Just ordered the Dell UltraSharp 2209WA

its sunday here and i am expecting my monitor within the week. have a crt to replace so i'll give the input lag measurement a try too.
 
Whoisthisreally said:
So, would I be correct in explaining that the problem lies in unusual or flawed OSD controls, that is:


  1. The Brightness control (backlight luminance) is too high at it's minimum setting.

  2. The Contrast control is not perceptually linear. That is, a small increase in the contrast value causes an unexpectedly large change in gamma.
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The way most LCD's work, they ship with 2.0-2.2 gamma and then you lower the brightness which may cause the gamma to be too dark. Then you *might* have to raise the contrast higher to compensate (but usually don't have to). This panel is the exact opposite, you can lower the brightness all the way to ONE and the default contrast setting is still too high. Any panel that has incorrect gamma and contrast at default settings is a disaster from the start. There's no reason for it to besides laziness or incompetence.

The out of whack contrast and gamma also causes text fringing (until corrected). That's why this panel is a nightmare, incorrect gamma and contrast settings which are going to make it look worse than a calibrated Samsung TN panel without tinkering with the display for like 10 hours with a $200 or higher calibration unit.

Yes, the contrast control is also not linear. Going from 70 to 71 has a big difference, going from 71 to 72 has little if any difference. Not a major problem but just another drop in the bucket of things that make no sense with this panel.

FreeRadical said:
its sunday here and i am expecting my monitor within the week. have a crt to replace so i'll give the input lag measurement a try too.
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It feels like forcing the graphics card to scale in nvidia control panel lowers the input lag to me.
 
Yeah I might do that tomorrow. I figure that 20ms should be right, as it seems that much faster than the 2709W and 2690WUXI in responding to input.

Renoir said:
@10e

Any chance that you will do input lag measurements? It would be nice with a second set of numbers, just to be sure that the input lag is indeed around 20ms. It would be greatly appreciated.
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R0achTheWarHero said:
The way most LCD's work, they ship with 2.0-2.2 gamma and then you lower the brightness which may cause the gamma to be too dark. Then you *might* have to raise the contrast higher to compensate (but usually don't have to). This panel is the exact opposite, you can lower the brightness all the way to ONE and the default contrast setting is still too high. Any panel that has incorrect gamma and contrast at default settings is a disaster from the start. There's no reason for it to besides laziness or incompetence.
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No. Most panels have no connection between gamma curve and the brightness (back light) control. Brightness simply changes backlight intensity. From the info 10e provided there is no indication this panel behaves any different to brightness/backlight inputs.

Despite your typical (for you) doomsday rants, I see zero evidence that this panel ships any more off the mark than the general state of the LCD industry, or any worse than what you seem to hold up as some sort of holy grail. The NEC 20Gx2 shipped very inaccurate out of the box, I remember reading there was significant black crush in it's default setup and the measured result certainly show it did not have perfect factory calibration.

http://www.digitalversus.com/duels.php?ty=6&ma1=36&mo1=101&p1=1021&ma2=52&mo2=261&p2=2486&ph=5

It must really suck to be you. Your one true love monitor died and since they you have had an endless series of "Worse ever" monitor experiences.

For everyone else congratulations on the bargain IPS that can tweak out very nice indeed (epecially if 10e's profile works for you).
 
I got mines two days ago.

I discovered one stuck pixel, think I should return it?

I could potentially get a perfect one but at the same time I could get one that's worse =|

Also, is it normal for the monitor to get brighter after like 10 minutes from startup? I'm guessing it's warming up but I don't know how normal this is.
 
Snowdog said:
No. Most panels have no connection between gamma curve and the brightness (back light) control. Brightness simply changes backlight intensity. From the info 10e provided there is no indication this panel behaves any different to brightness/backlight inputs.

Despite your typical (for you) doomsday rants, I see zero evidence that this panel ships any more off the mark than the general state of the LCD industry, or any worse than what you seem to hold up as some sort of holy grail. The NEC 20Gx2 shipped very inaccurate out of the box, I remember reading there was significant black crush in it's default setup and the measured result certainly show it did not have perfect factory calibration.

It must really suck to be you. Your one true love monitor died and since they you have had an endless series of "Worse ever" monitor experiences.

For everyone else congratulations on the bargain IPS that can tweak out very nice indeed (epecially if 10e's profile works for you).
Click to expand...

First of all, don't address me like you know me then start crying about all kinds of random crap like a menstrating woman. You don't even have this monitor and are trying to tell me how it looks, what a joke.

I meant to say lowering the backlight of a panel a lot usually lowers the brightness (instead of gamma) and you sometimes have to raise the contrast to compensate at low backlight levels. As I said in my earlier post, this panel is the opposite because the contrast setting is set way too high and you have to lower the contrast to get a better gamma curve. I didn't expect some psycho to write a hate post talking shit about minor semantics.

Anyway, for some reason, people take this 10e guy as the word of gospel. You claim there was nothing unusual with the monitor but he also said exactly the same stuff as me about the contrast and gamma settings being way messed up along with the other guy that had a Eye One calibrator. So get lost and stop being a 10e fanboy. Takes the guy $1000 in calibration equipment to determine something about a monitor I can just look at with my naked eye and tell you in 3 seconds.
 
Gigamaster89, I'm wondering if return mine too... I have not dead pixels, but my issue is related to white/clear colors uniformity, is very poor. I linked some images some pages ago... I think I will only ask to replace my unit if I'm sure that If the new replace unit provided by Dell is defective too, it will exchanged for a new one, not for a repaired one.
 
Thanks for your review.

R0achTheWarHero said:
My 2209wa came in.

I used spyder2pro and 2.05 gamma (2.2 is way too dark)
12brightness 100red 96green 100blue = 149cdm2 6500k
Sharpness set to 40 (it's a little too high at default)

The Bad
-------------

Whoever is thinking "OOOH It's an IPS, I'm gonna buy it and it will have great colors without calibrating it", is gonna be disappointed. This monitor looks pretty crappy straight out of the box. Mine was 6100 kelvin when I tested it. After setting white point to 6500k, pre-calibration, the skin tones had some green/yellow in them and the gamma for the monitor is set too bright. After calibration they're better but still off. The colors on this thing post calibration are worse than the NEC 20wmgx2 with no calibration done to it.

For some reason I suspect these might be 6bit IPS panels. They don't really band much, if at all, but compared to an NEC or Apple IPS, things just don't seem like a normal IPS. Also there is no polarizer which is slightly annoying.

The black level is "ok" for an IPS but nothing to write home about. For games, the reactivity seems a little faster than a 5ms TN panel. The input lag is low (16ish).

Overall, E-IPS is definitely worse than H-IPS. It's a decent monitor but not a great one. Dunno if I'll keep or not. Here's post calibration picture, for some reason the picture makes the monitor looks like it has much higher contrast ratio than it realy does. Overall, the black level really doesn't look that good due to lack of polarizer. With a polarizer the panel would probably have a lot less glow to it and look way better:

96cj1k.jpg
Click to expand...
 
Can anyone test for me if you're able to do more than 60hz @ 1680x1050 on this monitor. Something like 75hz/85hz? I have a friend who's curious.
 
People who are having issues should not have any problem getting it exchanged through advanced exchange. You can tell them the thing doesn't even turn on and they wont know any better. They send you out a monitor and a packing slip for the return.

A company like Dell might not even toss the returns on a bench for a few weeks or months. Then when they do they run them for around an hour before selling them as refurbs if they dont need any obvious repairs.

Honestly though, one dead pixel, or even a few isn't worth risking what you might get instead if the monitor is ok otherwise.


As far as the 10e profile, I'm not seeing any difference either. I mean I install, reboot, and the monitor looks no different. Are those profiles just for printing?
 
I think if ANYTHING is wrong you should return/exchange it. You paid for a monitor, not a monitor with a stuck pixel. Hence why I exchanged mine ASAP.
 
barnabyjones said:
As far as the 10e profile, I'm not seeing any difference either. I mean I install, reboot, and the monitor looks no different. Are those profiles just for printing?
Click to expand...

you have to jump through fire hoops to make it "work" if you're on Vista. see some posts a page back.
 
Damn it will they be open tomorrow??? I just called and they said they are closed on Sundays... Tomorrow is President's day that is why I ask.
 
As far as the 10e profile, I'm not seeing any difference either. I mean I install, reboot, and the monitor looks no different. Are those profiles just for printing?
Click to expand...
you have to jump through fire hoops to make it "work" if you're on Vista. see some posts a page back
Click to expand...
i tried in Xp, seemed like it didn't work. maybe i am doing it wrong cz the brightness and constrast is same as default :(.
 
Ya, same here, that's y i ask for help here, it seems there are no different b4 & after using the profile. What should happen after applying the profile?
 
I'm currently using xp, so it should be working by applying the profile through display properties.
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hey zzzz52, can you give me the steps on how you put in the profile?
 
Is there any reason to expect that all of these are uncalibrated in a uniform fashion? IE will 10e's profile make every monitor look the same?

I ask because I applied the profile and did see a change, but if I go to lagom the gamma is certainly off when viewing the gamma calibration and viewing angle tests. I really don't know anything about how lcd's are made but it seems possible that production variances would make each panel slightly different in terms of what calibration is needed to make it look nice.

true or no?
 
pcslide said:
I'm now asking for another exchange and waiting for their reply, as I think I could not stand a display like this any longer

M4B6hf53SQEUxkinEuvLrw

the color tint is annoying even when I am viewing documents.
Click to expand...

Pcslide, the left side appears to me darker than the right one, is it?

Are you get a new exchange?

Good luck!
 
Pcslide, the left side appears to me darker than the right one, is it?

Are you get a new exchange?

Good luck!
Click to expand...

Same problem i have, do you think i am able to get a exchange for it?
 
Hi mhd, I think so... But I think Pcslide is now the suitable person to answer you. I would also like to know if he has achieved it. It seems to me is a quite common problem with this monitor so far. I have some fears about the replace units are not better. So I wonder if in some cases worth to ask for a exchange.
 
thanks marklin for answering question, i ll also see what pcslide thinks. i have the same feeling that the replacement might be worse than previous one. If it does happen, i ll stick with this one and sent replacement 2209wa. oh well, everything is not perfect.
 
*B* said:
Deja Vu lol
Click to expand...

Yeah it's too bad. R0ach had potential but his posts are so frantic and seemingly cocaine-laced that it was hard to really figure out what the hell he was trying to say.

jds62f said:
Is there any reason to expect that all of these are uncalibrated in a uniform fashion? IE will 10e's profile make every monitor look the same?

I ask because I applied the profile and did see a change, but if I go to lagom the gamma is certainly off when viewing the gamma calibration and viewing angle tests. I really don't know anything about how lcd's are made but it seems possible that production variances would make each panel slightly different in terms of what calibration is needed to make it look nice.

true or no?
Click to expand...

It won't make them look identical. In fact, you could have the same calibration software on the same PC calibrate two of the same model monitors to the same settings and get slightly different results. Monitors from the same panel batch and same production batch *can* be very different.

You have to make sure the settings I used are matched> Ie. 94,90,92 for RGB in custom RGB, and 74 contrast. Sorry guys, it's supposed to be 99, 98, 100 in RGB. My apologies for the mistake. I did use 94, 90, 92 previously, which was my first kick at the can.



If the gamma seems off and the lagom word seems cyan or reddish/magenta, then the gamma needs to be tweaked. If it's cyan, the gamma is too high, and contrast needs to be raised, and if it's too red, gamma is too low and contrast needs to be lowered.

I may try some more settings and see if I can get a good combo of contrast ratio and gamma and post some more up for everyone to play with.
 
hi mhd, if new unit is worse, I think you can try other exchange as pcslied have done... Today I have called to Dell and they have told me that replacement units are new within the first 30 days If you ask for it.
 
oh cool, i ll try doing that, will call dell today or tomorrow. btw, are they operating same hours since today's a holiday
 
Nye553 said:
lol, some people just can't settle

I'm quite pleased with it.
Click to expand...


Agreed. I had the chance to compare this guy to the dell 2408 my father in law paid twice as much for and a couple monitors here at work and I'm very happy. While its not *perfect* in gray uniformity it was much better than any of the other monitors I compared it too, and all of them cost more than this one.
 
Got both of mine today, and they both have this uneven color problem. I'm not sure what I'm going to do.

My fiancee will be home in a few hours, and I'm going to ask her to look at it as well to make sure that I'm not crazy.

Given what I'm reading though, if I'm right that these are screwed up I'm just going to return them and forget about it.

Dell hasn't produced a solid monitor since they made the 2407WFP A04 if you ask me. I thought the 2209WA would break that trend.

UPDATE AND QUESTION
Can someone else try jacking the brightness to 100 and the contrast to 75? I know those are probably horrible settings, but it seems like those settings kind of get rid of the uneven color problem.

I'm not sure. I have to get back to work for a while, when I get back I'll get another set of eyes to look at the monitor too.
 
As far as some people not being happy; I saw four of these monitors set up and calibrated before I bought mine. The person who bought them prints color labels, so they were calibrated using professional gadgets that I don't think many people have outside of the industry. It was a multi-thousand dollar kit.

All but one had major backlight bleed, which for me was just about the #1 thing I was trying to avoid. However the one monitor that didn't, was perfect. And after calibration it looked phenomenal. Markedly different from the others.

So in the end I took a chance, returning my relatively good HP I bought from a B&M. And I guess I got lucky because mine is damn near perfect. It suffers from none of the issues talked about here.

Out of five 2209WA's Ive seen, two were as perfect as Ive ever seen.



As far as the 10e ICC profile, I didn't see any change before installing the MS color control applet, which I did last night. Managing profiles through the control panel doesn't appear to work.

And I have to say, all the gamma tests I have run since show it is quite accurate on my monitor. For all intensive purposes it shouldn't be as close as it is.

http://www.microsoft.com/DownLoads/...a0-7721-43ca-9174-7f8d429fbb9e&displaylang=en


@10e, you have listed the color and contrast settings through the monitor OSD a couple of times at least. Are the settings on this page of 94,90,92, contrast 74 accurate? Because I swear they were different in another post, and the contrast was like 65.

So can I get an official word on this as to the definitive settings you used for the uploaded ICC? Also, in the tests I have run, its spot on 2.2, so Im assuming that is what you were going for? Why not 1.8?

cheers
 
glad things turned out well for you! I don't have any backlight bleed either and it looks fantastic. Mine has a touch of the color uniformity issue, but its barely noticeable on the test pages and imperceptable everywhere else. I was using the first color profile that got wiped out last week. it was 100,100,98 with 0 brightness and 74 contrast or something like that.
 
barnabyjones said:
@10e, you have listed the color and contrast settings through the monitor OSD a couple of times at least. Are the settings on this page of 94,90,92, contrast 74 accurate? Because I swear they were different in another post, and the contrast was like 65.
Click to expand...

yeah, 10e's profile is for 99, 98, 100; 0 brightness and 65 contrast so it's confusing now.

also, has anyone tried playing around with the Service Menu: turn the monitor off, turn it on again while holding brightness and menu buttons, keep pressing the brightness button until you see the menu in the top left corner.

it seems that the Gain settings are not the same as RGB settings in the main menu and Offset is being the Gamma Adjustments which open the door for even further tweaking.
 
I sure am glad my monitor is perfect.. OR I'm glad that I can appreciate this monitor for what it's worth and coming from low end TN monitors... I'm just very happy with the colours and viewing angles :D
 
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