Sapphire Radeon HD 2900 XT CrossFire @ [H]

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FrgMstr

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Sapphire Radeon HD 2900 XT CrossFire - Two retail Sapphire Radeon HD 2900 XT video cards, one Intel Bad Axe 2, and two CrossFire bridge connectors equals ATI’s most powerful graphics combination at this time for gaming. We find out if two Radeon HD 2900 XT video cards in CrossFire is worthy or a waste.

Radeon HD 2900 XT CrossFire is most certainly not a good gaming solution. It just does not deliver the kind of performance advantages ATI needs to compete with what NVIDIA already has in the marketplace. Sapphire has created a very complete retail package that would suit any ATI fan well and Sapphire should not be looked down on for the substandard gaming experience that ATI has delivered this generation. I would say stay away from the Radeon HD 2900 XT in CrossFire at this time; it just does not represent a good gaming value.
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PLEASE DIGG TO SHARE!
 
Pretty damning review, makes you wonder just what ATi were thinking.

Hopefully they will pull their act together in the next round of their mortal combat or we'll see stagnation in the market, we're already seeing it where Nvidia aren't bothering to update cards because they don't have to. Hope that doesn't carry on for long.
 
I find it kind of odd when I think of what I read on the INQ. Apparently when they gave presentations in Tunisia on the new cards, they would pause and look at people like they were EXPECTING people to applaud.
 
Wow. Glad I didn't wait around for the 2900's when I was building my current machine. Really makes you wonder what ATI is doing with themsevles... :confused:
 
How much of the card is still unoptimized? I ask this because the last set of drivers supposedly up Stalker from unplayable to playable and had a pretty large jump in fps. And the CF 2900xt did match the 8800 gts sli in oblivion but drops heavily compared to other games. So again, how much of that is drivers still?
 
ZerazaX said:
How much of the card is still unoptimized? I ask this because the last set of drivers supposedly up Stalker from unplayable to playable and had a pretty large jump in fps. And the CF 2900xt did match the 8800 gts sli in oblivion but drops heavily compared to other games. So again, how much of that is drivers still?
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About two months of driver revisions have failed to make the 2900XT a compelling value. They have about four months left before nVidia releases a new generation. Even if the potential is there somewhere, the time is running out.
 
ZerazaX said:
How much of the card is still unoptimized? I ask this because the last set of drivers supposedly up Stalker from unplayable to playable and had a pretty large jump in fps. And the CF 2900xt did match the 8800 gts sli in oblivion but drops heavily compared to other games. So again, how much of that is drivers still?
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Really at this point who cares and furthermore, do you think that next driver performance will be so much better? The fact is, if you look at this card as a whole it just doesn't make sense to buy it. I think if it was 30% less expensive than the 8800 GTS then maybe.
 
In Europe its deinitely much cheaper than the GTS640 so it could be interesting. I doubt that more driver revisions will do much but stalker DID have significant improvements after recent ones so it's not out of the question entirely either.

BTW the Ultra looks like a good buy considering how it well it holds up to the multi GPU configs
 
did i miss the part where you listed (if any) benefits from over clocking one or both of the cards and the impact it had on games? Or was it just so minimal to not list it?
 
Man ATI has really gave us a let down this generation. Now that [H] has given the final word on performance of crossfire vs sli vs single card solutions... its clear that the 2900XT is really a waste of money right now. No matter how many drivers they output between now and the 65nm revision this card is too far behind Nvidia to catch up til the next gen cards. Its sad to see ATI like this , I love the competition, it benefits us all. I use to buy a Nvidia or ATI card then use it for about a month or so then sell it and try the otherside of the competition. Seems like that is pointless now.


Also fantastic review guys. Hope this puts to rest alot of debate on the video card forums.
 
Commander Suzdal said:
About two months of driver revisions have failed to make the 2900XT a compelling value. They have about four months left before nVidia releases a new generation. Even if the potential is there somewhere, the time is running out.
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there is no way nvidia is pusing a new generation out already. refresh MAYBE, but its usually about 14-18 months to a generation that I've noticed... with the refresh coming in around 4 months before the trade off...

[EDIT] Where's the Digg? :(
 
0mega said:
there is no way nvidia is pusing a new generation out already. refresh MAYBE, but its usually about 14-18 months to a generation that I've noticed... with the refresh coming in around 4 months before the trade off...
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Nov will be 12 months since the 8 series has been out. Ultra was the refresh coming in May. Nvidia releases their new generation about every year, so expect it later 2007, early 2008.
 
Dear god, this is Geforce FX all over again, except for ATi this time.

Just what were the engineers thinking?

On the positive side, I'm glad they got rid of the dongle for crossfire.
 
Nice review, [H]! It was certainly a fair review, and I for one greatly appreciate the tweaking of the format to cater to the variety of assessment preferences your readers have, as well as the added trouble and effort of it all. Thank you!
 
I have to wonder why your results so starkly contrast Falcon Northwest's article on 2900XT Crossfire. I trust the [H]'s reviews over FNW any day of the week, but you guys results are much more in line with current 2900XT performance numbers, while FNW was proclaiming Crossfire as the saving grace of the R600 chips. What gives? (Besides the fact that FNW wants to sell you two pieces of crap instead of one piece of crap. :p)
 
0mega said:
there is no way nvidia is pusing a new generation out already. refresh MAYBE, but its usually about 14-18 months to a generation that I've noticed... with the refresh coming in around 4 months before the trade off...
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I'm basing my timeline on what is being said "around the 'net"--G92 is due to hit this November. It's not all that far-fetched, when you remember that it will be a year by then since the debut of the G80.

As to whether that will be a refresh or a true new GPU, I guess that's debatable. Consensus of opinion is that they skipped the refresh because of lack of competition. But either way it will be better than what they have now, and that's big trouble for ATi.
 
InorganicMatter said:
I have to wonder why your results so starkly contrast Falcon Northwest's article on 2900XT Crossfire. I trust the [H]'s reviews over FNW any day of the week, but you guys results are much more in line with current 2900XT performance numbers, while FNW was proclaiming Crossfire as the saving grace of the R600 chips. What gives? (Besides the fact that FNW wants to sell you two pieces of crap instead of one piece of crap. :p)
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1. FNW was using two system-integrator-only 2900XTs with secret sauce--higher clocks, better memory, etc.

2. They were benching under Vista.
 
InorganicMatter said:
I have to wonder why your results so starkly contrast Falcon Northwest's article on 2900XT Crossfire. I trust the [H]'s reviews over FNW any day of the week, but you guys results are much more in line with current 2900XT performance numbers, while FNW was proclaiming Crossfire as the saving grace of the R600 chips. What gives? (Besides the fact that FNW wants to sell you two pieces of crap instead of one piece of crap. :p)
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A few answers for you.

A) They used the 1gb 2900XT, not the 512.
B) They used Vista, using nVidia drivers that didn't allow for correct SLI usage (it was basically a single card GTX system).
C) They only listed which games performed better on the 2900xt system and removed the rest from the article, as well as removed any XP results.
 
This might sound weird, but why should Nvida put out a refresh at all? It's nice to have the same generation of GPU's for over a year. Gives game developers time to realize that they code like crap and forces them to code more efficiently instead of waiting for more powerful hardware to run their un-optimized code. i.e Halo2 , Rainbow 6: Vegas, Lost Planet, Stalker, etc etc.

I think itis high time that we give game developers the time to catch up. Remember what could be done with the quake 2 engine after a couple years? It seems nowadays the tools have become so powerful that unskilled developers can still make beautiful games, but they'll run like crap unless you have high end hardware. Back in the day they just were crap games that looked like crap. It seems the quality level of developing games is past the point of creating everything from scratch to using a pre-packaged game engine.

I might be a tad off but I know i'm not the only one. So ATi isn't as competitive this round, which any smart [H]'er has very little to do with the acquisition(not merger) with AMD.
 
XamediX said:
This might sound weird, but why should Nvida put out a refresh at all?
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Sitting aruond waiting for your rival to catch up is not good business. Putting your rival in the ground or keeping around as your "pet" is good business.

Also, nVidia only makes money if people are buying cards. Once everyone has card X...and there is no card Y...how do you make money? Even if the cards are just slightly better...it still keeps the treadmill moving.
 
What we should really hope for is them to fix their damn drivers, especially with regards to Vista. If there's one advantage ATI has had is that their Vista drivers are much more squared away under Vista than the 8800's are right now.

I just don't get why we can't get both great performance in cards and good drivers as well. Is it that much to ask :confused:
 
InorganicMatter said:
I have to wonder why your results so starkly contrast Falcon Northwest's article on 2900XT Crossfire. I trust the [H]'s reviews over FNW any day of the week, but you guys results are much more in line with current 2900XT performance numbers, while FNW was proclaiming Crossfire as the saving grace of the R600 chips. What gives? (Besides the fact that FNW wants to sell you two pieces of crap instead of one piece of crap. :p)
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I think you just answered your own question

The apples-to-apples tests are most interesting - http://enthusiast.hardocp.com/article.html?art=MTM1OSw3LCxoZW50aHVzaWFzdA==
 
ZerazaX said:
I just don't get why we can't get both great performance in cards and good drivers as well. Is it that much to ask :confused:
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The drivers make the performance, so you need good drivers to deliver good performance.

Vista is an entirely different beast, like any new OS it is going through its growing pains.
 
XamediX said:
This might sound weird, but why should Nvida put out a refresh at all? It's nice to have the same generation of GPU's for over a year. Gives game developers time to realize that they code like crap and forces them to code more efficiently instead of waiting for more powerful hardware to run their un-optimized code. i.e Halo2 , Rainbow 6: Vegas, Lost Planet, Stalker, etc etc.

I think itis high time that we give game developers the time to catch up. Remember what could be done with the quake 2 engine after a couple years? It seems nowadays the tools have become so powerful that unskilled developers can still make beautiful games, but they'll run like crap unless you have high end hardware. Back in the day they just were crap games that looked like crap. It seems the quality level of developing games is past the point of creating everything from scratch to using a pre-packaged game engine.

I might be a tad off but I know i'm not the only one. So ATi isn't as competitive this round, which any smart [H]'er has very little to do with the acquisition(not merger) with AMD.
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Refresh to keep the pressure on AMD and gain even more market share would be why, from a business perspective, they should release them.

I mean look at Intel and its constant price slashing and new processor releases despite the fact that AMD has been pretty much down and out for the last year...
 
I'm not sayign to sit on your haunches, because I would assume they are R&Din their asses off in the meantime. But you don't need new hardware to keep people buying cards. Like I for one would like to geta good year out of my $400-500 card before it gets trumped but somethign twice as fast. Plus, why develope better code when you can always rely on the hardware companies to bail you out with faster performing parts.
 
I am completely shocked -- shocked!!!! -- by the results.

So how did HD 2900XT CF do in [H] timedemo benchmarks? ;) /ducks
 
Pepsiennis said:
Nice review, [H]! It was certainly a fair review, and I for one greatly appreciate the tweaking of the format to cater to the variety of OBSESSMENT your readers have, as well as the added trouble and effort of it all. Thank you!
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Fixed :)
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About the review, yeah this time around ATI missed the boat.
In anticipation of the comments about [H] being in the pay of nvidia (like the last ATI review comments) lemme say try actually doing some research of [H] history.
The FX series was a pile of crap (and I'm an nvidia user), and [H] properly said that it was. As well, during that time, the ATI 9800 generation totally crushed nvidia (and again, I'm an nvidia user) and again [H] called it like it was.
Someone else detailed a bunch more information on past [H] treatment of ATI and nvidia in a post on the last 2900 review thread if anyone wants to read up on more of this.

It wouldn't surprise me at all to see nvidia wait to do thier next generation of video cards. Why wouldn't they? They have no competition right now in the high end. They could wait until ATI releases thier refresh of the 2900 (if ATI is smart, they'll try and work one up that can beat the GTX). Especially if ATI does a soft launch... then nvidia could come out a week later and release a card that beats ATI all over again, and totally steal ATI's thunder.

Or nvidia could release their next gen just ahead of ATI's refresh, then ATI will be comparing the refresh to the GTX, when a geforce 9 is out lol.

Anyway, just a few random scenarios, maybe none of them will happen, maybe ATI will be able to come up with an nvdia crusher, who knows, I'm not a fortune teller. BUT, I do know that competition is GOOD for the market. So even though I prefer nvidia, what I prefer is that BOTH companies release GREAT cards, so that they will continue to compete and release great cards frequently. We, as consumers, benifit from competition far more than crushing :)
 
ZerazaX said:
Refresh to keep the pressure on AMD and gain even more market share would be why, from a business perspective, they should release them.

I mean look at Intel and its constant price slashing and new processor releases despite the fact that AMD has been pretty much down and out for the last year...
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You do have a very good point. I guess most of my opinion stems from how the hardware affects the mentality of a lot of developers. That, and I also don't see AMD's ATI division as much of a threat as their CPU division.
 
Because they bench on Vista.
and what I mis are DX10 benches.
But there aren't much of them.

I'am planning to using one HD2900XT to play Crysis in dX10 mode ofcourse on Vista.

This is XP and DX9 wich I don't care about. Graw 2 demo's run fine on my 8600GT and HD2900

I like the OC part. I think the Aim of ATI was that 1Ghz mark but power consumption made that not within reach. Even if it would scale well wich is unkown now the power draw would scale with it. Block the clock scaling.
With more chance of hotty Hotspots on the Die.

I would wait on factory OC'ed HD2900XT flavors with there own cooling solution or even water cooled version the once wich are more effective then the reference design.

I wonder if we could reach 900Mhz

I do think that memory bandwidth was ment for a R600 between 900Mhz to 1Ghz
That more in balance.

Lookin forward to Crysis. And around the 6th Driver release that will be around by then.
 
XamediX said:
I'm not sayign to sit on your haunches, because I would assume they are R&Din their asses off in the meantime. But you don't need new hardware to keep people buying cards. Like I for one would like to geta good year out of my $400-500 card before it gets trumped but somethign twice as fast. Plus, why develope better code when you can always rely on the hardware companies to bail you out with faster performing parts.
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Exactly. There is no need for NVIDIA to release a refresh or new architecture right now, but you can bet R&D is continuing as normal. That was Intel's saving grace and AMD's downfall - before Netburst was even completed they were working on Core, and look at how quickly they recovered from 3 years of getting pounded (they gained all the ground back in one quarter). AMD, on the other hand, waited until Core started kicking ass to begin work on K10; look at how that's turning out so far :p (they lost 3 years of hard work in one quarter).
 
Uh, isn't this the [H]?

'ATI has mentioned to us that the Radeon HD 2900 XT should be a great overclocker, in the right conditions nearing the 1 GHz clock frequency mark. We are certainly not there with these two video cards currently. Raising the clock frequencies does positively impact the performance of these video cards. We saw positive results in 3DMark06 with much improved pixel shader and vertex shader performance when overclocked. If these video cards could reach the 1 GHz barrier, they certainly might be a force to contend with. As it is however right now we seem to be hitting a brick wall at default voltages and thermal configuration. One thing is for certain, if you are overclocking, make sure you have a lot of airflow inside your case. I wouldn’t even think about overclocking with two of these in CrossFire right up next to each other as you saw in our configuration.'




What happened to the part where you guys tear the heat sink off of one of these things, strap on a giant waterblock on it, run it as a single card, and OC the hell out of it?! I was looking forward to this section since the earlier preview article, very disappointing.
 
Pepsiennis said:
Don't be rude. I was sincere.
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I wasn't trying to be rude to you, I was sincere too. I was making fun in general of all those posts in the last 2900 thread who were all claiming that 2900 beat everything else in some other review (that was apples to apples, and often had something weird going on, like testing at 1024x768), and thus the 2900 should have beat everything in the previous [H] review, and thus, [H] is being paid off.
But we can see that even in apples to apples, the 2900 doesn't beat everything.

I wasn't pointing at anyone in particular, I wasn't even pointing at you (I have no idea if you even posted in that last thread). I was just taking an opportunity to grab your post and run with it, since you gave such a great opening to my thoughts :) So, thanks.

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Mr_Lore said:
Uh, isn't this the [H]?
...
What happened to the part where you guys tear the heat sink off of one of these things, strap on a giant waterblock on it, run it as a single card, and OC the hell out of it?! I was looking forward to this section since the earlier preview article, very disappointing.
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I imagine these were review units that they have to return after the review. That is how sites usually get hardware to review. But dont worry, at some point I'm sure a [H]ardcore person will do it (if they haven't already), and post in the forums about thier results.
 
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