Apple Demands Court Order To Access Dead Husband's Password

H

HardOCP News

[H] News
Joined
Dec 31, 1969
Messages
0
This is pretty low, even for Apple. The 72 year old woman gave Apple a notarized death certificate, serial numbers of the devices and a copy of the husband's will and she still couldn't get the password. :(

"I thought it was ridiculous. I could get the pensions, I could get benefits, I could get all kinds of things from the federal government and the other government. But from Apple, I couldn't even get a silly password. It's nonsense," 72-year-old Peggy Bush told Go Public. Experts warn this is a growing problem, as more people die leaving important information and valuable digital property on computers and electronic devices.
 
Are people really criticizing this? We should be grateful they aren't just giving out passwords willy nilly. Death certificates are easy to forge, I'm sure.
 
OEM said:
Are people really criticizing this? We should be grateful they aren't just giving out passwords willy nilly. Death certificates are easy to forge, I'm sure.
Click to expand...

I think it's safe to say that this man is truly dead.
 
I'm pretty sure apple and most others stand by digital goods being non transferable. It's sad they're taking a stand on this, but I am glad because at the same time it's good of them to take the stand against unlocking devices.
 
That lady should get stuffed. If the husband wanted her to access the phone, she would have the password. He didn't give her the password so she should respect the wishes of the dead and never know what is on that iPad.
 
This is essentially how it should work.

To avoid rampant identity theft and to avoid liability online accounts have to remain tied to a person. If it's a minor, it's the parent. If it's an adult, it's THAT adult.

I realize that marriage causes some issues, but what is a company supposed to do? They could get the hell sued out of them for doing the obvious "right thing" and just coughing up the password for the widow. What if someone else was communicating on that account with the deceases and had a reasonable right to assume those communications died with him?

There's all sorts of issues that go beyond just HIM dying.

If we want to make a firm legal stand that ALL passwords are joint property of a married couple, then let's do that.

If they are INDIVIDUAL by default, then let's stick with that. A court order would be appropriate in that case.
 
Ocellaris said:
That lady should get stuffed. If the husband wanted her to access the phone, she would have the password. He didn't give her the password so she should respect the wishes of the dead and never know what is on that iPad.
Click to expand...

There's no phone involved, and she had access to the iPad and its contents. All she lacked was the Apple ID password, which is for the account that purchases apps.
 
evilsofa said:
There's no phone involved, and she had access to the iPad and its contents. All she lacked was the Apple ID password, which is for the account that purchases apps.
Click to expand...

My bad on the phone comment, I was thinking iPad. If she had access to the contents of the iPad why does she need the password? i don't want people checking out my devices after I die.
 
You don't even need a lawyer, any idiot can walk into District Court and file for a court ordered subpoena ... which is what Apple wants, to cover their own ass, since the PW effectively hands over property of value.

Hell, a lot of people have to go through this to get a full copy of their Credit reporting agency "FILE".
 
Ocellaris: her solitaire card game app quit working, so the family tried to reload it from the App Store. She can even just get a new Apple ID to use the iPad, but that would require repurchasing all of the apps on it.

xX_Jack_Carver_Xx: this case is in Canada, not the US. I don't know if that changes the rules for getting a court order significantly.
 
I gotta side with Apple on this one ... with my password you have access to my billing information and all the apps I have ever purchased ... I would want that to have some security attached ... the learning to take from this is not that Apple is being obnoxious but that part of your post death planning should include managing your digital footprint ... you should store your key passwords and logins in your safe deposit box or other location where you store critical information (deeds, legal documents, etc) ... try accessing a persons safe deposit box if you don't have their key and see how many legal hurdles you face before you get access ... until the law provides a clearer path on this I will give Apple the benefit of the doubt
 
Ocellaris said:
That lady should get stuffed. If the husband wanted her to access the phone, she would have the password. He didn't give her the password so she should respect the wishes of the dead and never know what is on that iPad.
Click to expand...

As evilsofa said. It's over the card game app. A lot of folks get into this kind of trouble as they don't even care who's account the device was set to initially.

and xX_Jack_Carver_Xx, this is at my province of British Columbia, Canada. We'll have to subpoena Apple Inc. in Canada. You can't file subpoena cross national borders.
 
kbrickley said:
I gotta side with Apple on this one ... with my password you have access to my billing information and all the apps I have ever purchased ... I would want that to have some security attached ... the learning to take from this is not that Apple is being obnoxious but that part of your post death planning should include managing your digital footprint ... you should store your key passwords and logins in your safe deposit box or other location where you store critical information (deeds, legal documents, etc) ... try accessing a persons safe deposit box if you don't have their key and see how many legal hurdles you face before you get access ... until the law provides a clearer path on this I will give Apple the benefit of the doubt
Click to expand...

That's something we all have to take heart. It's best not to mention any password in the will, but we can specify where the passwords are stored at.
 
Ocellaris said:
My bad on the phone comment, I was thinking iPad. If she had access to the contents of the iPad why does she need the password? i don't want people checking out my devices after I die.
Click to expand...

She needs the Apple account password so she can download apps that her and her husband have already paid for. Basically Apple wants her to make a new account and pay for all the stuff again.
 
Advil said:
This is essentially how it should work.

To avoid rampant identity theft and to avoid liability online accounts have to remain tied to a person. If it's a minor, it's the parent. If it's an adult, it's THAT adult.

I realize that marriage causes some issues, but what is a company supposed to do? They could get the hell sued out of them for doing the obvious "right thing" and just coughing up the password for the widow. What if someone else was communicating on that account with the deceases and had a reasonable right to assume those communications died with him?

There's all sorts of issues that go beyond just HIM dying.

If we want to make a firm legal stand that ALL passwords are joint property of a married couple, then let's do that.

If they are INDIVIDUAL by default, then let's stick with that. A court order would be appropriate in that case.
Click to expand...

I think that's the crux of it, the government is so behind the times on tech, they haven't even thought of issues like this to control yet. Good and bad for us I guess. I don't want them interfering, but sometimes need to. If she lives in a community state, maybe she get's half the password? LOL, then guess the other half!
 
It's not about protecting you, digital going heirloom cuts into sales. Apple is just being coy.
 
I don't blame apple. It is password protected for a reason. I can understand the "need" to get to certain stuff, but what the hell does she need his access to his apple products for? Not saying, she shouldn't have access to his things as his widow, but if he didn't tell her before, .... there are some trust issues!
 
OEM said:
Are people really criticizing this? We should be grateful they aren't just giving out passwords willy nilly. Death certificates are easy to forge, I'm sure.
Click to expand...

Holy cow, a notarized death certificate, serial numbers of the devices and a copy of the husband's will is "nilly willy?"

Aside from dragging his corpse down to the Apple store, what else do you need to prove he's dead?
 
Unless a person specifically awards a given device/service/etc to another person at the time of their death then I can completely understand Apple's position on this matter. Given they're "under attack" at the moment because of their stance on encryption and not providing easy access aka 'willy nilly' type responses to just anyone at all even in spite of having what appear to be legitimate legal documents, and even in spite of me not liking Apple in general for a wide variety of reasons, in this specific situation I don't have a problem with their stance.
 
Tiberian said:
Unless a person specifically awards a given device/service/etc to another person at the time of their death then I can completely understand Apple's position on this matter. Given they're "under attack" at the moment because of their stance on encryption and not providing easy access aka 'willy nilly' type responses to just anyone at all even in spite of having what appear to be legitimate legal documents, and even in spite of me not liking Apple in general for a wide variety of reasons, in this specific situation I don't have a problem with their stance.
Click to expand...
She was his wife and owned the iPad and the account associated with it as much as her husband did when she was alive. Unless Canadian law is wildly different from, you know, every other western nation, upon his death she assumed complete ownership of all her husband's stuff, and that should include any online accounts he had.

This is such an easy call that I'm genuinely shocked anyone would...think different.
 
Babbster said:
She was his wife and owned the iPad and the account associated with it as much as her husband did when she was alive. Unless Canadian law is wildly different from, you know, every other western nation, upon his death she assumed complete ownership of all her husband's stuff, and that should include any online accounts he had.

This is such an easy call that I'm genuinely shocked anyone would...think different.
Click to expand...

And if Apple can't get her the password since everything is encrypted and they can't access the accounts? Realistically all she should have to do is a password reset and then check her husband's email for the link. Though she probably doesn't have that either, but hey if she has the free time to go after Apple for a calculator app, good for her :rolleyes:
 
As much as it hates me I almost have to side with Apple here. I know the article talks about having switched the house to her name and all of that, but I would assume she was already on that. There is a difference between taking a joint account and removing a name vs gaining access to private data that somebody had. Thinking about an account just in general, a company could give a spouse a password for an account and they be able to use that to access data that person had access for at work. Apple has no way of knowing if they are giving you access to a person's personal account or work account. Same goes for Google or anyone else. So they are going to want to cover their asses there on that.

This is why it is smart to keep a password list so that when you die somebody can access all your accounts that you want / need them to.
 
as much as it hurts me.... not hates me... .although maybe Apple does hate me, don't know lol
 
evilsofa said:
Do you know how I know you haven't read the article?
Click to expand...

I read the article. Resetting and Apple ID password is easy. If she has the email address and can access it, then why can't she reset the password?
 
I think this more or less has to do with poor customer support. Old lady calls in not knowing what to do, disgruntled customer support says whatever to finish the call. Old lady still doesn't know what to do so she calls again and gets a different employee who does the same thing... this gets repeated ad naseum until she complains to friends family and Facebook. It's kind of funny really, because this directly corresponds to employee wages: you get what you pay for. If you want top notch customer support, don't outsource it to some company that claims 5 star service but pays the lowest rung minimum wage. Start shelling out 20/hr and see what quality people pop up out of the woodwork to work for you, if they aren't up to snuff get rid of them on the spot.

At this point in time though, it almost doesn't matter to many of these companies... they are far to big for something as a little bit of bad publicity to hurt them. They may lose a few thousand customers because of this, but the second they release a new "exclusive" they gain another million.

Only time bad publicity has any effect on companies is when stockholders bail out for fear of devaluation of stock.
 
Ocellaris said:
I read the article. Resetting and Apple ID password is easy. If she has the email address and can access it, then why can't she reset the password?
Click to expand...

I was having problems checking this earlier since I was at work but you're right ... there is a lost your id link at the apple id page ... if all she wants to do is reset the password to access the account then that should be a cake walk ... I am wondering if this story isn't playing for effect since it uses an elderly widow to drive home their point ... I think they are positioning this story for the transfer rights of digital media (which has yet to be sorted out by the USA or other world courts) ... seems like they are trying to taint the jury pool with a clearly slanted story
 
Steve said:
Holy cow, a notarized death certificate, serial numbers of the devices and a copy of the husband's will is "nilly willy?"

Aside from dragging his corpse down to the Apple store, what else do you need to prove he's dead?
Click to expand...

OK guys, your gonna need to amend your Will so it says its fine for someone to drag your body to Apple and show it to them after you kick the bucket. ;)
 
I think apple is doing the right thing here. Sorry for the lost of whatever is behind that password. but he should have put that in the Will or told her about it if it was a thing to be shared

The password my wife doesn't know is because i never want her to get those. pre or post death
 
This is how it's supposed to be. If I were in his shoes, I'd like the same treatment for my digital property.
 
Well lets give it another 10-20 years and see how some of you feel.

Of course you'll all have setup automatic password transfers that activate once your heart stops that will have been detected by your iColon phone and fitness tracker. Or maybe it will have been due to you iPacemaker dropping out of support...beep beep beep beeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeep
 
Might I guess most of you aren't married? Does your significant other know that you don't truly give yourself whole and completely to them? Seriously she sounds like she may have been a decent enough wife to respect his privacy to not know his password. I don't know my wifes out of respect of hers but god forbid she passes before me I would like access to make sure nothing of note is there that could impact my finacials or maybe poics to remember her by, she love to take selfies.
 
daglesj said:
Well lets give it another 10-20 years and see how some of you feel.

Of course you'll all have setup automatic password transfers that activate once your heart stops that will have been detected by your iColon phone and fitness tracker. Or maybe it will have been due to you iPacemaker dropping out of support...beep beep beep beeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeep
Click to expand...

Or like most aspects of dying you need to make preparations ... if you share your account with family members then you should share your passwords ... you should make sure that your family member who will cover your death details is aware of all of your digital footprint that needs management

There has to be some other aspect of this that wasn't disclosed in the article ... Apple has a password reset link on the Apple ID page ... if she had full control of his email and other accounts then she should be able to reset his password in minutes ... after the article I read a few weeks ago about someone who had their account reset over the phone (by an identity thief) I would expect Apple to exercise a fair amount of due diligence with someone who is not following the standard and established reset procedure
 
JustReason said:
Might I guess most of you aren't married? Does your significant other know that you don't truly give yourself whole and completely to them? Seriously she sounds like she may have been a decent enough wife to respect his privacy to not know his password. I don't know my wifes out of respect of hers but god forbid she passes before me I would like access to make sure nothing of note is there that could impact my finacials or maybe poics to remember her by, she love to take selfies.
Click to expand...

I know the wi-fi password and my other half doesn't.

That's a stronger bond than any marriage.;)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top