Electric Vehicle Sales Fall Far Short Of White House Goal

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Apparently billions in subsidies haven't done much to help electric vehicle sales to hit the goal of one million sold set by the White House back in 2008. What would it take to get you to buy an electric vehicle?

Back in 2008, with gas prices averaging nearly $4 a gallon, President Barack Obama set a goal of getting one million plug-in electric vehicles on the roads by 2015. Since then, his administration has backed billions of dollars in EV subsidies for consumers and the industry. Yet today – with gas prices near $2 a gallon - only about 400,000 electric cars have been sold. Last year, sales fell 6 percent over the previous year, to about 115,000, despite the industry offering about 30 plug-in models, often at deep discounts.
 
I love what I've read about the Tesla Model S, just can't afford one. Every other EV is an impractical toy from what I've seen.

If other companies would license access to the Tesla supercharger network (and if Elon Musk would allow them to) we might gain some traction in this arena.
 
Gee, I don't know. Maybe it has to do with the crappy range of electric cars (Not gas/electric hybrids), how expensive they are and of course the low gas prices that we currently have.
 
Well duh, I doubt anyone with a shed of logic would be surprised. As a mass market vehicle they aren't even slightly competitive with ic. I have no objection to buying one IF it is equivalent to my ic car. What would it take to be there?

Comparable price for car size and options.
Comparable range and recharge convenience. 30 minutes isn't convenient or even acceptable.
Decent designs as most ev's are still horrible looking.

So give me an ev that looks good, costs the same, has a 350+ mile range, and charges in 5 minutes and I'm sold. Until then fuck off with your hipster mobile.
 
Until then fuck off with your hipster mobile.

So EVs a hipster mobiles until it meets your unique, specific requirements? Does it become a non-hipster mobile after that or does the next person who the vehicle is not exactly tailored for get to point out it's still a hipster mobile you're driving, because emotions? :confused:
 
The goal probably should have been 1 million charging stations. There are only two high power stations in a 100-mile radius of my home, and neither are placed convenient to any place I would go on any given day. Factor that in with the relative scarcity of larger pure electric vehicles, short ranges on electric for hybrids, and an astounding entry level price, electric vehicles are just a hard sell.

Electric vehicles now, are like the original laptops. They don't do as much as a regular car, they cost more, and their battery life is barely enough to accomplish the most basic of tasks.

Give me one with a range in the triple digits, that I don't have to shoehorn a family of four into, and doesn't make my monthly mortgage look like chump change, and maybe we'll start talking.
 
What would it take for me to buy one?

200 mile range at least
80% charge < 15 minute on 220Volt outlet
80% charge < 4 hours on 120Volt outlet
Below $35,000
 
I think I will stick with my asbestos insulation .... it is cheaper, has better insulation properties, sound absorption, fire, chemical and electrical damage resistance over fiberglass insulation ... I mean that's all that matters right?
 
I own a 2013 Chevy Volt. I bought it for $15,000. It's in perfect condition and honestly it's my favorite car I've ever owned.
 
Well duh, I doubt anyone with a shed of logic would be surprised. As a mass market vehicle they aren't even slightly competitive with ic. I have no objection to buying one IF it is equivalent to my ic car. What would it take to be there?

Comparable price for car size and options.
Comparable range and recharge convenience. 30 minutes isn't convenient or even acceptable.
Decent designs as most ev's are still horrible looking.

So give me an ev that looks good, costs the same, has a 350+ mile range, and charges in 5 minutes and I'm sold. Until then fuck off with your hipster mobile.

Someone beat me to it. Well said sir.
 
I think I will stick with my asbestos insulation .... it is cheaper, has better insulation properties, sound absorption, fire, chemical and electrical damage resistance over fiberglass insulation ... I mean that's all that matters right?

Power plants produce more then half of airborn pollution. DOH!
In fact, landscaping equipment (blowers, tractors, mowers, trimmers, etc...) produce more air NOX pollutants in total tons then cars to.
 
Power plants produce more then half of airborn pollution. DOH!
In fact, landscaping equipment (blowers, tractors, mowers, trimmers, etc...) produce more air NOX pollutants in total tons then cars to.

I have never understood this argument ... "some other machine or some other country pollutes more so I am not even going to try to reduce emissions".
 
Tesla makes a good car and is the only ev or hybrid I'd want. My wife owns a c-max plug in and it is a POS! On the freeway it only gets 30mpg...

My pumped up 2500 Cummins diesel gets 20mpg/freeway and it weight 5000lbs more!
 
I'm going to keep my ice car cause...more fun and easier for me to upgrade/maintain.
 
Yesterday as I was driving back home from work I passed a Tesla model S on the highway that had completely frozen windows. Poor bastage couldn't afford to use electricity to heat his car apparently lol.
 
So EVs a hipster mobiles until it meets your unique, specific requirements? Does it become a non-hipster mobile after that or does the next person who the vehicle is not exactly tailored for get to point out it's still a hipster mobile you're driving, because emotions? :confused:

Those aren't unique or specific requirements by any stretch. It has nothing to do with emotions and everything to do with real world use cases.
 
I own a 2013 Chevy Volt. I bought it for $15,000. It's in perfect condition and honestly it's my favorite car I've ever owned.

It's also a hybrid, not an EV. So it doesn't count. also being the favorite car you ever owned isn't saying much without knowing what you have owned, or at least what the previous favorite car was.

There are a lot of practical needs the better hybrids and most of the available EVs don't cope well with. I won't even get up to the towing something part and start with a REALLY fundamental one: rear facing child seats. It's not some outlandish luxury need. It is very common, and most small cars absolutely suck at accommodating them right now.
 
I have never understood this argument ... "some other machine or some other country pollutes more so I am not even going to try to reduce emissions".

Okay let me connect the dots for you: Switching from gas to power plants could and likely would create more problems then just staying with gas.
 
Okay let me connect the dots for you: Switching from gas to power plants could and likely would create more problems then just staying with gas.

As someone who lives in the first province/state to eliminate coal burning power plants I reject your "could" and "likely".
 
Still not enough incentive to go EV imo. Prices are too high even with the tax breaks.

Even with the discounts I can buy a high MPG car and pay for gas over the lifetime of the car and still come out cheaper than what an EV would cost upfront. Not to mention I'm guessing the batteries in an EV would have to be replace at sometime over the life of the car and that can't be cheap. Plus you still have all the other normal maintenance items.
 
Okay let me connect the dots for you: Switching from gas to power plants could and likely would create more problems then just staying with gas.

Pretty sure economy of scale says... no. Massive power plant is much more efficient than a smaller IC engine, and the engine in your car is much more efficient than the engine in your 2 stroke lawn mower.

If the reverse were true, we'd have generators on the outside of our houses and we'd be pumping in fuel.
 
Cost of living compared to salary levels is too crappy for people to take a $ loss just to be green. Our Government and economy is why we don't live greener than we do. Some people can afford it so more power to them, but I'm guessing that's not the case for the bulk of the country.
 
I own a 2013 Chevy Volt. I bought it for $15,000. It's in perfect condition and honestly it's my favorite car I've ever owned.

This phone number will come in handy when it is time to replace the batteries.

800-buy-junk. Salvage yard will haul it off for you. ;)
 
I own a 2013 Chevy Volt. I bought it for $15,000. It's in perfect condition and honestly it's my favorite car I've ever owned.

A year ago I bought a 2015 Dodge Challenger R/T and it's in perfect condition and it's without any doubt the finest car I have ever owned.

It has over 300 miles range which means I can drive across country pretty much anywhere in the US. Fuel stations are exceedingly plentiful for refueling even out here in the West.

That being said, if I lived in the right part of the country where Electric Charging stations are reasonably plentiful and if I didn't have to drive across large empty stretches of desert. If my driving was almost entirely congested city traffic with bad parking, I could see real value and convenience to some of the EVs. But as it is now, where I live, they are not even something I can consider. There are NO charging stations where I live. I live in wide open desert so there is just no possible or practical reason to consider them.

Which brings me right back to my stance on the whole subject. I think the Federal Government has been terribly irresponsible in their approach to subsidizing EV development and more importantly, actual adoption. They have been like a child that wants something and is unwilling to wait for a time when it is practical to adopt it. Instead they have thrown too much money at something that is not ready for adoption, like a spoiled child, they just want it and don't care what it costs for anyone else.

Left alone, EVs would still become the future if that is what they are destined to be. We don't need to force it to happen. We don't need to subsidize adoption, people will buy them when they become practical as an option. Business will invest when they become practical as a profitable product. The only thing the Government ever needed to do was to make sure regulation is in place to support EV roll-out as it naturally develops and ensure infrastructure is in place and or modified in order to support EV deployment and use. That's my take on it.
 
When it comes to electric cars, why not have some kind of removable gas-powered electric generator module? Most typical every-day usage scenarios would likely be well within the cars electric range, but for those trips where you are going 300+ miles you could just plop the generator module in the trunk or wherever. I've even wondered how the white-trash version of this might work, just tossing some cheap wal-mart generator in the back for a long trip. To what degree would it be able to supplement the battery life?
 
This phone number will come in handy when it is time to replace the batteries.

800-buy-junk. Salvage yard will haul it off for you. ;)

You are probably right. Just like everything else with internal batteries. It's simply too expensive to repair, so it hits the dump.
 
When it comes to electric cars, why not have some kind of removable gas-powered electric generator module? Most typical every-day usage scenarios would likely be well within the cars electric range, but for those trips where you are going 300+ miles you could just plop the generator module in the trunk or wherever. I've even wondered how the white-trash version of this might work, just tossing some cheap wal-mart generator in the back for a long trip. To what degree would it be able to supplement the battery life?

It would need to be much larger than that.
 
It would need to be much larger than that.

To do what? I'm not talking about a generator powerful enough to quickly charge the car, but rather, simply to supplement the battery over the course of a long trip (and perhaps charge it in some small way if you were to leave the generator going while stopping to eat lunch or something). Even something along the lines of being able to turn a 300 mile range into a 400 mile range would open a lot of doors.
 
When it comes to electric cars, why not have some kind of removable gas-powered electric generator module? Most typical every-day usage scenarios would likely be well within the cars electric range, but for those trips where you are going 300+ miles you could just plop the generator module in the trunk or wherever. I've even wondered how the white-trash version of this might work, just tossing some cheap wal-mart generator in the back for a long trip. To what degree would it be able to supplement the battery life?

The efficiency of those are so low, it would cost you so much more in the long run, the battery in the car is a 56KWhr battery. So a 10KW generator that can run for 5hrs at 100% load would take almost 5hrs to charge your battery with about 9gallons of gas. Also the noise level would be in the 70db range and an extra 300lbs + gas weight.

Just rough numbers but kinda to give an idea how this wouldn't be feasible,

Anyone else like to clean this up a bit, kinda curious
 
Pure electric cars are a deal breaker compared to the reliability and cost of a standard car of the same size in my opinion.

There has been much research in hybrids but I really think approached is wrong.
I think there needs to be a departure from batteries all together and instead use high capacity storage caps. Also the idea that you shut the engine off and run on the batteries is totally the wrong approach to a hybrid.
I think a small gas turbine powering a generator is the answer here.
The reason is gas turbines are extremely efficient and reliable but are only really idea for constant load applications like generators. They don't work well with constantly changing loads which is what driving a set of wheels would be.

A electric motor drives the rear axle; the storage capacitors are just a "buffer" to store the energy the generator makes. These don't wear out like batteries do. They have a very long life as long as they are not overheated.

For those of you scoffing because you are picturing a capacitor on a motherboard, look at this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GUXM1XuLUIs
 
...
Which brings me right back to my stance on the whole subject. I think the Federal Government has been terribly irresponsible in their approach to subsidizing EV development and more importantly, actual adoption. They have been like a child that wants something and is unwilling to wait for a time when it is practical to adopt it. Instead they have thrown too much money at something that is not ready for adoption, like a spoiled child, they just want it and don't care what it costs for anyone else.

Left alone, EVs would still become the future if that is what they are destined to be. We don't need to force it to happen. We don't need to subsidize adoption, people will buy them when they become practical as an option. Business will invest when they become practical as a profitable product. The only thing the Government ever needed to do was to make sure regulation is in place to support EV roll-out as it naturally develops and ensure infrastructure is in place and or modified in order to support EV deployment and use. That's my take on it.

This is spot on and applies to literally everything the government sticks their nose into.
 
Well, for gas turbine applications the M1A2 Abrams is a great place to start. I think they have the stop and go really fast part of gas turbine drive train applications workout out pretty well.

So what I am saying is they have the gas turbine technology down pretty well, just use it to power the electric generator/s and any battery/capacitor usage needed. Of course this doesn't get you away from an engine burning fossil fuels.

Perhaps we will need to wait for the subcompact nuclear fusion reactor before we actually get where we want to be.
 
If the e-Golf drove like my Rabbit does, I might be down for one. But, they are a little pricey.
 
If the e-Golf drove like my Rabbit does, I might be down for one. But, they are a little pricey.

Never mind, 83 mile range ain't gonna cut it. My work commute is about 45 miles round trip, and I don't drive like a grandmother.
 
Well duh, I doubt anyone with a shed of logic would be surprised. As a mass market vehicle they aren't even slightly competitive with ic. I have no objection to buying one IF it is equivalent to my ic car. What would it take to be there?

Comparable price for car size and options.
Comparable range and recharge convenience. 30 minutes isn't convenient or even acceptable.
Decent designs as most ev's are still horrible looking.

So give me an ev that looks good, costs the same, has a 350+ mile range, and charges in 5 minutes and I'm sold. Until then fuck off with your hipster mobile.

What would it take for me to buy one?

200 mile range at least
80% charge < 15 minute on 220Volt outlet
80% charge < 4 hours on 120Volt outlet
Below $35,000

See, this is why I say Tesla. Their supercharger stations get you to 80% in 20-30 minutes. If you aren't on a road trip, charge at home. If you are, eat lunch (dinner, breakfast) while it charges. Range is in the 300 mile area, certainly much more than 200. For the range you get, I think the time for a fast charge is reasonable. Go to their website and look at their supercharger map. They already have most interstates covered, and by the end of this year, they will be even better. For the stated criteria, the only losers are price and charge time, and as I said, I think charge time complaints are thinking too much in the driving around town model.

There are used Teslas out there that bring price down to something comparable with a higher-end sedan. Musk says he will be dropping prices when the supercharger network is built out, interesting to see what they will drop to. They also have an "economy" model in the works.
 
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