Microsoft DirectX 12 Video

Well considering DX12 doesn't really have any innate graphics changes from D3D11 just making random shit is just as you can't cinematically show better resource management.
 
Biggest thing keeping devs on DX11 is that Windows 10 adoption keeps slowing down month over month, and it'll take 6+ years to catch up to Windows 7 at the current rate. And so devs have no incentive to design around DX12 to the exclusion of the massive Windows 7 base.

Thus it's DX11 or Vulkan for the foreseeable future, since Vulkan doesn't discriminate Windows versions, and does everything D3D12 does.
 
Windows 10 adoption may be slowing down among the general population, but it's is a pretty big hit with gamers, who are the target market. Steam has Windows 10 usage at 35%, which is not far behind Windows 7. At the rate gamers are switching to Windows 10 I could see developers utilizing DX12 much sooner than general population trends would suggest.
 
Biggest thing keeping devs on DX11 is that Windows 10 adoption keeps slowing down month over month, and it'll take 6+ years to catch up to Windows 7 at the current rate.

Windows 10 x64 will be the #1 OS according to the Steam survey this month. Windows 7 combined x64/x86 combined will remain #1 for a few more months than Windows 10 combined x64/x86 combined but only because of x86 systems, not exactly the target for AAA games these days on PCs.
 
Cool video and it is good to see they showed actual games in this.
 
Biggest thing keeping devs on DX11 is that Windows 10 adoption keeps slowing down month over month, and it'll take 6+ years to catch up to Windows 7 at the current rate. And so devs have no incentive to design around DX12 to the exclusion of the massive Windows 7 base.

Thus it's DX11 or Vulkan for the foreseeable future, since Vulkan doesn't discriminate Windows versions, and does everything D3D12 does.

I really hope this scenario comes to fruition. I would love to see DX/Microsoft's strangle hold on the industry wither away. It can only be a good thing if games become more accessible to other platforms and as you said, Vulkan doesn't discriminate.
 
I really hope this scenario comes to fruition. I would love to see DX/Microsoft's strangle hold on the industry wither away. It can only be a good thing if games become more accessible to other platforms and as you said, Vulkan doesn't discriminate.

Um, I think you posted in the wrong thread. ;) The scenario posted here was of DX12 taking off, not Vulkan. Oh well, I have no issue with DX 12 taking off since Direct X is the best supported games API anyways.

Ah, nevermind, the ignore function works so much better now. I did not even see the post you were responding too, thankfully. (DPI is a known Microsoft hater, I cannot take what he posts very seriously at all.) Yep, I am sure now that I will be accused of being Microsoft lover except for one thing, you never see me bashing the other options, wonder why that would be?
 
Biggest thing keeping devs on DX11 is that Windows 10 adoption keeps slowing down month over month, and it'll take 6+ years to catch up to Windows 7 at the current rate.

You're glossing over the fact that Windows 7 numbers are going to continue going down as Windows 10 numbers increase. It's not about "Catching up" to current Windows 7 numbers. There is also a distinction between office systems and systems that anyone will ever actually play games on. If you look at Steam numbers and similar, 10 is almost already overtaking 7. You still have businesses just now finally getting their systems off of XP, and usually going to 7 in those cases. That might keep numbers for 7 inflated but it also has nothing to do with gaming or which systems developers are going to target.
 
You're glossing over the fact that Windows 7 numbers are going to continue going down as Windows 10 numbers increase. It's not about "Catching up" to current Windows 7 numbers. There is also a distinction between office systems and systems that anyone will ever actually play games on. If you look at Steam numbers and similar, 10 is almost already overtaking 7. You still have businesses just now finally getting their systems off of XP, and usually going to 7 in those cases. That might keep numbers for 7 inflated but it also has nothing to do with gaming or which systems developers are going to target.

Exactly. Windows 7 is simply getting old, it's not the target for what's coming next. Perhaps Vulkan is that target but unless developers are trying to target also Android phones for AAA console/PC gaming titles I don't think Vulkan matters that much.
 
I give him far more credibility than known Microsoft shills.

You have good points. But you yourself say that you don't use Windows 10. I get some people don't like Windows 10 and don't what to use it. That's fine. I do and maybe I should use exactly what you're telling to use. I'd be happy to if you could tell me how continue use all of the software and hardware I currently use. I'm perfectly open minded. I don't mind spending time to do something better. But I don't see a lot of point in losing tons of capability for a political point.
 
Pretty sure those cut scene videos would look just as good played in media player on windows 95.

If they're totally serious about windows 10 / dx12, they'd stop the console porting bullshit. All those featured games I don't care about.
 
Hope the game developers support the new Vulkan API. Would love nothing more than to FULLY make the move to Linux and be rid of Microsoft and their "telemetry" BS once and for all. Not to mention forcing you to upgrade O.S. to get the latest Direct X build is something I despise as well. We desperately need a alternative to Windows and DirextX.
 
devs have no incentive to design around DX12 to the exclusion of the massive Windows 7 base.
What are you talking about? Making your graphics engine use DX12 does not, in any way, exclude Windows 7

That's what DirectX feature levels are all about, you can always use the latest version of the API, and down-level versions will remain compatible (though certain features become unavailable, obviously).
 
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Um, I think you posted in the wrong thread. ;) The scenario posted here was of DX12 taking off, not Vulkan. Oh well, I have no issue with DX 12 taking off since Direct X is the best supported games API anyways.

Ah, nevermind, the ignore function works so much better now. I did not even see the post you were responding too, thankfully. (DPI is a known Microsoft hater, I cannot take what he posts very seriously at all.) Yep, I am sure now that I will be accused of being Microsoft lover except for one thing, you never see me bashing the other options, wonder why that would be?

Not necessarily bashing and I'm hoping I can relieve any ire you might have toward my post. I don't discount the positive contributions that DirectX has made to PC gaming. It is THE defacto standard in the industry; I'm not denying that or decrying it. For a long, long time, Windows was the only place for gaming, period. With that landscape showing signs of change, a Windows-only (and more specifically, Windows 10 only) API is much more narrow in scope than at any time in the past. From a purely pragmatic point of view, a truly cross platform approach would simply serve all parties better. We can assume that Windows is the only platform capable of producing graphics for gaming, but that simply isn't true. From smartphones to set top boxes, to Steam Machines, and of course, our beloved PCs - not everything runs Windows 10.

If Microsoft were to expand access and compatibility across new frontiers, I'd be all for it. Until then, I'll keep my fingers crossed for Vulkan adoption. This, of course, also hinges on the two techs being at parity, or Vulkan being objectively more capable. This remains to be seen.

And to address your first snipe: No, this isn't the wrong thread. =) DX12 and Vulkan are the two options, and that exciting and enjoyable DX12 ad shows that this race will indeed be exciting to watch.
 
Windows 10 x64 will be the #1 OS according to the Steam survey this month. Windows 7 combined x64/x86 combined will remain #1 for a few more months than Windows 10 combined x64/x86 combined but only because of x86 systems, not exactly the target for AAA games these days on PCs.

Keep hanging on to that steam survey for dear life
 
Microsoft has created its own feedback loop for DX. MS ensured that DX was taught in academia early on. Because DX is pushed in academia, the industry knows its pool of candidates will mostly have DX experience, so they ask for DX knowledge. Academia then continues to push DX first because the industry is hiring primarily those with DX experience. Circular logic in a more corporeal form. DX12 will be the standard soon enough because that fundamental feedback loop hasn't changed.
 
Keep hanging on to that steam survey for dear life

You do realize that a lot of other surveys are showing similar trends? Just because people use the steam hardware survey to prove a point doesn't make it any less valid.
 
Microsoft has created its own feedback loop for DX. MS ensured that DX was taught in academia early on. Because DX is pushed in academia, the industry knows its pool of candidates will mostly have DX experience, so they ask for DX knowledge. Academia then continues to push DX first because the industry is hiring primarily those with DX experience. Circular logic in a more corporeal form. DX12 will be the standard soon enough because that fundamental feedback loop hasn't changed.


You are spot on. That has absolutely been the loop for as long as I can remember. Except of course for everything that isn't Windows/XBox. (PS1/2/3/4, mobile, etc) I'm curious to see if the industry continues the loop of having the MS devs and the everything-else devs. Vulkan may be the 'starting point' where it makes sense to consolidate and simply have 'game devs'. Then again, Microsoft has deep pockets and it would absolutely be in their best interest to keep the loop from academia to production solidly established.
 
Ok I just have to say it... if there are so many great upcoming DX 12 games coming why feature 3Dmark in your roll of games ? Of the games we see... the first four are Xbox ports published by Microsoft... then we see a benchmark for some reason. Ashes should be coming to Vulkan as well, and is interesting in that we might be able get a good idea of how the 2 APIs square off. I guess we all know its just a silly marketing video, still doesn't seem to me MS has a whole lot of DX12 stuff to show off. A few ports from Xbox published developers... a clip from a developer that seems to be supporting everything, and a clip from a benchmark. Hopefully MS has a few more interesting actual PC games coming for DX12 and not just a handful of Xbox game publishers produced by MS porting their stuff over.
 
Vulkan for Linux! Anyone?

h61B99DF0
 
You have good points. But you yourself say that you don't use Windows 10. I get some people don't like Windows 10 and don't what to use it. That's fine. I do and maybe I should use exactly what you're telling to use. I'd be happy to if you could tell me how continue use all of the software and hardware I currently use. I'm perfectly open minded. I don't mind spending time to do something better. But I don't see a lot of point in losing tons of capability for a political point.

I don't care what you use, I just don't like the shilling as if Win10 is a necessity when it most certainly is not.
 
Why do you not go to the source MS sucks , they suck at their OS they suck (badly) at promoting the right features of their new DX12 API by showing the filter is something everyone can see through.

MS should make sure that there is content to play not content in a few months but right now.
 
I guess we're going to have the same discussion in a year when, say, Windows 11 pops up.
Windows 8.x is losing ground to Windows 10 while Windows 7 will drop a good bit too but will nevertheless remain relevant because of the big move from XP. At that critical time when XP was being phased out, 7 was available and thus businesses moved to it. It was costly and time consuming. We had to upgrade several devices for the modern times and we're not planning on doing it again for the sake of doing it.
It's basically illegal in my job to use an unsupported OS, so that was your motivation to move to 7 from XP right there.
It will take till 7's EOL or a few more major version number increments and directx scaremongering before they succeed. Or some other false flag like a superbug that only Windows 12 will be immune to :)
I find 10 much more comfortable to use than 8, so if I were to upgrade now it would be 10. As long as I can prove the OS isn't a data leak risk.
Things would have turned out much better for 10 If MS hadn't been hinting it will be a 'kiosk' style system with 'forced' updates and a capability to serve ads (relevant or not, people hate them and didn't expect them within the UI). Bad PR to say the least.
 
I don't care what you use, I just don't like the shilling as if Win10 is a necessity when it most certainly is not.

If one has no need or desire to use the latest hardware and software or doesn't have specific needs then most any OS will do. If one wants to use the latest and greatest in PC hardware and software then Windows 10 is the best option right now.
 
Now if only they could get DX12 to work on Windows 7, I'd upgrade to that for sure. Hell. I'd even pay money for it!

Sorry.... the windows 10 upgrade nag is getting the better of my patience. :p
 
If one has no need or desire to use the latest hardware and software or doesn't have specific needs then most any OS will do. If one wants to use the latest and greatest in PC hardware and software then Windows 10 is the best option right now.

The only thing Win10 has over Win8.1 is DX12, and there are no games I want to buy using DX12. I'm freezing both my hardware and software purchases as is because I don't need no steenkin' new shinies. I've already got over a couple of TB of games to play around with. Hell. I've still got 1.48GB of old Dos games installed.
 
If one has no need or desire to use the latest hardware and software or doesn't have specific needs then most any OS will do. If one wants to use the latest and greatest in PC hardware and software then Windows 10 is the best option right now.


What "specific needs" does win10 fill that win8.1 doesn't? This I want to know because the rest is an outright lie. Whether that is out of ignorance or justifying a hasty choice, I don't know.
 
^ Just LOL to the previous two comments in a thread about DX 12, the latest and great in PC tech. Add to that limited support for Skylake and none officially for next gen x86 hardware, along with the latest in 2 in 1s, things like Windows Hello, a growing number of Windows 10 only software in the Windows Store. No one said you have to like Windows 10, but calling someone a liar that's simply pointing out you're not going to get the latest and greatest in PC tech with prior versions of Windows is silly.
 
^ Just LOL to the previous two comments in a thread about DX 12, the latest and great in PC tech. Add to that limited support for Skylake and none officially for next gen x86 hardware, along with the latest in 2 in 1s, things like Windows Hello, a growing number of Windows 10 only software in the Windows Store. No one said you have to like Windows 10, but calling someone a liar that's simply pointing out you're not going to get the latest and greatest in PC tech with prior versions of Windows is silly.

Well directx was never a make or break kind of deal for casual gamers. Sure I was curious and loved to look at comparision screens between old and new directX. So if you'd be getting a nice shiny new machine now with a poweful GPU and a bunch of supported games then sure, why not get the proper fresh version of Windows with all GPU eye candy enabled. Like I said - cutting edge is good for those that want it.

I don't know if you yourself fiddled with some older computer games but it's not unusual for people to still run games in 9.0c. I have seen 10, missed 11 and 12 though.

If you may, could you please explain the link between developing apps with solely Win 10 in mind and limiting supported CPU microarchitectures when they've already commited to a 'rapid development' cycle and took it upon themselves to support multiple versions of Windows for years to come? Why not give some of those fancy novel capabilities to older but still supported Operating Systems when you're already have to stick by them.

I wish they did keep a 32 bit version around though, like with 7. I mean, my first wave of early Win7 adopters are on late Core 2 Duo CPUs and 4 Gigs of RAM, and I find 32 bit snappier on older machines.
Since apparently Windows 10 is easier on older hardware, I'd be interested to see if there'd be any benefit from getting Win10 for my Core 2 era users who game.

I'm just curious from a business standpoint. If they already have our money (whether you bought 7, 8 or upgraded to 10 - either way you're a customer) and a fairly decent chunk of the userbase - why not commit 100% to all of them? I'm not saying add features, but compatibility of 'apps' ought to be maintained... IMHO.
 
Exactly. Windows 7 is simply getting old, it's not the target for what's coming next. Perhaps Vulkan is that target but unless developers are trying to target also Android phones for AAA console/PC gaming titles I don't think Vulkan matters that much.
Why is the "age" of an OS a factor in anything? I use the one that is better.

^ Just LOL to the previous two comments in a thread about DX 12, the latest and great in PC tech. Add to that limited support for Skylake and none officially for next gen x86 hardware, along with the latest in 2 in 1s, things like Windows Hello, a growing number of Windows 10 only software in the Windows Store. No one said you have to like Windows 10, but calling someone a liar that's simply pointing out you're not going to get the latest and greatest in PC tech with prior versions of Windows is silly.
So Windows store is supposed to be a good thing for AAA gamers? No mods, no vsync off, no full screen, no SLI?

And don't for a minute believe the "we're working on it" crap. Microsoft is known for ambiguous statements. The proper order of things is get it working then release it to the public. MS nowadays does the exact opposite. Release it to the public then get it working, or not.
 
Why is the "age" of an OS a factor in anything? I use the one that is better.


So Windows store is supposed to be a good thing for AAA gamers? No mods, no vsync off, no full screen, no SLI?

And don't for a minute believe the "we're working on it" crap. Microsoft is known for ambiguous statements. The proper order of things is get it working then release it to the public. MS nowadays does the exact opposite. Release it to the public then get it working, or not.

Except there is evidence that it is already being worked on and this stuff you are saying is no longer completely accurate. So, tell me, what benefit would they have by not fixing the issues that come up?
 
Except there is evidence that it is already being worked on and this stuff you are saying is no longer completely accurate. So, tell me, what benefit would they have by not fixing the issues that come up?
You mean to say that microsoft didn't think that AAA gamers want these things? Don't be ridiculous. The issue didn't just come up. It was always there, and ms knew very well that is was there, but didn't give two fucks about it, until people started rallying in mass.
That's exactly the attitude you can expect from microsoft. They don't care about gamers, they just want to forcibly get a piece of the pie, the way they handle uwp and ms store.
 
Windows gaming exists today solely to push people towards Xbox. Everything else is marketing to get you buy into Win10. Marketing stunt, and I say stunt, because they have no intention of making the PC a better gaming platform. They need to keep it just good enough to prevent anything else not Xbox from supplanting Windows.

The Windows store is ass for non casual games.
 
Why is the "age" of an OS a factor in anything? I use the one that is better.

Better is a relative term. Windows 7 simply isn't as good for the type of devices I use as Windows 10. If 7 does the job for you, no one here is telling you not to use it.

So Windows store is supposed to be a good thing for AAA gamers? No mods, no vsync off, no full screen, no SLI?

And don't for a minute believe the "we're working on it" crap. Microsoft is known for ambiguous statements. The proper order of things is get it working then release it to the public. MS nowadays does the exact opposite. Release it to the public then get it working, or not.

There are a number of different APIs in Windows to develop applications and that's long been the case. UWA is just another one. Of course UWA distribution is tied to the Windows Store and that's the real beef here. I'm not saying UWA is the way to go for AAA games, the whole Windows Store and "metro" apps started as way to develop and distribute touch and tablet apps but now has expanded to support more traditional types of PC software, AAA games. In any case, the Windows Store is a source of ever more software and obviously some people don't like that for various reasons.
 
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