Shuttle MN31N thread

SEALTeamSix

2[H]4U
Joined
Aug 15, 2003
Messages
2,434
Hi guys, this is a continuation of this thread started in the [H]ot|Deals section... we have moved from the deal to the issues surrounding the board at this point, and it was time for a change of venue.

Some fixes for issues with this mobo have already been addressed, so here they are again - "If you're running the onboard video: Before installation remove the northbridge heatsink and add a tiny bit more thermal paste....shuttle hardly puts any on. Adding a heatsink to the southbridge might help but "usually" isn't necessary if its under 50c. Disable the firewire via bios if you're not going to use it... you're system will boot faster. Disable "DRAM Auto-Precharge" via BIOS if you're system is unstable for whatever reason." Just FYI, the chipset is NF2 w/ the MCP-T southbridge.

A new issue we are having is trying to squeeze every bit of juice out of these boards as we can. This board has FSB adjustments in BIOS up to 200MHz, but so far the BIOS lacks VCore, VMem, and VChipset adjustments. Furthermore, the BIOS lacks options to edit the CPU's multiplier or lock the PCI bus (though it might be locked by default - this hasn't been investigated yet.) So far, we have found pin modding to be an inconvenient yet effective method of altering these values. I am trying to modify the BIOS to include these features, and I have also contacted Shuttle and am waiting to hear back from them - maybe they'll be nice, pony up a modded BIOS and save us the work.

Any of you with experience modifying BIOSes, particularly Award 6.0 BIOSes, please feel free to give us any help you can. So far, this modified BIOS has the default settings tuned for performance and the DRM-Precharge turned off for stability reasons.

-SEAL
 
A free bump to Seal for trying to garner interest and support in this uncommonly feature-filled Matx mobo. While it is based on the now aging Nforce2 chipset, it's still a great choice for a budget & especially an HTPC setup. Thanks to its Matx design and MCP-T southbridge HTPC builders can look forward to: Dual VGA, Firewire, latent but fully functioning Soundstorm (Nvidia Apu), USB2.0 and Lan.

The one major multimedia caveat appears to be the missing SPDIF/Optical bracket, an item which would unleash the on-the-fly Dolby Digital encoding capability (full fledged Soundstorm); a major plus for those looking for audio bliss in their HTPC's. If anyone is interested in fully utilizing the MN31N's latent audio capability, i've compiled a list of possible Optical/spdif brackets in the original thread that Seal refers to above.

A few good MN31N resources are: enforcersHQ & the formerly known as AMDMB forums. A search for "MN31N" will yield much useful information. Forum user 'Szandor' is particularly knowledgeable with this mobo (he's in both forums, maybe here too?)

Anyone with pertinent info/ideas/links is highly encouraged to chime in.
Anyone with questions is encouraged to do the same :)

Edit: http://www.acortech.com/.sc/ms/cat/1088937862274022/9/nc/CPU - AMD--AMD XP CPU
XP1700+ 1.45v mobile cpu for $42 shipped, use free ship code " PRICEWATCH "
 
Ok, after many hours of trouble shooting I figured out my problem. I learned a lesson, if you don't know what you are disabling in bios, dont touch it despite what your friend says....

Using pinmod, original bios (seals didnt flash right) and I am now running @ 2.4ghz 200fsb w/ 1.6vcore

about to run Prime95 soon or later tonight when i go to bed.

Wish me luck
 
ToyYoda03 said:
seals didnt flash right

Hmm... I'll look into that. Did it give an error message, or something that I could use to troubleshoot? Good luck with your stability testing - if it Prime's without errors, try upping that multi another notch!

-SEAL
 
SEALTeamSix said:
Hmm... I'll look into that. Did it give an error message, or something that I could use to troubleshoot? Good luck with your stability testing - if it Prime's without errors, try upping that multi another notch!

-SEAL

The program crashed during flash, so I couldnt try it.

2.4 ghz was stable in windows, not stable in Prime so its clocked down. I'll try 1.65vcore and see if that helps later. Im kinda pooped, been working mostly on this all day and my fingers show all the little cuts I received from this case. It really blows taking off the heatsink on and off everytime I want to change the multiplier.

I think I am done for today w/ hardware, now Im going to install all my software stuff again.

here are some pics

http://www.iupload.net/062004/IMG_1407.jpg
http://www.iupload.net/062004/IMG_1409.jpg
http://www.iupload.net/062004/IMG_1411.jpg
http://www.iupload.net/062004/IMG_1412.jpg
http://www.iupload.net/062004/IMG_1414.jpg
http://www.iupload.net/062004/IMG_1415.jpg
 
I do have to admit that's one of the nicest case & psu combo i've seen for that silly low price. The silver doesn't bother me since my equipment has a hodgepodge of colors already.

If i'm not mistaken ToyYoda, you might have the highest oc'd shuttle/cpu combo i've ever seen. I'd be willing to bet that some extra voltage would make 2.4ghz stable, but keep in mind that better circulation may be needed afterward. An easy way to do it would be to make all your fans intake air and get one of those pci slot blowers to exhaust. They're rated 24db/42cfm and they sure seem like it too.

I still wonder what it was that was giving you problems...dma sequence? that can be the devil sometimes.

Keep us posted.
 
Bump...

I have a 1700+ in one of these boards and it has some potential :D


Does that bios have the multi and stuff operational. Maybe the bios from the XPC board would work (same chipset and stufff)
 
SJetski71 said:
I do have to admit that's one of the nicest case & psu combo i've seen for that silly low price. The silver doesn't bother me since my equipment has a hodgepodge of colors already.

If i'm not mistaken ToyYoda, you might have the highest oc'd shuttle/cpu combo i've ever seen. I'd be willing to bet that some extra voltage would make 2.4ghz stable, but keep in mind that better circulation may be needed afterward. An easy way to do it would be to make all your fans intake air and get one of those pci slot blowers to exhaust. They're rated 24db/42cfm and they sure seem like it too.

I still wonder what it was that was giving you problems...dma sequence? that can be the devil sometimes.

Keep us posted.

Thanks :)

There are a few problems I am trying to solve still. I plan to bump up the voltage today and try again. I am completely out of PCI slots so no room for a fan. SATA controller, WiFi, and TV tuner are all in there. I am kind of worried that when I upgrade to a x800 that I will run into cooling problems so I plan to make a blowhole soon.
Another problem is the PSU. Its 200w and I ran out of power cords to even complete my system, it came with 3 but the front lcd takes one which blows so I picked up a splitter too today along with a new 160gb maxtor that I got for 80 bucks. Im sure that in its current state, there is enough power but I dont think there will be when I upgrade my videocard. I saw a enermax 275watt microatx psu for 50 bucks on newegg, I will probably get that next paycheck.

So far I am quite impressed with this system compared to my old. Things are plenty fast for me, loading wise. Havent tested any games yet. One thing I did notice was the sound, imo its 10x better than my old rig.

How is everyone elses setup going so far?
 
TekieB said:
I have a 1700+ in one of these boards and it has some potential :D

Does that bios have the multi and stuff operational. Maybe the bios from the XPC board would work (same chipset and stufff)
I have an older 1700+ tbred B (0302 dut3c) on my newer MN31N and it's perfectly stable @ 11 x 180fsb. Thats at default multi & voltage since i haven't tried any of the pin mods linked above. I really wonder if that XPC bios would work...hmm am i daring enough.

ToyYoda03 said:
Thanks :)

There are a few problems I am trying to solve still. I plan to bump up the voltage today and try again. I am completely out of PCI slots so no room for a fan. SATA controller, WiFi, and TV tuner are all in there. I am kind of worried that when I upgrade to a x800 that I will run into cooling problems so I plan to make a blowhole soon.
Another problem is the PSU. Its 200w and I ran out of power cords to even complete my system, it came with 3 but the front lcd takes one which blows so I picked up a splitter too today along with a new 160gb maxtor that I got for 80 bucks. Im sure that in its current state, there is enough power but I dont think there will be when I upgrade my videocard. I saw a enermax 275watt microatx psu for 50 bucks on newegg, I will probably get that next paycheck.

So far I am quite impressed with this system compared to my old. Things are plenty fast for me, loading wise. Havent tested any games yet. One thing I did notice was the sound, imo its 10x better than my old rig.

How is everyone elses setup going so far?
A few more ideas: I cut out the fan grills on my rig#2's case with noticeable improvement. The sound is a lot better than the standard ALC600 too, no comparison really. Going to begin tweaking and oc'ing my second mobo later today. I have two nice dlt3c 1.5v tbreds waiting for their turn at bat :)

BTW Seal, The specific bios that ToyYoda tried didn't work for me either, same symptoms and everything. I didn't catch any tell-tale error messages unfortunatly
 
SJetski71 said:
I really wonder if that XPC bios would work...hmm am i daring enough.
...
BTW Seal, The specific bios that ToyYoda tried didn't work for me either, same symptoms and everything. I didn't catch any tell-tale error messages unfortunatly

Sorry that it isn't working... have you guys tried pressing ALT-F2 or something like that at boot-up to get into the AWD-Flash utility and then loading the BIOS in from a floppy? I don't know if you guys have tried that or not, but it always seemed like the easiest way to do it for me on other boards. Also, could you link to the XPC bios? I'd like to take a gander at it... I'm still waiting to hear back from Shuttle. I've emailed and called a tech named Derek Chan who responded to my original request, but unfortunately it's the weekend and I can't reach him (or anyone at Shuttle, at this point) because it's closed till tomorrow. If these adjustments are indeed possible in BIOS, I will make it so by any means necessary.

-SEAL
 
SEALTeamSix said:
Sorry that it isn't working... have you guys tried pressing ALT-F2 or something like that at boot-up to get into the AWD-Flash utility and then loading the BIOS in from a floppy? I don't know if you guys have tried that or not, but it always seemed like the easiest way to do it for me on other boards. Also, could you link to the XPC bios? I'd like to take a gander at it... I'm still waiting to hear back from Shuttle. I've emailed and called a tech named Derek Chan who responded to my original request, but unfortunately it's the weekend and I can't reach him (or anyone at Shuttle, at this point) because it's closed till tomorrow. If these adjustments are indeed possible in BIOS, I will make it so by any means necessary.

-SEAL

Argh, I just took out my floppy drive.

Ok I increased the voltage to 1.65 and took a gamble and shut my case. I want to see how hot it gets in there. Then I went into bios and turned up the FSB back to 200 and once again I was at 2.4ghz. It didnt even load windows before the power went off. I think I am maxing out my PSU, which really blows.
 
hellomynameis said:
what slot with 2 sticks do i need to have in for dual channel?
Answered your question in your other post but i'm glad you're posting here.

The answer is: slots 1 & 3 or slots 1 & 2 only.
 
anyone else have trouble with the placement of the power connector? I stuck this board (which works wonderfully by the way) in an old micro atx case and the 5 1/4 drives sit right next to the power connector. I actually had to pull my liteon from my main system to stick in here because it was about an inch shorter than all my other drives :p

sposh
 
I was wondering if I can drop a mobile XP in this board - from what I've read it's physically possible - but the bios will have a whole host of issues booting it properly. Due to that - opinions as to which AXP to slot into this puppy?
 
[H]Rabbit said:
I was wondering if I can drop a mobile XP in this board - from what I've read it's physically possible - but the bios will have a whole host of issues booting it properly. Due to that - opinions as to which AXP to slot into this puppy?
Read the thread originator here for very detailed answer to your question:
http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=766632

In short the answer is yes, with a very easy pin mod to lock down the multiplier. Otherwise the multi may change itself upon every reboot. There are those who say there are "non-mod" bios workarounds (i think oc'ing fsb can lock in a multi?). While most others maintain that an easy pin mod is necessary to lock the multi down.

The easiest choice would be to buy a standard Barton 2500+. It has a nice higher 166fsb/ddr333 default and you can always oc it through FSB increments. The cpu being locked makes no difference since the mobo doesn't allow user-adjustable mulitpliers anyway (only fsb oc). The Barton xp2800 is only a few dollars more on pricewatch.
 
Update, my computer shuts off now when I adjust the FSB to 166. Then a red light comes on, which is the CPU overtemp LED. In the manual it says that the computer will shut off when temps reach over 85c. Now I also have a sensor on this thing that I can read on my front display. It displays 37c idle and ruffly 43c full load. Even the built in cpu temp says the same thing!

I dont understand it, I installed windows @ 200fsb x 12 =2.4ghz!

Only thing I can think off is I somehow damaged something doing the pinmod.

Argh....
 
update again

I rewired and fixed the problem. Prime95 freezes very soon @ 200fsb but when I knock it down its fine. I doubt I can completly max that part out. I am currently @ 185fsb around 2,150ghz or something like that :p on default core voltage. I am still pretty new at this but I have learned a great deal and I have had some great help on the [H]. Thanks :)
 
NF2 mobos and XP cpus can be both be fussy in their own right. Have you straight up tried the mobile cpu, minus the pin mods?

Do you own a non-mobile barton or tbred cpu to swap and test? your mobo may not be agreeing with your mobile cpu or the pin mod you did. This is a characteristic fussiness thats unfortunately too common with nf2 mobos.
The temp sensor in the socket might be bent too far forward, lean it back about 1mm and test it. Disable any thermal protection settings in the bios and make sure you're always replacing the thermal paste.
Try flashing the bios with a newer one, or revert to a slightly older one. Another weakpoint with NF2 mobos.

I could go on and on but i'll need more info to work with.

Edit: ahh, i didn't notice the great update till now, good work
 
[H]Rabbit said:
I was wondering if I can drop a mobile XP in this board - from what I've read it's physically possible - but the bios will have a whole host of issues booting it properly. Due to that - opinions as to which AXP to slot into this puppy?

While I haven't tried it myself, the fact that you CAN put mobile XP's in every other NForce2-chipset motherboard that I've heard of suggests to me that one would probably work in this case too. Also, there are posts in In my journeys of trying to unlock the voltage adjustments on the board, a Shuttle tech support guy told me that this board doesn't officially support XP mobiles. However, as SJet said, you can use them if you lock the multi using a pin-mod.

ToyYoda03 said:
How's the BIOS coming?

I finally got ahold of Derek Chan today, but he proved to be dumb (he said that the NForce 2 chipset doesn't support voltage adjustment (which it of course does - otherwise how would it adjust the voltage to CPU's different voltage ratings?), and that only the NForce 2 Ultra did. As soon as he said that, I was like "that's nice... now can I talk to the next guy higher up?" so I talked another guy, and eventually to the head tech support guy at the USA devision and he said that nobody in the US from Shuttle is knowledgeable enough to help me with the BIOS, so I am going to call Shuttle Tiawan tomorrow... however, he cautioned me that the BIOS is liscenced and that most likely they wouldn't be able to help me. Also, I don't speak Tiawanese, so I might have some trouble talking to the BIOS engineers from Tiawan! But, I'll give it a try...

As for the XPC BIOS working, I was told it wouldn't work because there are different components on the 2 boards, but I'm going to compare the two tomorrow using an editor and see if there is a way to incorporate the two. As I said earlier, BIOSes are modular, so maybe I can pull one module from one and add it to another... so I'm still working on it, but so far no luck...

-SEAL
 
SJetski71 said:
Read the thread originator here for very detailed answer to your question:
http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=766632

The easiest choice would be to buy a standard Barton 2500+. It has a nice higher 166fsb/ddr333 default and you can always oc it through FSB increments. The cpu being locked makes no difference since the mobo doesn't allow user-adjustable mulitpliers anyway (only fsb oc). The Barton xp2800 is only a few dollars more on pricewatch.

Yep... but the Mobile XP would run cooler (35W @ stock), and has more headroom for overclocking. The normal 2500+ will probably net you ~2.4GHz, and the Mobiles with a pin-mod will normally get you to 2.4-2.7GHz. And, as you said, the pin-mod is pretty easy ;).

-SEAL
 
I'm not looking to OC this box- I plan on slapping a two HD's and a Hauppage card into it, and turning it into a media server/TIVO

So given that there's no overclocking intended - Barton 2500+ looks to be the way I'll go, the XPM seems to be a little too iffy for me ATM.

Anyone had problems with corsair value select in this board? I'm looking at 2x256 or 2x512.

And on the off chance someone has - Have any of you used WinServer 2K3 with one of these? Any issues?

Finally - what cases are you fine folks running with these?
 
[H]Rabbit said:
Anyone had problems with corsair value select in this board? I'm looking at 2x256 or 2x512.
I am running the most generic pc2100 junk I could get for free in mine and its stable. Be sure to get the bios update from the shuttle website. My board was unstable in linux until I got that update.

[H]Rabbit said:
Finally - what cases are you fine folks running with these?
I am using antec aria, I put this sucker together in like 20min, fastest I have ever build a machine, fits like a glove and the jumpers match the cable pinouts! woot no rewiring for once!
 
[H]Rabbit said:
Finally - what cases are you fine folks running with these?

Heres mine, had some problems with it but I figured it out. Im going to need a bigger psu once I upgrade to x800


IMG_1414.jpg
 
Originally posted by vxspiritxv
My board was unstable in linux until I got that update.

I've been thinking about a Linux box - MythTV makes it sound better and better - without Hijacking this into a "How do I Install linux" discussion, are there any gotchas to using the Integrated sound/Video in Linux (or any Linux gotchas really) - and what distro did you use?
 
[H]Rabbit said:
I've been thinking about a Linux box - MythTV makes it sound better and better - without Hijacking this into a "How do I Install linux" discussion, are there any gotchas to using the Integrated sound/Video in Linux (or any Linux gotchas really) - and what distro did you use?
Read post #11 here , that post/thread is located in our HTPC forum btw

Edit: Update on my second mobo. Working and stable so far at stock speed settings. Haven't had enough time to test oc'ing though but i'm glad it works fine for now. It turns out that i may not have a use for this second mobo (or a person to sell a rig to). I don't want it to collect dust either. I may decide to ebay it for a small profit or sell it to a fellow [H] for $35+ shipping, i might decide to combine it with a 1700+ tbred 'B' DLT3C 1.5v for a silly low combo price. Drop me a PM if anyone wants dibs on it...but i still have yet to decide what i'll do with it :confused: (I'm only accepting "dibs" so plz give me a few days to decide)
 
[H]Rabbit said:
I've been thinking about a Linux box - MythTV makes it sound better and better - without Hijacking this into a "How do I Install linux" discussion, are there any gotchas to using the Integrated sound/Video in Linux (or any Linux gotchas really) - and what distro did you use?

I use gentoo, from a stage1, complete compile.
There is a hard learning curve to linux, but ill give a few hints to your pm box to not 'crap' this thread up with linux gibberish. There really isn't any gotchas with this board. Nforce2 has been out for some time now (accually same drivers from nforce1) they got most of the bugs out.

Ohh can't forget to post a pic of linux running here.
 
i think im giving up on the pinmod for now. Too much of a pain in my ass
 
I am having a very wierd problem. I matched a 2500+ and the MN31n. It randomly seems to detect the processor speed. Sometimes its 1100 MHz, sometimes 1900, and sometimes it does select 2500+.

I checked with CPU-Z and whatever speed it selects is what it is running. I tried the latest BIOS and the modified BIOS that was earlier in this thread. This is straight up - no pin mods or anything wierd.

Any suggestions?

-Brett
 
Bean Dip said:
I am having a very wierd problem. I matched a 2500+ and the MN31n. It randomly seems to detect the processor speed. Sometimes its 1100 MHz, sometimes 1900, and sometimes it does select 2500+.

I checked with CPU-Z and whatever speed it selects is what it is running. I tried the latest BIOS and the modified BIOS that was earlier in this thread. This is straight up - no pin mods or anything wierd.

Any suggestions?

-Brett

is it mobile?
 
It's an Athlon XP 2500+ "Barton".

Newegg link

I was wrong in my previous post. It's not the MHz that it misidentifies, but the chip model.

It randomly detects it as an Athlon 1100, Athlon 1900 or Athlon 2500+

To make this even stranger the 1100 did not show up until after I changed the HSF to a Zalman 7000 Alcu. Before the HSF was a CoolerMaster that sounded like I had a tornado in my office. When the Coolermaster was on it would most of the time detect it as a 1900 and occasionally get it right at 2500+.

I'm baffled by this one.
 
Bean Dip said:
It's an Athlon XP 2500+ "Barton".

Newegg link

I was wrong in my previous post. It's not the MHz that it misidentifies, but the chip model.

It randomly detects it as an Athlon 1100, Athlon 1900 or Athlon 2500+

To make this even stranger the 1100 did not show up until after I changed the HSF to a Zalman 7000 Alcu. Before the HSF was a CoolerMaster that sounded like I had a tornado in my office. When the Coolermaster was on it would most of the time detect it as a 1900 and occasionally get it right at 2500+.

I'm baffled by this one.

sounds like you have an unlocked chip and this mobo doesnt support changing multipliers

Seal is working on a bios to fix it, but until then you have 2 options. Either put up with it, or use a pinmod (on the first page, first post) I have used the pinmod, its not too difficult to do.

Having an unlocked chip is good :)
 
Mine does that too every once and awhile on my unlocked 1700, but it says something on the post screen about memory timings in safe mode?? and bumps the fsb down to 133 or 100
 
OK here is what I have figured out. The MN31N selects the processor based on the memory speed. So thus

100 MHz FSB x 11 = 1100
133 MHz FSB x 11 = 1463 - which is really more an Athlon XP 1700 then a 1900 ??
166 MHz FSB x 11 = 1826 - Athlon XP 2500+

Something was happening that caused the BIOS to change the memory settings. Since I made the change in the BIOS memory setting it has consistantly booted 2500+ (and is sooo much faster).
 
Bean Dip said:
OK here is what I have figured out. The MN31N selects the processor based on the memory speed. So thus

100 MHz FSB x 11 = 1100
133 MHz FSB x 11 = 1463 - which is really more an Athlon XP 1700 then a 1900 ??
166 MHz FSB x 11 = 1826 - Athlon XP 2500+

Something was happening that caused the BIOS to change the memory settings. Since I made the change in the BIOS memory setting it has consistantly booted 2500+ (and is sooo much faster).

The 1700 only has 256k l2 chache
 
Bean Dip said:
OK here is what I have figured out. The MN31N selects the processor based on the memory speed. So thus

100 MHz FSB x 11 = 1100
133 MHz FSB x 11 = 1463 - which is really more an Athlon XP 1700 then a 1900 ??
166 MHz FSB x 11 = 1826 - Athlon XP 2500+

Something was happening that caused the BIOS to change the memory settings. Since I made the change in the BIOS memory setting it has consistantly booted 2500+ (and is sooo much faster).
Ahh, i took for granted that people knew to manually adjust these settings.

Get into yer bios people! Don't just roll over and let the mobo do the work for you. The initial boot is always at 100fsb, it usually straightens itself out but manually adjusting all fsb parameters can prevent these headaches. Run your ram n'synch with your processor's fsb for greater speed and stability (on socket A chipsets anyway).
 
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