Xbox 360 has ruined pc gaming forever

Mr. Bluntman said:
Only if the fundamental shift continues. I don't care so much as long as the port is done properly and offers us PC gamers a reason to buy said port over the console version, and there continues to be worthwhile exclusives that takes full advantage of what our superior platform of choice can offer...:
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So what exactly do you want here? Besides resolution options, good code, and good gamepad support, I don't see anything that developers should have to included a game just to pander the elitist PC gamers.

That said, I think all of this has been great for PC gaming. In the past few years the PC has seen a much wider variety in types of games and quality of games than ever before. PC gaming was stagnating, with MMOs, RTS, and First Person Shooters being all that was being payed any attention. Fact is, there have been ports of many console games for a long time now. But they get overlooked by PC gamers. Developers try to throw a bone and say hey, there is some great stuff going on over here, but noooooo It doesn't feel good with my keyboard and super mouse, it doesn't have the latest shaders, and doesn't give me a reason to upgrade my heatsink so I'm not gonna bother.

Its true that many have yet to figure out a good model to successfully port their games across several platforms. With consoles being very very advanced now, their closed environments and proprietary code is becoming more of a problem for PCs and other platforms to brute force smooth operation out of. Whereas in the Past, you could crap out a PS2 port onto PC and it would run smooth as hell, you just can't do that anymore. And its not just PC that's having this problem, there are plenty of PS3 gamers with their hands raised, too. A few companies, like Capcom, Epic, and probably Valve, have things mostly figured out, but most companies are still trying to keep their old development models, when really each system is so different now that more care than ever is needed.
 
Converge said:
When you get more in depth and examine the details you will see the truth. Low quality games. Low quality devs. A lot.
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I'm not sure if I would say the developers are "low quality". When you're able to wade beneath all of the shit, you can generally find a good, compelling game. Take Oblivion, for example. When you take a list of all the poor decision made to appease the console crowd (the bad GUI, the offensive leveling system, the watered-down visuals), you end up with the framework of an entirely decent game. Fundamentally, what you're left with is deep, compelling and stimulating. From a production values standpoint, a lot of these games are actually really outstanding.

Unfortunately, a game is always the sum of its parts and these issues tend to make games much less appealing than they could otherwise be. It's not that the developers are bad at what they do, per se, it's that they're being directed to make something that's only targeted at maximizing console sales. The leap from FEAR to FEAR 2 shows pretty plainly what kinds of things developers do when they're trying to compete with the other dozens of cookie-cutter console shooters: lower the FOV, simplify the controls and gameplay, make everything HARDER FASTER LOUDER and over-stylize the visuals until it's only vaguely apparent to players as to what's going on. Generally, if you can check all of these boxes, you get a competitive console game. You also get a pretty worthless PC game -- not that publishers care about that, of course.
 
Frostex said:
There is a more general problem with consoles and PC games where the restrictions of the consoles are getting imposed on the PC, when a game is built for both platforms.

It's not specific to the xbox360, although because of it's DirectX based architecture being so similar to the PC it's much easier to build cross platform games, so it's happening more and more.



Valve are effected by this also just less so, TF2 IMHO was dumbed down with crits etc, most of the old TFC players agree that it's dumbed down. The gameplay of L4D was pretty simplisitc (anyone got that game on release that isn't bored of it now?) the server picker was clearly designed for console users.
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How else would you set up a co-op game like Left 4 Dead without matchmaking? Traditional server browsers would not work at all.
 
I don't think pc gaming is technically dying. There are still plenty of PC Games around. But I think overall PC gaming has been losing its identity over that past few years. And even Valve has gone multiplatform with TF2 and L4D.
 
ShuttleLuv said:
^ exactly but it's because of Xbox. Trust me bro.
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A large part of it involves the Xbox. The whole point of the Xbox from Microsofts business model was to attract a large portion of PC developers who were already familiar with making PC games. And add a static hardware set for easier and lowered development costs. Then make money off licensing fees.

You started to see well known PC franchises go console during the fist Xbox's lifetime (Deus Ex 2 anyone?, Thief 3 etc). Its not a coincidence. It was simply MS's business model.

Also in the long term I wonder if this will evolve into a convergence of PC/Console platforms. Every generation you see consoles become more like PC's. And every generation you see PC games become more like console games... Just something to think about.
 
I agree with the OP. Microsoft doesn't want the pc to be any better than the x360. They've practically made it so pc games are limited to dvd constraints, dx, and ddl. Where is the HD Audio we were supposed to get with Vista? Redbook, when it was used in some games, a long ass time ago, is far closer to HD Audio than the mp3 audio in games today.

This generation, imo, has produced the two most over-rated piles of shit ever. The x360, and the wii.
 
Not every ported game is bad.

CoD 4 was fine if not great. Bioshock felt a bit clunky but overall it was still a decent game. I enjoyed the FEAR 2 demo but I'm going to wait until it's cheap before I pick it up since apparently the multi-player is a dud.

When you look past the multi-platform blockbusters there have still been enough PC exclusives to make me happy. There have been several good RTS games in the last few years as well as good FPS games (Stalker and Crysis series come to mind).

While I think the PC has a healthy amount of titles the argument still holds some water. Far Cry 2 was a decent game. It had the potential to be great though and some seemingly obvious missing features really took alot away. The inability to prone or lean was a big detractor. The lack of mission variety and insta-respawning checkpoints were an issue on every platform so I don't think it can be blamed on consolitis. It's more of an issue with Ubisoft probably pushing the deadline and all the devs had enough time for was to get the engine right.

GTAIV was another mis-fire that suffered in transfer to the pc. IMO, the GTA series isn't well suited for pc play in general and I think the lukewarm sales of the previous titles are why rockstar didn't really try apparently.

Meh...I'm rambling but the pc is fine. Hopefully DICE will release BF3 soon enough.
 
Microsoft wants pc gamers via xbox, but not a better experience than xbox via PC. Thats my best take on the situation.
 
no2censorship said:
I agree with the OP. Microsoft doesn't want the pc to be any better than the x360. They've practically made it so pc games are limited to dvd constraints, dx, and ddl. Where is the HD Audio we were supposed to get with Vista? Redbook, when it was used in some games, a long ass time ago, is far closer to HD Audio than the mp3 audio in games today.

This generation, imo, has produced the two most over-rated piles of shit ever. The x360, and the wii.
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DVD constraints? How the fuck is that MS' fault? Its not like the PC community is adopting Blu-Ray quickly. Its not like PC games really need it, yet. Hell we only moved to all DVD a few years ago. What exactly is wrong with DX? Digital downloads are the way the industry is moving. With or without MS supporting it its going that way.

HD audio is supported, but no one uses it. Not MS' fault. How many people can you name with a set-up capable of truly taking advantage of HD audio? I sure don't know anyone with tens of thousands of dollars worth of high end audio equipment able to do so.
 
sk8rdd00 said:
A large part of it involves the Xbox. The whole point of the Xbox from Microsofts business model was to attract a large portion of PC developers who were already familiar with making PC games. And add a static hardware set for easier and lowered development costs. Then make money off licensing fees.

You started to see well known PC franchises go console during the fist Xbox's lifetime (Deus Ex 2 anyone?, Thief 3 etc). Its not a coincidence. It was simply MS's business model.

Also in the long term I wonder if this will evolve into a convergence of PC/Console platforms. Every generation you see consoles become more like PC's. And every generation you see PC games become more like console games... Just something to think about.
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Developing for a console is easier, not cheaper. This has been stated before. The PC is one of the cheapest platforms to develop on, but its also one of the hardest. Those licensing and royalties fees factor into development cost and they're far from cheap.
 
OP is kinda right. most people are playing games that are 3+ years old.
 
another whiney OP, lol if you read reviews and get some input, you would know what games are good on the PC (COD 4 for example) and what games are good on the console......
 
sk8rdd00 said:
Also in the long term I wonder if this will evolve into a convergence of PC/Console platforms. Every generation you see consoles become more like PC's. And every generation you see PC games become more like console games... Just something to think about.
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I agree here...so, question: Would an XBox 360 - with the live experience - minus the modability of games (I say this, so that the xbox would remain a closed platform and not as easily hackable) with a KB/Mouse shut most people up (assuming games would be designed to use the kb/mouse)?
 
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All I've got to say on the subject.
 
Derangel said:
L4D's server issues are not the fault of it being multiplatform. Its a fault of the developer never having made a multiplayer game before. You have to realize Turtle Rock Studios came from the ashes of Trokia, a RPG developer. A good portion of the game was done before Valve bought them. They fucked up, its their fault. Its not the fault of it being on a console seeing as they didn't have to design anything on that end. Live is designed so that a developer can pop in the code, set-up the UI, and bam. Its simple and quick.

Dead Space's controls are just fine. There is some glitch with vSync that messes with the mouse speed. Disabling vSync fixes it.

GTAIV, again, its all on Rockstar's ass. Nothing to do with it being multiplatform.

None of this is new. If you've been playing PC games long enough you'd know this. You have to take the good with the bad and figure out what does and doesn't count as game breaking for you.
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I've been playing PC games for around 12-13 years. I haven't seen it as bad as late. You can sit here and try to alleviate all the problems from the developers, microsoft whoever, but the fact remains for me that I've never seen such a crap amount of games and most of them have been ported over from the 360 while I remember it being the reverse. There is a game once in a while that will awe me, but that's becoming less and less.
 
bboynitrous said:
I've been playing PC games for around 12-13 years. I haven't seen it as bad as late. You can sit here and try to alleviate all the problems from the developers, microsoft whoever, but the fact remains for me that I've never seen such a crap amount of games and most of them have been ported over from the 360 while I remember it being the reverse. There is a game once in a while that will awe me, but that's becoming less and less.
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what he said^
 
no2censorship said:
I agree with the OP. Microsoft doesn't want the pc to be any better than the x360. They've practically made it so pc games are limited to dvd constraints, dx, and ddl. Where is the HD Audio we were supposed to get with Vista? Redbook, when it was used in some games, a long ass time ago, is far closer to HD Audio than the mp3 audio in games today.

This generation, imo, has produced the two most over-rated piles of shit ever. The x360, and the wii.
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what abut the ps3? not overated? for me the 360 is a useless peice of shit because of the rrod mess it has and the wii is an overhyped product and wherever i go to someones house with a wii, i see alot of dust on it
 
the more disturbing part is consoles games dont have much depth in terms of gameplay so that sort of stuff being ported to the PC is really annoying, now if consoles would be more happy to adapt keyboard and mouse styles of controllers they could have greater depth and an even wider audience.

I have an xbox360 and love it for things like fable 2/dead rising/soul calibur 4 but by no means is it for FPS games, autoaim is lame, it shames me :)
 
Acoustique said:
the more disturbing part is consoles games dont have much depth in terms of gameplay so that sort of stuff being ported to the PC is really annoying, now if consoles would be more happy to adapt keyboard and mouse styles of controllers they could have greater depth and an even wider audience.

I have an xbox360 and love it for things like fable 2/dead rising/soul calibur 4 but by no means is it for FPS games, autoaim is lame, it shames me :)
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I don't think the lack of a keyboard and mouse is the reason for "lack of depth." I think that's an excuse. The truth is that the console audience is different than the PC audience. They have lower standards for what is acceptable gameplay. Yes menus and things of that nature need to be done differently between the two, but that doesn't effect gameplay. Even if the controls were part of the reason, it doesn't change the fact that games are getting shorter, stories are worse, game features are lacking, and the gameplay is too easy and often too repetative. Basically games on the console are action driven, and there is no time spent exploring the enviroment. Partly because differences in memory and console design prohibit the same type of maps and levels that we can have on the PC side. Yet the consoles are the bigger money makers, and as a result, game companies are spending more time making games that are easier for them to make. The gameplay is more static and "2 dimensional."
 
PC gaming isn't ruined forever, this will get better, when they stop porting the dumbed-down console-crap to the PC.
 
Atech said:
PC gaming isn't ruined forever, this will get better, when they stop porting the dumbed-down console-crap to the PC.
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The problem is that the developers are doing less PC work from the look of it. The consoles are their bread winners for the most part.
 
Dan_D said:
The problem is that the developers are doing less PC work from the look of it. The consoles are their bread winners for the most part.
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Then that should create a market for quality games, as most PC people couldn't care less about the console crap...you know, poor graphics, no settings, no mods, crap controls and a gameplay suited towards 13 year old kids...or drunken people.

But now I will soon have Empire - Total war to have fun with...and Arma2...so for me PC gaming isn't all bad ;)
 
Dan_D said:
I don't think the lack of a keyboard and mouse is the reason for "lack of depth." I think that's an excuse. The truth is that the console audience is different than the PC audience. They have lower standards for what is acceptable gameplay. Yes menus and things of that nature need to be done differently between the two, but that doesn't effect gameplay. Even if the controls were part of the reason, it doesn't change the fact that games are getting shorter, stories are worse, game features are lacking, and the gameplay is too easy and often too repetative. Basically games on the console are action driven, and there is no time spent exploring the enviroment. Partly because differences in memory and console design prohibit the same type of maps and levels that we can have on the PC side. Yet the consoles are the bigger money makers, and as a result, game companies are spending more time making games that are easier for them to make. The gameplay is more static and "2 dimensional."
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Well said, this is exactly the problem. Console games are designed for mainstream audiences. As a result, games with any air of complexity have virtually become extinct. Does anyone remember the last time a decent space sim or combat flight sim was released?
 
defiant007 said:
Well said, this is exactly the problem. Console games are designed for mainstream audiences. As a result, games with any air of complexity have virtually become extinct. Does anyone remember the last time a decent space sim or combat flight sim was released?
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No, it has nothing to do with console games, society as a whole (and especially children) want things to be easy and "fair", whether it be games, schooling, credit cards, or whatever. There's no such thing as challenge or hard work anymore...buy a house you can't pay for, get bailed out...spill coffee on yourself, sue mcdonald's. Why not games as well?
 
bboynitrous said:
I've been playing PC games for around 12-13 years. I haven't seen it as bad as late. You can sit here and try to alleviate all the problems from the developers, microsoft whoever, but the fact remains for me that I've never seen such a crap amount of games and most of them have been ported over from the 360 while I remember it being the reverse. There is a game once in a while that will awe me, but that's becoming less and less.
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There has ALWAYS been a shit ton of more bad games than good ones. Thats just the way it goes. If you're only paying attention to the mainstream you're not going to get the full picture.
 
This as usual is pointless but I'll bite. I would say 99% of the population as far as gaming goes only games on their console and not just this generation I'm talking since they were youngsters they remember their first Atari 2600 their first Nintendo the Genesis and Super Nintendo. These CONSOLES practically defined a generation of gamers. Not " Insert obscure PC title 3 people played". Now on to the PS3 360 and Wii we are in a generation where consoles do amazing things and are performing well if not excellent in areas that were the sole province of the PC gamer. No more can you say you can't play a decent FPS on that thing no longer can you say you can't play a decent RTS on that thing. You can't say it but all you can say is that I'd rather play on the PC. Fine knock yourself out and play on the PC with it's obvious advantages(mods, customization,etc.)But this knocking of consoles is becoming flat out stupid.

When I think of the PCit is where simulations live and more complex RTS live (Total War anyone) and mods and customization dominate all great things. But consoles are where Super Mario Brothers lives and Metal Gear lives and GTA lives and Madden lives which surprise are all great and more people relate to than ArmA 2 or whatever else the Hardcore crowd likes.I once tried to play I believe Swat 4 or something it was hailed as this great game by PC gamers to me it sucked ASS because every freaking key on the keyboard had a function it was completely overwhelming and a completely turned me off. This almost ruined for pc gaming for me. Point I'm making is some confuse convolution for complexity and good design where some of the most brilliant controls are accessible and hide a complexity that the gamer can move into (Street Fighter Series, Quake III) and master. To end my rant consoles created more PC gamers than the PC ever did and it's the gateway drug into our hobby. Console games aren't "dumb ed down" at all they just offer a different experience that despite what we rant about most GAMERS enjoy immensely!!!
 
you gotta think though....what if StarCraft II was a console port, or Diablo III? Would they still appeal to the PC gamer mass?
 
Lets not forget if it wasn't for the PC there would be no consoles, after all, consoles are simply dumbed down PCs. The PC has given us 3D graphics, first person shooters and online play to name a few. As long as long there exists a console there will be a PC and vise versa. Consoles will never be better than a PC because consoles are built off the PC. At the very least the PC game experience will be the same experience on a console. The problem is PC gamers do not want this because they expect more out of their games than a console port.

close thread.
close any future discussion on this matter.
 
i have the same problem with the 360.. there are so many games that come out first on the consoles, and are then ported (crappily) to the pc with their crappy console interfaces. whats getting on my nerve even more is that there are more and more console exclusive games. im a die hard pc gamer since the 80s and dont ever plan on switching to consoles. oh, and mouse + kbd > gamepad ALWAYS

but, like someone had mentioned, thank god for valve
 
Agreed. I hate modern consoles and the kind of gaming associated with them more than you can believe. They are just terrible and their leverage in the industry has negatively impacted the entire gaming experience...but when you make the big bucks by selling lowest denominator gaming to the masses, that's what happens. Those of us with bigger imaginations and desires for new and better gaming experiences and artificial worlds, or simply the desire to have freedom of choice in peripherals (precision of keyboard and mouse) are left by the wayside while Halo dorks run rampant.
 
Wow, some of you guys sounds like ridiculous, fanboy, narrow-minded PC snobs. Are there dumb, poor graphics, tripe made for the drooling masses on consoles? Of course. Guess what? There is probably 10x more of that stuff made for the PC gaming world. There are also fantastic gaming experiences to be had on all of the consoles, the Wii included.

A game doesn't have to be complex, use every key on a keyboard, have top notch graphics, HD audio, etc to be worthwhile or fun. To each his own but I think a lot of you guys are doing yourselves an extreme disservice by hjaving such a close minded attitude.

Flame me if you like but please just keep in mind that I play both consoles and PC games and greatly enjoy both and have been doing so for over 20 years.
 
shaunh20 said:
A game doesn't have to be complex, use every key on a keyboard, have top notch graphics, HD audio, etc to be worthwhile or fun. To each his own but I think a lot of you guys are doing yourselves an extreme disservice by hjaving such a close minded attitude.
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When I think of PC games, I think of the variety that existed in the 90s. I loved consoles but that ended with the dreamcast. With current consoles, the variety is lost and all the 3D has ended up with cookie-cutter games in very narrow genres on consoles. PC is no different but the problem is now that with even more resources directed to consoles to make money, the PC is getting even less variety.

It has nothing to do with how much more advanced PCs are than consoles. For me, it is about variety. I feel the latest console generations have fostered an industry that focuses blockbusters on certain genres that are stale and I find irritating.

I'll go back to DOS and play my text adventures or load up MAME and play some arcade games. Maybe I'll try a few games of Wing Commander or Freespace as well.

I've always thought a lot of console gamers, especially the younger generation who has never seen some of gems on PC over the last 10 years which don't fall into the current standard catagories have much lowered standards. I mean, Halo was such a huge hit but I'm betting few of them have ever heard of Starseige Tribes. And everybody was raving at how amazing Call of Duty 4 was but if you've played COD1 and COD2, you can just feel the game oozing the exact same AI scripts and gameplay style and then aside from the graphics, it really isn't groundbreaking or new. My little cousins were raving about how Halo was the best game EVER made and I was facepalming myself.

I'm just sick of console games not actually being innovative and just catching up to PC standards from a decade ago...and then being overhyped as so amazing and everything when there is nothing new there and I feel all this computing power can really be used to create more innovative worlds to explore and be in. Not just cookie cutter FPS's that haven't changed in a decade. And with developers flocking to consoles for the money, what we get on PC - the one platform that is most easily adapted to variety, change, user customization, etc. ends up with poor console ports all the time that runs classic franchises (Rainbow Six anyone?)
 
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