Dragon Age Origins discussion...

>I did expect a different game

Many of us here are expecting a spiritual successor to Baldur's Gate, like promised. This means micromanagment, strategic combat, and turning off the scripted party-AI the first thing you do :)

>Dragon Age is made for a niche market.

Tease!
 
With 2560x1600, 8xAA, 16xAF, all settings at max, I am getting about 40 fps with an 4870x2.

Game plays like Baldurs Gate 2, basically. At least combat-wise.
 
Yaotzin said:
Even the "negative" comments like Thuleman's make me excited.
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Indeed, since most of the negative comments thus far have little to no substance or credibility behind them when you start scratching past the surface or, in some instances, not even that.
 
Q-BZ said:
Indeed, since most of the negative comments thus far have little to no substance or credibility behind them when you start scratching past the surface or, in some instances, not even that.
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I've noticed that as well. Seems like most of the complaints are just generic "This game sucks!" type comments. Can't wait until I get off work to play!
 
phobic said:
I've noticed that as well. Seems like most of the complaints are just generic "This game sucks!" type comments. Can't wait until I get off work to play!
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And they're coming from people who either

1.) Haven't played the game.

2.) Barely played the game.

and/or

3.) People that think they've got it all covered because they watched some Internet videos.

It's all equally worthless.
 
RexPokinghorn said:
Also hypocritical considering you're asking someone to put 10 hours into a game when you've only done 1 yourself.
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Not really, I am accounting for bias. I was able to determine after just an hour that this isn't for me for the reasons stated. I assume that someone who is biased toward the developer or this style of game would have a higher tolerance for tedium.
 
Thuleman said:
Not really, I am accounting for bias. I was able to determine after just an hour that this isn't for me for the reasons stated. I assume that someone who is biased toward the developer or this style of game would have a higher tolerance for tedium.
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Just out of curiosity, what game would you consider fun and not prone to tedious mechanisms?
 
Thuleman said:
Not really, I am accounting for bias. I was able to determine after just an hour that this isn't for me for the reasons stated. I assume that someone who is biased toward the developer or this style of game would have a higher tolerance for tedium.
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You keep throwing this buzz word around like it's fact when it's clearly not.
 
Thuleman said:
Not really, I am accounting for bias. I was able to determine after just an hour that this isn't for me for the reasons stated. I assume that someone who is biased toward the developer or this style of game would have a higher tolerance for tedium.
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Your "tedium" is my tactics and strategy.
 
We're all PC gamers here, right? And we all love PC games. So I would not hesitate to recommend this game to anybody here.

That said, Dragon Age falls far short of the mark set by Baldur's Gate. That doesn't make the game bad, but Bioware simply should not have said that DA was going to be 'the spiritual successor to Baldur's Gate'.

There are some fundamental flaws here.

As I said earlier, in Dragon Age you don't queue up orders, but instead hit number buttons sequentially, as you did in Guild Wars, and then just sit tight and wait for the cool down effects to cycle through, whereupon you hit the numbers again.

Okay, but there's a fundamental problem here.

In Baldur's Gate, part of the challenge - indeed, a rather huge part of the challenge - resulted because, as a mage, you would have to rest or sleep between casting your spells. This meant of course that spell management was vital. You would have to withhold certain spells as not to 'use up' your arsenal. You simply never knew (your first time through) when you were going to need a powerful spell. Timing was essential.

Folks, there's none of that in here. It's like you're constantly loaded up with ammo, and can just fire away at will without any fear of having to face the consequences later on - really, not a console design decision? You bet it is, you bet it is.

In Baldur's Gate, party management was vital - you had to have a nice balance, between clerics and mages and tank units, and then you had to make them work together, sort of like managing an army through combined arms tactics. You also had to equip your party members properly. Sometimes you would have to pre-buff your characters with the right potions or spells. In battle, your wizards would sometimes have to choose exactly the right spells at precisely the right moments - and failure to get it right would end in you and your party's demise.

Again, so far, I haven't seen any of this. I'm six hours into this thing, and I haven't had a single moment that was even reminiscent of Baldur's Gate.

Over at the official forum, the vast, vast majority of people are in complete denial about this not being the true successor to Baldur's Gate. It's unbelievable to me that nobody there has even mentioned that you don't need to queue up orders (or indeed that you 'can't' queue up orders), or that your party does not need to rest!

I remember when in NWN2 it was discovered that your party members could rest by kneeling for two seconds - there was holy hell to pay for that. But now, suddenly with Dragon Age, a fundamental game dynamic (the need to rest), which really forces you to strategize, has just been forgotten? How could people just forget about this?

I suppose that all of this is the reason you shouldn't get too hyped up about a game - it will severely cloud your judgement. And yeah, LOL at myself for having fallen a victim to that.

Again, in no way, shape, or form is Dragon Age a bad game - and yes I would recommend it to everyone here. But you're going to find a game that's part Guild Wars, part WOW, with a little bit of Mass Effect thrown in for effect. Try it out for yourself and let us know.

(But to say one more thing: I foolishly assumed, before I actually sat down and spent some time with DA, that it would easily be my game of the year... indeed, rather, it might end up being my biggest disappointment of the year. I need to finish the game first, but right now I just don't have that feeling of awe that you get when you're in the presence of greatness.)
 
Thuleman said:
I am not saying it's a bad game, but I am saying that it's so fkn tedious to do anything that it sucks the entertainment value right out of it.
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But you play EVE? Something isnt right here. ;)

I like complex games though. I havent had a good one since Witcher, and I'm tired of watered-down RPGs like Mass Effect. Hoping this doesn't turn out to be one of them.
 
That form of spell casting is specific to the D&D universe. There's no other game or story that has a mage read a spell, memorize it and have it wiped from memory upon use and I have a feeling that even if they wanted to BioWare wouldn't be able to without infringing upon some kind of intellectual copyright.
 
"Spiritual successor" doesn't mean the gameplay mechanics have to be the exact same.
 
Thuleman said:
Not really, I am accounting for bias. I was able to determine after just an hour that this isn't for me for the reasons stated. I assume that someone who is biased toward the developer or this style of game would have a higher tolerance for tedium.
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Biased? Really? Liking something doesn't mean biased. Biased is some asshat (not you, just in general) going around screaming "this game sucks because it isn't Oblivion" or some such shit without ever playing it.
 
KenG10 said:
Look out everyone, its WabeWalker again.
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What's the problem? At least he's actually spent some real time in the game and given us some feedback with some teeth. 6 hours vs. one guy who hates these kinds of games doing a 1 hour hit and run or a bunch of others who haven't seen or done squat except for some Internet videos and hearsay.


The things that Wabe says he isn't thrilled with...Wabe there's hope there simply because I think the mod community is going to have a field day with this in short order and at the end of the day it's going to become a situation where this game can be tailored to a lot of different preferences.

I can't wait to see it. :)
 
KenG10 said:
Look out everyone, its WabeWalker again.
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Meaning?

Did you even read my post?

Do so now please, and respond to what I wrote instead of writing this single sentence, which, in my opinion, is designed to try to get everyone on your side - how is this beneficial to the forum?

"Look out, it's WabeWalker again."

So I'm not allowed to post my opinion about a game if it's even remotely negative? Wow. That's just incredibly shallow. You'll have to excuse me for getting annoyed about this - but if anybody here had taken the time to post their opinion about a game, and some guy had come in and said, look out, everyone, it's so-and-so, I think you'd get pretty angry too.

Am I not allowed to post my opinion at this forum? Seriously, that just pisses me off. Sorry about that, but it does. That was completely uncalled for, in my opinion.

EDIT: Oh okay, thanks, guys. You guys above, I mean. :)
 
Yaotzin said:
What of BG2's combat did you want that isn't in DA:O?
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Possibly nothing if the battles are satisfying, it doesn't need to be the same as BGII, it just needs to have some depth, rather than just some attrition of hit points.

BGII was neat because there were surprises, you couldn't just use the same buffs and attacks all the time.

Yaotzin said:
Personally I'm delighted that DA:O actually sounds hard. BG2 was far too easy. Could easily play a solo sorc that could never be hurt even. Or a Kensai/Mage...
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It's early days, the challenge of DA sounds promising, but of course it may be that once the new system is understood there will be exploits and strategies to make it trivial - I really hope not, and it's been in development and testing long enough that it should be solid. They at least went back to a core set of balanced classes, rather than the messy NWN2 approach of throwing in every variation possible.

It certainly was possible to min/max characters in BGII and stroll through the game, and ToB really broke the balance unless you were very self disciplined. I did the high intelligence sorcerer bit too, never running out of time-stop by exploiting the wish spell. It was much more fun with a balanced party of the game characters who had their own strengths and weaknesses.
 
WabeWalker said:
Meaning?

Did you even read my post?

Do so now please, and respond to what I wrote instead of writing this single sentence, which, in my opinion, is designed to try to get everyone on your side - how is this beneficial to the forum?

"Look out, it's WabeWalker again."

So I'm not allowed to post my opinion about a game if it's even remotely negative? Wow. That's just incredibly shallow. You'll have to excuse me for getting annoyed about this - but if anybody here had taken the time to post their opinion about a game, and some guy had come in and said, look out, everyone, it's so-and-so, I think you'd get pretty angry too.

Am I not allowed to post my opinion at this forum? Seriously, that just pisses me off. Sorry about that, but it does. That was completely uncalled for, in my opinion.
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http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/9/index/72636/1

There's having an opinion and then there is blowing things way out of proportion.
 
Q-BZ said:
What's the problem? At least he's actually spent some real time in the game and given us some feedback with some teeth. 6 hours vs. one guy who hates these kinds of games doing a 1 hour hit and run or a bunch of others who haven't seen or done squat except for some Internet videos and hearsay.


The things that Wabe says he isn't thrilled with...Wabe there's hope there simply because I think the mod community is going to have a field day with this in short order and at the end of the day it's going to become a situation where this game can be tailored to a lot of different preferences.

I can't wait to see it. :)
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Dragon Age is not a bad game - not by a longshot.

It's just not the game I was expecting. Again, for the reasons I've already stated. LOL!
 
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RexPokinghorn said:
That form of spell casting is specific to the D&D universe. There's no other game or story that has a mage read a spell, memorize it and have it wiped from memory upon use and I have a feeling that even if they wanted to BioWare wouldn't be able to without infringing upon some kind of intellectual copyright.
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Spell memorization, or Vancian casting, has been on the way out for a long time. Every newer D&D edition got further and further away from it (by adding 'power points', feats, at-will powers, milestones, etc). So lack of that isnt by itself a bad thing, as long as the replacement system doesn't suck.

It was supposed to add a resource management factor to games. Instead, you just rested before anything that was remotely challenging. That crap even happened in tabletop games ("we cant go further into the dungeon until we get back our Cure Wounds spells!"). Then in the NWN games it was distilled to the '3-second rest' nonsense. Might as well have a cooldown on powerful spells.
 
Uh, Ken.

This is the hardforum.

I believe that a moderator might tell you that posts at other forums have no place in this forum. THIS forum is for Hardforum members, and any discussion taking place outside of it is not really relevant.

But no matter, this other WabeWalker, at the other forum, is also entitled to his or her opinion - doesn't matter if you disagree or don't disagree. You shouldn't belittle a person because you don't like what they wrote, or allegedly wrote, at another forum, about a different subject for the same game.
 
WabeWalker said:
Uh, Ken.

This is the hardforum.

I believe that a moderator might tell you that posts at other forums have no place in this forum. THIS forum is for Hardforum members, and any discussion taking place outside of it is not really relevant.

But no matter, this other WabeWalker, at the other forum, is also entitled to his or her opinion - doesn't matter if you disagree or don't disagree. You shouldn't belittle a person because you don't like what they wrote, or allegedly wrote, at another forum, about a different subject for the same game.
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So you're saying that isn't you? :rolleyes:
 
WabeWalker said:
Uh, Ken.

This is the hardforum.

I believe that a moderator might tell you that posts at other forums have no place in this forum. THIS forum is for Hardforum members, and any discussion taking place outside of it is not really relevant.

But no matter, this other WabeWalker, at the other forum, is also entitled to his or her opinion - doesn't matter if you disagree or don't disagree. You shouldn't belittle a person because you don't like what they wrote, or allegedly wrote, at another forum, about a different subject for the same game.
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Nah, the mods usually lock up threads when they become derailed totally off topic and become useless flamefests, much like this thread is becoming. Did you lock that other thread you started (after I linked the post to the Bioware forums)? No big deal really. :cool:

So on topic, anyone have some screenshots? :)
 
WabeWalker said:
Uh, Ken.

This is the hardforum.

I believe that a moderator might tell you that posts at other forums have no place in this forum. THIS forum is for Hardforum members, and any discussion taking place outside of it is not really relevant.
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No rule against it that I'm aware of.

But no matter, this other WabeWalker, at the other forum, is also entitled to his or her opinion - doesn't matter if you disagree or don't disagree. You shouldn't belittle a person because you don't like what they wrote, or allegedly wrote, at another forum, about a different subject for the same game.
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What are the odds that's a different person? C'mon now.

As far as that camera goes...does this game have a bunch of nice and handy. ini files that people could tweak to their liking, including configs, camera angles, and such?


In any event: If you throw out the BG successor line like apparently you are doing...what game(s) do you compare this thing to, Wabe?
 
A "WabeWalker" is a nerd thing from Lewis Carroll's "Jabberwocky".

So, it's not entirely out of the question that they are two different people.
 
Sorry, but I don't feel the need to respond to posts at other forums. This is a decent enough thread about Dragon Age, and it would be a shame to see a lock put on it.

But if people don't like what was written at that other forum, then shouldn't they be responding to it at that forum?
 
Q-BZ said:
No rule against it that I'm aware of.



What are the odds that's a different person? C'mon now.

As far as that camera goes...does this game have a bunch of nice and handy. ini files that people could tweak to their liking, including configs, camera angles, and such?


In any event: If you throw out the BG successor line like apparently you are doing...what game(s) do you compare this thing to, Wabe?
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Like I said, if you play as a mage, then Dragon Age, astonishingly enough, plays exactly like Guild Wars. There's a bit of Mass Effect in there. And some of the other mechanics are very WOW like.

Well, that's what I came away with after six hours anyhow.
 
Stop it. You're just going to get this locked...
 
WabeWalker said:
Like I said, if you play as a mage, then Dragon Age, astonishingly enough, plays exactly like Guild Wars. There's a bit of Mass Effect in there. And some of the other mechanics are very WOW like.

Well, that's what I came away with after six hours anyhow.
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My Steam copy is unlocked so it's time for me to start finding out myself.

I'll try and revisit this thread sometime later when I have some good time under my belt and offer my two cents worth on it. :)
 
Apparently Steam has enabled unlocking the game. I think I might taken an early and extended lunch today.
 
Anyone here able to register their game to the site or redeem any of the DLC?
 
RexPokinghorn said:
Apparently Steam has enabled unlocking the game. I think I might taken an early and extended lunch today.
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Damn, figures. I took an early lunch because I thought the game wouldn't unlock until later. I just can't win! :mad: :D
 
RexPokinghorn said:
Apparently Steam has enabled unlocking the game. I think I might taken an early and extended lunch today.
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You're looking a little flushed and hot there. I think maybe you need to go home from work early or something. ;)
 
WabeWalker said:
In Baldur's Gate, party management was vital... ...I haven't had a single moment that was even reminiscent of Baldur's Gate.
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To be fair 6hrs is possibly not enough for those type of moments to become apparent. Certainly with BGII I remember more exploration and smaller, simpler skirmishes early on (though my memory could be hazy :p) but more of the good moments early on came from some of the dialogue.

WabeWalker said:
But now, suddenly with Dragon Age, a fundamental game dynamic (the need to rest), which really forces you to strategize, has just been forgotten?
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This shouldn't be a problem if the 'mana' recharge is properly balanced - in practical terms recharging is the same as resting, especially for sorcerers, it's just dressing for the mechanic. I wasn't sure about this when KOTOR was launched, but in the end the change is just fine. The real difference is in comparison to the DnD wizard, but I think just as often that system could break suspension of disbelief - because you had too many of the wrong spells and would need to reload an older savegame. I can see why Bioware adopted the change, it's more user friendly. I'm sure I will miss trying to guess which spells will be best ahead of time, but there's no reason that the DA system should preclude exciting, tactical magic battles.
 
*cries as his UK copy of DA:O is downloaded on Steam but not released until the 7th*
 
Summoner said:
*cries as his UK copy of DA:O is downloaded on Steam but not released until the 7th*
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Maybe by then the community site will work and you won't have to worry about redeeming your DLC codes or registering your CDkey without problems.
 
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