Live ID expired, Gamertag killed?

C

CitizenTony

Limp Gawd
Joined
Mar 13, 2004
Messages
164
My sons Gamertag is from 2005, we set him up on a silver account and created a live ID but never had a need to use it. Now he want's a gold account and has a card for one. We went to enter it in, but kept getting an error saying it couldn't connect. I called Xbox support and they are saying that the Live ID expired sometime in 2006 and there was no way to change the ID to a new one to activate the Gold account on.

They claim our only option is to create a new Gamertag and not let the Live ID expire again.

We had no clue that the Live ID would expire for inactivity, especially considering he uses the Gamertag at least once a week. Now, after 3 years of gaining gamerscore and saved games, he has to give it all up if he wants to be able to upgrade his account. He's pretty proud of his Gamerscore too.

Why would something tied to the Gamertag expire in the background? There are plenty of people using these things that have no need for a Live ID. Are all of them in the same position?

Anyone have a fix for this? I've emailed Major Nelson and he's replied that he's looking into it, but I thought I'd post here as well.
 
Nothing unusual. Data takes space, space requires HDD storage, HDD's require IT infanstructure, IT infanstructure requires money to build and maintain and companies only have a finite amount of each. Many MMORPG's for years have removed "unused" accounts and profiles that have been "dead" for some time. Many will state in their EULA *if you bother to read them* the amount of time they will allow for a character or account to remain inactive before its removed.

When your accounts number in the thousands or millions, "dead" or "inactive" accounts can grow into a major waste of system resources thus = wasting/loosing money. No company likes to waste/loose money from clients who they ARE NOT making revenue from when the resources could be used on clients who WILL produce revenue.

Businesses exist to make money, not loose it. Simple economics my friend.
 
not sure if this works but just give it a try, recreat your live id with the same username and password and see if that works
 
I had an old xbox account that I lost in the same way... but I thought that 360 accounts swapped over to silver when you stopped having XBL gold.
 
Freezebyte said:
Nothing unusual. Data takes space, space requires HDD storage, HDD's require IT infanstructure, IT infanstructure requires money to build and maintain and companies only have a finite amount of each. Many MMORPG's for years have removed "unused" accounts and profiles that have been "dead" for some time. Many will state in their EULA *if you bother to read them* the amount of time they will allow for a character or account to remain inactive before its removed.

When your accounts number in the thousands or millions, "dead" or "inactive" accounts can grow into a major waste of system resources thus = wasting/loosing money. No company likes to waste/loose money from clients who they ARE NOT making revenue from when the resources could be used on clients who WILL produce revenue.

Businesses exist to make money, not loose it. Simple economics my friend.
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I understand that. The problem lies in the fact that the Gamertag was used at minimum every week. The Live ID expired.

Why tie the two together if one can expire due to inactivity while you're still using the other? Shouldn't one update the status of the other so one doesn't ruin the use of the other?

We're supposed to log into our Live ID every six months to insure our Gamertag remains functional? This doesn't seem to be a very smart way to do things, using one account that depends on another, unrelated account to work.

Simple economics, yes. But you don't expire an account that's essential and tied to another when that other one is used on a weekly basis. A simple ping from the Gamertag to the Live ID stating that it was still active could have solved this.
 
Malbadawi said:
not sure if this works but just give it a try, recreat your live id with the same username and password and see if that works
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Thanks, but we tried that too. No go. We just get an error that says that Live ID is not associated with the Gamertag. The Xbox support guys say that there is no way to associate them again either.

This 360 experience is starting to get to me. From a RROD, to the inability to play Arcade games that I own for 3 month's due to said RROD until they finally flipped the switch to fix that, to this. Such amazing potential being destroyed by such awkward back end shenanigans.
 
I've heard of this, but not with Silver accounts. Sometimes people who have Gold accounts, cancel the credit card tied to their subscription. At either 1 year renewal or monthly charge time there is no card to pay for the subscription. After some time, the account 'expires' (according the EULA) and is deemed 'never recoverable'.

I'm curious how a Silver account expires? I can only think that somewhere in the EULA it says that if even Silver accounts remain offline for a set period of time they go inactive and are subject to 'expire'

I would think this prevents people from making a ton of silver accounts to reserve Live names. It clears up unused names for others coming into the Live system. It actually makes sense, but is unfortunate for some I guess. Likely in the EULA ... MS is likely not out to get you or your son but rather set rules to regulate Lives available name pool.

Has you son been offline for quite a long time?
 
I just don't understand how an ID can expire, but they don't remove it from the system.. When Live first came out on the Xbox, I was one of early adopters. I used the name Mastershredder, and had it for about a year before I cancelled it. Fast forward to when the Xbox 360 comes out.. Microsoft told me there was no way to get that ID because it was tied to a credit card that "expired". Yes, the card expired (as all credit cards do), but I still had a visa from the same company with the same #, just a different expiration date.

They said there was nothing they could do and I had to choose another name. What kind of crap is that? If the ID is expired, WIPE IT! First come, first serve. What a flawed piece of crap system...
 
So was your 360 connected to your network or did you play offline always?
 
theNoid said:
I've heard of this, but not with Silver accounts. Sometimes people who have Gold accounts, cancel the credit card tied to their subscription. At either 1 year renewal or monthly charge time there is no card to pay for the subscription. After some time, the account 'expires' (according the EULA) and is deemed 'never recoverable'.
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Doing that is pretty stupid though... you should never cancel a card that's associated with a recurring payment without first cancelling the payment. You can get yourself into all sorts of crap.
 
Psychotext said:
Doing that is pretty stupid though... you should never cancel a card that's associated with a recurring payment without first cancelling the payment. You can get yourself into all sorts of crap.
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Absolutely. I read a thread (somewhere on the net lol) recently where some guy was complaining about this. He was blaming MS for locking his account indefinitely when he canceled his credit card with reoccurring payments on it. He basically said that "Microsoft should have known since I hadn't signed into Live for months."

I couldn't help but laugh, it was classic.

edit ** Scratch what I said, OP updated below
 
theNoid said:
Has you son been offline for quite a long time?
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No. He uses it at least once a week, and I'm on my gold account about the same. This wasn't an inactive Gamertag, it was an inactive Live ID that was tied to the Gamertag.
 
CitizenTony said:
No. He uses it at least once a week, and I'm on my gold account about the same. This wasn't an inactive Gamertag, it was an inactive Live ID that was tied to the Gamertag.
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Ah so the problem here is the Windows Live ID associated with his gamertag expired? Wow, I'm not even sure how that would happen. Besides signing into xbox.com or zune.net every couple of months I never even use my Live ID.

I'm curious what Microsoft says, or what Major Nelson says. (If Larry is working on this for you, thats pretty impressive).
 
theNoid said:
Ah so the problem here is the Windows Live ID associated with his gamertag expired? Wow, I'm not even sure how that would happen. Besides signing into xbox.com or zune.net every couple of months I never even use my Live ID.

I'm curious what Microsoft says, or what Major Nelson says. (If Larry is working on this for you, thats pretty impressive).
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Exactly. I only use my Live ID to pay for my Gold access. He never had a need for it so it just sat there. Come time to upgrade to Gold, and the Live ID has been expired. He still uses the Email account that the Live ID was attached to, but it's of our domain not live.com.

When we tried to log into the Live.com ID, it told us it was dead. The Gamertag still works, it just can't be updated anymore, so if he wants to keep his saved games and Gamerscore he's out of luck on upgrading to Gold. If he wants to upgrade, he has to make a new Tag and associate it with his new Live ID (and log into it every few month's). I don't think us Gold users are affected due to the recurring subscription.

I emailed Major Nelson and he replied back within 20 minutes saying he'd look into it. This morning I got a phone message from a corporate MS employee saying he was on the case, so I left him a message. I'll be sure to update here when I hear something.

Hopefully they can just flip a switch in the background since it's an active Silver account and let us re-associate the Gamertag with a new Live ID so he doesn't lose so much progress. He's pretty attached to that Tag and his Gamerscore.
 
CitizenTony said:
Exactly. I only use my Live ID to pay for my Gold access. He never had a need for it so it just sat there. Come time to upgrade to Gold, and the Live ID has been expired. He still uses the Email account that the Live ID was attached to, but it's of our domain not live.com.

When we tried to log into the Live.com ID, it told us it was dead. The Gamertag still works, it just can't be updated anymore, so if he wants to keep his saved games and Gamerscore he's out of luck on upgrading to Gold. If he wants to upgrade, he has to make a new Tag and associate it with his new Live ID (and log into it every few month's). I don't think us Gold users are affected due to the recurring subscription.

I emailed Major Nelson and he replied back within 20 minutes saying he'd look into it. This morning I got a phone message from a corporate MS employee saying he was on the case, so I left him a message. I'll be sure to update here when I hear something.

Hopefully they can just flip a switch in the background since it's an active Silver account and let us re-associate the Gamertag with a new Live ID so he doesn't lose so much progress. He's pretty attached to that Tag and his Gamerscore.
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Woah, you emailed major nelson and he personally responded and is looking into the issue? That's bad ass man.
 
No good endings here. Steve from MS corporate and I finally got hold of each other and there is nothing that can be done. He said he's only heard of the issue once before and promises to bring it up at the next meeting.

The Live ID expired so long ago that they can't go in to untie it from the Gamertag. Which means he has to start over with a new Gamertag or stay at Silver for ever on the current one. Bummer. Hopefully this doesn't happen to anyone else.

I think I may send an email to some of the big blogs so they can hopefully warn others about this.

Lesson learned: Log into your Live.com ID that's associated with your Gamertag at least once a year else it may expire and you will be out of luck when you want to upgrade your account to Gold.
 
CitizenTony: did you ever get anywhere with this problem? I'm having the exact same issue, and tech support has been useless so far. I learned more from this post than I did in two hours on the phone with them.

Is there anyone I can email? Harass? Let me know.

- sj
 
I could only see this happening if it was an original xbox live account that were transfered to the 360's new live system at launch. There is no reason that any account created on a 360 one-month gold trial or a fresh silver account should ever expire.
 
I am living proof that I can happen.

I decided I wanted a silver account a while back (so I could send a car to a friend in Forza), so I signed up. I had to create a new Windows Live ID, which I did then immediately forgot about. I never used that ID again (except, presumably, when signing into my XBOX).

My gamertag, live ID, and silver membership were all created on the XBOX 360, yet the ID has now expired. Very frustrating.

- sj

Note: it is the Windows Live ID that has expired, not the Silver membership. In fact, Microsoft didn't stop me from buying points on the account to download Braid, nor does it stop me from having a friend's list or downloading demos. It only complained when I went to upgrade to a Gold account.
 
No update. According to the higher up reps there is nothing that can be done. We created a new profile and Live ID and will make sure the ID is used about once a month I guess.

And as VitaminJ noted, it's the Live ID that expires not the Gamertag.
 
This same damned thing has just happened to me. I'm now wanting to upgrade to gold so I can start streaming moves with Netflix, and tech support tells me the email address associated with my account has expired. WTF!?!?!

This is obviously going to become a major issue with more and more people discovering they can't "upgrade" to gold. Tech support tells me I should just create a new gamertag, but I shouldn't have to do that. This is ridiculous. With this obviously becoming an issue they will have to fix, I don't know whether to wait for them to fix it or create a new gamertag and lose everything.
 
This just happened to me. I bought Dawn of War 2 for the PC weeks ago and apparantly my Live account expired a couple days ago. I was on the phone for 30 minutes with Microsoft today and the only advice they gave me was to create a new account. Since I can't log in to my gamer tag now inside the game, I've essentially lost all progress I've made in the game over 2 weeeks (your gamer tag saves all progress). See my Steam thread here:
http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=815840

I've always thought people who've said "I'm not buying a game that uses ___." were crazy, but I'm never buying a Games For Windows Live game again.
 
CitizenTony said:
Lesson learned: Log into your Live.com ID that's associated with your Gamertag at least once a year else it may expire and you will be out of luck when you want to upgrade your account to Gold.
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There is a fix for this too. Have your XBOX sign into messenger also. That's what I do. Granted, the e-mail associated with Live Messenger is on my personal domain.
 
I log into xbox's website daily to check messages or whatnot, so I've never had an issue. Just bookmark the site and visit it now and then.
 
I dont see why they dont just let you use any email address to tie to your account, like any other machine out there
 
Dew said:
There is a fix for this too. Have your XBOX sign into messenger also. That's what I do. Granted, the e-mail associated with Live Messenger is on my personal domain.
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It was a kid's account so it wouldn't let him use messenger anyway, but I've done this with my account and his new one for this purpose.

Focker said:
I log into xbox's website daily to check messages or whatnot, so I've never had an issue. Just bookmark the site and visit it now and then.
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That wouldn't help in this case. It was the live.com account that needed logging in to, not the Xbox part. Their split into two accounts and you have to keep both active.

I saw articles from the big games blogs and Major Nelson discussing this issue (or something similar) a few weeks ago so it seems it's getting more attention now which is nice. I don't know why none of them posted anything when I emailed them month's ago though.
 
Weird. My Live ID expires all the time and I just go in to renew it every year. My XBL account still works fine, though.

Mines gold and always has been, though.
 
If it wasn't for live cashback I would've never signed into my live account. This is troubling as I have no use for the live account aside from making the gamertag and as noted above to check on cashback. Now that cashback is essentially dead I'll have to force myself to login once every month or so ugh.
 
My XBL account was gold had expired for over a year and keep sending me emails to renew it( same name and same account)
 
Sucks for some here. I did not have this problem. My Gold account expired for similar reasons. The CC that I used since the launch of the Xbox 360 was no longer valid due to a newer CC I received. I wasn't playing my Xbox 360 much at the time anyways so I didn't pay it no mind. When I did go back to it a few months later, there was no way I could get back my gamertag top gold status through the system or the website. I called In and it took no longer than 5 minutes for the lady to recover my gamertag, change the CC applied to it & re up me for a year. Gamertags can be recovered. I just think that some peopled got BS'ed around by lazy workers.
 
Rash said:
I dont see why they dont just let you use any email address to tie to your account, like any other machine out there
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they do let you use another email provider, i used yahoo once to make silver account.
 
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