CoD: MW2 Lets Player Kill Civilians

RumpleForeSkin said:
as a veteran myself i take some issues with you taking issue.
American's have killed civilians. plain and simple.
The bombing campaign in Europe at the end of the second world war killed more civilians than could ever be accounted for. Was it intentional? probably not but it was the only way to ensure victory for our country and our allies.
My Lai Massacre? wiki it (interesting fact on that is that a young Major that was charged with investigating that was a certain Joint Chief named Colin Powell )

I know from speaking to returning veterans of these wars that civilians are being killed by American servicemen. Do they feel good about it? absolutely not but the mission was the mission and that is just how it is in the military.
to take offense to something that is a cold hard fact is just silly. Don't wave your flag in the man's face and use your family's service ( not yours) as an excuse to deny the facts.
Click to expand...

Lesser of two evils: Were I alive at the time of Hiroshima/etc., I would have thought the same I do now as someone looking back at history: it saved more lives and freedom for the world, than it destroyed.
 
Cschill1290 said:
Bullshit. You views on the war are your own, and you are entitled to your opinion as much as the next guy. But accusing the men and women who give their lives to defend our freedom of killing innocent civilians is bullshit. Most of the men in my family have been in the military in 3 different branches, and I take great offense to your statement.
Click to expand...

It's all fun and games until someone drops a bomb on your family. In the name of 'freedom', of course.
 
ChairmanMiau said:
It's all fun and games until someone drops a bomb on your family. In the name of 'freedom', of course.
Click to expand...

We aren't dropping bombs on families for freedom, though: the terrorists are dropping bombs on us because they believe we are infidels, however :p !
 
GoldenTiger said:
We aren't dropping bombs on families for freedom, though: the terrorists are dropping bombs on us because they believe we are infidels, however :p !
Click to expand...

What terrorists? Where are they dropping bombs?

And why are soldiers dropping bombs on families if not for 'freedom', then? Do they have no internal reason?
 
ChairmanMiau said:
What terrorists? Where are they dropping bombs?

And why are soldiers dropping bombs on families if not for 'freedom', then? Do they have no internal reason?
Click to expand...

Are you acting dense on purpose? Terrorists are attacking soldiers in Iraq/Afghanistan constantly, killing civillians on purpose to send a message of fear, and kind of dropped several airplanes onto buildings in the USA a few years back... and of course would continue doing so if we didn't keep them busy abroad. Make no mistake, if we weren't over there fighting them, they'd be coming here to fight us. As far as soldiers dropping bombs on families, can you please provide proof that we are doing so deliberately and of several documented incidents of it happening with no clear reason as to why? If we're doing it on purpose, surely someone would have figured it out by now and exposed it? Perhaps we aren't?
 
GoldenTiger said:
Are you acting dense on purpose? Terrorists are attacking soldiers in Iraq/Afghanistan constantly, killing civillians on purpose to send a message of fear, and kind of dropped several airplanes onto buildings in the USA a few years back... and of course would continue doing so if we didn't keep them busy abroad. Make no mistake, if we weren't over there fighting them, they'd be coming here to fight us. As far as soldiers dropping bombs on families, can you please provide proof that we are doing so deliberately and of several documented incidents of it happening with no clear reason as to why? If we're doing it on purpose, surely someone would have figured it out by now and exposed it? Perhaps we aren't?
Click to expand...

Their a Terrorist organization not a militarized country. What they achieve with scattered numbers that can be at times in the single digits is much more to fear than a country defending it's home turf. Yes we are fighting on their "stomping" grounds but lets not get too comfy on the idea that terrorist organizations being loyal or grounded into one particular nation let alone continent.

If recent arrests aren't enough to prove it, all it takes is 1 or 2 people and the right resources (not failed connections resulting in staged arrests) to do some actual harm.

To fight terrorism (if you truly can) you need to think like a terrorist, the best we are attempting to do is provide these countries that lack both strong government and strong military from falling back into the hands of a tyrannical leadership. And we have also given them a more home field advantage to sabotage roads and cars to kill our soldiers. Unlike a country losing a war, for each life we lose to these acts they become more morally justified towards their actions...

I honestly don't feel we are anymore secure with these wars and I'm not completely against them either, once we went in we obligated ourselves to finish the fight unless all become lost. Just like the past, we catch some things early on our homeland (which is much easier than abroad) and when one slips through the cracks it will be another wake up call. And with so few of them scattered about strengthening themselves with more unknown recruits within our homeland, it will eventually happen again... By fighting them as if they are a nation that we must take down, we have only broadened their radical "religious" movements and we have given recognition and justification to their cause...

Once again I support our troops and I know a few who have come back from Iraq and have shared similar feelings. Not saying that one or two speak for them all, but you can support your troops without necessarily fully supporting their cause.
 
I find this quite interesting because there are so few games out there that allow you to see things from the other side, that let you step into the shoes of the villain for a while. I've always felt that there would be no better way to stir emotion in the player than to force him to be complicit in some heinous act. Not in the Fable 2 or Kotor lighthearted "it's fun being evil" sense, but to force you into playing out something truly deplorable, a situation with some gravity, to elicit a reaction.

I think the only thing I find reprehensible about this article is that Infinity Ward didn't have the balls to make this a mandatory section, to really stand behind their artistic vision. It's like if while reading a classic book like say To Kill a Mockingbird there was a warning before you find out Tom Robinson had been killed that you should "skip to page 200 if you don't want to be sad". If they really think this is the way to go, and it's the best way to get the player involved in the story, why is it optional? To me it just says they don't stand behind their work, and are afraid to say what they want with conviction.
 
GoldenTiger makes sense, and as noted some people here are just trolling. As far as the war arguments, it's called common sense, judgment, and justification. If, by using our best judgment, the result of a war will save more lives in the long run than had the war not been fought, it may be possible to justify that war. Assuming the war can be justified, if soldiers in combat bomb or kill with, given their best judgment at the time (difficult, obviously), a belief that their actions will result in more good than bad, they should be able to make those calls without repercussion. Should you kill fifteen civilians to wipe out one terrorist? Probably not. But should you not kill a handful of terrorist leaders because a civilian could possibly die? I'd take my chances and go after the bad guys.

But, given that this is a video game after all, I don't think any of the above real-life situations are relevant. It's fake. I don't care what the intent is. Sure, games are very realistic these days and killing some random guy who is begging for mercy isn't necessarily fun to me anymore, but here in America it used to be a free country, and we never used to be told what we were not allowed to think or enjoy. I don't always have thoughts of bunnies and flowers, and I'd rather take any stress out on some 1s and 0s in the comfort of my own home than ever be tempted to do 1/10th as bad in the real world.
 
GoldenTiger said:
Lesser of two evils: Were I alive at the time of Hiroshima/etc., I would have thought the same I do now as someone looking back at history: it saved more lives and freedom for the world, than it destroyed.
Click to expand...

So essentially you are saying the ends justify the means; which I'm sure is a similar mantra to what various terrorist organizations run under. Because the US did it doesn't make it right; as I stated in the last thread on this topic, (which unironically got locked,) history is written by the victors. Being a terrorist or patriot is a matter of prospective, nothing more, nothing less.

To bring it back on topic, I see this as nothing more than a pub stunt by IW/Act; much like GTA4 publicity, (regardless if it's seen as good or bad,) will garner free advertising, discussions on various boards and added sales because 'everyone wants to see what the big deal is.'

To me the more important question is 'why do they feel the need to screw the PC community?' And I would love to see that question honestly answered without using the word money in any of it's forms.
 
When does the game come out? I personally have no problems blowing away innocent virtual bystanders. I did that for days in GTA4. Have I even come close to consider doing something like that in real life, hell no. After a while, it gets boring and life goes on. I don't see what the big deal is, if some kid's parents think it's not for their kid... then fine, don't buy the game. IW like any other company is after one thing... money so free advertising equals free cash. Saving money is much easier than making money. I say, bring on some civilian sniping action. Who knows, you can probably even snipe some virtual chicks dog while she walks it and as she cries, snipe her.
 
So, thanks for the spoiler right on the [h]ardocp front page. I heard "rumors" about this but have purposely not read any of those links and threads.

But the damn front page headline basically ruins all that. Thanks.
 
RumpleForeSkin said:
understanding them does not make me agree with them
You say lack of character? i'm pretty sure if you read my earlier posts you will see that character is not something i lack.
The difference between a patriot and a terrorist is what side of the fence you stand on. I'm pretty sure if the American revolution was happening today the Brits would have labeled us as terrorists.
you are looking at this with fox-news blinders. open your eyes, there is more than one way to look at a situation. what we call a terrorist they call a freedom-fighter. what we call an insurgency they call a movement.

KNOW THINE ENEMY. if you pulled the flag from your eyes you might actually get somewhere and make some sense.
Click to expand...
Freedom from what?

So you're a veteran that actually justifies the terrorists?
So the people of America have to pay because our Government is full of half-assed mediocre and hypocritical bastards who can assume that they want to treat the U.S. as an empire while holding the flag of goodness and caring too much about International Opinion? And you expect me to consider you seriously? LOL.
Look I've said it already and I'd say it one more time. If you want to be an Empire then be a Goddamn Empire. Don't get into trouble and then hold yourself back saying: I didn't mean to. Just be consequent with your acts.
If you want to be good then stay the fuck away from trouble. If someone messes with you, crush them. If not, then leave them the fuck alone.
You're telling me about Fox news?
Pfft, YOU HAVE NO IDEA.
I was raised among fanatics and I had to fight my way real hard to get out of there. So don't talk to me like if you knew something and come yelling me about what you don't know shit about. Yes I do watch Fox news, and I do it because even before I knew they existed, I agreed with them BECAUSE OF WHAT HAS HAPPENED IN MY LIFE. I don't need no flag to remind of what I need to remember. I have my own life experiences to do that.
I agree with you, there's more than one way to look at a situation and I don't give a shit about those who manipulate people on both sides to get what they want. But I'm also not willing to pay for something the people in any government did. If a terrorist comes my way, he's toasted, period. But I won't lend my skin so any crooked politician can make politics with it. Guess what? You did, and so does every single terrorist, every single day.
 
RumpleForeSkin said:
the thing is that we've been raising kids for the past couple of generation that it's cool to be dumb. Lord knows that it was the king dumbasses in the 80's that reigned supreme. The idea of thinking for yourself was basically eliminated in the last administration where to question what was going on was considered unpatriotic.
I am generally dismissed as a "liberal" somehow that is considered an insult these days, apparently considering the human cost of things in just not in synch with the great drive for capitalism so since i'm not with them i must be against them. heh if only our founding fathers could see us now.. if only...


They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. :D

back to the topic though i don't see the issue with this scene. War games have always been biased. If i remember correctly there was a game by an Egyptian developer that basically played out like any of our western shooters but took the side of a Jihadist, of course it was tore up in our media as being an abomination unto the eyes of the lord or some bs like that.

We Americans have no problem insulting the rest of the world but if it's turned back in our direction it turns into a shit-storm.

it's just sickening to think of the world's opinion of this country now. We were the envy of the planet and something all free societies were desperately trying to emulate. Now we are the but of the joke.. sad really sad
Click to expand...
Read O. Spengler it's called the downfall of the Western Civilization. Next up in line, is Russia.
 
GoldenTiger said:
Are you acting dense on purpose? Terrorists are attacking soldiers in Iraq/Afghanistan constantly, killing civillians on purpose to send a message of fear, and kind of dropped several airplanes onto buildings in the USA a few years back... and of course would continue doing so if we didn't keep them busy abroad. Make no mistake, if we weren't over there fighting them, they'd be coming here to fight us. As far as soldiers dropping bombs on families, can you please provide proof that we are doing so deliberately and of several documented incidents of it happening with no clear reason as to why? If we're doing it on purpose, surely someone would have figured it out by now and exposed it? Perhaps we aren't?
Click to expand...

Yeah, you're either with us, or against us. Know what I mean bra'?
 
I'm gonna have to pick this game up on PC for sure just so I can see what all the fuss is about...before some ridiculous censorship group mandates a censorship patch.
 
pew pew pew!!

some people cant differentiate real life and video games!!

oops.:D
 
For the same reason we saw all the death and suffering during D-Day in Saving Private Ryan.

They could have skipped all of that and simply had people mention it all and the story would have continued successfully without it. But with all the death and misery, the horror and danger of the war was driven home.


Basically, it is to provide a power behind the reasons for doing things.
 
GoldenTiger said:
Are you acting dense on purpose? Terrorists are attacking soldiers in Iraq/Afghanistan constantly, killing civillians on purpose to send a message of fear, and kind of dropped several airplanes onto buildings in the USA a few years back... and of course would continue doing so if we didn't keep them busy abroad. Make no mistake, if we weren't over there fighting them, they'd be coming here to fight us. As far as soldiers dropping bombs on families, can you please provide proof that we are doing so deliberately and of several documented incidents of it happening with no clear reason as to why? If we're doing it on purpose, surely someone would have figured it out by now and exposed it? Perhaps we aren't?
Click to expand...

Nagasaki and Hiroshima bombing is not soldiers deliberately dropping bombs on families? How about those civillians who died in the air strikes in Iraq? I'm not saying which party is right and which is wrong but the reality of war is civillians will die.
 
but it's real life!!!! it's a fictional story that you just happen to interact with on a PC/Console.....Same thing as watching a movie or reading a book.

I swear this world is doomed some time in the next 50 years or so. If we don't bomb ourselves to death, we'll all just kill ourselves after we can't leave our padded room because we might step on a pebble and get hurt.
 
Bigbacon said:
but it's real life!!!! it's a fictional story that you just happen to interact with on a PC/Console.....Same thing as watching a movie or reading a book.

I swear this world is doomed some time in the next 50 years or so. If we don't bomb ourselves to death, we'll all just kill ourselves after we can't leave our padded room because we might step on a pebble and get hurt.
Click to expand...

^---- it isn't real life
 
Can we play as the murdering russian??

Really, now, It's called modern warfare and modern warfare means the victims look just like you and me. Good for them to make it a bit disturbing. Maybe if these games felt MORE real there'd be a whole lot fewer people running around shooting at eachother.

Controversy be damned. It's a bunch of pixels that looks like a civilian getting scattered by a bunch of pixels that look like a bullet fired from a bunch of pixels that looks like a gun held by a bunch of pixels that looks like a Russian mobster.

It's Call of Duty:Modern Warfare 2 or COD:MW2
not Call of Duty: Marshmallow Wonderland chapter 2
 
alg7_munif said:
Nagasaki and Hiroshima bombing is not soldiers deliberately dropping bombs on families? How about those civillians who died in the air strikes in Iraq? I'm not saying which party is right and which is wrong but the reality of war is civillians will die.
Click to expand...

Civilians will die, indeed, and I'd rather as few do as possible. That is the reality of war as you're saying. I just don't get the whole attitude of "War is peaceful and flowery" that people have nowadays.
 
Json23 said:
So shooting innocent civilians in the GTA series is okay, but not in MW2?
Click to expand...

Amen,its a video game,lets not focus on some of the bigger issues in this country like,the homeless,medical coverage,unemployment.
Lets focus on the adults(which is who this game is ONLY intended for)
 
GoldenTiger said:
ExperTroll Rating: 3/10, spelling is decent and grammatical structure is intuitive with an eye for stringing the reader along.

Just one thing to respond with even though I know this is simply troll-bait: America *IS* a "precious little snowflake"... name one other nation that's accomplished what we have in known history. Wait, you can't... :p .
Click to expand...

Military? You mean your impressive trackrecord? Hiroshima, Vietnam, Afghanistan, Iraq. Keep those funerals coming.

Political? Bush won the election twice. That means after aaaaall the misery he put you thro you peeps probaly must have thought "F*** this, let's pick him again".

Now Mr. Obama is a very charismatic man but his actions contradict what he's saying. Also, Federal Reserve Bank says hi.

Economical? .. Do I really have to go there? Actually I think I will. DEPRESSION - RECESSION - hey, that rhymes.

Medical? Hmm, aren't you like the only modern country without a healthcare for everyone? No, I'm actually pretty sure. Ohwell, atleast you have Dr. House, he's cool.

I guess I am wrong afterall, your nation has accomplished what noone ever has. Sadly it's not really positive.
 
Hey Golden Tiger... suck it.. just because i haven't been a forum monkey like yourself here does not mean i was just trolling..

Funny though you call me a troll an yet it took you 4 pages of decent debate and discussion for you to make a post that says I was trolling... how odd
 
Oh and another thing...

America is not a precious little snowflake.. it is an empire that will fall just like every empire before it. Look at your history man, even the greatest and more influential empires have fallen. Rome, Persia, British (and yes they have fallen. they are not the colonial powerhouse they once were before you try and pull some shit out of your ass). Soviet.. it is the same as it ever was (whacks forehead) same as it ever was...

so THINK before you go and poke this tiger.. i have teeth and know how to use them.

dipshit
 
Hiroshima and Nakasaki were targets of the A-Bombs because they had some significance as military targets.
A deliberate targeting of the population at large in the urban areas was done during the fire bombing of Tokyo and other major Japanese cities. More civilians were killed during this raid than from either of the two atomic bombs and it was done by design by Gen. Curtis LeMay. He said after the fact that if the U.S. had lost the war he would have been put on trial for war crimes based on his actions.
 
This section of the game being an issue is a matter of perspective.

I understand the people saying and endorsing the fact that other games (GTA) do similar things. However the presentation is different, largely because of the character you play.

Anyway, we know that CoD isn't new to controversial subjects. CoD4 started with a political figure being publicly assassinated -- and you were in his shoes. However here the difference was that you were the victim, and this garnered anger toward the villian, as well as creating this 'sense of urgency' that IW talks about.

This new scene is completely different. You are now the villain yourself -- which my assumption is not who you play through the rest of the game. Therefore you never build up any sort of connection to this character other than knowing the fact that you're supposed to hate him because he's the enemy. But that is difficult when you were just put in his shoes, one would assume that action would make you sympathetic to his cause, not the opposite. This sequence doesn't do anything to create a 'sense of urgency' about wanting to get this guy. You're telling me that if you choose to shoot the civilians that now you're going to want to go kill...."yourself"?

In short, the only thing that this scene does is cater to sadistic emotions/thoughts within a player.

I agree with Steve here, why was this even included? If they wanted to create a 'sense of urgency' and make you hate this guy, they could have easily made it an interactive cut-scene with you being a civilian victim (similar to how CoD4 started out).

On a side note, this have nothing to do with Multiplayer and the fact that you can play as an insurgent or the marines. Multiplayer is an entirely different animal as the story there is only background to provide the environment you play in, there is in fact no story in and of itself.
 
ChairmanMiau said:
I expect that a lot of people moaning about the game don't complain about real soldiers invading countries and murdering civilians.
Click to expand...
No kidding. In this country young adults sit at computer screens and drop bombs daily onto innocent small brown skinned peoples from drone planes without the majority of this country batting an eye, but a simulated innocent online killing... ALERT THE PRESS!

Although I do feel some parts of the gaming industry are interested in pushing military propaganda, desensitizing youth and interesting them in real life murder for profit.

http://www.americasarmy.com/about/bios.php?id=8

Except the people that get enticed by this shit forget that the little kids they are shooting don't get to respawn.
 
ivandurago said:
No kidding. In this country young adults sit at computer screens and drop bombs daily onto innocent small brown skinned peoples from drone planes without the majority of this country batting an eye, but a simulated innocent online killing... ALERT THE PRESS!

Although I do feel some parts of the gaming industry are interested in pushing military propaganda, desensitizing youth and interesting them in real life murder for profit.

http://www.americasarmy.com/about/bios.php?id=8

Except the people that get enticed by this shit forget that the little kids they are shooting don't get to respawn.
Click to expand...

take it to the soapbox.
 
GoldenTiger said:
name one other nation that's accomplished what we have in known history. Wait, you can't... :p .
Click to expand...

I will surprised if this nation makes it over the 500 year mark, I see this country inching closer to revolution daily. This nation has done nothing more than other military mights of the past have, aside for generating a larger body count. Cuba has better literacy rates than us, and the same life expectancy and health care...

When the banking institutions took control of our government we failed to protect this nation from what our forefathers had warned us of; "I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies. If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around [the banks] will deprive the people of all property until their children wake-up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered. The issuing power should be taken from the banks and restored to the people, to whom it properly belongs."

We must make a massive reform to return the land to the entire populace or risk the crumble of this bloated regime.
 
I'm now buying this game solely to kill innocent civilians...

See, the marketing worked.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top