End Of The Road For Rearview Mirrors?

Megalith

Megalith

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Replacing mirrors with cameras sounds great in theory, but do you think there will be any significant downsides?

…companies say their systems offer several advantages: a more complete view of the landscape and better vision at night. And they will avoid problems of side mirrors which get fogged up or covered with rain. The systems offer a better aerodynamic profile for the car, which can reduce fuel consumption. None of these systems are in cars yet, but looking ahead, cameras seem to be the wave of the future.
 
What if the cameras stop working? Wouldn't that cost more to replace or maintain than a rear view mirror? I mean, how can you go wrong with a rear view mirror? Cameras add complexity, which normally creates more problems.
 
My rear view mirror (center one) is still useful for a quick glance to see who's behind me when driving or what not. When backing up though my back up cam makes it easy to squeeze into the tiniest of spots and parallel parking is not a difficult thing to do anymore.

I would think the largest problem with using any sort of camera system is to try and unlearn habits that we have, I mean you glance at your side mirror on the drivers side to see if anyone is there before giving a quick look, you naturally want to look in that direction not towards the center console at some screen, what happens when you see nothing because there is no mirror to see anything with? I hate to say it but they try hammer into your head from a young age that you need to constantly be thinking when driving, when much of driving is just the opposite, it's reflex, or muscle memory telling you what to do, not actively thinking about every little thing that is happening or could happen.
 
I agree.
If its not broke, costs less, breaks less, costs less to maintain, dont fix it.
Fuel consumption difference will be laughable.

For trucks that have severe blind spots then yes.
 
Context matters. Give me an example and let me judge what is better myself. No point in trying to decide based on theory.
 
I like my backup camera. However I don't want my rearview replaced with it for a very important reason. I live in the north in winter time...where you get salt and grime all over the camera constantly. This renders a "rear view" camera useless in about 2 minutes of driving. Where my internal mirror strangely enough stays clean (i know right?). So elimination of the mirror? Nope. Sounds like someone lives in a section of the country where they haven't had to deal with actual winter.
 
GotNoRice said:
Context matters. Give me an example and let me judge what is better myself. No point in trying to decide based on theory.
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Rear view mirror, the area you can see is limited by the angles your rear window makes with the mirror, so actual amount you can see varies from car to car
Rear camera, the area you can see is limited by the angular size of the camera, in many cases 120° or more which far out classes all rear view mirror's capabilities. Type of car is irrelevant since the data comes from outside the car.

Now the side mirrors, I can't say, I have yet to see a replacement for them in the digital spectrum, I assume would be a similar argument, but who knows.
 
sfsuphysics said:
My rear view mirror (center one) is still useful for a quick glance to see who's behind me when driving or what not. When backing up though my back up cam makes it easy to squeeze into the tiniest of spots and parallel parking is not a difficult thing to do anymore.

I would think the largest problem with using any sort of camera system is to try and unlearn habits that we have, I mean you glance at your side mirror on the drivers side to see if anyone is there before giving a quick look, you naturally want to look in that direction not towards the center console at some screen, what happens when you see nothing because there is no mirror to see anything with? I hate to say it but they try hammer into your head from a young age that you need to constantly be thinking when driving, when much of driving is just the opposite, it's reflex, or muscle memory telling you what to do, not actively thinking about every little thing that is happening or could happen.
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I think it depends on how they replace them--you put screens in the corners (next to the A-pillars) where you'd expect to look at your side mirrors, and I'd doubt that it's too much a difference in feel/habit. Or a 3-way split view in the center of the dash (at least I look at my center rear view first, then into my side mirrors), where you get the whole landscape behind/beside you in one fell swoop.

Auto makers and regulatory agencies are crazy conservative about this stuff, so I'd be very very surprised if this isn't done with accounting for a lot of these realities.
 
Dekoth-E- said:
I like my backup camera. However I don't want my rearview replaced with it for a very important reason. I live in the north in winter time...where you get salt and grime all over the camera constantly. This renders a "rear view" camera useless in about 2 minutes of driving. Where my internal mirror strangely enough stays clean (i know right?). So elimination of the mirror? Nope. Sounds like someone lives in a section of the country where they haven't had to deal with actual winter.
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Exactly this. My parents live on a dirt road so its all year and not just winter that the backup camera needs to be cleaned off constantly. Or....we can just backup with mirrors like always.
 
I see it as a fix to a problem that doesn't really exist. It doesn't even really fix the problem either.

As someone mentioned, in the winter, cameras get rendered all but useless pretty quickly. In New England my rear view camera is often unusable due to road salts. This is one of the reasons I prefer sensors over cameras in cars.

For side view mirrors, they would simply add a fairly significant cost to the vehicle, and add several more places where the system could fail. If the concern is not seeing what's in the blind spot a $3 blind spot mirror will fix that. If you want something more fancy, a sensor with a blind spot indicator would work. (my car has this, and I love it)

Another problem I see with rear view camera systems is that they would increase the ambient light in the cabin at night, really messing with night vision, potentially increasing the likelihood of an accident.

I personally, have never wished I could see more out of my rear view mirror. (the one on the windshield) Blind spots can be a problem on side mirrors, but that is easily solved without sophisticated camera and LCD systems.
 
As a replacement? not in the near future.

As an Aid, yes. For parking or reverse driving.
 
Here's an example of the problem with cameras for mirror replacement.

WP_20160110_13_44_28_Rich.jpg


This is just from rain. On a snowy day, you don't even get this much detail.
 
Megalith said:
Replacing mirrors with cameras sounds great in theory, but do you think there will be any significant downsides?

…companies say their systems offer several advantages: a more complete view of the landscape and better vision at night. And they will avoid problems of side mirrors which get fogged up or covered with rain. The systems offer a better aerodynamic profile for the car, which can reduce fuel consumption. None of these systems are in cars yet, but looking ahead, cameras seem to be the wave of the future.
Click to expand...

I've had heated mirrors on my 1997 compact class car, that took care of the raindrops and fogging. So that's not a good reason.

Side mirrors don't have that big of a frontal area, to have a significant measurable effect on fuel consumption.

I guess it can be done well, but also poorly. It depends on the coverage of the camera and the location of the display.
 
M76 said:
I've had heated mirrors on my 1997 compact class car, that took care of the raindrops and fogging. So that's not a good reason.

Side mirrors don't have that big of a frontal area, to have a significant measurable effect on fuel consumption.

I guess it can be done well, but also poorly. It depends on the coverage of the camera and the location of the display.
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Heated doesn't do crap for salt.
 
Sorry boss, I can't come in to work today. Um, yeah, the rear view camera system on my car malfunctioned and I'm not supposed to drive my car without it.

Hey don't blame me, blame the government for getting rid of perfectly fine, manually operated rear view mirrors. :D
 
This is something that they need on big trucks asap, the huge blindspots they have could be solved with good placement of cameras, even a front facing camera (so they can see what's below the cab in front and don't accidentally hit something).
 
earnolmartin said:
What if the cameras stop working? Wouldn't that cost more to replace or maintain than a rear view mirror? I mean, how can you go wrong with a rear view mirror? Cameras add complexity, which normally creates more problems.
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You ask too many questions. :D Relax, guy! It'll work just fine - always. I promise! Pinky swear!
 
Rebel44 said:
shape of camera housing can significantly reduce intrusion of things like salt and wiper fluid can take care of the rest
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Yea...come up north during winter and take a look at the back of cars...shape of camera housing isn't going to do shit and you would be going through a retarded amount of wiper fluid to keep that clear.
 
If the cameras or display fail, you could just turn your head and look... which you're supposed to do anyways, instead of fixating straight ahead.
 
Something like Nissan's surround view is actually pretty cool for parking.
35485352_prev_SS13_610x458.jpg


Having something to supplement the regular side mirrors would also be cool as an option. As a replacement? LOL, no thanks for the reasons already stated above. Anyone with a backup cam knows how easy it is even in fair weather to have crap end up on the lens blocking your view. I wouldn't want to rely on my own vehicle(especially other people's vehicles considering how crappy the average driver is already anyway) have even less of a reason to "check their mirrors" because the camera got wet, dusty, covered in bird shit, iced over, etc.
 
Dekoth-E- said:
Heated doesn't do crap for salt.
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I don't eat off my rear view mirrors, so that was never a problem for me. Seriously salt never made it into my mirrors ever. I don't think they're allowed to use salt anymore btw. It's some synthetic nature friendly shit.
 
Yesfor trucks and maybe warmer climates.

Where it snows there's already too many people who don't bother properly desnowing their vehicles as it is, doubt they'd clean their cameras properly, making them even more dangerous. Heavy snow, sleet and rain could also be a big issue of blocking the cameras even while moving. Salt... Yeah after a thaw and quick freeze especially.
 
I feel like I need to go take a picture of the back of my car to give a salt visual for those that don't have to drive in this crap.

Anyway, the biggest issue with this is that a camera provides a static view, while a mirror is dynamic. Shift your head a little in any direction and your view changes, and it's been a cost-effective solution for decades so doesn't make sense to omit.
 
The rearview mirror is entering obsolescence anyway, given the looming presence of self-driving cars. However, as long as human remains behind the wheel, there is no benefit to removing the simple, mechanical means of ensuring an occupant's safety.

Why not replace the windshield with a video screen? Nobody would argue the wisdom of that move. The fact is, we are in the data collection stage of self-driving development, where sensors are deployed and assistance is tested, but replacement is not ready.

Besides, wresting any control from the driver is going to be met with massive resistance until all control is deemed unnecessary. People don't mind riding a train, but they wouldn't even consider it if they were responsible for reporting obstructions to the conductor.
 
Self driving cards still require a human at the controls.
Its an insurance nightmare if a human isnt liable and the main priority is safety.
 
Merc1138 said:
Something like Nissan's surround view is actually pretty cool for parking.
35485352_prev_SS13_610x458.jpg


Having something to supplement the regular side mirrors would also be cool as an option. As a replacement? LOL, no thanks for the reasons already stated above. Anyone with a backup cam knows how easy it is even in fair weather to have crap end up on the lens blocking your view. I wouldn't want to rely on my own vehicle(especially other people's vehicles considering how crappy the average driver is already anyway) have even less of a reason to "check their mirrors" because the camera got wet, dusty, covered in bird shit, iced over, etc.
Click to expand...

And my wife has this surround view on her 2015 Nissan Rogue, and it ain't perfect. In fact, a blind spot exists right on the corner of the rear bumper at a 45 degree angle. She and another woman were backing out of opposite parking spots, one over from one another, at the same time and my wife's passenger rear bumper area collided with the other's. The other vehicle never entered the "path" of the rear so the system didn't beep. The impact occurred before anything noticeable appeared on the monitor. A simple head turn and looking around would not have missed it.
 
PCMusicGuy said:
And my wife has this surround view on her 2015 Nissan Rogue, and it ain't perfect. In fact, a blind spot exists right on the corner of the rear bumper at a 45 degree angle. She and another woman were backing out of opposite parking spots, one over from one another, at the same time and my wife's passenger rear bumper area collided with the other's. The other vehicle never entered the "path" of the rear so the system didn't beep. The impact occurred before anything noticeable appeared on the monitor. A simple head turn and looking around would not have missed it.
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Technology will never be advanced enough to make up for women drivers :D:D
 
PCMusicGuy said:
And my wife has this surround view on her 2015 Nissan Rogue, and it ain't perfect. In fact, a blind spot exists right on the corner of the rear bumper at a 45 degree angle. She and another woman were backing out of opposite parking spots, one over from one another, at the same time and my wife's passenger rear bumper area collided with the other's. The other vehicle never entered the "path" of the rear so the system didn't beep. The impact occurred before anything noticeable appeared on the monitor. A simple head turn and looking around would not have missed it.
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I would disagree, having driven that same vehicle, a massive blind spot exists visually at that exact same angle as well. The d-pillar on that thing is huge. I'm not defending your wife, but that vehicle sucks for visibility.
 
No. Even with back up cameras, I make my own visual check for what I can see. Backup cams are great and help out a lot, but if someone is hauling ass in your direction and the camera isn't seeing it yet, when it does, it's too late. I'm always looking for drivers that aren't driving too well. And, it's happened. Rearview mirror - same thing. I can glance or even have some peripheral vision and see things in it (movement, see a car coming up fast or whatever).

Cameras are a great add on feature, but they can't replace my rear view mirror yet.
 
If my garage door opening buttons wernt tied to my RVM id rip that thing off in a heart beat.. Its absolutely useless in my Veloster. My back window is so small and its intersected right through the middle by my factory wing that you cant see out the back anyways.

Ive often considered getting one of those clip over video screens for the RVM and using that but I havent figured out how to tie it to my existing camera yet.
 
One major downside that nobody ever seems to acknowledge is the change in focus your eyes have to make. When you're looking 100' down the road in front of you, then glance in your mirror, your eyes are still at the same focus, so you immediately see 100' behind you. With a display screen, you have to change your focus from 100' to 4', then back to 100'. It sounds insignificant, but if you're glancing in your mirror every few moments as you should be, you'll get a headache pretty quickly. What will happen is people will just stop looking at the display.
 
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