PC gaming is still alive because the mod scene is still alive. If you're only playing commercial releases and judging the PC platform by those then you are doing it wrong. All arguments aside, PCs will always have its amazing talent pool of modders that consoles can only dream of due to proprietary limitations.
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Xbox 360 has ruined pc gaming forever
- Thread starter ShuttleLuv
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ShuttleLuv
Supreme [H]ardness
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Wow this thread has turned into SHIT. I thought we were all adults here, boys?
Keep it clean and mature, or I'll request it closed. I was merely ranting and I told you all I am not anti console or anti "360".
Keep it clean and mature, or I'll request it closed. I was merely ranting and I told you all I am not anti console or anti "360".
chinaboy1021
Weaksauce
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I agree PC gaming is mehhh lately. I dont understand how video card manufacteurs still selling when there are so few good games that require the current released technology.....
While I am not a fan of the genre, I think that games like the SIMS and World of Warcraft are actually what is saving it. These games appeal to a very large percentage of the masses and show viability for PC gaming as an industry. The hard core FPS players are further and farther between than we like to think.
They make a lot of money, but games of that popularity are rare. Two franchises alone can't save a platform. I don't think PC gaming needs saving though. Despite the shift on consoles, PC is still the home for indie studios. A place where an indie studio can make and release a game by themselves without having to follow the strict guidelines of a first party or a publisher. Beyond that, its also where some niche genres can "thrive" I doubt we'll ever see a big push for Adventure games on consoles anymore. Games like Sins of a Solar Empire and Witcher can only call the PC home (console versions of Witcher are going to be mostly remade for the market). PC gaming isn't a market where you're going to see a lot of Halo, Gears, etc level sales but it never really was.
xSystemFailurex
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The point is that at this rate, there will be nothing but console ports available for the PC in a few years. Look at Dawn of War 2. No one's gonna play that on console, yet its interface has huge buttons, could totally be navigated by a gamepad, and Games for Windows Live (A.K.A. Xbox live for Windows) is basically required. I have nothing against GFWL or XBL, matter of fact I happen to like both. The sad fact is, all gaming is destined to be consolized someday, if only because game devs like making money.
Hate to break it to you geeks (myself included) but the average Joe consumer doesn't give two donkey balls about everything you're crying about. Matter of fact, if Mr Joe saw this thread I'd bet him and his friends would laugh for days at us whiney nerds. Just because you (we've) been gaming for 10, 20, 30 years doesn't grant us any entitlement. We are just as equal as Joe himself actually, none the less. The market has shifted, gaming is socially acceptable around the world now. Women are the fastest growing segment of gaming consumer market. Older folks are gaming, people are gaming on their cell phones .... times are changing.
The good 'ol days of the underground PC gaming scene are toast. Developers see the money on all platforms, and are hardly interested in appeasing a few geeks when they see money raining from the sky in the other direction. Make no mistake, things will never be what they were. PC gaming will have a resurgence at some point (likely with the Diablo 3 release), and it will have its time to shine again. However for the time being, nobody, no one console is to blame for anything. Society and the market has changed so much that your precious underground PC dreams have been washed over by a wave of change.
My suggestion? Buy a few platforms (console, handhelds) and just enjoy the ride.
The good 'ol days of the underground PC gaming scene are toast. Developers see the money on all platforms, and are hardly interested in appeasing a few geeks when they see money raining from the sky in the other direction. Make no mistake, things will never be what they were. PC gaming will have a resurgence at some point (likely with the Diablo 3 release), and it will have its time to shine again. However for the time being, nobody, no one console is to blame for anything. Society and the market has changed so much that your precious underground PC dreams have been washed over by a wave of change.
My suggestion? Buy a few platforms (console, handhelds) and just enjoy the ride.
PiratePowWow
Limp Gawd
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You only need one franchise to save a platform and that is Mario. Search your feelings, you know it to be true.
Spare-Flair
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Screw average Joe. I've never been interested in anything average joe likes aside from Pro Sports and McDonalds and Wal-Mart. Everything else though..I like to think I have better taste.
damonposey
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That's like saying Jonas Brothers and Nickelback are what is saving rock and roll. hardly a good thing.
Oh oh, you didn't just save that. Expect Piracy 11!! Strong !1!! force to come out any second now and denounce you.
damonposey
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I think piracy is a factor as well.
What if WoW was able to be pirated. you could download it, and play with other paying users. How many of those 15 million users would voluntarily pay the subscription fee? Not many, and not enough for it to keep going, or at least keep getting new content all the time. So yes piracy is very relevant to shaping PC gaming.
What if WoW was able to be pirated. you could download it, and play with other paying users. How many of those 15 million users would voluntarily pay the subscription fee? Not many, and not enough for it to keep going, or at least keep getting new content all the time. So yes piracy is very relevant to shaping PC gaming.
That is how it works. Anyone with a vested interest will jump and scream that piracy has nothing to do with the huge drop in sales. One of the big topics lately is thepiratebay on trial and everyone with vested interest coming out and saying that their website somehow helps the software world.
Sure
Uhh...YOU CAN! Its called private servers. Almost every MMO out there has private servers that can be played on for free. Some of them are even well supported and stable. You can't play with other paying users, but really thats the only part of your ill-informed point that doesn't fit.
Piracy is grossly overstated. The RIAA, MPAA, and ESA would all like us to believe that piracy is costing people billions of dollars every year. The fact is, it isn't. Good games, movies, and music all sell. Sometimes shitty games, movies, and music sell better than the good ones. On the PC there is one simple fact: If your game sucks no one will buy it. Whether they pirate it to test it out first and it sucks or they hear via word of mouth or reviews that it sucks doesn't matter. Shitty games don't sell on the PC. Games that no one knows about also don't sell (that'd be DMC4's issue).
Spaceman_Spiff
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Piracy is very relevant on this topic mostly because consoles present a viable alternative where it is not as much of an issue. Given the choice between several platforms, a larger install base plus less piracy concerns on one platform seems like quite an advantage. This has nothing to do with controls, technology, or anything else. Its simple business.
Only on the PS3 is it not an issue. The Wii and 360 are painfully easy to pirate games on these days.
Screw average Joe. I've never been interested in anything average joe likes aside from Pro Sports and McDonalds and Wal-Mart. Everything else though..I like to think I have better taste.
Me too man, me too
I miss the glory years of PC gaming (90s), but those times are behind us. I'm looking forward to Diablo 3, but until then I'm 100% console and iPhone gaming. Mainly because my gf loves to game with me, and I'm a sucker for females who game I think most of us can agree that the RIAA and similar bodies overstate piracy but people who come out with arguments like yours imply that piracy has little if any effect (which makes the RIAA a lot closer to the actual number). This is just not true. I buy all my music on the internet out of the respect for the artist but I have asked probably 50 people over the last 3 years, the geeky type and everyone of them stated that they have never bought a single digital or physical song in the last 10 years. The idea that piracy has zero effect is just upsurd.
I also asked these people about retail or OEM versions of windows since they all build their machines. I did get a few who bought OEM version (I have bought no less than 5) but the vast majority use pirated copies. To say that piracy has zero effect is ridiculous. Do you think that these guys were going to use Linux? No a chance. Microsoft lost out on plenty of Windows sales.
Please don't put words in my mouth or learn to read, whichever fits this situation better. Now to the me being an asshole part of this post:
Where the fuck did I say it had zero effect? Overstated does NOT mean has no effect. If you're going to try to debate what I said don't put words in my fucking mouth.
redbonefish
Limp Gawd
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he has some truth
How are RIAA, MPAA or ESA any relevant to a discussion about pc games piracy? Are you trying to discredit any argument against pc piracy by equating pc piracy opponents with riaa / mpaa and any other anti p2p evil, because that does not make for a great counter argument.
Sad thing is that a lot of great games get pirated as well to huge extents so making a great game is no sure guarantee of it being piracy proof.
MrGuvernment
Fully [H]
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Threads like this appear once month, and the conclusion is always the same.
PC > Console.
BYE!!! *Hides from console fanboys....*
+ infinityx2
Um, for all other NON MS games? Valve, Epic, rockstar, blizzard...
damonposey
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Wrong. on private servers it's no longer a 'massive' multiplayer online rpg, therefore it's really not the same game. If you really think playing on private servers gives you an equal gameplay experience, then you just haven't played the game.
You fell into my trap quite nicely there!
My point wasn't to discredit any argument about it, my point was that those three entities would like us to believe its a far bigger problem than it is. The ESA is valid because its the Entertainment Software Association, the RIAA or MPAA of the gaming industry, at least to an extent.
Nothing will ever be pirate proof, but making a great game is the best way to get people to buy it. Despite Crytek's piss poor marketing, Crysis sold what three million copies? Thats damn good for a game that Crytek passed off as only being worth playing at the highest settings. Games like the Sims and WoW are in the league of their own for obvious reasons, but good games do still sell. The PC market is big on the whole word-of-mouth thing, more so than the console market.
When the larger private servers have thousands upon thousands of active players I'd call that "massive" enough. The bigger ones work on updating their own servers to support Blizzard's official patches. They work to keep their servers up and running and so on.
I haven't played on any private servers actually, I just know they're there and what I hear about them. I have zero interest in MMOs.
Private MMO servers are typically incredibly gimped. Including; Not containing all retail-server content, not all in-game features are available, typically bad netcode.
They can provide a unique experience, but they're absolutely unlike and below the quality of the retail servers.
What that means for piracy, I don't know.
They can provide a unique experience, but they're absolutely unlike and below the quality of the retail servers.
What that means for piracy, I don't know.
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Guys, this thread is taking a bad turn. Keep the discussion civil and on-topic or it gets locked.
boomheadshot45
Gawd
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"This is not a troll thread." You can't say that x console ruined PC gaming and not sound trollish. Anyways what do you expect? There is money in the 360, why wouldn't developers make games for it, and of course publishers just make them port it to 360, for money. You act as if PC gaming is dying because of it. Creative Assembly, Valve (PC is their primary), Blizzard, etc. With Valve and Blizzard, you have the most consistent developers of our time, how is the 360 ruining PC gaming again?
Don't blame the console. Its a console, it doesn't put a gun to publishers' heads and make them create a shitty PC port.
Don't blame the console. Its a console, it doesn't put a gun to publishers' heads and make them create a shitty PC port.
Acoustique
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eh i still reckon is MS made their next console with a controller that simulates keyboard and mouse operation, dosnt have to be a full keyboard and the two could be connected to each other so it would be a single unit 90% of you would be keen on it.
Gameplay would change abit i reckon if valve had that controller at their disposal there is no way there would of been that special xbox version, honestly their is no way your going to be doing those puzzles on the PC with thumbsticks.... well not with skill anyway, high sensitivity and luck?
if they want diablo 3 and world of warcraft console version they best consider have a radical overhaul of the way you communicate with consoles, if a game is primarily made for console with a PC port in mind its going to be made to workaround thumbsticks, if it was made to operate a KB + M combo then gameplay is going to be alot deeper.
Wii had a very different controller and look how popular that is
Gameplay would change abit i reckon if valve had that controller at their disposal there is no way there would of been that special xbox version, honestly their is no way your going to be doing those puzzles on the PC with thumbsticks.... well not with skill anyway, high sensitivity and luck?
if they want diablo 3 and world of warcraft console version they best consider have a radical overhaul of the way you communicate with consoles, if a game is primarily made for console with a PC port in mind its going to be made to workaround thumbsticks, if it was made to operate a KB + M combo then gameplay is going to be alot deeper.
Wii had a very different controller and look how popular that is
xBabyJesus
n00b
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The difference between the 10 foot experience and PC gaming is much deeper than the controller. There will always be seperate markets for PC vs Console, as long as both are relevant, differentiated platforms.
Microsoft has been very consistent about delivering XBOX as a "10ft experience" and not a PC replacement. There's more "risk" of cross-pollination with the HTPC and DVR/Streaming space then with traditional M+KB and Internet Explorer / PC space.
I've heard it reported that Microsoft has lost more money to piracy than it's made. Think about that -- more copies of Windows/Office/SQL have been pirated than have been sold. Most of that is grey market (illegal reselling) or straight user piracy in international markets. Any way you want to justify that, it's theft.
Good games sell. Diablo 3, Starcraft 2, Halflife 3 aren't going to have any issues. WoW.next, same thing.
Microsoft has been very consistent about delivering XBOX as a "10ft experience" and not a PC replacement. There's more "risk" of cross-pollination with the HTPC and DVR/Streaming space then with traditional M+KB and Internet Explorer / PC space.
I've heard it reported that Microsoft has lost more money to piracy than it's made. Think about that -- more copies of Windows/Office/SQL have been pirated than have been sold. Most of that is grey market (illegal reselling) or straight user piracy in international markets. Any way you want to justify that, it's theft.
Good games sell. Diablo 3, Starcraft 2, Halflife 3 aren't going to have any issues. WoW.next, same thing.
The way the economy is now, PC gaming is going to kill itself. People are just getting tired of upgrading PC hardware every year or two. The average consumer naturally is going to gravitate towards consoles because of lack of PC upgrade knowledge and because consoles are cheaper and easier to use. With that in mind the game industry knows that they can move more units through console sales than PC, thus more games being made for consoles. I love gaming with a mouse and keyboard, but I can't afford it anymore.
ShuttleLuv
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Crock of shit.
Spaceman_Spiff
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Wii may be easy to pirate, but virtually nobody cares to do it because wii users are not the most tech savvy bunch. 360 you can do it but you can't play online, and voiding your warranty is a risky proposition to say the least for that machine. Either way you need to make physical modifications to the hardware, which in and of itself is a deterrent for most people. People often argue that console gamers are such kids and can't handle upgrading and maintaining a gaming pc, so its tough to also argue most of them are eager to open up their console and modify the hardware.
S1N3R6Y said:
Pc gaming as we know it has certainly changed and I think the heyday of needing the newest and best hardware may be gone. I fail to see how this is a bad thing. In the past few years hardware has definitely gotten cheaper, with more emphasis placed on mid range (<$200) cards. Cross platform development has probably led to less demanding graphics in many cases as well. The fact is you don't need a $500 graphics card to enjoy pc gaming. If you want to experience pc gaming as it was intended, you need to spend more than a console, sure, but you certainly don't need top end hardware.
Also though, with the rise of casual gaming and smaller downloadable games made possible through xbla and steam, there's a whole new segment of games out there that don't need fancy hardware at all. It all depends on your perspective. If you can't "enjoy" pc gaming without maxing the resolution, filtering, and anitaliasing on your 30" monitor, then yeah, maybe its dying and becoming too expensive, but otherwise its not that bad.
What moron told you that you can't play online with a modified 360? Also it seems that people who do modify their consoles have less chances of a RROD due to all the solutions out there. Mine (now my brother's, but whatever) is an 06 model and it has never RROD'd before. Anyway, yeah its a bit of a deterrent for all but the more tech savvy. Of course thats usually the group you see pirating on the PC, at least as far as the major piraters go. You don't see many non-techie people bother with pirating (or PC gaming for that matter). Console piracy is a lot less than PC, but its getting there. One of these days someone is going to figure out how to pirate PS3 games.
Spare-Flair
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Take a look at the Rainbow Six series and you can see what a negative impact the Xbox has on classic PC franchises.
damonposey
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more like xbox360. Raven shield, my favorite iteration of r6 franchise had joint development with xbox, as you can tell by some ini files(even though the xbox version was named something different), yet it rocks. it was the one with the guy with cornrows that started screwing everything up.