The Government Says It Will Use Smart Home Devices For Spying

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James Clapper, the US Director of National Intelligence, told a Senate panel yesterday that government agencies might use smart household devices to increase their surveillance capabilities. :eek:

“In the future, intelligence services might use the [internet of things] for identification, surveillance, monitoring, location tracking, and targeting for recruitment, or to gain access to networks or user credentials,” Clapper told a Senate panel as part of his annual “assessment of threats” against the US.
 
I would like to say I'm shocked, but I'm not... What ever happened to due process and presumption of innocence?
 
Surprise! The government gives absolutely zero fucks about anyone's privacy and don't even attempt to hide it anymore.
 
Are you really that surprised?

Im by no means a tin foil hat wearing sceptic, but I put a piece of electrical tape over the built in webcam on my laptop and refuse to purchase a smart TV.
Im sure snooping over cellphone cameras and mics is a more more popular option.
 
Taldren said:
So ... can we move the book 1984 out of fiction yet?
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From the perspective of spying, it was never really so much fiction to begin with. We often like to think of ourselves as the first generation to have to deal with issues, but spying has long been an issue in human history. Technology makes it easier and scarier.
 
Make sure you wave and say hello to them on that "smart" tv camera and mic you paid extra for and thought was so cool to have one.
 
All those things the US scared it's citizens with about the commies now in action today. Gotta love that freedom. Pretty amazing how corrupt a system is that the government needs to sink to this.
 
So long as it helps in the war on terror, I'm all for it. It's Eastasia we're fighting, right? We've already been at war with Eastasia?
 
When I used to bartend I had a customer who said he covered his television at night so 'they' could not watch him. He doesn't seem so crazy now.
 
dr_drift said:
So long as it helps in the war on terror, I'm all for it. It's Eastasia we're fighting, right? We've already been at war with Eastasia?
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Reminds me of this....

Vizzini said:
You fell victim to one of the classic blunders - The most famous of which is "never get involved in a land war in Asia" - but only slightly less well-known is this: "Never go in against a Sicilian when death is on the line"! Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha! Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha! Ha ha ha...
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Trying to control the masses is a futile project. They will either collapse into worthless slaves that are unmotivated to serve you, or they rise up against you if they become desperate enough.

I am not an anarchist by any means. But the government reaches too far into my daily life for my comfort.
 
This is why i love slow internet.

Just imagine they trying to watch my thru my ridiculous fast 2mb upload.
 
DouglasteR said:
This is why i love slow internet.

Just imagine they trying to watch my thru my ridiculous fast 2mb upload.
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used to webcam chat on 56k modem, and compression is much better now as well. Just sayin :p
 
Taldren said:
So ... can we move the book 1984 out of fiction yet?
Click to expand...

We have been living in 1984 for a long time, longer than the internet.

Proxy wars with nations most people have never heard of (until the war) and will never visit.

3 major global powers, often pit against each other in the media, but again most people will never visit them.

Honey pots to attract dissidents to specific areas/cultures (A great example is Rage Against the Machine, modern is 4chan).

Media ramming biased messages down citizens throats daily, creating an us vs them dynamic, even locally.

The internet has just made it easier to track and identify people, that is all.
 
Google owns Nest and Dropcam.
Google provides 3 letter agencies with access to data "at network speed"
This is no surprise.
I never trust Google.
 
Ordeith said:
Google owns Nest and Dropcam.
Google provides 3 letter agencies with access to data "at network speed"
This is no surprise.
I never trust Google.
Click to expand...

So you think your safer staying away from google products?

Personally with the limited knowledge I have of the 'spy' industry, I do not believe you are.
 
Ordeith said:
Everyone is, really.

https://wikileaks.org/google-is-not-what-it-seems/
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I think you don't understand.

Say I use google products (I happen to use Chrome on my office PC) I am now in group A. Group A the government can easily access my data if requested. However group A is pretty big, containing LOTS of data and people. So unless I do something that specifically makes me a target, my data will likely be lost in the mass.

You use Firefox (I use on my home PC) You are now in Group B. The government knows you use Firefox, and that they have to work a little harder to get that data. More effort and focus will be put on obtaining that information than group A as naturally, they will assume that those wanting to hide activities will use progressively more aggressive means.

Now, as you use more and more niche products, you make a smaller and smaller pool that you can be singled out it. Intelligence agencies love this, they also know that you are paying attention, so they take steps to funnel people into groups. Using those groups to separate likely suspects for monitoring.

Its intelligence 101.
 
Steve said:
James Clapper, the US Director of National Intelligence, told a Senate panel yesterday that government agencies might use smart household devices to increase their surveillance capabilities. :eek:
Click to expand...

Yeah this is pretty clear just from how the government is getting so pouty when it comes to encryption on phones. They approach the issue acting like they are entitled to have access to your private data.

Pretty much, from their perspective, if ANY data is stored or saved anywhere, then they should have access to it and be able to use it for their purposes.
 
But Group A has a nice profile that is automated and used for manipulation by the world's largest advertising company, and one of the largest lobbyists in the US with much government entanglement. Google's People Analytics experiments won't stay internal to the company for long.

I refuse to participate.
 
Aireoth said:
I think you don't understand.

Say I use google products (I happen to use Chrome on my office PC) I am now in group A. Group A the government can easily access my data if requested. However group A is pretty big, containing LOTS of data and people. So unless I do something that specifically makes me a target, my data will likely be lost in the mass.

You use Firefox (I use on my home PC) You are now in Group B. The government knows you use Firefox, and that they have to work a little harder to get that data. More effort and focus will be put on obtaining that information than group A as naturally, they will assume that those wanting to hide activities will use progressively more aggressive means.

Now, as you use more and more niche products, you make a smaller and smaller pool that you can be singled out it. Intelligence agencies love this, they also know that you are paying attention, so they take steps to funnel people into groups. Using those groups to separate likely suspects for monitoring.

Its intelligence 101.
Click to expand...

So, say you are one of the "likely suspects for monitoring". What kind of advertisements does Google target you with? :D
 
Ordeith said:
But Group A has a nice profile that is automated and used for manipulation by the world's largest advertising company, and one of the largest lobbyists in the US with much government entanglement. Google's People Analytics experiments won't stay internal to the company for long.

I refuse to participate.
Click to expand...

But this is about government spying, oversight, privacy, etc. Not media and advertising, demographics and analytics. One is for profit, the other is government, and while they do overlap, it is overblown by wikileaks and those that don't understand internal mechanics and workings of a for profit corporation.

All I'm saying is that Group A is so large as to be homogeneous, to be singled out by an agency for XYZ activity in group A, you'd need to be asking for it. Otherwise your lost in the massive amount of data, eventually just becoming a statistic.

As a result, I do not believe that you, or anyone else is safer for using one product over another. There are ways to make yourself more secure, but firefox/chrome/ie will make little to no difference in your personal privacy and security.

The more you secure yourself, the larger a target you make yourself.
 
ShagnWagn said:
So, say you are one of the "likely suspects for monitoring". What kind of advertisements does Google target you with? :D
Click to expand...

I honestly haven't noticed, facebook was the worst but I don't use that anymore. Mostly google products just kinda streamline me into tech and science articles, which is fine by me.
 
Darunion said:
Aluminum foil bulk packs with a subscription discount
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No need for that, my safety at this time is in numbers, 360 million of them in the US, 33 million in Canada, and the 3,304,657,950 internet users world wide. I am literally just another data point on a chart at this time, just like all of us.
 
In other news, the IoT is horribly secured.

Lock it down, and this may become less of an issue (assuming no backdooring is allowed).
 
Just like to point out that his statement might be taken out of context:

“In the future, intelligence services might use the [internet of things] for identification, surveillance, monitoring, location tracking, and targeting for recruitment, or to gain access to networks or user credentials,” Clapper told a Senate panel as part of his annual “assessment of threats” against the US.
Click to expand...

Key portions in bold .. He's not talking about the US Government (although it can be assumed the NSA would do this), he's talking about foreign entities.
 
That's it. Someone needs to fire this idiot.

We need to get some real common sense people into office so we can ban all dragnet surveillance once and for all.

If its not in public, a warrant should have to be signed by a judge individually for every single person under suspicion, whether they are us nationals or not.

The argument that defense from terrorism and crime requires a surveillance state is complete bull and needs to end immediately! If we have to choose between a possibility of death and giving up our freedoms, we should choose the possibility of death every time!

New Hampshire, can I hear a "HELL YEAH"?
 
Aireoth said:
No need for that, my safety at this time is in numbers, 360 million of them in the US, 33 million in Canada, and the 3,304,657,950 internet users world wide. I am literally just another data point on a chart at this time, just like all of us.
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Voice to text, video interpretation and automated keyword searches...
 
Yea but a smartphone is almost a necessity these days. Smart TV, not so much. That said, what else is there? I can't think of anything else. Unless Laptops and Computers are included but then it's almost a moot point, isn't it?
 
pothb said:
Yea but a smartphone is almost a necessity these days. Smart TV, not so much. That said, what else is there? I can't think of anything else. Unless Laptops and Computers are included but then it's almost a moot point, isn't it?
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I can think of a few more

- Wifi thermostats (like the popular Nest products)
- Home alarm systems
- Wifi controlled lightbulbs. (not a joke)
- Cable boxes
- IP Phone boxes (like vonage)

There are probably lots more that are not immediately coming to mind.

I think they sell smart refrigerators too.

Pretty soon every product you buy will come with an app to control it remotely, and you bet they won't be controlling directly through your firewall and router, but rather though a "cloud based" service that aggregates and mines your data, just like the Nest thermostat does.

Of course it's under the guise of making it easily web controllable, but there are other benefits to the manufacturer.
 
Armenius said:
I would like to say I'm shocked, but I'm not... What ever happened to due process and presumption of innocence?
Click to expand...

What ever happened to knowing what you are talking about before you open your mouth and remove all doubt.

The NSA is a DoD Military Intelligence Organization. Their targets are typically legitimate foreign targets who reside in other countries, their government, militaries, etc.

Due Process and Presumption of Innocents are legal terms related to law enforcement, not intelligence operations directed at foreign targets.

Until you come to grips with this difference you will continue to fail to understand these issues and you will continue to have a false concept of what is involved.
 
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