World’s First Analog Mechanical Keyboard

Megalith

Megalith

24-bit/48kHz
Staff member
Joined
Aug 20, 2006
Messages
13,000
Here is a look at a very special mechanical keyboard that should be useful for driving games and other genres that demand higher degrees of control.

Analog inputs can send a variable signal, which changes depending on how far or hard something is pressed. Think of the analog sticks on your Xbox or PlayStation controller. They're called that, because they transmit an analog signal, which changes based on how far in any direction you move it. Now imagine that sort of sensitivity on a keyboard switch.
 
shit this could actually pretty nice...if its not to expensive
 
Only worth it if the software takes advantage of it. Most arcade racers are designed around the FULL LOCK left/right steering that a keyboard provides.
 
Looks pretty cool but guaranteed to be pricey. This could greatly change up a lot of games and gives control I have long longed for. I have never understood why some keyboards are so darn expensive. I bought my sidewinder x4 for $28 now they are $240 what gives?
 
AK0tA said:
I bought my sidewinder x4 for $28 now they are $240 what gives?
Click to expand...

Things aren't made with quality components anymore. They are now made with magic fairy dust and that is a finite source, hence the price.
 
  • Like
Reactions: AK0tA
like this
I prefer game controllers, so I sure hope they branch off and make one. If only my Orbweaver or n52te could do that! :jawdrop: If they build a well conceived game controller and I will buy it.
I'd expect it to be like manual typewriters where the harder you hit the key the bolder the type gets.
 
I am interested in an analog keyboard, but the lack of a numpad is something I need or this becomes an overpriced gaming only accessory which I won't end up buying. Unfortunately I am sure even with the removal of the numpad keys to keep the price down, this will still be a very expensive keyboard.
 
Time2Kill said:
Only worth it if the software takes advantage of it. Most arcade racers are designed around the
Click to expand...

XBox 360 controller (not even the XBox One controller) and the keyboard controls are an unusable afterthought.
 
Good for FPS and RPG but I won't be giving up my steering wheel and joystick anytime soon.
 
Been wanting this for years, but I think a gamepad might be a tad better as others have stated (like the G13 or something).

Could have used this in MGS which required fine control in some areas, so I would use a controller and then switch to KB/mouse when in close and I needed fine aiming. Was annoying.
 
The playstation 2 had analogue, pressure-accurate buttons, and VERY Few games took advantage of it, but those that did were pretty awesome. MGS2 had the shooting mechanic wherein if you released the button lightly, you would just put down the gun, but if you released quickly, you would fire the weapon.

The MAIN issue I could see with this sort of keyboard is typing quality, and resistance. I would LOVE if the resistance were super high, so you could easily make super-precise movements, but a lot of people would be put off by a huge resistance. The typing quality would be pretty terrible UNLESS they put in some sort of user-controlled haptic actuation feedback, as in, for typing you can tell the keyboard firmware by what depression lever you want to have the keys actuated, and for purely binary tasks, (like typing), the keys would give you a noticeable bump when you depress the keys far enough to actuate.

The alternative is that you could tell the firmware to actuate the keys at, like, 99% pressure, so you can type like a godamn ogre, like me, and no have your fat-ass fingers actuate nearby keys on accident....


If the just RAN with this, it could really take off!
 
This is such a great idea. There are no cons to this except maybe price? Got an old game that only supports gamepad style analogs? Map wasd to the x-y axis.

Expanding on the gun trigger concept... imagine if lightly pressing the key triggered the laser sight. I could literally come up with hundreds of ideas like that that would have practical use in a game. The thought of being able to sidestep in an fps fluidly like the analogs of a gamepad has me all excited.

Haptic or force feedback isn't what the Wooting One is pushing here. Analog key tracking is akin to Apple's Force Touch on its trackpad. It's just expanding on an existing concept implementing otherwise older tech. Adding anything varying the pushback on each individual key would be a lot more complicated, thus expensive, to fabricate. Would be cheaper to just let the user swap out the spring or something.

Although, with analog key movement tracking, you could use software to honor a "trigger" event early or late during the keystroke.
 
Absalom said:
This is such a great idea. There are no cons to this except maybe price? Got an old game that only supports gamepad style analogs? Map wasd to the x-y axis.

Expanding on the gun trigger concept... imagine if lightly pressing the key triggered the laser sight. I could literally come up with hundreds of ideas like that that would have practical use in a game. The thought of being able to sidestep in an fps fluidly like the analogs of a gamepad has me all excited.

Haptic or force feedback isn't what the Wooting One is pushing here. Analog key tracking is akin to Apple's Force Touch on its trackpad. It's just expanding on an existing concept implementing otherwise older tech. Adding anything varying the pushback on each individual key would be a lot more complicated, thus expensive, to fabricate. Would be cheaper to just let the user swap out the spring or something.

Although, with analog key movement tracking, you could use software to honor a "trigger" event early or late during the keystroke.
Click to expand...
up down, left right, analog axis are positive and negative values to games 0 being neutral, they'd need an emulation software or some sorting to mask the keyboard from games at times.
 
Last edited:
Although the one deficiency of the kb/m that keeps PC users at Master Race level and not Super Being Level is the lack of progression in the movement keys.

They have identified the problem, however, this is not the solution.
caddys83 said:
In before pcmasterrace call it gimmick!:whistle:
Click to expand...

Did that serve?
 
This looks more like a solution looking for a problem. I'm sorry but the cost will likely not justify its usefulness.
 
Nice idea that will hopefully get some traction.
Its uses are limited, racing games are not the best one.
The ability to hold a particular position will be tricky.

It might not make mainstream because its another way for a keyboard to develop a fault. Mfrs wont be happy with higher cost, complexity and failure rate.
There are already over 100 switches to go wrong, on LED keyboards up to 400 LEDs and now 100 analogue position detectors.
If they dont sell well costs will remain high.

I'll be surprised if this gets traction.
 
Yeah, we got promised this by another company a year or so ago. Never heard anything else and we asked for updates.
 
I think it would be a pain in the ass to hold small differences in press depth. Likely what they are doing to make this work in current games is mapping controller axis to analog keys. Kind of like Xpadder in reverse.

I would (and do) just use an Xbox 360 controller for games that benefit from analog controls (Racing Games, Witcher 2).

Probably very expensive and not great to type on either...
 
Snowdog said:
I think it would be a pain in the ass to hold small differences in press depth. Likely what they are doing to make this work in current games is mapping controller axis to analog keys. Kind of like Xpadder in reverse.

I would (and do) just use an Xbox 360 controller for games that benefit from analog controls (Racing Games, Witcher 2).

Probably very expensive and not great to type on either...
Click to expand...

That's the major irk with me. An analogue interface should be easy to control: resistance and smoothness = easy to control. You wouldn't want a steering wheel that clicks into position every time you turn it 120 degrees left or right. So an analogue keyboard that has ANY form of feedback would be kinda hard to use, unless that feedback did not disturb the control over the pressure. At the same time, if the keyboard did NOT have feedback, and instead had a stiff, linear travel, it would not be real fun to type on.

so many questions with this.
 
I'll be standing in line to buy one if it's ever released, but I'm not getting excited until it actually is released.
 
Oh crap.... Why can't it be a standard full size keyboard!!! Looks like I will have to wait
 
The key travel is the biggest problem. It's hard to be precise with ~5mm (guessing) of downward travel. Looking at the video it seems that there are definitely a certain number of "steps", like maybe 8 or 16 as the key is pressed down.
The second biggest problem is cross-key contamination. What I mean is, if I slightly press on the W key to accelerate (slowly), then I press the D key to steer to the right, am I really going to keep the W key at the exact same height (position) as I start pressing the D key? I doubt it. Suddenly I've floored the accelerator as I turn, resulting in a spin out.
Maybe it works better with practice.
I am interested.
 
Oh i remember that aimpad i rather have that than full sized keyboard i imange typing on such a thing would create some awkward accidental presses or ghosts.
 
Semantics said:
Oh i remember that aimpad i rather have that than full sized keyboard i imange typing on such a thing would create some awkward accidental presses or ghosts.
Click to expand...

That was the first thing I thought when I saw it. Why aren't they doing this as a gaming keypad. That makes more sense than a keyboard. It should keep costs down and and also not interfere with your favorite keyboard. Though it appears they may keep costs down, by only doing this to a few keys:

Wooting one FAQ
"Are all the keys analog?

The prototype at the moment has 16 analog keys: QWER, ASDF, Ctrl, Alt, capslock, spacebar and arrow keys. We’re still experimenting what the maximum amount of keys are that games can support, but our goal is to make the entire keyboard analog while keeping the keyboard affordable."

Bottom line: It is an interesting idea, but I think the ergonomics of hovering hand over a keyboard feathering the small range of motion of keyboard key for analog effect is quite awful. Better to have something purpose built with more range of motion and better ergonomics. (like analog joysticks and triggers that this software re-purposes to make some games work).

Edit:

If you want to mix analog in one hand, and mouse in the other, you can grab a flightstick, and have much more ergonomic solution, and you can have it today:
T.16000M - Ambidextrous Joystick - PC USB | Thrustmaster
 
Last edited:
lmadsen said:
Eh, I'm not ashamed to say we had all sorts of problems with our Kickstarter. You can only make things better by failing, and we have done a lot of both.

To my knowledge, there is no one else who has worked on this more than me so I have a pretty informed opinion. We have a Youtube channel that I have posted videos on from time to time: Aimpad if you want to see what we've been up to as well as some more technical stuff.

We have focused on making the technology easy for manufacturers to adopt. Our vision has always been to make this type of feature a standard and expected way to play using a keyboard and mouse. For the past year or so I have been playing through my Steam Library using our prototypes and I can honestly say, the way that normal keyboards are used for movement in many of today's games is broken.
Click to expand...


So are you guys still looking to see this as a standalone controller or are you now primarily trying to license the technology? Do you have any patents?
 
This mostly seems like a solution to a problem that has a better solution. Instead of a whole analog keyboard, this seems like it would be much better served by a one-handed gamepad with analog control for FPS games (since you would want to use a mouse in the other hand), a steering wheel and pedals for racing games, or a joystick for any sort of flight/space type game.
 
Semantics said:
up down, left right, analog axis are positive and negative values to games 0 being neutral, they'd need an emulation software or some sorting to mask the keyboard from games at times.
Click to expand...

Mapping a key depress as either a positive or negative contribution to an analog axis value should be relatively straightforward. Should be able to do that at the driver level. Although, having a physical keyboard detected by the OS as a joystick/gamepad input device would be a bit awkward. Then again, this is all unprecedented stuff. Anything without native support is going to be viewed as hack'ish. I'm getting SpaceOrb 360 nostalgic flashbacks now...
 
lmadsen said:
Our efforts have been on licensing the technology. I think there is value in the technology being in a stand alone controller (particularly for those people who have already invested in a $150+ keyboard). But, there are plenty of people that have never been convinced that a mechanical keyboard is really worth the cost for gaming. I personally feel this type of technology justifies that cost, and so it makes sense for it to be integrated into a full keyboard as well. I personally use the full keyboard prototype on a daily basis because it is there when I want to game, and I just hit a button to turn it off when I want to type normally. We leave it up to the manufacturer on what type of product they want to market. We have two issued U.S. Patents and International patents are pending: https://www.google.com/search?tbo=p&tbm=pts&hl=en&q=inassignee:"Aimpad,+LLC"
Click to expand...

Perhaps you can answer some questions regarding the general usage of these keys?

1: What is the key feedback like, as in, is there a tactile report and/or audible click?

2: (if 1 == true) Is the feedback the decision of the given manufacturer, or is it pivotal to the analogue nature of the keyboard?

3: (if 1 == true) where does the feedback sit as-to how the key is actuated: Is the feedback reported at >0% analogue pressure, or is it at ~50%, 100%? How does the feedback affect the resistance?

5: With a standard CherryMX key, the key is depressed, the switch actuates at ~50% travel, the actuation can give audible or purely tactile feedback, the key can continue travelling past actuation and bottoms out (with some keyboards, a rubber O-Ring dampens the fall and prevents 100% depression), after which, the key begins moving up, passes the actuation point without feedback and returns to a neutral (0% depressed) position. What is the 'life-cycle' of the keypress with an analogue key?


These are the questions I, personally would like to have answered, though I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one.
 
KazeoHin said:
These are the questions I, personally would like to have answered, though I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one.
Click to expand...

If you read the FAQ and the earlier Aimpad info, you get the a pretty clear picture of what is going on.

1: All info indicates these are essentially Cherry Red Linear Switch variant (possibly a bit stiffer). As such there is no actuation point feedback, for normal key-press operation. Only bottoming out the key will make a sound.

2: It appears that the "Analog" reading is independent of normal key press actuation. They are separate mechanisms. There is a traditional Cherry Linear key-press reader and a light sensor that tracks location. It should also be obvious that you don't want feedback bump in the key travel when you are doing depth based readings as part of the key-press.

3: There is no mechanical feedback. These will be linear key switches.

5: Cherry linear switches do not have audible or tactile feedback.
An introduction to Cherry MX mechanical switches | The Keyboard Company
 
Snowdog said:
If you read the FAQ and the earlier Aimpad info, you get the a pretty clear picture of what is going on.

1: All info indicates these are essentially Cherry Red Linear Switch variant (possibly a bit stiffer). As such there is no actuation point feedback, for normal key-press operation. Only bottoming out the key will make a sound.

2: It appears that the "Analog" reading is independent of normal key press actuation. They are separate mechanisms. There is a traditional Cherry Linear key-press reader and a light sensor that tracks location. It should also be obvious that you don't want feedback bump in the key travel when you are doing depth based readings as part of the key-press.

3: There is no mechanical feedback. These will be linear key switches.

5: Cherry linear switches do not have audible or tactile feedback.
An introduction to Cherry MX mechanical switches | The Keyboard Company
Click to expand...

I'm familiar with Cherry Red switches, however the questions you've answered are in relation to the Cherry switch, and not the method by which the analogue pressure value is derived. Is the full travel of the key from completely unpressed to completely bottomed out measured from 0-100%, or is it some other standard? For purely digital uses (I.E Typing) does the switch act simply as a standard Cherry switch?


Personally, if the full-key travel is the measure of analogue input, with an incredibly low-resistance Cherry "Red" switch, I would find that very difficult to accurately use.
 
KazeoHin said:
I'm familiar with Cherry Red switches, however the questions you've answered are in relation to the Cherry switch, and not the method by which the analogue pressure value is derived. Is the full travel of the key from completely unpressed to completely bottomed out measured from 0-100%, or is it some other standard? For purely digital uses (I.E Typing) does the switch act simply as a standard Cherry switch?


Personally, if the full-key travel is the measure of analogue input, with an incredibly low-resistance Cherry "Red" switch, I would find that very difficult to accurately use.
Click to expand...

Snowdog answered the questions pretty much how I would have. But, what happened to question #4? :)

To clarify a few things... For our solution, we recommend authentic Cherry MX RGB switches. When it comes to normal digital key presses, the activation experience is completely identical to any other keyboard key press. On Cherry switches, the contacts will meet at roughly 2mm down on the key press and this will send the keystroke. The analog signal is derived not through pressure, but distance. We are indirectly measuring pressure because there is a spring in the Cherry switch, but all we care about is how far down the key is being pressed. So, any spring could be used to provide any desired resistance. In our focus group testing most people feel that somewhere between a Cherry Red and a Cherry Black switch allows for the best feel and control (the new Cherry "Nature White" switch is just about perfect). You then have 4 mm of a key press to get a reading from. This may not seem like much, but it is important to realize a few things. I have a video that describes this in more detail , but if we directly compare our solution to an off the shelf xbox 360 controller, we can actually provide greater accuracy and control.

I can go into greater detail if you are interested, but long story short, we use the entire keypress for an analog reading, whereas at least 20% of the xbox controller range is thrown away to account for deadzone. We use a higher quality ADC resulting in significantly greater precision. We have significantly greater control of orthogonal directions.

Granted, I've been using this type of keyboard for over a year now, so I have acquired the necessary skill to control it accurately, but honestly, the learning curve is not that significant. If you were to turn on the "analog" capability but just play a game like you were using a normal keyboard (repeatedly tapping the key all the way down), the keyboard will respond exactly the same as how you are used to now. Over time as you get used to the feel you can gradually ease yourself into using the key with a little more finesse when you need it.
 
lmadsen said:
but if we directly compare our solution to an off the shelf xbox 360 controller, we can actually provide greater accuracy and control.
Click to expand...

Wow, that is impressive.

As for keystroke depth, 4mm would seem to be a hell of a lot better than 2mm in my mind.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top