Next-Generation Consoles May Have 5x Performance/Watt, VR Focus

Megalith

Megalith

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Does this mean that the PS5 and Xbox Two will be able to hit that mythical 1080p, 60fps setting?

AMD is the supplier of the hearts of current generation consoles: the APUs. Considering their experience in the APU sector, it is of little surprise that AMD has plans to provide chips for the next generation of consoles as well – which if they are to be believed will happen by 2018.
 
The next gen of consoles has to hit 1440p @ 90 FPS (minimum VR specs) or there is no point.
 
I thought this gen was supposed to last like 10 years lol it wont even last 5 hardware is too dated, maybe the next gen could do 4k @ 30 fps but thats a big maybe.
 
Well consider they will have the kinks worked out of hbm and it will likely be using the second geration of hbm paired with a zen based apu that seems entirely possible if not a bit of a low ball...

imagine a cpu 3 times as fast as a a10-7870k with a fury grade gpu on it.
 
The big news is AMD actually believing they'll still be around in 2018.

As evidenced by their Financials, they're really just breaking even on supplying the consoles now, what's the point in continuing?
 
They need to aim for consistent 60 FPS at 4K. If that means they need to implement some kind of multi-GPU in these upcoming consoles to attain it, then so be it. The 4K TV market will boom, and it desperately needs to.
 
Spire3660 said:
The next gen of consoles has to hit 1440p @ 90 FPS (minimum VR specs) or there is no point.
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Agreed.

I'd wager we *might* be able to get 4k@30fps. Otherwise, maybe they adopt some upscaler algorithm to cheat 4k. Yeah, we all want the magical 4k@60fps, but it's not going to happen. Console games have been designed around 30fps for years and it'll likely be what they aim for when they first attempt 4k.

Given the time frame, 2018 gives 2 / 2.5 years of development. It's not a stretch that they might get 390/x (probably a 480 at the time?) into it.
 
Yeah, you know me, my biggest concern is not performance, its performance per watt. *facepalm*

This reminds me of the Civic drag racers back in the day that would make themselves feel better by pointing out that even though they lost the race and have far less horsepower, they have way higher horsepower per liter! Ooooh! That means its high tech. High V-tec specifically!
 
DejaWiz said:
They need to aim for consistent 60 FPS at 4K. If that means they need to implement some kind of multi-GPU in these upcoming consoles to attain it, then so be it. The 4K TV market will boom, and it desperately needs to.
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Because sli and crossfire work so well:rolleyes:

I already posted this but

I expect ZEN based apu with HBM2 4-8GB on the SOC

At least as powerful as a 9570 with a fury is what i expect.
 
There's no way new consoles will happen by 2018. There are still tons of people who haven't bought the PS4/Xbone who will when it gets cheaper and gets more games (like Gran Turismo). Probably 2020-2025 is more likely for the XTwo and PS5. Having dated hardware didn't stop the last generation of consoles from dragging their feet for 8-10 years, and this generation will be no different.

The performance improvements in CPUs and GPUs has generally been slowing down in recent years too, so it will take longer for big improvements to happen. The jump to 14/16nm GPUs could make a big difference but it's likely that we'll be stuck at 14/16nm for 5+ years after that happens.
 
Lunas said:
Well consider they will have the kinks worked out of hbm and it will likely be using the second geration of hbm paired with a zen based apu that seems entirely possible if not a bit of a low ball...

imagine a cpu 3 times as fast as a a10-7870k with a fury grade gpu on it.
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Zen has my eye curious to see what they release.
 
Next gen won't be out for some time. After all, the market forced the current consoles out 2 years early. 4K would be nice but it requires too much processing power to be practical from a console standpoint. The consoles would be too expensive. This Christmas will bring a big boost to both console platforms in terms of user numbers. In all seriousness, people may want ridiculous performance numbers from a console but both currently offer adequate performance and deliver good visuals for only $300. Yes, that will be the new price point soon. 4K is nowhere near mass adoption because most people would rather get the cheap 1080p screen over the slightly more expensive 4k one. When 720p screens disappear from the market, prepare for 4K.
 
They really don't need 4K60. Even if they are capable of it, hell, regardless of how fast these consoles end up being, chances are developers will eventually settle on something more like ~1440p upscaled because increasing resolution gives diminishing returns (moreso when you're viewing a TV from some distance away) and you'll get a better looking game by leveraging your computational budget elsewhere.
 
DejaWiz said:
If implemented in a hardware-locked environment with a narrow-scope SDK, then it's entirely feasible to make it effectively work.
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i still think if it were that simple every game that comes out would not need a driver optimization for it as it sits now there should be enough practice coding that games should scale and have native support built into the api DX12 is supposed to fix it but sli and crossfire is old enough DX11 should have had fixes in it for this.
 
DejaWiz said:
They need to aim for consistent 60 FPS at 4K. If that means they need to implement some kind of multi-GPU in these upcoming consoles to attain it, then so be it.
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That won't happen, period. You should know better.

It would be much simpler and more efficient in this case to just pack more Gpu cores in and sacrifice cpu power.
 
Lunas said:
i still think if it were that simple every game that comes out would not need a driver optimization for it as it sits now there should be enough practice coding that games should scale and have native support built into the api DX12 is supposed to fix it but sli and crossfire is old enough DX11 should have had fixes in it for this.
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I see your point, but a console operating environment is theoretically easier to dev and optimize for because of the fixed hardware and known capabilities. Dev'ing for PC can be a nightmare because of a seemingly infinite amount of hardware cconfigurations/combinations, operating system versions and revisional releases, drivers, etc.
 
In 10 years or whenever the next gen arrives, I expect they'll be technically capable of 4k to the extent that MS and Sony can check the bullet point on the feature list, but no AAA games will actually render natively at that resolution, just like they still don't seem to manage full HD in a lot of cases, even though were on the second generation of HD consoles.
 
I can see a ps4hd or xbonehd. But the next generation will be a while.
 
DPI said:
They've got a Vulkan beta driver under NDA right now so to AMD's credit they're not completely asleep at the wheel, since Nvidia sure isn't.
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Amd will still be around the question is will they still be independent. I could see someone like Apple or Samsung having interest in their graphics division. Not so much on the cpus.
 
Chaos Machine said:
Amd will still be around the question is will they still be independent. I could see someone like Apple or Samsung having interest in their graphics division. Not so much on the cpus.
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With google looking at getting into the soc business google is now a contender but honestly i see samsung or google maybe a partnership type deal...
 
Lunas said:
With google looking at getting into the soc business google is now a contender but honestly i see samsung or google maybe a partnership type deal...
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Somehow, I do not ever see a successful console with an Arm processor in it. Yes, today's consoles are successful regardless of your personal opinion of them.
 
Ducman69 said:
Yeah, you know me, my biggest concern is not performance, its performance per watt. *facepalm*

This reminds me of the Civic drag racers back in the day that would make themselves feel better by pointing out that even though they lost the race and have far less horsepower, they have way higher horsepower per liter! Ooooh! That means its high tech. High V-tec specifically!
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I don't think AMD is marketing this (directly) to you, the consumer. Sony and MS etc care about this because their designs have to fit into a specific footprint in the living room.

AMD's job is to sell them a product that fits their needs, what the console manufacturers do after that to attract consumers is their business.
 
they should just put the GPU on a small daughterboard/cartridge, forget the integrated nonsense...
 
The problem we have:

You have a console that runs 900p at 30 FPS today.

in order to render the exact same content in 4K at 60 FPS (no visual upgrade, just resolution and refresh) you would need nearly 10 times as much power. Remember, that's JUST to render yesterday's games at 4K60. ~ 5 times the power to bump up the resolution, and then double the power for double the FPS.

And at 4K, yesterday's games look like shit! each polygon now has 5x the amount of pixels to define it, so things that appeared round at 900p are lumpy and stop-sign-esque. Textures that looked fine at 900p now look blurry and undefined, there are WAY more pixels per texel than before, a 2K texture could fill 2+ 900p render windows. the same texture on 4K is less than half the screen. Real-time shadows that looked smooth before now have a ton of resolution showing just how low-resolution the shading is.

Now imagine if you want a visual upgrade on top of that: you want better shaders, more polygons, sharper lighting.... You need a LOT more power. You want to push the details-per-pixel to the same level it was at 900p... well, you need an additional 5x power on top of the original 10x upgrade just to get the game running at 4K60. That's not 15x the power originally, that's 50x the power of the original console to get both a resolution, refresh AND a detail boost. And theoretically, the detail-per-pixel is the same as the 900p console.


We aren't going to see 4K consoles anytime soon.
 
Lunas said:
Because sli and crossfire work so well:rolleyes:

I already posted this but

I expect ZEN based apu with HBM2 4-8GB on the SOC

At least as powerful as a 9570 with a fury is what i expect.
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Multi-chip solutions on console are nothing new. Yes they are harder to program for, but many consoles like the Saturn have used several different CPUs and graphics chips in combination.

Still unlikely imo, but not entirely out of the possibility. It would just be too expensive I think.
 
bloodypulp said:
they should just put the GPU on a small daughterboard/cartridge, forget the integrated nonsense...
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That has been tried historically all consoles with this idea have failed

sega 32x
sega saturn
Nintendo 64
Super nintendo cd
sega cd
Phantom Console (oh hey steam machine)

All of the above upgraded or had the ability to upgrade a console
the sega cd and 32x added a new gpu and co processing unit
nintendo 64 could be upgraded from 2mb vram to 4mb
super nintendo cd was scrapped to become the playstation
sega saturn just did not do well and could accept memory upgrades
phantom console never got made but it was basically off the shelf pc to make the first steam machine p4 fx 5500 video card and a stick of ram.
 
Ducman69 said:
Yeah, you know me, my biggest concern is not performance, its performance per watt. *facepalm*

This reminds me of the Civic drag racers back in the day that would make themselves feel better by pointing out that even though they lost the race and have far less horsepower, they have way higher horsepower per liter! Ooooh! That means its high tech. High V-tec specifically!
Click to expand...

That was more a nod to Honda's ability to design a lightweight, cool running, bullet proof, wide powerband, high revving, perfectly squared engine than an excuse. Honda B series engines and their ability to make tons of power on low boost drove the after market for 10 years and its why there are twin turbo 2000 hp V8's running around today. Honda K motors are still among the best. 1000 hp is done regularly.

Ah the good ol days of honda ministry. Its been awhile, thanks!
 
oops forgot to ad. jokes aside. I'd be happy with a console that'd do 1080p60 and not be numbed down in the UI department and also not lock you in on a pay-to-play-multiplayer eco system so that if i wish to fire up a game i once played many years ago to check out a replay or stats, i can. I payed for the damn thing!!!!!!!
 
KazeoHin said:
in order to render the exact same content in 4K at 60 FPS (no visual upgrade, just resolution and refresh) you would need nearly 10 times as much power. Remember, that's JUST to render yesterday's games at 4K60. ~ 5 times the power to bump up the resolution, and then double the power for double the FPS.
Click to expand...

Consoles don't need to run 4K at 60FPS. Console developers are perfectly happy with 30FPS content.
 
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