IBM Releases “Commuter Pain” Survey Results

Terry Olaes

Terry Olaes

I Used to be the [H] News Guy
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The survey of 4,000 drivers in 10 U.S. cities, conducted by IBM’s Institute for Electronic Government, revealed that $4.50 per gallon of gas is the break point at which many drivers will seek alternatives to driving; and overall findings showed that commuter pain is highest in Los Angeles and lowest in Minneapolis.
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We don’t normally comment on press releases but this one actually has stuff worthy of discussion. Follow the link above and then comment below on your own “commuter pain.”
 
Lowest in MPLS ?

Seems right. The prices are high indeed, but I don't really see increased traffic/anger/stress/whatever else.
 
with gas prices on the rise, i wonder if more companies will let employees telecommute if possible? because hell 3.76$ a gallon is killing me right now because i drive a minivan.
 
These "breaking point" values are useless.

3 years ago had you asked the same quetion 90% of people would say they'd stop using cars at $3.50/gallon.

People are all talk. They'll keep using their cars at $4.50, and $5.50, and $6.50, and beyond.
 
Nemesis999 said:
They'll keep using their cars at $4.50, and $5.50, and $6.50, and beyond.
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Precisely what happened in every past price rise. People just get used to paying the higher prices and keep on with their old behaviour.

Prices in the US are cheap, however, compared to most of the rest of the world.
 
I wonder when congress is going to allow oil exploration in our own country.
 
I've got a 15 mile commute each way to work - about 30 minutes. It takes me about an hour there, and 1.25 hrs home (elevation difference). I look at it as a free extra hour of workout, gets me in shape, and saves money. And I should be able to cut it down to 45 minutes & an hour once I get in shape.
 
Nemesis999 said:
People are all talk. They'll keep using their cars at $4.50, and $5.50, and $6.50, and beyond.
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I believe that. However we're now seeing the price of SUVs/trucks drop, so some folks are 'voting with their pocketbook'.

I also believe that those increasing prices will cause inventors/investors to develop other means of transportation.
 
I'm living on campus this summer because it's cheaper than commuting. There's a data point.
 
It could be worse guys.... I live in the UK. And they whack a huge lump of Tax on top of our fuel costs. They call it a "Green Tax". (The rest of us citizens use a less polite word.....)

Petrol is faaaaar to expensive here. Our £1.20 per LITRE is $2.40 a LITRE.

1 US gallon = 3.78541178 litre

So that is a nice: $9.08 per US Gallon.


And it sucks big.... I do about 20,000miles a year as part of my job, and in the last few months I have seen a rise of around 25% on my fuel bills.
 
It could be worse guys.... I live in the UK. And they whack a huge lump of Tax on top of our fuel costs. They call it a "Green Tax". (The rest of us citizens use a less polite word.....)

Petrol is faaaaar to expensive here. Our £1.20 per LITRE is roughly $2.40 a LITRE.

1 US gallon = 3.78541178 litre

So that is a nice: $9.00 per US Gallon.


And it sucks big.... I do about 20,000miles a year as part of my job, and in the last few months I have seen a rise of around 25% on my fuel bills.
 
Oh don't worry.. the "green revolution" is starting to hit the US. Our tax dollars are magically going to control the earth's climate. :p We'll be paying "green tax" soon enough. Just wait until the carbon taxing starts. I think the secret agenda is to price people out of living so they're so restricted and controlled that they die off and the population becomes less.. lol.
 
Odd, I see no-one asking just why the fuck gas prices are as elevated as they are now. 5 years ago gas was 1/3 what it is now and oil was only half the cost per barrel. The oil companies claim that they need the extra cost increase for future exploration? Uh, yeah and that's why they're constantly turning in record profits, their execs are making more money than they can count (as the recent probe by a consumer advocacy group found out) and the sheople that make up our population just grin and bear it.

Until everyone gets together and boycotts the oil companies by not buying any fuel for a week or so and letting them know that we're getting fed up with the profiteering that's going on we're going to keep getting raped. Of course we've only got ourselves to blame, we voted in someone that has a personal stake in big oil as president.
 
w1retap said:
I wonder when congress is going to allow oil exploration in our own country.
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We need that, so hopefully soon. And we need to expand coal mining... and use some slick tech to clean up what little bit of coal burning is still dirty.

Anyway, $4.50/gal... meh... I think many people are too lazy to do anything but drive their cars.
 
A more basic problem in this country is how it is setup. You HAVE to drive a car in most places. No bike trails, no sidewalks, grocery store 10 miles away. Don't forget how many people live in the suburbs, rural areas with no public trans. For people in the country, there is no choice. Yes, you can reduce your trips per week and don't run to the store for that tomato you forgot, but overall, not much you can do. Also, in places where there is public transportation, I doubt the system is robust enough to handle a massive influx of new riders.
 
Forgot to add:

As to the not allowing drilling of our own oil... Kind of seems like we have the strategy of buy everyone else's first, then start using our own. Why use your own oil reserves when they're worth $2.00/gallon when you could sell them in 10 years to other nations @ $15/gallon? Kind of like an ace in the hole. No idea if that's how it works, but it's how I think about it sometimes. The end result is the consumers still gets screwed, but where is the money flowing at the end of the day.
 
Nemesis999 said:
These "breaking point" values are useless.

3 years ago had you asked the same quetion 90% of people would say they'd stop using cars at $3.50/gallon.

People are all talk. They'll keep using their cars at $4.50, and $5.50, and $6.50, and beyond.
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For the current generation of drivers, you're probably right. I suppose most of these people are too determined not to make any adjustments to their lifestyles and routines. At my last job, we had a meeting where we discussed current available alternatives to driving to work by ourselves. Boy, you talk about exposing phobias, inhibitions, insecurities and border line mental issues...

The mere mentioning of "adapting to new environments" caused a few wing nut wackos to nearly explode. They were teetering on insanity anyhow but it was fun stoking their fears. :D
 
havand said:
Forgot to add:

As to the not allowing drilling of our own oil... Kind of seems like we have the strategy of buy everyone else's first, then start using our own. Why use your own oil reserves when they're worth $2.00/gallon when you could sell them in 10 years to other nations @ $15/gallon? Kind of like an ace in the hole. No idea if that's how it works, but it's how I think about it sometimes. The end result is the consumers still gets screwed, but where is the money flowing at the end of the day.
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additionally it would be a national security issue... if we start using our own oil, and run out, other countries could charge us whatever they please and we would have basically no choice but to pay it...
 
Pfffft.. That's cheap.

In Finland a gallon costs about 5,50$. Now thats expensive. :p
 
People tend to forget inflation when figuring why gas has increased so much. I'm not saying inflation is the biggest reason for the increase, but it does play a part.
 
My truck gets about 12 mpg in town. With work only 3.5 miles away, that's not too bad. It's about to change to a 15-16 mile commute, though. At $4/gal I'm going to be spending $10/day just getting to/from work.

I took the basic rider safety course and bought a motorcycle. I can, at a bare minimum, get triple the mileage on the bike as I get with my truck. As long as the weather permits I'll be taking the bike.

Once the motorcycle is paid off I'll probably look into getting a car. I insist on 4WD/AWD for winter. A WRX might be fun; not necessarily top of the list in fuel economy, but still a lot better than the pickup.
 
visionviper said:
People tend to forget inflation when figuring why gas has increased so much. I'm not saying inflation is the biggest reason for the increase, but it does play a part.
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When inflation is considered, I think the peak fuel price from the last "gas crisis" (circa 1982 IIRC) equates to around $3/gal today. We are definitely past that point.
 
knob said:
And we need to expand coal mining... and use some slick tech to clean up what little bit of coal burning is still dirty.
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The cost effectiveness of "clean coal" will make energy costs wayyyy higher than what we're seeing now, because it isn't in the coal fuel aspect, it's in the burning aspect. It costs about $2B to make a new 600MWe clean coal plant, and over $6B to make a 1000MWe clean coal plant... and even then it's still dirty as hell. The way to go for mass energy production needs of the country is nuclear, then develop a reprocessing technique for spent fuel in order for it to be re-used in other energy production applications instead of just sitting in a spent fuel pool or dry cask storage for a few thousand years while it radiates enough heat energy that equals trainloads upon trainloads of coal.
 
I don't think gas prices of US$ 4.5 per gallon is going to stop people from taking the car to work etc.

Why? Because in Sweden, we passed the $8 per gallon mark a long time ago. People still take the car, and we have lower incomes to begin with. Some are switching to alternative fules or buying smaller, more efficient cars. The conclusion is that people don't drive cars for fun, they do it because they have to. Increasing fuel prices only puts more preassure on families with already weak economies.
 
edit button ftw:

Not only that, but nuclear is a far more dependable source of power, many fold times more dependable than coal, gas, wind, solar, geothermal, etc.
 
It isnt supply and demand, studies have shown that driving has DECREASED and its not OPEC but yet oil still goes up. Why? BECAUSE OF THE JACKASSES ON WALLSTREET THAT SPECULATE and F*CK ALL OF US. Your trying to tell me oil has risen because of china and india? IN 3 F*CKING MONTHS ALL OF A SUDDEN?!?!?! Theyre getting away with murder and runing this country.

This was on Wed:
stronger dollar, LESS DEMAND and OIL STILL GOES UP BECAUSE OF A SPECULATOR.

http://money.cnn.com/2008/05/28/markets ... 2008052815


Oil fell nearly $3 earlier in the day, but rebounded after Morgan Stanley's co-head of global economics, Richard Berner, said crude prices could easily reach $150 a barrel this year, and that high prices will not be enough to curb demand in developing countries.

"It seems that these big banks are driving oil prices, where instead it used to be the other way around,"
 
sanitarium16 said:
It isnt supply and demand, studies have shown that driving has DECREASED and its not OPEC but yet oil still goes up. Why? BECAUSE OF THE JACKASSES ON WALLSTREET THAT SPECULATE and F*CK ALL OF US. Your trying to tell me oil has risen because of china and india? IN 3 F*CKING MONTHS ALL OF A SUDDEN?!?!?! Theyre getting away with murder and runing this country.

This was on Wed:
stronger dollar, LESS DEMAND and OIL STILL GOES UP BECAUSE OF A SPECULATOR.

http://money.cnn.com/2008/05/28/markets ... 2008052815


Oil fell nearly $3 earlier in the day, but rebounded after Morgan Stanley's co-head of global economics, Richard Berner, said crude prices could easily reach $150 a barrel this year, and that high prices will not be enough to curb demand in developing countries.

"It seems that these big banks are driving oil prices, where instead it used to be the other way around,"
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Yeah, those exponential amounts of oil that China and other developing nations are using have nothing to do with it.. or the fact that the US doesn't have the means to refine the amounts of oil we use. :rolleyes:
 
There's nothing stopping us from going out and building huge solar/wind farms and producing all of our energy for ourselves. I beleive the CEO of google (forgot his name), said if we used 100x100m patch of nevada for solar thermal farms we could generate enough electricity to roughly power the entire united states. If people conserved and more farms were added, and the Chevrolet Volt or something similar becomes a reality (all electric cars), we could face much cheaper costs for things, and OIL and COAL WILL RUN OUT EVENTUALLY NO MATTER WHAT THE F3CK WE DO.

I beleive the farm would cost about only $100 billion too, well not only, but thats much less than having national security at risk.
 
w1retap said:
Yeah, those exponential amounts of oil that China and other developing nations are using have nothing to do with it.. or the fact that the US doesn't have the means to refine the amounts of oil we use. :rolleyes:
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So your telling m WITHIN 3 MONTHS they started using SO MUCH OIL to justify the EXTREME PRICE RAISE......BULLLLLLLLLL ITS EXCUSE AFTER EXCUSE.... There is a show on CNN called "OUT OF GAS" watch it if its on again.
 
100sq miles? Do you have any concept of just how much SPACE that would be to fill with solar equipment? Let alone the whole manufacturing, building, shipping. I would love to see something like this done, but even to me it seems a daunting task. You have to realize it will probably happen slowly. The entire infrastructure of the U.S. power grid was build rather quickly, but still slowly as need developed.
 
coolxboxgamer said:
There's nothing stopping us from going out and building huge solar/wind farms and producing all of our energy for ourselves. I beleive the CEO of google (forgot his name), said if we used 100x100m patch of nevada for solar thermal farms we could generate enough electricity to roughly power the entire united states. If people conserved and more farms were added, and the Chevrolet Volt or something similar becomes a reality (all electric cars), we could face much cheaper costs for things, and OIL and COAL WILL RUN OUT EVENTUALLY NO MATTER WHAT THE F3CK WE DO.

I beleive the farm would cost about only $100 billion too, well not only, but thats much less than having national security at risk.
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lulwut? ahaha no. That would be a huge waste, especially based on the fragility/longevity of the product. It wouldn't be nearly as dependable either, and it wouldn't power the entire US. :p Those are hippie dreams you're hearing, not real life solutions.

You have to diversity your energy portfolio as a country. There's over 150 years left of coal power just in the US resources to be energy independent, there's over 50 years of untapped reserves of oil by conservative scientific reviews in the US to be energy independent, there's enough uranium in the world to power the entire world for hundreds of years or even more if you reprocess the fuel, there's good places to setup solar/wind/geo where it is appropriate, etc.
 
sanitarium16 said:
So your telling m WITHIN 3 MONTHS they started using SO MUCH OIL to justify the EXTREME PRICE RAISE......BULLLLLLLLLL ITS EXCUSE AFTER EXCUSE.... There is a show on CNN called "OUT OF GAS" watch it if its on again.
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woh, settle down chief. :p The energy costs are just catching up to us. I'm not going to watch the Commie News Network television speculators go and speculate about the market speculators. It's utter nonsense. Look at the raw numbers, then draw conclusions based off economics 101. It isn't hard to figure out.
 
jfreund said:
When inflation is considered, I think the peak fuel price from the last "gas crisis" (circa 1982 IIRC) equates to around $3/gal today. We are definitely past that point.
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Don't forget the dollar's declined in value nearly half from it's peak almost 8 years ago. Imagine if the company you worked for paid you tokens. They said "You get 1 token a day, and you can exchange it for $100." Then one day they tell you - "Sorry, the token's exchange rate, the value of it, has dropped. Now you only get $50 per token." Do you say "Sure, that sounds fair", or do you say "Hey, then you need to give me 2 tokens then." Then it comes time for a review, you want a raise, your boss says - "Are you nuts? We're already paying you TWICE what we were a year ago!" At which point you say - HEY, it's only worth half as much so even though you're giving me 2 I'm getting the same value out of it.

Dollar goes down 33%, price of oil goes up by 33% in US dollars = everybody says "Hey, why'd the price of that just go up 33%! This is ridiculous!" meanwhile the person selling it is thinking - "Yeah, I get more dollars, but they're all worth less. I'm getting the same value, but people are now complaining to me more when I wasn't the one that made the value of the currency change."
 
havand said:
100sq miles? Do you have any concept of just how much SPACE that would be to fill with solar equipment?
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ohhhh...about 30X less square miles than the Exxon Valdez oil slick caused...

Someday, we'll stop suckling the teat of F-O-S-S-I-L fuel.
 
madmat said:
Odd, I see no-one asking just why the fuck gas prices are as elevated as they are now. 5 years ago gas was 1/3 what it is now and oil was only half the cost per barrel. The oil companies claim that they need the extra cost increase for future exploration? Uh, yeah and that's why they're constantly turning in record profits, their execs are making more money than they can count (as the recent probe by a consumer advocacy group found out) and the sheople that make up our population just grin and bear it.

Until everyone gets together and boycotts the oil companies by not buying any fuel for a week or so and letting them know that we're getting fed up with the profiteering that's going on we're going to keep getting raped. Of course we've only got ourselves to blame, we voted in someone that has a personal stake in big oil as president.
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I live in Israel and the price is $7.84 for gallon, but I don't really care due to my "nice" paycheck. :eek:

About the reason of why the prices are so high:
Few days ago I watched one hour long documentary about this. Basically they told that China and India are expanding and demanding more and more oil. Also the world's oil which is available for mining is almost run out. They sad that the world has 5-7 years to find and switch to alternative power or face a cataclysmic global recession
 
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