NEC MultiSync LCD3090WQXi-BK spotted

ToastyX said:
LG has always had crappy quality control. I bet this is why EIZO doesn't use any LG panels. The IPS panels they do use are made by other companies like Hitachi and Mitsubishi, but they've been using S-PVA panels lately. I don't really feel S-PVA panels are good for color-critical work though.

LCD technology sucks.
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Agree on all fronts. LCD tech sucks.

I know this is anecdotal, but it matches (poor uniformity and more dead pixels) what I read elsewhere:
Of my 5 panels 3 (2 PVA, 1 TN) were samsung, and all were perfect except for inherent tech issues of being PVA or TN. but very uniform with no dead pixels.

My other two were LGs, one a 30 inch which was of very poor quality and had a dead pixel the other is my new NEC 2490 which is quite good except for another dead pixel.

I wish it was Samsung that was doing IPS and not LG. When LG build a decent Panel IPS is clearly the better technology. My NEC is the closest thing I have seen to having a flat panel CRT with perfect geometry that I have seen. Having an almost perfect image stage (pretty much CRT like anywhere seated in front of the monitor) is priceless. Only a slight darkening when I stand up (very slight). I love this LCD.

Anyway hopefully in 4 years when my warranty is up we will have OLED monitors, but I a not hopeful on that front. I expect I will only be able to buy Glossy TN screens with 200% NTSC gamut...
 
Brashen said:
A couple of frustrating things to take note about:

1) Why had NEC not included an A-TW polarizer in the display in the first place? ( Too expensive?)
2) With all these issues being found and from what I've seen on this and other forums a good number of people have returned their screens, why hasn't NEC fixed these problems with a newer version?. Either NEC is blind or they're just like every other business, they've turned a blind eye on the complaints.

Can someone tell me wtf is going on with this monitor please?
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To know what is going on with this monitor you need to have a good reading about LCD technology, this monitor prehistory, not lazy professional reviews and listen to it's owners - preferably adequate ones, not marasmatic.
This really outstanding monitor is too complicated for easy understanding - if you have little experience with monitors, simple extrapolation of your previous experience will not work in this case.
Even a "professional" reviewer has recently fallen in this trap.
Wash out all speculations of those who never used this monitor.
You'll need a clean surface. Unfortinately a couple of mmm.. incompetent posters crapped here a lot. Cleaning is necessary.

After that you'll know that some of 3090 users came across the panel irregularity - some half-tone vertical shadows visible on a certain background. Most likely it's attributed to panel manufacturing. We can only assume that, there are no facts so far.
This is the only thing that can be considred as an "issue".
We don't know how consistent it is from unit to unit.
How and when NEC is going to fix this - we don't know. Maybe it's already fixed.

30" Eizos have literally the same issues or worse:
.. a second model of the SX3031W was available to us for testing. As well as an operating noise which overlay the noise of the fan and changed to an unpleasant, light whistle when the monitor switched off, the homogeneity was considerably poorer than on our test model. Both models came from the free market...
Whilst our test model only demonstrated minimal, vertical banding for movements across homogenous surfaces, relevant steps were visible on the second model even for still images and mono-coloured surfaces. In addition, some horizontal shadowing was visible. There were also numerous subpixel errors.
To be fair, we shall point out here that most of the problems we encountered with the second model are caused by the panel, which Eizo also sourced from Samsung.

However, the quality guarantee for this model did not prove reliable. According to the Eizo hotline, a certain noise produced by the power unit –also when the monitor is switched off- should be seen as normal.
Source: prad.de
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As you see, by no means Eizos panel are any better than an ordinary "street" Samsung - despite marasmatic fantasies you can read in this thread.

That's your Samsung quality control (say Hi to 30" Gateway).
That's your Eizo quality control.

"Either Eizo is blind or they're just like every other business, they've turned a blind eye on the complaints."

Why doesn't every forum scream that 30" PVA Eizos are so rich in vertical stripes, horizontal stripes, dead pixels, whistles, etc?
Because few people in the right mind buy these crazily priced colorshifty monsters. That's why.

Back to our Hero.
Read this article.
Why no polarizer? Deep sigh... 3090 inherited best features of it's predesessors but not this one. This is the only thing that stopped me from buying this monitor to replace my 2490. Even wide gamut issues can be fixed thanks to powerful color management equipment. But polarizer ... An arguable decision is brightness regulation with black level 0.3 cd/m2. Some would prefer the older brightness system with 0.2 cd/m2 of black. Well, tastes differ. I still cannot decide what is "better".
3090 brightness system is unique - it's flicker-free that gives you hours of work with less eye strain.
If no uniformity question - 3090 is just a mighty machine for universal use - from pro photos to gaming. Overall - no match in 30".

OK.
Be a critical reader. Kick out all talkative noobs: no measurements? no figures? no pics? no links? no previous experience presented? - you see a zero noob - kick him out of you attention!

That way you'll get something meaningful.
About 3090... or any other monitor.
 
Snowdog said:
Of my 5 panels 3 (2 PVA, 1 TN) were samsung, and all were perfect except for inherent tech issues of being PVA or TN.....
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I have my own statistics of panel uniformity but I will give it in another thread.
Guys, why not pay attention to the name of this thread?
NEC 3090WQXi !
Thank you very much.

Snowdog, my friend, you are sitting in front of the best LCD monitor this industry ever created - WTF are you complaining about it's panel manufacturer??
 
albovin said:
Snowdog, my friend, you are sitting in front of the best LCD monitor this industry ever created - WTF are you complaining about it's panel manufacturer??
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I'm not your friend buddy. ;)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JQxpexX0uf4&NR=1

Complaining? Isn't this where we all piss and moan about minor trivialities? (looks around), yes I think it is.

Yes they make the panel, I love my NEC. But it seems more like an accident from LG. It has a dead pixel. It seems most people with these LG panels have dead pixels. The 30" panels are poor quality IMO. I have read many reports of IPS panels developing weird staining issues etc. I am glad NEC gives a 4 year warranty. I will probably need it.

Samsung make more consistent panels, with better screen uniformity and less dead pixels. Of course they are also PVA panels which are best used as a bias light behind my NEC. :D
 
Snowdog said:
...
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Oooo! I recognize it. If I piss it means the whole world piss.
Apple does the same for many years... Poor Apple...
OK, my own statistics.
Monitors I've had:
Several CRTs - homogeneity average to good.
20" IPS - good, came with no dead pixels - 2 points
24" PVA - poor, no dead pixels - 0
23" IPS - good, no dead pixels - 2
24" PVA - good, 1 dead pixel - 2
27" PVA - poor, no dead pixels - 0
24" IPS - good, no dead pixels - 2
24" PVA - good, no dead pixels - 2
30" IPS - average, no dead pixels - 1
PVA=1.00
IPS=1.75
 
albovin said:
Much closer now.

But still noobish.
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Or maybe you can't understand what I am trying to say here.

albovin said:
That's why I told you to study LCD.
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I know my stuff about LCDs thank you very much.

albovin said:
Some teaching for you to remember.
"Color shifting" in monitors' terminology is a definition for a specific major *VA technology problem that makes it different (inferior) from IPS. It comes from different panel structure design.
In terms of that IPS monitors have NO color shifting BY DESIGN.
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No, it describes exactly two words mean. You can't pin it to a specific technology. And that is the closest definition to describe the observable effect on the 30" - color shft. Again, I am not saying its the same as PVA, but the colors do shift - and far more prominently on this than any other IPS monitor I have seen.

albovin said:
What you can observe as opposed to CRT is LCD nature.
CRT also demonstrates certain change of what you have on the screen if you look from different angles.
Put your portrait on the wall and look from different angles. You'll see difference. Color shifting? No. A common difference.
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No. I do recognize the "normal" shifting. As I said for the n'th time, the NEC's color shifting is far more severe than of a high quality non-30" IPS. This must be a combination of acceptable reduction in brightness, crappy backlight brightness control (I still don't see how further reducing the brightness will cause flicker while other panels are able to do this), the blue-grey tint and of course stupid glow (probably the biggest culprit).

My S-IPS 20" (which I never concidered excellent but was very good) has significantly less shift than the 30". I would NEVER say that one has color shift.

albovin said:
You get it.
What else do you need? Published June, 01.
General comparison with the Dell 3008 provided in the article.
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Thats just comparing a brother to a sister. Essentially the same panel (lets not get into semantics here). What about the Apple, the original Dell 2007, Dell 2007-HC/HP3065, 305+, XL30, Ezio, etc. No, I am not asking you to do it (if you feel like it, be my guest), hence the use of this forum to get oppinion of other users and while battlng the everpresent "PVA sucks" attitude.

albovin said:
Photographic quality is not an issue for you? No problem. Go down to 30" Gateway.
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Why on earth would I go to the worst-of-the-worst QC 30 monitors ? I'd faster jump to the 305+ than that turd. And again, you presume too much. I want good IQ, accurate colors, just don't want to make so many sacrifices in achieving it.

albovin said:
Want to save?
Go further to the bottom of 30".
Gnusmas 305T - a bare panel with a stand.
Zero equipment. Enjoy PVA cons and pros (chewed 100 times) for less.

Hate PVA colorshift but want to economize?
There are a bunch of older and newer 30" "bare panel" IPS monitors.
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I never said I want to economize (though thats always something to look forward to) - I just want to get my money's worth, something I feel I haven't gotten with the NEC 3090.
 
pawstar,

I wouldn't touch the Gateway either - it's incredible that they never bothered fixing the blackout problem. One advantage of the Gateway is that it's standard gamut. The 305T used to be standard gamut, but now (in its 305T+ version) it's wide gamut with no sRGB mode as far as I can tell.

I never understood the anti-PVA sentiment here. There's some obsession about the three-turtle picture as though that somehow represents how the monitor is used. Yes, PVA has some gamma shift, but the importance of this is blown totally out of proportion here.

It is unfortunate that good 30" PVA monitors with an sRGB mode are so expensive. I really like the Eizo CG301W, but it's very expensive. As I mentioned before, the only strength of the NEC relative to the Eizo is the slightly sharper ClearType text on the NEC. I had the Eizo and the NEC sitting on my desk side-by-side for a while, and overall the Eizo wins by a large margin. It doesn't require any measurements - you see the difference right away. For example, I measure a white point of 6500K at 100cd/m2 on both monitors with my colorimeter, but the white looks better on the Eizo. Blacks are radically better on the Eizo, and that shows up easily in measurements. I mentioned the red problem with the NEC in sRGB mode before. Beyond the more pleasing colors and blacks on the Eizo, it has many other advantages: much less heat, no glow, practically no backlight leakage, no striping (I've seen 7 Eizo CG301W units and all had perfectly uniform grays, while all 4 NEC 3090 units that I've seen had vertical dark stripes on gray).

I think that it's too bad that no one makes an affordable full-featured monitor (including an sRGB mode, a decent OSD, HDCP, and multiple inputs) based on the 30" Samsung panel, and you have to spend a small fortune on an Eizo. The Gateway could have been the one, but it's screwed up.
 
visualguy said:
pawstar,
I never understood the anti-PVA sentiment here. There's some obsession about the
three-turtle picture as though that somehow represents how the monitor is used. Yes, PVA has some gamma shift, but the importance of this is blown totally out of proportion here.
Click to expand...

Ok you don't understand, I will endeavor to enlighten you about PVA. ;) Perhaps you are largely oblivious to one of the worse issues afflicting LCDs. I will detail the PVA mess.

Tone/gamma shifting within very small angles absolutely destroys display quality of monitors for me. Have detail wash in and at the slightest head movement is completely aggravating and would be an added mess when trying to edit shadow details.

For me PVA shift quite literally gives me a headache. I get a weird 3d/holo effect from the shift affecting each eye slightly different and the visual system trying to interpret those differences. Then there is the glare effect of solid muted colors like a flat gray becoming shiny and silvery as it moves across the screen.

Happily I bought a decent IPS screen that doesn't present completely inconsistent ever shifting image stage, with headache inducing stereo vision effect. I just have a stable consistent image like it should be.

I would rather deal with a bit of striping and panel inconsistencies and dead pixels, and panel glow than deal with the unstable/headache inducing, inconsistent PVA images.

But thankfully I don't have to deal with either. If I need more real estate, I'll get a second 24" maybe it will be TN, because even TN is less headache inducing than PVA.


Here is the hierarchy:

A-TW IPS > IPS > TN > 30 IPS riddled with defect > PVA > TN in portrait mode. :D
 
visualguy said:
pawstar,

I wouldn't touch the Gateway either - it's incredible that they never bothered fixing the blackout problem. One advantage of the Gateway is that it's standard gamut. The 305T used to be standard gamut, but now (in its 305T+ version) it's wide gamut with no sRGB mode as far as I can tell.

I never understood the anti-PVA sentiment here. There's some obsession about the three-turtle picture as though that somehow represents how the monitor is used. Yes, PVA has some gamma shift, but the importance of this is blown totally out of proportion here.

It is unfortunate that good 30" PVA monitors with an sRGB mode are so expensive. I really like the Eizo CG301W, but it's very expensive. As I mentioned before, the only strength of the NEC relative to the Eizo is the slightly sharper ClearType text on the NEC. I had the Eizo and the NEC sitting on my desk side-by-side for a while, and overall the Eizo wins by a large margin. It doesn't require any measurements - you see the difference right away. For example, I measure a white point of 6500K at 100cd/m2 on both monitors with my colorimeter, but the white looks better on the Eizo. Blacks are radically better on the Eizo, and that shows up easily in measurements. I mentioned the red problem with the NEC in sRGB mode before. Beyond the more pleasing colors and blacks on the Eizo, it has many other advantages: much less heat, no glow, practically no backlight leakage, no striping (I've seen 7 Eizo CG301W units and all had perfectly uniform grays, while all 4 NEC 3090 units that I've seen had vertical dark stripes on gray).

I think that it's too bad that no one makes an affordable full-featured monitor (including an sRGB mode, a decent OSD, HDCP, and multiple inputs) based on the 30" Samsung panel, and you have to spend a small fortune on an Eizo. The Gateway could have been the one, but it's screwed up.
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Yep; I agree entirely. Gateway got close, but the lack of backlight brightness control and other QC issues killed it for me. I was really hoping that the 305T+ would be more than just a panel upgrade and no luck there either.

The biggest complaints I hear about S-PVA are input lag and gamma shift. Input lag only applies if your a gamer and/or obsessed with specs. Gamma shift veries from one S-PVA panel to another. It isn't nearly as bad as some people make it out to be. from what I have seen TN is much worse in this regard. I personally have a Dell 2407WFP A03 and my only complaint about it is not input lag or gamma shift, it is black crush. Samsung's 6 series TVs are much better in this regard. I have not seen their new line of Monitors yet, but I suspect they still have this issue.

I was really hopefull that 30" NEC would be as good as their 24", but this forum steared me away from it pretty quick. There is no way I am going to spend this kind of money on a panel with uneven backlight. that is a show stopper for me.

Dave
 
daveswantek said:
Yep; I agree entirely...
The biggest complaints I hear about S-PVA are input lag and gamma shift... I personally have a Dell 2407WFP A03 and my only complaint about it is not input lag or gamma shift, it is black crush.
I was really hopefull that 30" NEC would be as good as their 24", but this forum steared me away from it pretty quick.
Dave
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Right.
PVA suffers from colorshift. That's how the problem is called. It includes black crush, all sorts of shift, silver glow, false 3D effect, uneven loss of contrast, etc.
Fuzzy text on current PVA does not come from the technology itself, it's more the way those panels are manufactured in attempt to improve poor viewing angles. No success though.
3090 is not as good as 2490, but as objective tests confirm, it is still the best overall universal solution among 30".
 
Thank you guys for all the competent replies!!

Just one thing: Does the " Striping" Effect get worse with time? if it does then it's a no sale for me......
 
Brashen said:
Thank you guys for all the competent replies!!

Just one thing: Does the " Striping" Effect get worse with time? if it does then it's a no sale for me......
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It hasn't for me, and it isn't nearly as bad as my pictures make it look, fortunately...
 
Brashen said:
Thank you guys for all the competent replies!!

Just one thing: Does the " Striping" Effect get worse with time? if it does then it's a no sale for me......
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It's a defect rather than an effect - the panels aren't supposed to have this problem. I haven't seen it get worse or better with time.

By the way, I talked to NEC about it recently, and I was told that they have been getting complaints about it, but most people decide to keep their monitors.

If you use gray screens a lot, this problem can get annoying. It's also somewhat noticeable on white, but not too much.
 
Snowdog,

I'm surprised by the severe effects that PVA has on you. I have never experienced those effects with the PVA monitors that I owned: Samsung 204T, 243T, 305T, XL30, Dell 2405, and Eizo CG301W.

If I look for it, I can see the gamma shift on certain images or certain color combinations (like the hardforum page layout), but it's not something that I notice unless I look for it, and it certainly doesn't affect my work and doesn't give me headaches.

I'm glad you found a monitor that works for you!
 
visualguy said:
I'm surprised by the severe effects that PVA has on you.
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No surprise that something that is just alphabet of monitors for adequate users, is above dummy's understanding.

No surprise that a dummy who is not able to put together two facts about his own monitor, is doing nothing but trolling this thread.

visualguy, stop trolling this thread with rubbish not related to the subject. Open a new thread and pray on your colorshifty PVA 24/7.

Readers, beware of dummies trolling this thread.
 
Just lucky I guess. Many people notice the shift, but it doesn't bother them.There are others around who suffer PVA other effects enough to make them a complete non starter, but we are a minority.

I understand how someone could see an effect, but it not bother them. TNs don't bother me because they present an essentially stable horizontal image plane(no stereo vision effects). So I find them completely comfortable to use, but put them in portrait and they are worse than PVA screens for me.

But I don't understand not being affected when trying to do image editing. TN or PVA both change detail revealed in shadows defendant on screen position. This is one of the only issues I have with TN and if it wasn't for that I would just have TN screens because I find them perfectly fine for games/movies/internet and work (coding). Only when editing images do they annoy me.

I realize no one screen is for everyone, but with all the screens you have tried you should pick up a NEC 2490, it is a truly wonderful LCD. I agonized over paying this much for an LCD but am glad I did now.
 
Snowdog said:
***
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Snowdog, whom are you trying to teach?
He's never been to elementary school where children are tought what is IPS, *VA, TN and why.
He ignores that.
He ignores the whole community of competent people.
He spits on education.
He spits on forum readers.
Don't you see he is trolling this thread and provokes you to repeat same things irrelevant to the topic over and over, just to fill this thread with trash?
I am seriously thinking of calling a moderator.
Ban this troll from now and on.
 
StaticSurge said:
Wow thank god Hard Forum has useful members like this guy, what a tool.
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Actually, Albovin is an extremely useful member here despite him sometimes being 'abrasive'.

There are a few ignorant opinions in this thread and while I don't agree with how he's gone about getting his point across, he's definitely right about what he is saying.
 
I second Pushead. He may come off as an ass sometimes but he gets the facts straight and to the point.
 
Do you mean stupid people or people who crash test monitors?

I guess we should talk about chest, head and pixel compression and deceleration at a 40 km/h offset impact?

:)



albovin said:
Readers, beware of dummies trolling this thread.
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I agree on a number of fronts here.

1) LG's quality control is not the best. I've been fortunate enough that my older Dell 2005FPW and LG TV had perfect panels out of the box. My original 26" was a disaster. 8 bright/hot pixels, a loose panel and 1.5 dead pixels (yeah, 1.5, with half of one dead). NEC bent over backwards and sent me a new monitor with a perfect panel. Little backlight bleed, no dead or stuck pixels or sub pixels, and extremely uniform backlight. Yay for me :) Also there is generally an issue with LG panels and the grainy effect of poorly, or over applied anti-glare coatings. Other than A-TW polarized monitors, I have seen this on every non-glossy LG based monitor. This is another example of LG's slightly lower quality control.

2) Color shift on PVAs is visible. Beware pictures on the net of this effect, as cameras will amplify it in video or static images. Use them as an illustration/example, not as a perfect representation of this. I have an MVA monitor sitting next to my NEC and it does suffer from gamma shift. It does not crush blacks much (if at all) but this effect can be disconcerting if left eye receives a brighter image than right eye or vice versa, and it does give an almost stereogram 3d effect, and it shows up/changes with very slight angles shifts. I can deal with it because I sit back from my screen (and it is my secondary display), but if you sit close enough, it can be bothersome. This is not MVA or PVA specific. It is inherent of this VA technology. Check the Dell forums on the 2408WFP and see there are numerous complaints of brightness differences between left and right side.

3) People talk of the white glow effect on non A-TW polarized monitors, but keep in mind, both TN and *VA suffer from this as well. Looking at a TN from above, or a PVA from the side WILL show this. I'm not sure how bad it is in comparison to IPS non-AT-W, but it is there.

It would be nice if LG could fix these quality issues (concerning vertical stripes, bad AG coatings and general pixel problems) because I think that there is no better LCD technology than IPS at the moment, and better quality should be a priority.
 
10e said:
2) Color shift on PVAs is visible. Beware pictures on the net of this effect, as cameras will amplify it in video or static images. Use them as an illustration/example, not as a perfect representation of this. I have an MVA monitor sitting next to my NEC and it does suffer from gamma shift. It does not crush blacks much (if at all) but this effect can be disconcerting if left eye receives a brighter image than right eye or vice versa, and it does give an almost stereogram 3d effect, and it shows up/changes with very slight angles shifts.
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IMO pictures don't do justice to how bad it can be in person, because you get none of the stereo vision effects from a picture. What I see in static pictures almost makes it look like a tolerable phenomena. Intolerable for me in reality.


3) People talk of the white glow effect on non A-TW polarized monitors, but keep in mind, both TN and *VA suffer from this as well. Looking at a TN from above, or a PVA from the side WILL show this. I'm not sure how bad it is in comparison to IPS non-AT-W, but it is there.
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Judging from shots I have seen and my test against a TN. TN is very similar even on the horizontal compared with a non A-TW IPS. I didn't even notice this effect until I had the other panel to compare with. I don't think LCD glow is a big issue on smaller panels, but on 30" panels it really is becoming one. Here is my 2490 vs my TN screen:
planettiltsmallmb0.jpg


As far as Albovin, he has a lot of correct information, but is not very good at figuring out the extent that subjective experience can vary among individuals.

Some people are downright oblivious to everything. You could give them a panel that shifts horizontally like PVA, vertically like TN, lags 100ms, smears movement and has completely insane saturated colors and they would rave it is the best monitor they ever saw. Others fall in the other extreme and expect an LCD to have viewing angles and response like a CRT, only with perfect geometry.
 
Snowdog said:
Others fall in the other extreme and expect an LCD to have viewing angles and response like a CRT, only with perfect geometry.
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Why shouldn't we expect an LCD (today's TECH) be equal or better than a CRT (TECH of 20yrs)? It's not like LCD is in it's infancy stage anymore. We pay a hell of a lot of cash for something and expect it to be what is represented. But no we get panels with striping gamma shifts backlight bleed crystallized effect and a number of other niggles, and yet we are expected to pay 2000+ dollars and be content about it.

If we stop complaining products are going to become shittier.
 
Brashen said:
Why shouldn't we expect an LCD (today's TECH) be equal or better than a CRT (TECH of 20yrs)? It's not like LCD is in it's infancy stage anymore. We pay a hell of a lot of cash for something and expect it to be what is represented. But no we get panels with striping gamma shifts backlight bleed crystallized effect and a number of other niggles, and yet we are expected to pay 2000+ dollars and be content about it.

If we stop complaining products are going to become shittier.
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qft, seriously I would expect LCD's now days to perform on par w/ CRT's
 
Hi, i have a little offtopic question: How i determine the panel brand in a nec 2490?
is a rev 2D and made in june 2008 :confused:
Thanks :p
 
Brashen said:
Why shouldn't we expect an LCD (today's TECH) be equal or better than a CRT (TECH of 20yrs)? It's not like LCD is in it's infancy stage anymore. We pay a hell of a lot of cash for something and expect it to be what is represented. But no we get panels with striping gamma shifts backlight bleed crystallized effect and a number of other niggles, and yet we are expected to pay 2000+ dollars and be content about it.

If we stop complaining products are going to become shittier.
Click to expand...


I just mentioned the two sides of the coin. I am one who wants a CRT like experience and think the basic technology of LCD is poor and want us to move onto something more CRT like. I think complaining is not enough. We will only get action on returns. They have to see enough impact to the bottom line to do something about. And herein lies the crux of the problem:

visualguy said:
By the way, I talked to NEC about it recently, and I was told that they have been getting complaints about it, but most people decide to keep their monitors.
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Even on an expensive NEC where you expect people to hold them to a higher standard, most sheep keep their monitors. So the bean counters in the end will not see enough returns to force the issue with LG.

If it is like that for NEC, can you imagine how much worse it is for the cheaper brands. You find essentially the same panel (or variant) in monitors in the $1000-$1200 range.

After getting my Dell 3007-HC I spent hours on my time getting rid of it, trying to tell them that I didn't want another, because it was clear there will serious quality issues with these panels. But at this level you are just dealing with a call center, I doubt they ever properly tag what the problem is with returns. But at least I sent mine back.

I bought my NEC 2490 and will hunker down with that until it croaks, hopefully we have a decent post LCD tech by then, because IMO LCD is an inherently flawed tech.
 
Snowdog,

You're probably right on every aspect. There has to be a way to get these "sheep" to stop buying flawed tech. Perhaps a movement?

Ah if only the world was a better place and not filled with so many idiots. And they say were the ruling species.
 
There has to be a way to get these "sheep" to stop buying flawed tech.
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If TFT is a flawed tech, what are people supposed to buy instead? There are exactly 2 choices:

1. Buy CRT monitors.
2. Do not buy any monitors at all.

Neither is a good choice. I don't believe, such a movement will be very successful. BTW, I'm writing this message sitting behind a CRT monitor, but compared to modern TFT displays it sucks in almost every way. IMHO there will be no alternatives to TFT during the next several years.
 
I think he means accepting panels riddled with obvious manufacturing defects like most of the 30" IPS screens.
 
chill out guys, this is NEC's first 30incher. I'm sure NEC didn't get the kind of reputation of making excellent monitors that we know of now just by sitting 'round and doing nothin' about their problematic models. Whether its LG's fault or mostly their own, I'm sure NEC has learned alot from our complains of the 3090. I have a good feeling that this is not the end and those good ol' engineers over at Japan are putting their backs into it and working hard on "the next big thang". After all, their a$$es are on the line :p
 
Thanks Snowdog, Yeah that's what I meant. I'm okay with TFT its the panels that I'm complaining about...And lets hope the next NEC will have LED back lighting as well!!
 
Snowdog said:
I bought my NEC 2490 and will hunker down with that until it croaks, hopefully we have a decent post LCD tech by then, because IMO LCD is an inherently flawed tech.
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/continue thread hijack!

I'm with you on this, I've never been a fan of LCD tech. Response time gimmicks and input lag kills it for me. There are a couple TN panels out there with 0 input lag but the picture sucks compared to other panel types. Until theres an ips lcd with zero input lag im sticking with my old LG 1970hr :(
 
I sent my panel back for a replacement (too late for return). As I have stated before, be warned, when I bought the NEC 30 inch, the panel did not have the vertical stripe issue as it was the first thing I tested. But after 3 weeks of use, I had several distinct stripes. If you think this is acceptable then go right ahead and buy this panel.
 
Snowdog said:
... extent that subjective experience can vary among individuals.
Click to expand...

See, that is a point I really tried to get across. And its not just subjective but also how you configure the monitor (brightness!) and the usage environment. The flaws in the monitor are not so obvious when its used in a *bright* office. Hence it shines for color critical work with the brightness cranked up (giving the most optimum performance of the panel). Nobody is going to watch movies/multimedia and play games in such an environment even if the monitor is capable of doing so there. As for plain old office work, nobody would sanely consider putting that much cash for it (ok, a CEO, manager and the likes will do for themselves). However, in a "normally" lit office/workroom/den etc, the flaws are far more prominent giving a sub-optimal experience.

But, I still don't see how people are able to handle 200+ cd/m2 brightness. Seriously, that like looking into a metal-halide lamp in a supermarket. The only place it make sense to me is information panels and the like - stupid marketing.
 
SignalPST said:
chill out guys, this is NEC's first 30incher. I'm sure NEC didn't get the kind of reputation of making excellent monitors that we know of now just by sitting 'round and doing nothin' about their problematic models. Whether its LG's fault or mostly their own, I'm sure NEC has learned alot from our complains of the 3090. I have a good feeling that this is not the end and those good ol' engineers over at Japan are putting their backs into it and working hard on "the next big thang". After all, their a$$es are on the line :p
Click to expand...

Well, they better offer a tradeup or something. Cause otherwise, it won't matter for those of us who already purchased the NEC 3090 and are now stuck with it. Sure there is warranty, but that won't give us a new model with the issues hopefully resolved.
 
That's why ill be waiting and hopefully HP cranks another professional 30inch display for good old competition!!
 
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