Joe Average ftw!!!
Guess maybe that concept of "Just Google it and copy and paste and get yourself a full Linux installation" doesn't fly with this guy, eh?
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30 days with Linux @ [H] Consumer
- Thread starter Jason_Wall
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Joe Average ftw!!!
Guess maybe that concept of "Just Google it and copy and paste and get yourself a full Linux installation" doesn't fly with this guy, eh?
That sounds good and dandy (I could careless about anything having to do with a Mac though) but 3dsmax is a pretty picky program sometimes so even if one program runs fine on VM, it doesn't mean something more powerful (like max) will run just as well.
Joe Average ftw!!!
Guess maybe that concept of "Just Google it and copy and paste and get yourself a full Linux installation" doesn't fly with this guy, eh?
Just as I predicted...sorry but having to use an external source to figure out how to do something that is simple to do in all other OSes is just lame.
Photoshop will run just fine in a VM; 3DStudio, that's another story altogether because it's a 3D application - an OpenGL 3D application although it does offer some DirectX rendering support iirc. Been a while since I've kept up with it, but but but...
I think VMWare and Parallels are very close - or they might actually offer it to some degree already - to allowing a VM to use the 3D acceleration capabilities of a high end 3D card for 3D application support.
From what I've researched of late, it's still experimental but it's getting there. Maybe someday we'll all be able to run anything we truly want to run under any OS we truly want to run.
Talk about cool...
I think VMWare and Parallels are very close - or they might actually offer it to some degree already - to allowing a VM to use the 3D acceleration capabilities of a high end 3D card for 3D application support.
From what I've researched of late, it's still experimental but it's getting there. Maybe someday we'll all be able to run anything we truly want to run under any OS we truly want to run.
Talk about cool...
Since version 6 or 7 of 3dsmax (I forget which one it was), DirectX 9 has worked better on every PC I've used then with OpenGL so I'm not sure if that will make a difference.
The bottom line...until Linux becomes as user friendly as Windows (or even a Mac), there is no reason for me to use it b/c if one OS does everything for me, there is no need to use another one to do small things that the other can do just fine.
The bottom line...until Linux becomes as user friendly as Windows (or even a Mac), there is no reason for me to use it b/c if one OS does everything for me, there is no need to use another one to do small things that the other can do just fine.
JOE AVERAGE FOR THE WIN!!!
Sorry, couldn't resist... hehehe
"V For Vindication" would be a nice sig for me right about now.
JUST KIDDING, folks, calm down... this is almost too easy, I swear.
Wait a second... I'm not a Linux snob, I'm actually considered one of the biggest Linux bashers around this place, go figure. But I'll take that as a compliment just the same.
I've long been a proponent of one concept with respects to computers:
"If it works for me, so be it. If one company can provide what I need, so be it."
That's my attitude about Windows for a variety of reasons, obviously the first and foremost isn't what most people think it might be - which is probably either ease of use or compatibility.
It's neither.
For me, it's familiarity. It's the standard. It works, and I know it works, and I know how it works, and I know why it works, and I know how to use it, and I know how to tweak it, and how to break it, fix it, optimize it, install it, wipe it, back it up, install software on it, print with it, etc etc.
Same can be said for Linux, in my case. Exactly the same things about Windows. Hell, I can say that about several OSes: Windows, Linux distros, OSX, BSD, FreeBSD, UNIX, BeOS, etc.
But for me, in my day-to-day computer usage activities, it's Windows for the win by a large margin because of the familiarity I've developed with it over my career. If someone new to computers starts out with Linux and never uses anything else, even just for a few minutes, their opinions will be slanted towards Linux because it's familiar to them, just as it would be to anyone else.
I'll be the first to admit I've used Windows in all its various incarnations more than any other OS I've come into contact, hence, it's my OS of choice (XP Pro at the moment, with 2K or 2K3 or XP x64 or Vista in the wings, imaged and ready to be restored in 10 mins or less at any time) for the stuff I need and want to do.
So, again:
To each his own, and more power to ya...
I've long been a proponent of one concept with respects to computers:
"If it works for me, so be it. If one company can provide what I need, so be it."
That's my attitude about Windows for a variety of reasons, obviously the first and foremost isn't what most people think it might be - which is probably either ease of use or compatibility.
It's neither.
For me, it's familiarity. It's the standard. It works, and I know it works, and I know how it works, and I know why it works, and I know how to use it, and I know how to tweak it, and how to break it, fix it, optimize it, install it, wipe it, back it up, install software on it, print with it, etc etc.
Same can be said for Linux, in my case. Exactly the same things about Windows. Hell, I can say that about several OSes: Windows, Linux distros, OSX, BSD, FreeBSD, UNIX, BeOS, etc.
But for me, in my day-to-day computer usage activities, it's Windows for the win by a large margin because of the familiarity I've developed with it over my career. If someone new to computers starts out with Linux and never uses anything else, even just for a few minutes, their opinions will be slanted towards Linux because it's familiar to them, just as it would be to anyone else.
I'll be the first to admit I've used Windows in all its various incarnations more than any other OS I've come into contact, hence, it's my OS of choice (XP Pro at the moment, with 2K or 2K3 or XP x64 or Vista in the wings, imaged and ready to be restored in 10 mins or less at any time) for the stuff I need and want to do.
So, again:
To each his own, and more power to ya...
Sabrewulf165
2[H]4U
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Yea...I'm "joe average" b/c I want an OS to be simple to use and allow for all of my computing needs to be met without any problems.
Typical Linux snobs...
Unless I'm just dense, I'd swear he's defending your position, try not to be so over-sensitive
Brian Boyko
[H] Consumer Editor
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I'm actually wondering if you can play Windows Games in Parellels - because if you can...
hamm3rhead
Gawd
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Sabayon Linux is gentoo based so you can use a gui (kuroo) or if you know the name of what you want to install you just type "emerge mozilla-firefox" or "emerge opera". As far as the available packages it's anything that's available to gentoo. The big sellers for me were intel 3945 wpa2 support, 3d drivers,beryl and media/dvd playback working correctly from bootdvd. Not to discourage people from the *buntu's, but sabayon is very multimedia oriented and pretty from the get-go. I guess even more importantly they have an active and helpful messageboard.
nigerian_businessman
[H]ard|Gawd
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Ok, are you attacking the idea of the statement or the validity of it? Are you saying that you cannot go to, say, the Ubuntu Installation Wiki, and copy and paste your way to a functional Linux install? Because if that is the basis of your argument, then you're wrong. If you're saying that this would be the wrong way to go about doing things, that learning the concepts behind them would be better, then you and I are in total agreement. But if you really just want to set up linux to play mp3s, browse the web, and do basic everyday computing tasks (besides gaming), you can quite literally copy and paste your way to that point.
When someone says "Windows needs permission to do anything" well, it's not like Linux distros don't have the sudo command and will bitch at you and stop dead in its tracks if a command "needs permission" to do something, now doesn't it?
Actually, I've found that Linux will happily let you walk right into a minefield of data loss and almost irrevocable changes to your system without so much as a hint of protest, so I have to disagree with you here. This is for me a good thing. For someone with no experience, maybe not so good.
So, we can all agree to disagree, but I prefer to just leave it at: to each his own. I don't have issues with Linux distros - and Beryl KICKS ASS as I usually say but it's not enough to make me wanna stick with any distro, sorry - and I can install and run/configure/compile any of them with the best of 'em.
Besides, BSD is better anyway.
I didn't mean to derail the thread, but as others have offered their opinions of the article, I felt justified in offering mine. I just wasn't looking for another Internet battle since we all know what arguing on the Internet is like.
Right?
If not, just highlight and copy this text with Control+C:
arguing on the internet
and paste that into Google's search box with Control+V and hit Enter. You'll find out quick enough...
Hey, I understand what you mean and as I said before, I don't have a problem with Windows. I'm not some Linux zealot looking to convert the unwashed masses. I just like Linux and, as with any operating system, often times misinformed or misconstrued statements do more harm than good so I feel a need to stand up and say "hold on a second, I disagree".
Windows is great for most people, but it does have its costs and Linux in a lot of ways is attempting to relieve some of those burdens. However, I do agree that for a signifigant portion of people, Linux is not ready for the desktop. Before you install Linux you should be familiar with things like backup routines, configuration files, where to look for help, what to do if all else fails and you just want Windows back. A lot of people don't think these things through and find out the hard way, and suggesting that this path is for everyone is at best optimistic and at worst downright misleading and harmful.
Thats one of the reasons I liked this article. It looked at things from the viewpoint of someone who isn't afraid to tinker a little bit, but overall doesn't feel comfortable building Linux from Scratch or something like that. That's a pretty accurate representation of the people the article was intended for -- the readers of this forum and others like it.
odoe
[H]F Junkie
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I'm a suse man myself for my linux needs, but I've thought about going the Ubuntu route. I don't use it day in and day out, so I'm sure if I did, much of the features would be more intuitive for me and not so alien as they can seem sometimes.
Not having to manually edit config files would be a big plus. Lots of apps now have gui managers, and admittedly I have not used the newest version of SWAT, but last time I did, it gave me quite a bit of trouble. I think robust gui manages have been a big plus for desktop linux. As far as simple web browsing, email and home tasks, I think it works great.
Not having to manually edit config files would be a big plus. Lots of apps now have gui managers, and admittedly I have not used the newest version of SWAT, but last time I did, it gave me quite a bit of trouble. I think robust gui manages have been a big plus for desktop linux. As far as simple web browsing, email and home tasks, I think it works great.
notanatheist
n00b
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You mean like Start, Run, cmd, ipconfig? Maybe you should try 'xterm -bg pink -fg green'
command line FOR THE WIN!!!!
Well, maybe Joe Average playing Frozen Bubble.
Are you that afraid of a keyboard? A mouse is so damned ineffecient.
Copy & Paste? Try highlight with the cursor and middle click with your wheel to paste. So often I forget that Windows can't do that! Yes, you need to Ctrl+Shift in some terminals because other keystrokes pass different commands. Terminals were around long before Windows.
To the guy whining about my selection of games.... did you miss the point? There is more than ONE game that runs NATIVELY on linux. I only desired to point on the fact. Another one of those RTFM moments.
To the BSD guy .... no comment. I'm happy with Gentoo, Slackware,and/or Archlinux. Even use Ubuntu on my laptop. Got respect for BSD users though. Know a network admin who runs BSD on her little Vaio. Mad respect but not my tea. Great troll but over some heads here.
What else? Enough from me. I'll just keep reading the new comments.
Nice read.
I used to use Windows. One day I built a second computer and installed Gentoo. Had both hooked to a KVM to switch back and forth. Basically would try to do things in Linux and would fall back to the Windows system if I got too frustrated. It didn't take long for things to start to make sense and I had little reason to ever use the Windows system. Ended up giving it to my gf and have not had a reason to build a new Windows system.
Pretty much the only glaring issue under Linux is 3d applications. Basically for everything else I think there are alternatives. I actually wasn't really that bummed about the lack of games either, an xbox is actually alot more cost effective if you think about it. Anyways the potential for Linux on the desktop is definitely there. Ubuntu is real slick.
Maybe home users are a little further off but businesses.. I could DEFINITELY see systems at work all running Ubuntu and life going on. Not much of a learning curve to use email and firefox in linux plus it'd be hell of a lot less work maintaining systems and having people screw over their systems. Plus things like backing up data is so much easier I would love it.
I used to use Windows. One day I built a second computer and installed Gentoo. Had both hooked to a KVM to switch back and forth. Basically would try to do things in Linux and would fall back to the Windows system if I got too frustrated. It didn't take long for things to start to make sense and I had little reason to ever use the Windows system. Ended up giving it to my gf and have not had a reason to build a new Windows system.
Pretty much the only glaring issue under Linux is 3d applications. Basically for everything else I think there are alternatives. I actually wasn't really that bummed about the lack of games either, an xbox is actually alot more cost effective if you think about it
. Anyways the potential for Linux on the desktop is definitely there. Ubuntu is real slick.Maybe home users are a little further off but businesses.. I could DEFINITELY see systems at work all running Ubuntu and life going on. Not much of a learning curve to use email and firefox in linux plus it'd be hell of a lot less work maintaining systems and having people screw over their systems. Plus things like backing up data is so much easier I would love it.
Anybody else see that there, in that screenshot I just took, of a Terminal window open under Ubuntu 6.10, with Firefox and this very thread there in the background, with text highlighted in the Terminal and text already on the Clipboard waiting to be pasted?
Anybody else see the specific keyboard shortcuts listed there? Silly me, looks like Shift+Ctrl+C to copy and Shift+Ctrl+V to paste. Go fucking figure that one out. So excuse me for making a point that a lot of people missed.
Just to explain why the additional shift when dealing with terminal programs, it's not for safety, or any thing like that. ctrl+c and ctrl+v are keystroke interrupts that have been defined since the very early Unix days. ctrl+c sends SIGINT, which by default terminates the running process immediately if it isn't given a custom signal handler. ctrl+v is used to cause the next keystroke to be part of the input and not treated like a special character. This can be used to include special keystrokes that would other wise cause an interrupt to occur (like ctrl+c). Their are also the annoying ctrl+s and ctrl+q that stop and start the I/O flow control (hit ctrl+s type a word, then hit ctrl+q and watch it suddenly appear).
ShadowVlican
Limp Gawd
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interesting....... but if Sabayon can do that out of the box, why can't Ubuntu?
it'd be nice if all the big desktop distros could combine their efforts into one uber distro
An equivalent for Launchy is Gnome Launch Box (or Katapult for KDE), all of these are heavily influenced by Quicksilver for OS X. Tomboy is a sticky note program included in GNOME. Glipper is a clipboard manager for GNOME.
These productivity-improving apps are out there, it's just you need to find them. For windows apps it's often your friends who tell you about cool new apps, for Linux it can be harder, but asking in http://ubuntuforums.org/ if there's an app that does what you want is a good start. Also, 'apt-cache search something' will search all available packages, and there's also a tagged-based package browser.
That would be cool but it seems like whenever people mention that, the Linux nazis get all pissy about it (or at least based on my experiences.)
Sabayon can do that because it's a source-based distribution - since source is free speech in the US, and source by itself doesn't actually decrypt DVDs or whatever, there's no restrictions on distributing it. You the user end up compiling the source into the binary, which you might not be able to redistribute. Binary distributions OTOH have to worry about this and hence can't distribute pre-compiled DMCA-infringing software. However, people in other countries can - see http://debian-multimedia.org/ for libdvdcss packages (I haven't kept track of where the Ubuntu ones are).
heatlesssun
Extremely [H]
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First off, good article! Some useful info here. Im a Microsoftie I admit. All 9 of my machines are Windows based. Im a business software developer, and thats a world thats really nothing but Windows. I dont pay for the software, and other OSs simply dont provide me anything that I need, especially to make a living, which is PRIMARY computing task.
That said, there was a time ten years ago when I was VERY concerned about the Windows platform becoming displaced by free, high quality open source software. After all, its free, and businesses love to cut anything thing they can for a buck. So, I was worried about my keeping up my skill set and embarked on learning Linux and developing for the platform.
So here we are ten years later, and Linux is still not ready for the desktop, Windows market is still pretty much the same, and the Windows desktop is still everywhere.
So what happened?
To be honest, heres part the problem:
wget -O foo2zjs.tar.gz http://foo2zjs.rkkda.com/foo2zjs.tar.gz
tar zxf foo2zjs.tar.gz
cd foo2zjs
make
./getweb 1020
sudo make install
sudo make install-hotplug
sudo make cups
To install a printer driver? I dont claim that Windows is idiot proof or easier to use than a Mac, but really. To further stress the point, I love Windows Media Center. Im big into convergence devices. My workstations are my primary TVs (one Vista Ultimate and one XP Media Center). So I started to look at MythTV and Sage, when they first came out years ago. Now they may be much better, and I know that Myth has PIP and is a client/server app and better architected, but I just wanted to watch TV on my PC!
Bottom line: Windows gets the job done, maybe not the best way a lot of the times, but it does tend to be a fairly straight forward process in the most cases. After reading this article, looks like things are better, but once again, the more you try to do on Linux, the more time you end up killing. Not that Ive not killed a lot of time with Windows, but still, popping in a DVD, and an hour latter having a system that plays my games, records my shows, syncs with my phone, rips my CDs, etc, without doing anything else is still nice.
One thing I think is slick and worth burning some time on is Beryl. I love eye candy! Id love to see this on Vista! I may have to try out Ubuntu just for this!
So, Im not knocking anything. Since I dont pay for Microsoft software for the most part because of my job, Linux has no economic incentive for me. If I had to pony up $400 for Vista Ultimate, well, I just wouldnt unless there was something in it for me economically speaking.
I like seeing Linux and open source get better as it makes the commercial folks get off their hinnies!
That said, there was a time ten years ago when I was VERY concerned about the Windows platform becoming displaced by free, high quality open source software. After all, its free, and businesses love to cut anything thing they can for a buck. So, I was worried about my keeping up my skill set and embarked on learning Linux and developing for the platform.
So here we are ten years later, and Linux is still not ready for the desktop, Windows market is still pretty much the same, and the Windows desktop is still everywhere.
So what happened?
To be honest, heres part the problem:
wget -O foo2zjs.tar.gz http://foo2zjs.rkkda.com/foo2zjs.tar.gz
tar zxf foo2zjs.tar.gz
cd foo2zjs
make
./getweb 1020
sudo make install
sudo make install-hotplug
sudo make cups
To install a printer driver? I dont claim that Windows is idiot proof or easier to use than a Mac, but really. To further stress the point, I love Windows Media Center. Im big into convergence devices. My workstations are my primary TVs (one Vista Ultimate and one XP Media Center). So I started to look at MythTV and Sage, when they first came out years ago. Now they may be much better, and I know that Myth has PIP and is a client/server app and better architected, but I just wanted to watch TV on my PC!
Bottom line: Windows gets the job done, maybe not the best way a lot of the times, but it does tend to be a fairly straight forward process in the most cases. After reading this article, looks like things are better, but once again, the more you try to do on Linux, the more time you end up killing. Not that Ive not killed a lot of time with Windows, but still, popping in a DVD, and an hour latter having a system that plays my games, records my shows, syncs with my phone, rips my CDs, etc, without doing anything else is still nice.
One thing I think is slick and worth burning some time on is Beryl. I love eye candy! Id love to see this on Vista! I may have to try out Ubuntu just for this!
So, Im not knocking anything. Since I dont pay for Microsoft software for the most part because of my job, Linux has no economic incentive for me. If I had to pony up $400 for Vista Ultimate, well, I just wouldnt unless there was something in it for me economically speaking.
I like seeing Linux and open source get better as it makes the commercial folks get off their hinnies!
The reason "Linux nazis" get all pissy about the concept of "one uber distro" is because we recognize the strength which diversity in Linux has brought us. Many people move away from Windows/Mac for the very reason that they do not like one company dictating to them how to use their computer, how their computing experience should be, and what they can and CAN NOT do with their computers. If there was simply one Linux distribution, then Linux users who did not want to compile their own kernel/X11/package manager from scratch would be stuck in that same situation.
As it is, you can go with Gentoo/Slackware if you want a distribution which puts your closer to your hardware, with less refinement. Debian if you want a rock solid release which will never force a restart, Ubuntu if you want an easy desktop to use with bleeding-edge features, SUSE if you want to sell your soul to Satan, etc. Each one of these distributions differes from each other in important ways, but they are similar in many others. Do you wish that Linux handled drivers differently? Trust me, if the KERNEL changes the way that device drivers are handled in Linux, every single distro will be adapting to it.
I also have never understood the aversion to the command line. With a little effort, you can completely replace utilities like "Spacemonger" in Windows. In the old days when I used Windows, this was an invaluable tool. Now I simply "du -abx" into a text file and I can easily see which files are taking up the most space on my hd. Configuration files are a dream, not a burden. Do I want to make sure I keep my X configurations from install to install? Simple. Transfer it to the new computer and put in the new settings I want. Done.
Installing programs too difficult from the terminal? I sometimes can't believe how easy a simple "sudo apt-get install firefox" is compared to going to mozilla.org (or was it firefox.com? Who cares, I don't need to know!), finding the firefox .exe, downloading it. opening it. Clicking through, picking an install directly, restarting my computer for the changes to take effect, etc. etc.
Sure there are problems with Linux, but a FULLY FUNCTIONAL terminal will never be one of them. The power it puts in the hands of the user is phenomenal. I've seen Linux mock-ups of the task manager, especially in Ubuntu. Who needs it? "ps -e" and "top" will do everything I ever need a so-called task manager to do, and with "kill", or if necessary, "kill -9" I can GUARANTEE that a process will be shut down. None of those error messages about Windows not being able to end a process.
This may seem to be difficult to "Joe average", but then again, I have never bought into Ubuntu's #1 bug. I don't believe that Windows is Linux's enemy. Different OSes for different people. For those who desire Freedom, power and respect, Linux. For those who value ease of use at the cost of DRM, closed systems and trusted computing, Microsoft is undoubtedly the way to go.
Who cares if Linux can't convert Joe Average? I sure don't. Does that make me a Linux snob? Maybe. However, consider this. Joe Average doesn't drive the development of Linux, if the OS is not geared towards Joe Average, that IS NOT A FAILURE, as long as the people who DO use it are satisfied, it matters not a whit to Linux if other people don't like it, because Linux is free. Free as in beer, and free as in Freedom. It doesn't need to sell copies to Joe Average, it isn't threatened by users downloading it for free. Instead, it thrives on intelligent people, who see a bug, look at the source code, and fix it.
Together we make a stronger Operating System. Together we deny closed source, binary drivers, and DRM. And if one day Linux DOES become the dominant OS on the desktop, we can say we did it without compromising our ideals. And THAT will not be a failure, that will be victory.
hamm3rhead
Gawd
- Joined
- Jul 14, 2004
- Messages
- 537
Sabayon is a newer distro if you take a look at http://distrowatch.com/ you'll see Ubuntu is the top dog.. As previously stated certain functionality can be included in source based distributions that cannot legally be included in binary form. To be clear what that means, source based distros like gentoo compile packages as they are installed making them "slower" to install. There's a lot of back and forth on which is better but it comes down to a matter of user preference. Sabayon is obviously not a pure source or pure binary distro it's a convenient mix made for tons of functionality whether booted from dvd or from a hard drive. Things like ati or nvidia 3d drivers only come in binary format which pisses off the OSS crowd greatly so they are not generally included in the big boy distros. To each his own.. I have spent a lot of time running servers and desktop machines and ultimately I use whatever gives me the best support at the time.
heatlesssun
Extremely [H]
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- Nov 5, 2005
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You are very correct Ssmith; the configurability of Linux is its great strength. But its also why it will probably never be a big player in the desktop OS market.
Because Linux is so configurable, its used in a lot of appliances. But at that point, when its in an appliance, its becomes standardized. If you think about, the Windows desktop has become just that, an appliance. When a version of Windows, like XP and eventually Vista, gets widely distributed, it becomes not only the most prevalent desktop OS; it becomes one of the most widely used devices in the world. Fairly standard and well understood. If I develop an application for Windows, I have a well tested and widely used OS to deploy to.
So this situation is opposite that of Linux, its a one size fits all appliance, and THE reason that Windows is still popular in that its a standard operating environment for the desktop.
Remember, this idea was what made Java so interesting in the beginning, a write once, run everywhere platform. Thing was that Windows had already solved that problem by the time Java was born.
So there will always be a place for the various flavors of Linux with their various strengths and weaknesses. But there will also always be a place for a standard general purpose OS for the masses. Hate or love it, Windows provides a substrate for the computing world. A hardware company can develop a piece of hardware, a set of Windows drivers, and be able to widely distribute to millions of people with those drivers. That allows that company or others then to develop for a smaller market.
So yes, the Windows monopoly can be a bad thing if youre an OS, but for apps developers and hardware makers, it provides a single market that is large enough to make a product profitable will minimizing costs.
Because Linux is so configurable, its used in a lot of appliances. But at that point, when its in an appliance, its becomes standardized. If you think about, the Windows desktop has become just that, an appliance. When a version of Windows, like XP and eventually Vista, gets widely distributed, it becomes not only the most prevalent desktop OS; it becomes one of the most widely used devices in the world. Fairly standard and well understood. If I develop an application for Windows, I have a well tested and widely used OS to deploy to.
So this situation is opposite that of Linux, its a one size fits all appliance, and THE reason that Windows is still popular in that its a standard operating environment for the desktop.
Remember, this idea was what made Java so interesting in the beginning, a write once, run everywhere platform. Thing was that Windows had already solved that problem by the time Java was born.
So there will always be a place for the various flavors of Linux with their various strengths and weaknesses. But there will also always be a place for a standard general purpose OS for the masses. Hate or love it, Windows provides a substrate for the computing world. A hardware company can develop a piece of hardware, a set of Windows drivers, and be able to widely distribute to millions of people with those drivers. That allows that company or others then to develop for a smaller market.
So yes, the Windows monopoly can be a bad thing if youre an OS, but for apps developers and hardware makers, it provides a single market that is large enough to make a product profitable will minimizing costs.
nigerian_businessman
[H]ard|Gawd
- Joined
- Sep 3, 2004
- Messages
- 1,535
Quoted for truth and great justice!
{just an aside - not a threadjack}
Question for you...What is the IP address of your computer? Don't answer the question. Tell me how you'd answer it. I ask because
1) Admittedly, it isn't basic like, say, plugging in a monitor is basic, but it is basic for network setup, which is what the vast majority of "Average Joe" users will be doing with their PC
2) A variety of applications, from multiplayer games to web servers to chat clients, require you to know it.
3) Unless it's stabilized and you can find it under Network on the Control Panel, (very, very few are, and no Average Joe would be), I can't off the top of my head think of how to get this information in Windows without issuing a command. Maybe I'm just too used to Start >> Run >> ipconfig.
So ... how would you find your IP address?
As I Lay Dying
Gawd
- Joined
- Aug 8, 2005
- Messages
- 975
acctually you have to run cmd and then ipconfig......lol, but yes good point
[H]ardcore
n00b
- Joined
- Feb 18, 2005
- Messages
- 5
I'm so glad [H] did an article about Linux (especially gaming)! As a mover in the gaming industry, hopefully some companies will be persuaded to develop on Linux in the future. I've been gaming with Linux for about 4-5 years now and have found (at least with Nvidia drivers) the performance to be about on par with Windows drivers (native games like Q4, enemy territory). I encourage anyone interested in Linux gaming/hardware to check out Phoronix.com.
nigerian_businessman
[H]ard|Gawd
- Joined
- Sep 3, 2004
- Messages
- 1,535
shooting my cause in the foot here, but it works on linux too so what the hell.
http://whatismyipaddress.com/
notanatheist
n00b
- Joined
- Mar 6, 2007
- Messages
- 3
Before getting to you shooting yourself in the foot I'd like to second the motion by the Nigerian on commending SSmiths post.
Now, having shot yourself in the foot... See that IP? Is that the IP that your computer has? Not likely. If you have a DSL modem or a router then you likely have a 192.168.*.* address and not a big fat wide open IP that the rest of the world sees. If you don't have a router and you are silly enough to plug a Windows box directly into a cable modem then I'll be cleaning malware off your computer sometime in the future.
So, if I go to the above website it'll tell me my IP is 67.171.***.*** but my computer is 192.168.*.***. Armed with that information I can decide what ports to open or forward on my router to my internal PCs. Don't forget to put a bandage on that hole before you get blood all over the floor.
Jason_Wall
[H] Consumer Managing Editor
- Joined
- Jul 22, 2005
- Messages
- 2,138
As far as the printer drivers, I would much prefer the situation with Linux, where it's at least possible for a user to design a workaround instead of having to waitaround for the manufacturer to release drivers. This is the benefit of open source programming.
In contrast, Vista has extraordinarily poor printer support. And now we have to wait for Canon and Lexmark and HP to release functional drivers for their devices.
You got it. Actually, I have a low-end machine I'm going to try it on first. Been awhile since I tried smashing my head on the Linux wall.
Ok no flames, please...You might have gotten the picture by now but... great article. Outstanding.
I haven't used linux in years and it gave me a good idea of how far it's progressed, at least in the Ubuntu flavor.
No, that's a lie. I use Linux (rather, FreeBSD with Linux libraries) but not for general desktop use. Just webserving and some perl stuff, mostly. I don't consider Linux ready for real world Desktop use--I have a LOT of better ways to spend my time than dicking around trying to get 1920x1200 working on my monitor.
But.. It's getting there. Outstanding job with APT--that's a real 'selling' point. I'd imagine that things will progress from here, and eventually start pushing hard against vendors and Linux support.
Very, very well done article.
I haven't used linux in years and it gave me a good idea of how far it's progressed, at least in the Ubuntu flavor.
No, that's a lie. I use Linux (rather, FreeBSD with Linux libraries) but not for general desktop use. Just webserving and some perl stuff, mostly. I don't consider Linux ready for real world Desktop use--I have a LOT of better ways to spend my time than dicking around trying to get 1920x1200 working on my monitor.
But.. It's getting there. Outstanding job with APT--that's a real 'selling' point. I'd imagine that things will progress from here, and eventually start pushing hard against vendors and Linux support.
Very, very well done article.
haysupimark
n00b
- Joined
- May 31, 2006
- Messages
- 46
Before I make my point, I wish to say that I've been working with unix and linux systems for several years now. I love the platforms for their capabilities, and projects like Ubuntu and SUSE have made incredible strides in usability in just the last 18 months. I've done Linux-From-Scratch projects, and I always have a Gentoo system nearby.
That said, if you don't know anything about Linux, there's a major problem. Maybe I can illustrate this:
Last week my parents came out to visit and wanted to see what the Vista hubbub was all about. So we installed it on my regular computer- fresh install. 20 minutes later they were watching a DVD on it and going through my Beatles albums I had ripped (so that I could put it onto my iPod).
Compare that to 3 weeks ago when I last tried out Ubuntu on the same system. The installation took closer to 40 minutes. Getting nvidia's drivers working was a nightmare- even with all 3 package management systems I still needed to reconfigure Xorg manually, compile a new kernel, and then use the NVIDIA installer script. It took a week of trolling through boards and asking around some people much smarter than I am to finally get mp3 support. Beryl crashed on every other log in. I still can't get any DVDs to play.
Vista just worked. Complain about all it's problems if you want, but it did everything asked of it without requiring any kind of compilation, configuration, or system hacking.
Ubuntu didn't.
Am I complaining? No. Having a Gentoo system, I know for a fact that I can get anything I want to work with a little effort. But it's still far too difficult for 80% of the people who use computers. The people who need automatic updates and pop-up reminders to install or update their anti-virus software. The people who can't be bothered to uninstall something or even perform basic maintenance.
The people who miss Clippy.
That said, if you don't know anything about Linux, there's a major problem. Maybe I can illustrate this:
Last week my parents came out to visit and wanted to see what the Vista hubbub was all about. So we installed it on my regular computer- fresh install. 20 minutes later they were watching a DVD on it and going through my Beatles albums I had ripped (so that I could put it onto my iPod).
Compare that to 3 weeks ago when I last tried out Ubuntu on the same system. The installation took closer to 40 minutes. Getting nvidia's drivers working was a nightmare- even with all 3 package management systems I still needed to reconfigure Xorg manually, compile a new kernel, and then use the NVIDIA installer script. It took a week of trolling through boards and asking around some people much smarter than I am to finally get mp3 support. Beryl crashed on every other log in. I still can't get any DVDs to play.
Vista just worked. Complain about all it's problems if you want, but it did everything asked of it without requiring any kind of compilation, configuration, or system hacking.
Ubuntu didn't.
Am I complaining? No. Having a Gentoo system, I know for a fact that I can get anything I want to work with a little effort. But it's still far too difficult for 80% of the people who use computers. The people who need automatic updates and pop-up reminders to install or update their anti-virus software. The people who can't be bothered to uninstall something or even perform basic maintenance.
The people who miss Clippy.
Commander Suzdal
2[H]4U
- Joined
- Jul 29, 2004
- Messages
- 2,134
Ohh, that's a toughy--hmmm...
Click Start
Click Network Connections
Double-Click Local Area Connection
Select Support Tab
Gee, whaddya know? There's my IP address... wait--it took me 3 seconds and my hand never left my mouse to reach for my keyboard. That can't be right, can it? Don't I have to use a CLI? Hmmm, guess not...
Lothar the Lotharian
Gawd
- Joined
- Aug 31, 2004
- Messages
- 674
Are you a professional 3D artist/modeler/texture guy, or are you just a student? I say this because I've been on both sides of the fence, using Max back during my school days and then branching out once I left school to whatever was given to me. I always found being locked into one program/mindset limited my employment opportunities. Need a lightwave guy? I'm your man. Need a maya man? I'm there, too. Seriously, once you learn one package, you can learn them all, it's all about figuring out how to make the program do what it needs to in order to get the job done. Not saying I don't have my preferences, but that's neither here nor there.
1) Have you ever heard of blender? Actually reminds me a lot of 3ds Max in the old days.
2) For the most part, my stuff installed by default. My only hiccup was wireless, and it was due to a router issue. Add/Remove & Automatix worked like a champ, by the way.
3) Ok, Photoshop is the king, I know. I've made quite a good living using it. But what are you going to do when a studio wants you to utilize their in-house imaging tools? Shun the job just because it's not Photoshop?
Here's my rant for the day:
Vendor support sucks, and it's not the community's fault. A lot of these guys should be commended for probing the hardware and writing their own stuff just so that a certain printer/whatever can work. The reason old stuff works is either a) the manufacturer finally got a stable driver out or b) the culmination of community effort & time was finally enough to get it working.
The type of people that adopt bleeding-edge hardware are the same type of folks that are running linux on a sub-machine (or have at least given it a spin) and would appreciate having drivers so that they could at least think about running it on their main computer. But until companies can see that drivers=$$$, it simply won't happen.
Sad part is, I work in marketing. Every dollar that you can gain, especially in niche markets, is one that your competition would have to fight tooth and nail to get back from you once you're established. The enthusiast market is a niche with a ton ton TON of cash, and it would make good business sense to provide stable linux drivers upon release of a product. If nothing else, it shows serious commitment to that market and speaks volumes in the way of added value to your product.
Photoshop will probably never make it to linux, they just don't have to worry about it. People literally buy machines tailored to running Adobe's software, and they just don't have a large enough base of linux users to make it worthwhile. Look how badly they drug their feet with releasing CS3 as universal for the Mac, and that's a large part of their user segment.
All I can say is that if you've got a problem with it, team up with a project like gimp (contribute to their art team, for example) and work with them to get the UI friendly and usable.