/dumb when caught.


EVGA did this to me once, and immediately sent a decent replacement after I complained. They tried to downgrade me from an 8600GTS to an 8500GT 512MB. I wasn't happy.

This thread concerns me as I just bought an XFX 5870 . I haven't dealt with XFX for years after they shut down forum threads due to tons of complaints from people dealing with their 7800GTs with fans stuck on 100% all the time. If they pull anything like this with me, there is going to be hell to pay.
 
I have had bad experiences with their video cards. Crappy thermal pads and crappy GPU heat sinks need I say more. I have two 8800 gtx XXX cards wouldn't do factory overclock until I modified them with better thermal pads (old ones slid off so easily) and better GPU cooler fan. So I can relate. I tell people don't buy with XFX go with EVGA instead. Quality control is non existent.
 
glad to hear you got things work out but i will never buy an XFX card based on your experience and the stuff i read, lifetime warranty doesn't mean much when u go through hardware every 3 years and buying a used card second hand is cheaper compared to the price difference with time value of money factored in, shipping costs, unnecessary griefing and waste of time dealing with some lousy vendor.
 
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