Did AM5 fix all the AM4 Memory issues?

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SpongeBob

The Contraceptive Under the Sea
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With as much value as AM4 had to offer it was one of the least enjoyable platforms I've used/tweaked in the last 20 years. Not the worst!!! Let me be clear far from the worst but I have never had a system with so many memory quirks. Even buying high end ram could be a unstable cause it was dual sided or the memory controller from AMD sucked etc etc. Too many hours trying to get hardware to work where as in the past I never once experienced these kinds of memory issues with AMD or Intel.

I'm kind of at a crossroads with updating another piece of hardware in my home. Do I build an Intel system or go AM5... I definitely have spare DDR4 kicking around and I'd bet dollars to donuts an Intel system would actually work without even looking at the QVL. AM5 I dunno....... You guys tell me? I rather not build on a dead platform however I also don't want to deal with playing months of ram roulette.

Has AMD Expo help with compatibility?

Thanks
 
In my limited experience, 3xxxx or above AM4 cpu seem to had fixed the common memory issue, it was safe to assume a standard dual memory kit would do 3600 without problem. My 3900x system was much better than my 2600x (did not reach 3200 well, had to go with 3000 iirc) one in that regard and I think it was a general consensus.

AM5 long boot and others issues on MSI and others boards when you overclock the ram seem to be really common even with winter 2023 bios, if it is a big deal I would at least look at the specific motherboard before buying and not go with say MSI right now.
 
it can still be picky, stick to the qvl.
ps: this isnt an amd only issue....
 
SpongeBob said:
With as much value as AM4 had to offer it was one of the least enjoyable platforms I've used/tweaked in the last 20 years. Not the worst!!! Let me be clear far from the worst but I have never had a system with so many memory quirks. Even buying high end ram could be a unstable cause it was dual sided or the memory controller from AMD sucked etc etc. Too many hours trying to get hardware to work where as in the past I never once experienced these kinds of memory issues with AMD or Intel.

I'm kind of at a crossroads with updating another piece of hardware in my home. Do I build an Intel system or go AM5... I definitely have spare DDR4 kicking around and I'd bet dollars to donuts an Intel system would actually work without even looking at the QVL. AM5 I dunno....... You guys tell me? I rather not build on a dead platform however I also don't want to deal with playing months of ram roulette.

Has AMD Expo help with compatibility?

Thanks
Click to expand...
I've built 5 AMD5 systems since AM5 launched. I had no issues with anything. It was a bit to learn the new ways some things work. Maybe I was lucky I dont know. AM5 has been stable for me as long as you buy a competent well supported board and some decent name brand memory. THere isn't much room to tweek or really need to anymore. PBO does it job, or in some cases you may undervolt if temps are crazy. Beyond that there is not much to tweak.

I would not invest in AM4 at all at this point, nor anything else using DDR4. But that is just me.
 
AM4 never really had memory problems. When you looked at the spec sheets for Zen, e.g. the Ryzen 1700 they clearly advertised up to 2666MT/s RAM support. If you were somewhat lucky on launch, particularly with Samsung B Die and a good IMC you could get 3200MHz stable. As Zen matured, speeds of 3600MHz were attainable frequently with Zen 2 / Zen 3 with 2 sticks. If you just expected very high frequency to work, it wouldn't. This was easily revealed from forums, tech review sites, and YouTube.

Enter AM5. With Zen 4 seems like most people can run 6000 - 6400 MT/s with UCLK:MCLK 1:1 in two sticks. When you go above that you enter UCLK:MCLK/2 which hurts performance. You then have to tweak your memory to at least 7600 - 8000 MT/s to break even. Future generations on AM5 may likely improve the memory controller and allow higher frequencies.

I'm not sure AMD Expo is necessary. I just built an AM5 system with non Expo RAM, the XMP profile loaded fine but I also tweaked all my subtimings with Buildzoid's low effort single rank guide for Hynix A/M die.

QVL is largely still irrelevant IMHO, just consider how many sticks/ranks you're running and what the CPU IMC is capable of. If you think all that matters on a platform is memory speed then go ahead and build Rocket Lake since it's IMC can run memory faster. LGA 1700 has no upgrade path (Rocket Lake is last hoorah for LGA 1700, but to be fair Intel supported 3 generations this go round which is better than before) meanwhile AM5 should see multiple future generations. You can use your own judgement looking at performance, efficiency/power consumption and build whatever rig you want.
 
LukeTbk said:
In my limited experience, 3xxxx or above AM4 cpu seem to had fixed the common memory issue, it was safe to assume a standard dual memory kit would do 3600 without problem. My 3900x system was much better than my 2600x (did not reach 3200 well, had to go with 3000 iirc) one in that regard and I think it was a general consensus.

AM5 long boot and others issues on MSI and others boards when you overclock the ram seem to be really common even with winter 2023 bios, if it is a big deal I would at least look at the specific motherboard before buying and not go with say MSI right now.
Click to expand...

Well MSI is what I am on and I can say multiple sets of ram, multiple BIOS, and both a 3800X and a 5600X ran into problems. I really don't care for MSI but I hate Gigabyte more and Asus has been slipping or cost cutting recently. Epox and Abit I miss you so much :(

Dopamin3 yeah 20 years of system building QVL has never been an issue. A real surprise when you buy premium sticks and your system can't even handle it cause the controller sucks so you have to buy econo modules that work. Really something else.
 
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SpongeBob said:
Well MSI is what I am on and I can say multiple sets of ram, multiple BIOS, and both a 3800X and a 5600X ran into problems. I really don't care for MSI but I hate Gigabyte more and Asus has been slipping or cost cutting recently. Epox and Abit I miss you so much :(

Dopamin3 yeah 20 years of system building QVL has never been an issue. A real surprise when you buy premium sticks and your system can't even handle it cause the controller sucks so you have to buy econo modules that work. Really something else.
Click to expand...

But what is premium? Because honestly sometimes even if you get ram with some crazy high mt/s or super tight timings you get what in return? It’s a very neglible difference now for AMD as long as you aren’t running potato memory.

Part of the reason this isn’t much of an issue anymore is because for the performance increase it isn’t worth it. Spend the difference on a better video card etc.

Back in the day I feel like the higher binned ram made more of a difference in gaming. Now it’s not worth the headache. Get the current standard, for AM5 currently that’s ddr5 6000, decent timings, call it a day if it’s just two sticks.

Four sticks? Do your homework on the dual rank vs single rank, and expect to loosen timings a bit.

That advice has taken me through many am5 builds. Times are changing. Sometimes the longer we are in a hobby, the harder it is to accept changes imo. That’s goes for a bunch of us who’ve been building 20+ years.
 
LukeTbk said:
Could still go into boot time and other issue in my experience
Click to expand...
There are always exceptions. And yes boot time in general has been different with DDR5. But as far as the least amount of issues I personally have had, that is what I have gone with.
 
SpongeBob said:
Well MSI is what I am on and I can say multiple sets of ram, multiple BIOS, and both a 3800X and a 5600X ran into problems. I really don't care for MSI but I hate Gigabyte more and Asus has been slipping or cost cutting recently. Epox and Abit I miss you so much :(

Dopamin3 yeah 20 years of system building QVL has never been an issue. A real surprise when you buy premium sticks and your system can't even handle it cause the controller sucks so you have to buy econo modules that work. Really something else.
Click to expand...

Did you try single channel with the 5600X? Because those 6-core chips were notorious for having a bad/flakey memory channel. One of the highest RMA rate chips in recent memory.

AM5 is pretty ironed out now, so long as you choose your board wisely and don't follow the "OMG rated for 7800++++OC" stickers on the box. Top binned 14900K's have a hard time with XMP settings that high, let alone AM5 that needs to be in 1:2 mode to get there.

That being said, my current 7600 is running 2x16GB Hynix A-die at 7200mhz CL34 with no issues at all on a cheap $120 board. My 1% lows are better than at 6200 CL30 but the averages are pretty much the same so I've left it alone the way it is.
 
I've got my spare rig built with a 5800X3D and 128GB (4 sticks) of 3600C16 RAM. It was XMP RAM that I had with my old i9 10940X system, and no issues.

I'm running 96GB (2 sticks, 4 sticks would be too much work trying to dial in proper ohm ratings and voltages) of 6400MHz (at 6000, 6400 was fine but Buildzoid 6000 timings were faster) C32 XMP RAM on my 7800X3D.

Do your homework by checking the motherboard QVL, get a decent motherboard, and don't expect the impossible. Same as with Intel.
 
I'm running some Neo 6000c30 sticks at work since release with no issues with EXPO on the strix e-f board and at home I have a set of XMP sticks I run with custom timings and 6000 speed since they're old 6400 and don't have issues there either.
 
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