Is Windows 10 Telemetry A Threat To Your Personal Privacy?

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Is Windows 10 telemetry a threat to your personal privacy? Trick question! EVERYTHING these days is a threat to your personal privacy.

Microsoft has built an entirely new telemetry system for its 'Windows as a Service' engineering model. In Windows 10, you can dial data collection back almost to zero, but you can't turn it off completely. Here's why.
 
What is this a paid advertisement by Microsoft? It sure sounds like that.

This setting, which is the default for Windows 10, includes all information from the previous levels, plus "additional details necessary to identify and help to fix problems."
"Additional details" - oh yeah, that's very specific, thank you, I didn't know that, now my fears of data collection are completely dispelled.
 
My answer would be yes for the simple fact that Microsoft will not reveal precisely what they are collecting. The EULA (especially the one used during the preview/beta stages of Windows 10 development) did explicitly state that many things up to and including individual keystrokes were being captured and sent their way so it goes without saying (at least for me) that such actions are tantamount to "mass surveillance" considering they love bragging about the fact that Windows 10 is now or at least was a few weeks ago installed on 110 million computers worldwide.

If they can't or won't tell me what they're collecting and show me proof of it without any shadow of a doubt in a manner that I can verify myself then I have no use for the OS and I don't, really, because it offers me absolutely nothing over Windows 7, not one damned thing, not even the fact that it's free of monetary cost.

I wish people would pay more attention about these things and not brush off the privacy concerns so lightly, I really do.
 
Honestly, the sooner we get over our idea of privacy, the better. It already doesn't exist.

Its not brushing off privacy concerns, its simply a fact, as our technology grows, particularly in the realm of communication, our privacy shrinks, this was happening even before the internet.

The conversation needs to change from Privacy to storage and use of such information. If we don't change the conversation, it will be had without the public.
 
OMFG I just can't pass this by quitly.

Look, the only "off switch" that works on modern computing devices is disconnecting from the Internet completely. Any device has to communicate with external servers to look up IP addresses, to receive updates, to synchronize data and settings with cloud services, to send and receive email, to browse the web, and so on and on and on.

He compares the whole data collection to a simple ip lookup. No way, I had to read this paragraph three times and I'm still in shock.

This seems like a perfectly reasonable product design to me.

Perfectly reasonable is if it's opt-in. And not enabled by default and the only way to disable it is by 3rd party applications that I'd prefer not to use. I just don't see the reasoning here: Hey I don'T want microsoft collecting data on me, so I'll use this unverified 3rd party application and give it acces to my windows installation, where it may turn off the data collection, or simply redirect the stream to their malicious servers.

Again I have nothing against microsoft collecting the data. But I don't trust that they can or would protect my data well enough, during and after the transfer to their servers. What if it falls in the wrong hands? And in this case the wrong hands can also mean law enforcement who might try to use the data against me. To me collecting my data is like an illegal wiretap. And if I'm not allowed to see exactly what is being sent, then I'd rather it not being sent at all.

If I'm forced on w10 eventually I might just end up using an illegal copy of enterprise since as an end user I can't buy that version.
 
Not worried about it. I got real shit to worry about besides anonymized telemetry data, like actual NSA spying and businesses and gov leaking all my shit every 15 minutes.
 
You accepted the EULA. You connected your PC to a public network, where you have no reasonable right to privacy. I fail to see the problem here, since by installing the software and connecting your PC to the Internet, you effectively "opted in".
 
Honestly, the sooner we get over our idea of privacy, the better. It already doesn't exist.

Its not brushing off privacy concerns, its simply a fact, as our technology grows, particularly in the realm of communication, our privacy shrinks, this was happening even before the internet.

The conversation needs to change from Privacy to storage and use of such information. If we don't change the conversation, it will be had without the public.

Privacy doesn't exist to those who were complacent in sharing their private details with the world over social media, and the cloud and other services. I believe that I still have most of it intact, and I'm not going to let it go without a fight.
 
You accepted the EULA. You connected your PC to a public network, where you have no reasonable right to privacy. I fail to see the problem here, since by installing the software and connecting your PC to the Internet, you effectively "opted in".

Your analogy is good, as it compares the internet to a public place. But just because I'm in a public place I don't want anyone go trough my pockets while I'm there.
 
From the article:

Basic. This level includes information about security settings, quality-related info (such as crashes and hangs), and application compatibility. Microsoft considers this information essential for maintaining and improving the quality of Windows 10. It contains only anonymous identifiers and can't be used to identify an individual device or person.
Enhanced. This level includes the Basic information and adds details about how Windows and Windows apps are used, how they perform, and advanced reliability info.
Full. This setting, which is the default for Windows 10, includes all information from the previous levels, plus "additional details necessary to identify and help to fix problems." Presumably, this category includes error reports and mini-dump files after serious crashes.
 
Haha, remember when Microsoft was running all those anti google ads about Gmail....
 
From the article:

And your point is? We can read, the problem is that there is nothing to read from that.

"quality-related info"
"advanced reliability info"
"additional details"

Absolutely anything can be transferred under these pretences, this is not specific at all.

I have no use for maybes and presumablies. Either they show me exactly what is being sent, or it's not gonna be sent, that's as far as I'm concerned.
 
https://mvp.microsoft.com/en-us/PublicProfile/4000527?fullName=Ed Bott
Ed Bott is a best-selling author of more than 25 computer books and an award-winning computer journalist with two decades of experience in the personal computer industry. In those heady pre-Web days, he was managing editor of PC World and later editor of PC Computing; both magazines had circulations in excess of 1 million. Ed is a three-time winner of the Computer Press Award, and he and Woody Leonhard won the prestigious Jesse H. Neal Award, sometimes referred to as “the Pulitzer Prize of the business press,” in back-to-back years for their work on PC Computing’s “Windows SuperGuide.”. You can read more of Ed’s writing at his own blog, Ed Bott's Windows Expertise, and at Ed Bott's Microsoft Report at ZDNet.
He sees one of the important roles of MVPs as serving as the voice of community to Microsoft, bringing those struggles and pain points into sharp relief in their many conversations with Microsoft product teams.
“A lot of people have the misconception that MVPs are recognized by Microsoft because they are evangelists. That’s not it at all,” said Ed. “They’re influential in community and they work as advocates for the community. They come to events like the MVP Global Summit to give feedback from the community—from their clients, customers, colleagues. It’s a critical opportunity for Microsoft to listen to real-world feedback.”

Don't worry, he's one of the good guys, MS swears! :rolleyes:
 
Yeah, that's the most unhelpful article ever. Even at Basic level, Microsoft could be like, "Well, keystroke logging and occasionally snapping an illicit image from the webcam is vital to troubleshooting crashes so it's part of the telemetry," and the end user population wouldn't know otherwise based on the information currently available.
 
Basic is the same as the anonymous windows error reporting in older versions of windows, which I used anyway.
Advanced is to see how users use Microsoft apps to improve them.


The only concerning thing is the automatic updates. In combination with the idea that if Microsoft has a "backdoor" way of identifying users, say if their anonymous device id is used while syncing. And then target a specific user with an automatic update for the NSA.
 
As far as I can tell, Microsoft has no plans to block those utilities from working. They just don't want to invest engineering resources into building features they believe make it more difficult to maintain Windows.

This seems like a perfectly reasonable product design to me.

This is the only part where he sounds like he's being reasonably objective. Also, it wouldn't be hard at all to figure out which IPs are the ones that go back to Microsoft and block them on your firewall/router. No need to disconnect from the internet entirely as he suggests. Personally, I won't update to Windows 10 unless its the Enterprise edition, even for my home use. Enterprise edition conveniently leaves out all the crap I don't want. And I'd rather pay for it than upgrade to Windows 10 Spyware edition for free.

In the mean time, I'll wait until there's an actual (as opposed to hypothetical or completely made up) reason to switch, and remain on Windows 7. Windows 10 is not a mountain. I'm not going to climb it just because its there. I'm not going to update just because its free when my current OS is just as good. Looking forward, DirectX12 actually mattering to a game I want to play could prompt me to switch. But that's not going to happen for a while, if ever.
 
Yes because facebook, google and apple are very private..... I amazes me how anything Microsoft people are up in arms however they are happy to turn a blind eye to facebook, google and apple.... I would be more worried about those companies then Microsoft.
 
The fact that Ed Bott - a known pro-Microsoft blogger and MSFT shareholder - is writing a spin piece to downplay the data collection concerns that are continuing to gain momentum, tells you Microsoft is actually feeling the backlash about data collection. Good. It's getting hot in the kitchen.

As yourself this: If data collection is as benign as Microsoft has tried to nsist, why are they afraid to make it mandatory for Enterprise? Because they know better. And because the likelihood of lawsuit goes up one hundred fold.

So they're willing to throw their consumer customers under the bus, take on more brand damage and more loss of mindshare, but are smart enough not to mess with their golden goose Enterprise base. Comical.
 
Yes because facebook, google and apple are very private..... I amazes me how anything Microsoft people are up in arms however they are happy to turn a blind eye to facebook, google and apple.... I would be more worried about those companies then Microsoft.

There's always a post like this in any thread about Microsoft's telemetry and every single time, the basic reply is ---

1) It's not okay for one company to do something just because other companies are doing it too.

2) This thread is about a Microsoft product or service so the people in it are rightfully staying on topic by discussing it in specific rather than arguing about how awful Google or Facebook are (which isn't in debate).

So settle down and if you wanna also bash those other companies that we all know deserve it, wait patiently until a thread about one of them related to their abuse of privacy comes up and have fun. :D Until then, stop acting silly.
 
In the mean time, I'll wait until there's an actual (as opposed to hypothetical or completely made up) reason to switch, and remain on Windows 7. Windows 10 is not a mountain. I'm not going to climb it just because its there.
But Linux is a mountain and I did climb it. I have touched the peak and it is good. Currently only my gaming PC runs Windows 10, but my laptops and HTPCs runs Mint 17.2.

Windows isn't the only choice, except for gaming.

I'm not going to update just because its free when my current OS is just as good. Looking forward, DirectX12 actually mattering to a game I want to play could prompt me to switch. But that's not going to happen for a while, if ever.
Well, you could stick with Windows 7 and use Vulkan to achieve the same effect. Ashes of Singularity will run on Linux and use Vulkan as well.

Developer said:
That's the plan. Via Vulkan. Oxide Games is heavily involved in the group creating Vulkan.
 
Yes because facebook, google and apple are very private..... I amazes me how anything Microsoft people are up in arms however they are happy to turn a blind eye to facebook, google and apple.... I would be more worried about those companies then Microsoft.

This false equivalence is so worn out now. People aren't up in arms because it's Microsoft. They're up in arms because it's Windows. It's crossing a bigger boundary for most people than than spying web services or phone apps.

You can choose not to send certain information through your phone. You can close Facebook, Chrome, Gmail, whatever and continue to work/play on Windows 7 or 8 without these companies knowing what you're doing. I can't close Windows 10 and continue to work/play. When data collection is baked into the DNS of the OS, you can't get away from it.

This really shouldn't be such a hardthink concept. The "oh well the NSA exists & plus Google & Apple are spying on your phone, so just shut up and let it happen on your PC too" is a pretty absurd justification.
 
MVP's are not compensated, they are voluntary like moderating a public forum for years. So it is to say that they are well connected with the ideas of a community and a great source of community feedback.

I was implying that he's "in bed" with microsoft, given that he's supposed to be an advocate for the community but is here with an article saying "don't worry, its all good, MS says so"
 
I still stand by the feeling that even if Microsoft had my personal information, they wouldn't know what to do with it.
 
Boy, has ZNet SOLD OUT.

Anyway, this article really does not go in depth. Nor, does it answer the questions as to what is reported.

If it IS like Doctor Watson, fine. But, really, it does not seem so.
 
Anything about you that you have willfully signed away is fair game.

It just hadn't hit so close to home with respect to your operating system itself being a reporting tool.

Welcome to the new age of integration and acceptance testing. ;)
 
I know, most of the critics here say Microsoft is incompetent. Then, at the same time, they say Microsoft is evil and know what they are doing, meaning they are smart and competent. So, which is it because it cannot be both, they are either incompetent of competent?
 
Out of all the stuff flying around this thread, the only thing that truly bothers me is the phrase "Windows as a service..." Ugh...
 
Boy, has ZNet SOLD OUT.

Anyway, this article really does not go in depth. Nor, does it answer the questions as to what is reported.

If it IS like Doctor Watson, fine. But, really, it does not seem so.

If it really was just "apps installed & crash data" then why not just disclose it.

Obviously its much more that, if they're staying silent even while the boat continues to take on more water.
 
I know, most of the critics here say Microsoft is incompetent. Then, at the same time, they say Microsoft is evil and know what they are doing, meaning they are smart and competent. So, which is it because it cannot be both, they are either incompetent of competent?

That thing you posted, yeah, that proves absolutely nothing about competence.

And there are different levels of competence on different areas, but all in all, your post was pretty much worthless :)

But don't worry, we know were you and Heatless stand... or in which pocket :p:p:p

Seriously i don't think that none takes you two seriously in this forum, just as none takes Jen Hsun Huang1 seriously on the videocard subforums.
 
Companies and agencies have been doing this kind of thing since the dawn of interconnecting multiple computer clients.
 
But don't worry, we know were you and Heatless stand... or in which pocket :p:p:p

So you know where we stand or in which pocket. How about you? Whatever the case it's meaningless in a forum where identities are hidden.

These types of threads are basically geek entertainment. People will say what they will, maybe have some good info or proof, might be about blue being a good color for a cat. Who knows. But they're all pretty much opinion. There's really no point is making it out to be more than just people spouting off whatever comes to mind. Nothing in this forum effects the health, wealth or happiness of my loved ones or myself. I'm pretty sure that's the case for everyone around here.
 
You can choose not to send certain information through your phone. You can close Facebook, Chrome, Gmail, whatever and continue to work/play on Windows 7 or 8 without these companies knowing what you're doing. I can't close Windows 10 and continue to work/play. When data collection is baked into the DNS of the OS, you can't get away from it.

Unless you are Stephen Hawking, you just need to get up from your chair in order to stop sending information through your desktop OS. It's not like you don't choose the OS on your computer and how you use it, just like you choose your phone and what you use it for.
 
Yes because facebook, google and apple are very private..... I amazes me how anything Microsoft people are up in arms however they are happy to turn a blind eye to facebook, google and apple.... I would be more worried about those companies then Microsoft.

It's not that hard to understand the difference. On facebook the user chooses to share the information they put up. Windows telemetry is not voluntary you don't register to the service, the information is simply being sent without user oversight or knowledge.
 
....As yourself this: If data collection is as benign as Microsoft has tried to nsist, why are they afraid to make it mandatory for Enterprise? Because they know better. And because the likelihood of lawsuit goes up one hundred fold.

So they're willing to throw their consumer customers under the bus, take on more brand damage and more loss of mindshare, but are smart enough not to mess with their golden goose Enterprise base. Comical.

^^^^ exactly-fucking-this ^^^^

they don't give a good goddamn about you or me or any individual person, because they know they can just steamroll over people without much fear of reprisal. even if a single person or a small group of people sue them over it and actually do happen to win, their payout (if it ever actually happens) is like spitting in the ocean....they won't even notice that money is gone, and they probably already have a reserve account set aside just for such a scenario.

however, when you start trying to do the same to a large corporation with tons of money behind them, they sit up & take notice, and typically don't do things that would strain their relationship with that entity.

i don't care so much about the fact that they create a way to do data collection, but to not give people a way to turn it off completely if that's what they want is completely the wrong way to go about it. basically, they're stealing your internet bandwidth, which counts more than ever these days as ISP's are constantly migrating toward bandwidth & data caps. i don't care if the data collection only uses 1Kb of data; if Microsoft doesn't allow you to turn off that data collection completely, then that's theft of service. period.
 
That thing you posted, yeah, that proves absolutely nothing about competence.

And there are different levels of competence on different areas, but all in all, your post was pretty much worthless :)

But don't worry, we know were you and Heatless stand... or in which pocket :p:p:p

Seriously i don't think that none takes you two seriously in this forum, just as none takes Jen Hsun Huang1 seriously on the videocard subforums.

Sorry but, from the perspective of those in this forum, there are no different level of competence in Microsoft. :D Good luck with that though, I am sure you will try to claim otherwise. :p From your perspective, if it is not a negative Microsoft or Windows comment, it is pretty much worthless. Oh, and Linux sucks.:p (Not really but, that is what you think I think so, there you go.)
 
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