Ballmer: Nobody Wants To Work At Amazon, Only Microsoft Can Compete With Apple

Megalith

Megalith

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Steve Ballmer was recently interviewed by Bloomberg and was his usual candid self.

“If there’s going to be any competition at all from Apple, it’s going to come from Microsoft,” he said, citing the Surface Book laptop introduced this month with a detachable screen. “The Surface Book is not either an iMac or an iPad but it’s a new category. It’s an innovative category,” said Ballmer, the owner of the Los Angeles Clippers basketball team.
 
When you don't provide context and/or qualify the scope of your statements, you tend to make a fool out of yourself.
 
Forgive me if I cannot take anything this slob says seriously.

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DPI said:
Forgive me if I cannot take anything this slob says seriously.

63xMdOc.jpg
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If Ballmer made that statement after AT&T was subsidizing the phone, then I agree.
If not, then he wasn't wrong. The original device only sold 6 million units. The 3G sold 35 million.

Where Ballmer is wrong is people moving from MS to Amazon. I have a friend that left MS for Amazon 4 or 5 years ago. It also shows that he's stuck in a PC world, because MS is directly competing with Amazon's AWS and AFAIK, Apple has no presence in that area.
 
Paradigm shifts kill Goliaths.

iPods/iTunes is a paradigm shift for music.
iPhone is a paradigm shift for phone and mobile communication/media device.
Tablet is a paradigm shift from desktops/laptops for Internet browsing.
Amazon shopping with product feedbacks and click-to-super fast delivery is a paradigm shift.
Amazon EC2 is a paradigm shift for backend computing resource.

Microsoft needs to come up with and own a paradigm shift. Don't compete in your nemesis' home turf. Change the whole game. Until MSFT do that, they will fade like IBM, DEC, Cray, Xerox, etc...
 
nomas said:
Paradigm shifts kill Goliaths.

iPods/iTunes is a paradigm shift for music.
iPhone is a paradigm shift for phone and mobile communication/media device.
Tablet is a paradigm shift from desktops/laptops for Internet browsing.
Amazon shopping with product feedbacks and click-to-super fast delivery is a paradigm shift.
Amazon EC2 is a paradigm shift for backend computing resource.

Microsoft needs to come up with and own a paradigm shift. Don't compete in your nemesis' home turf. Change the whole game. Until MSFT do that, they will fade like IBM, DEC, Cray, Xerox, etc...
Click to expand...

You must have missed the quarter MS just turned in. They're apparently doing well in the Cloud (IBM, not so much), Office is fine. Windows 10 is doing better than expected.

As for tablets, MS was into tablets long before Apple was. Apple had the first successful tablet. The reality is Tablets aren't doing that well for Apple. As for AWS vs Azure, it's early in that game and there is room for more than one player. Hell, I don't want a single player in any market.
 
I did intentionally. One or a few quarterly reports can't reverse a decade plus of stagnant, cyclical market cap fluctuations and lack of technological innovations. They are still largely running on previous success inertia imo.
 
I do believe that 2016 will be the year of Linux. I'm converting my HTPC from Windows 10 to Mint 17.2 over the weekend.
 
MSFT's Azure infrastructure is based on Linux. That's telling and a big FAIL on their OS prowess.
 
Let's all listen to someone which has no understanding about software or hardware.
The funny thing is he does not know anything about basketball either. Hence he bought the Clippers :).
At the wrong time as well ...
 
nomas said:
I did intentionally. One or a few quarterly reports can't reverse a decade plus of stagnant, cyclical market cap fluctuations and lack of technological innovations. They are still largely running on previous success inertia imo.
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Last year (FY 15) was a bad year, but that year aside, EPS is roughly double what it was 10 years ago. I wouldn't call that stagnant. It's not a high flying growth stock, but on fumes alone they were doing well. If this turnaround happens and a lot of smart people think it will, they're going to become competitive again. Regardless, it's silly to say that you can't compete in another companies space. If that was the case, we'd have one company making toothpaste. One company making cars and companies like Hyundai wouldn't exist, because they came to the party too late.

MS isn't IBM, but they're doing better in the space that IBM is trying to move into (cloud) than IBM is. We'll see what happens. I don't know if they'll pull it off or not (if I did, I'd either buy tons of MS or I'd short it like crazy), but as of now, they're looking good, and I fully expect the next few years to be very good.
 
nilepez said:
As for tablets, MS was into tablets long before Apple was. Apple had the first successful tablet. The reality is Tablets aren't doing that well for Apple. As for AWS vs Azure, it's early in that game and there is room for more than one player. Hell, I don't want a single player in any market.
Click to expand...

Tablets in general and the iPad specifically have had some rough times recently. Of course the iPad is still by far the best selling tablet and extremely profitable for Apple but there's been significant contraction in their sales. Thus the iPad Pro, which is meant to help boost margins and nab some of the small but rapidly growing 2 in 1 market.

When it comes to saying stupid things, Ballmer has had some company. Three years ago the idea of Windows 8 and hybrid devices like the Surface line, while not anywhere new at the time, they really were just revisions of the 2002 era Tablet PC, did seem not very smart to a lot of people. Tim Cook comments about Windows 8 being a "toaster-fridge" lately have been coming back to bite him a bit when Apple released the iPad Pro with a keyboard cover and pen, I mean pencil, that are key elements of the "toaster-fridge" concept he didn't think had much of chance.

It will be interesting to see how Apple responds to the emergence of 2 in 1 devices. They too may hit a brick wall like tablets but considering that they are far from a new idea and that the software and hardware for such devices has come a long way, I think they will see continued growth for a good while to come. Apple has been resistant to do an OS X hybrid device and I don't think iOS, without a lot of radical changes, is really up to the task for 2 in 1 devices. Some kind of convergence between iOS and OS X I think will have to come if 2 in 1s hit critical mass.
 
nomas said:
MSFT's Azure infrastructure is based on Linux. That's telling and a big FAIL on their OS prowess.
Click to expand...

Or they are just being smart. Instead of spending millions developing and maintaining a cloud os, they can use one currently available for free.

It sounds like Microsoft is starting to make good decisions. They are doing a better job of embracing hardware and may stop abusing the PC gaming market to try and make their console look better.

Granted it's early on these fronts and they have torched good projects in the past.
 
nomas said:
MSFT's Azure infrastructure is based on Linux. That's telling and a big FAIL on their OS prowess.
Click to expand...

Azure isn't based on any one thing. It's a collection of capabilities that uses both Windows and Linux which very much mirrors enterprises these days that have both Windows and Linux on premises.
 
heatlesssun said:
It will be interesting to see how Apple responds to the emergence of 2 in 1 devices. They too may hit a brick wall like tablets but considering that they are far from a new idea and that the software and hardware for such devices has come a long way, I think they will see continued growth for a good while to come. Apple has been resistant to do an OS X hybrid device and I don't think iOS, without a lot of radical changes, is really up to the task for 2 in 1 devices. Some kind of convergence between iOS and OS X I think will have to come if 2 in 1s hit critical mass.
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My brother got an iMac recently and the icons all look like they were pulled from iOS (or maybe iOS pulled them from OS X), so I guess they could easily do it form a UI perspective. I'm less certain about merging the actual code like MS has.

If MSFT pulls off One OS many devices, Ballmer and Synofsky will be vindicated for the general goal of Windows 8....of course it doesn't look like the Phone side will ever do well. To some degree it's a case of nobody wants to develop for it, because nobody uses the phone and nobody wants to get the phone, because it doesn't have the apps. But maybe they'll develop apps for the larger devices which means there's apps for the phone. Time will tell..I'm not giving up my iPhone for now ;)
 
heatlesssun said:
It will be interesting to see how Apple responds to the emergence of 2 in 1 devices.
Click to expand...

They're already here, and have been there almost since day one. Look at people who use a tablet in public, including the iPad. 90% of them use a keyboard, a lot with a pen or mouse. They found out their $500-600 device was inferior to a computer, so poured more money into crappy over priced addon products. All a "2 in 1" device is a crappy tablet with a crappy keyboard and pen bundled together. That is what the Surface Book is. Another crappy tablet which strives to be a laptop because no one in their right mind finds the tablet only mode useful for anything but watching cat youtube videos on the go.

And the best part? These devices cost just about the same as a normal laptop yet are still inferior for 95% of the users. The only possible need for the tablet mode are things like sign in and patient tracking in a hospital where nurses are constantly moving around. For consumers, the tablet mode is essentially useless.

The market has spoken and Microsoft and Apple are just catching up, throwing out new marketing terms to sell the same crap with more crap bundled together as if it were something new.
 
nilepez said:
My brother got an iMac recently and the icons all look like they were pulled from iOS (or maybe iOS pulled them from OS X), so I guess they could easily do it form a UI perspective. I'm less certain about merging the actual code like MS has.

If MSFT pulls off One OS many devices, Ballmer and Synofsky will be vindicated for the general goal of Windows 8....of course it doesn't look like the Phone side will ever do well. To some degree it's a case of nobody wants to develop for it, because nobody uses the phone and nobody wants to get the phone, because it doesn't have the apps. But maybe they'll develop apps for the larger devices which means there's apps for the phone. Time will tell..I'm not giving up my iPhone for now ;)
Click to expand...

Microsoft is never going to be big in phones. I don't think they'll exit the market entirely anytime soon because they zillions tied up in a "One Windows" strategy which mobile baked in now. Ballmer obviously screwed up in the phone space badly and he's admitted that to some degree by saying that issues with Vista distracted him and Microsoft from phones. Not exactly a mea culpa but in the neighborhood.

I've long been a fan of hybrid PCs. It's been a long and still not financially successful road overall in that space for Microsoft but I do think the idea is finally starting to catch on. Of course there are many that would love for Microsoft to just make plain old laptops, just really nice, MacBook nice, for less money. The only thing I see that could possibly keep Microsoft afloat as at best a bit player in phones would be x86 Surface Phones. According to Paul Thurrott, Microsoft and Intel are working on such a thing for launch next year. The do all productivity mantra is all that Microsoft really has lest as a weapon in mobile. It seems to be doing ok with tablets. I doubt it will have much success in phones but it will be interesting.
 
Flogger23m said:
They're already here, and have been there almost since day one. Look at people who use a tablet in public, including the iPad. 90% of them use a keyboard, a lot with a pen or mouse. They found out their $500-600 device was inferior to a computer, so poured more money into crappy over priced addon products. All a "2 in 1" device is a crappy tablet with a crappy keyboard and pen bundled together. That is what the Surface Book is. Another crappy tablet which strives to be a laptop because no one in their right mind finds the tablet only mode useful for anything but watching cat youtube videos on the go.
Click to expand...

The Surface Book is a hybrid laptop. It has it's flaws from what I've read from some folks, the main issue being its top heaviness. As a tablet, it's blowing many way due to it's sheet size, light weight at 1.6 lbs. for a 13.5" diagonal screen which apparently is as good as it gets. The issue with the tablet section is the short battery life that's been reported between 2.5 to 4.5 hours from what I've read. The device as a whole is getting between 9 to 15 hours of battery life from the same reports with most being around the 12 hours that Microsoft is stating for Surface Book battery life.

Flogger23m said:
And the best part? These devices cost just about the same as a normal laptop yet are still inferior for 95% of the users. The only possible need for the tablet mode are things like sign in and patient tracking in a hospital where nurses are constantly moving around. For consumers, the tablet mode is essentially useless.
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I use my tablets daily for considerably more than this.
 
heatlesssun said:
The Surface Book is a hybrid laptop.
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Which is just a new marketing term for the same old tablets from yesteryear. The only difference with a "hybird laptop" is that they include the accessories in the same box.

heatlesssun said:
for a 13.5" diagonal screen which apparently is as good as it gets
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Which defeats the whole purpose of a tablet. If you're carrying around a 14" screen, keyboard and mouse you may as well carry a laptop which offers a superior screen stand and balance. Which again leads into my other point: tablets were gimmicks for the typical consumer, hence the shift back to laptops or over priced accessories to make tablets into shoddy laptops.

There really is zero reason to own a Surface Book or Ipad Pro when they're the size and weight of comparable laptops because 90% of the time they won't be used in the tablet mode.
 
Flogger23m said:
They're already here, and have been there almost since day one. Look at people who use a tablet in public, including the iPad. 90% of them use a keyboard, a lot with a pen or mouse.
Click to expand...

I'll take "statistics made up on the spot" for $100, Alex.
 
Flogger23m said:
Which is just a new marketing term for the same old tablets from yesteryear. The only difference with a "hybird laptop" is that they include the accessories in the same box.



Which defeats the whole purpose of a tablet. If you're carrying around a 14" screen, keyboard and mouse you may as well carry a laptop which offers a superior screen stand and balance. Which again leads into my other point: tablets were gimmicks for the typical consumer, hence the shift back to laptops or over priced accessories to make tablets into shoddy laptops.

There really is zero reason to own a Surface Book or Ipad Pro when they're the size and weight of comparable laptops because 90% of the time they won't be used in the tablet mode.
Click to expand...

heatlesssun just said it weight 1.5 pounds. The new xps 13 weighs roughly 2 1/3 times as much (3.7 pounds).

I'm not on the convertable bandwagon, but 1.5 pounds is a lot lighter than an already light laptop.
 
Flogger23m said:
Which is just a new marketing term for the same old tablets from yesteryear. The only difference with a "hybird laptop" is that they include the accessories in the same box.
Click to expand...

The terms hybrid laptop and convertible laptop are old terminology that predate the existence on iOS and Android.

Flogger23m said:
Which defeats the whole purpose of a tablet. If you're carrying around a 14" screen, keyboard and mouse you may as well carry a laptop which offers a superior screen stand and balance. Which again leads into my other point: tablets were gimmicks for the typical consumer, hence the shift back to laptops or over priced accessories to make tablets into shoddy laptops.
Click to expand...

The Surface Book's screen is as good as it gets on anything from every single review I've read. Better balance, sure. In a 13" ultrabook design separating the CPU and GPU is extremely cleaver because of thermal issues. It's almost a sure thing that others will copy that idea to boost performance even with conventional notebooks and even reverse the idea, put the GPU in the screen and everything in the base.

Flogger23m said:
There really is zero reason to own a Surface Book or Ipad Pro when they're the size and weight of comparable laptops because 90% of the time they won't be used in the tablet mode.
Click to expand...

Except for the people that buy them and will use them for more than 90% as conventional laptops. If all wants is a conventional laptop I've long said that convertible designs aren't for those people. But there are those that will write and draw and touch and use the clipboard mode or the drawing mode more than 10% of the time.
 
nilepez said:
heatlesssun just said it weight 1.5 pounds. The new xps 13 weighs roughly 2 1/3 times as much (3.7 pounds).

I'm not on the convertable bandwagon, but 1.5 pounds is a lot lighter than an already light laptop.
Click to expand...

The tablet section of the Surface Book is listed at 1.6 pounds. In the reviews I've read the tablet section is very impressive due to the top of the line screen, weight and performance. It falls very flat in the area of battery life however as only and 25% of the Surface Books battery is in the tablet section with reviews coming in between 2.5 and 4.5 hours. Not sure why such a large variance but on low battery life devices that's not uncommon as the tasks being tested can vary greatly in power demands.

This and the top heaviness are the biggest flaws I've seen mentioned of the SB. In comparison to all that this device is about they aren't necessarily huge for those that actually would use a hybrid device for what it is.
 
Flogger23m said:
They're already here, and have been there almost since day one. Look at people who use a tablet in public, including the iPad. 90% of them use a keyboard, a lot with a pen or mouse. They found out their $500-600 device was inferior to a computer, so poured more money into crappy over priced addon products. All a "2 in 1" device is a crappy tablet with a crappy keyboard and pen bundled together. That is what the Surface Book is. Another crappy tablet which strives to be a laptop because no one in their right mind finds the tablet only mode useful for anything but watching cat youtube videos on the go.
Click to expand...
That's what 2-in-1 devices used to be.

Now they are large beautiful tablets fully capable of performing any day to day tasks asked of a laptop by typical users...with a mediocre keyboard and excellent pen. Ultrabooks and 2-in-1 devices like the Surface are where most of the improvements Intel has made in efficiency over the last 5-8 years are being realized.

And the best part? These devices cost just about the same as a normal laptop yet are still inferior for 95% of the users. The only possible need for the tablet mode are things like sign in and patient tracking in a hospital where nurses are constantly moving around. For consumers, the tablet mode is essentially useless.

The market has spoken and Microsoft and Apple are just catching up, throwing out new marketing terms to sell the same crap with more crap bundled together as if it were something new.
Click to expand...
Tablets are great for media consumption. Aside from writing the odd email and facebook post, 95% of users* are consuming vastly more content than they are producing and don't need a keyboard to read buzzfeed, watch netflix and browse amazon.


*statistics from same source as quoted post - a deep pile of BS.
 
DukenukemX said:
I do believe that 2016 will be the year of Linux. I'm converting my HTPC from Windows 10 to Mint 17.2 over the weekend.
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Funny you say this.

The more shitty half-assed apps I try for my phone, the more I ssh into a real PC to get shit done. I just wish * was easier to get to on my phone's keyboard. I have a :) emoji key, but I have to go thru 2 alternate keyboard layers to get *.
 
Kueller said:
That's what 2-in-1 devices used to be.

Now they are large beautiful tablets fully capable of performing any day to day tasks asked of a laptop by typical users...with a mediocre keyboard and excellent pen. Ultrabooks and 2-in-1 devices like the Surface are where most of the improvements Intel has made in efficiency over the last 5-8 years are being realized.
Click to expand...

Not used, still are. Tablets (and tablets with addon parts) are still terrible at everything they do. I can't stick one in my pocket and they're inferior media consumption devices. Save for small niches in a working environment they're always be second place. They aren't nearly as mobile as a smart phone, yet have still have relatively tiny screens, awful stands and horrid speakers. No one in their right mind will use a tablet over their TV unless they're on the go. And in most of those instances a phone is far more convenient.

If you're actually using a 2 in 1 for an extended period you'll be wishing it was all integrated.

Kueller said:
Tablets are great for media consumption.
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Now that is a massive pile of steaming shit. Again, in the home there are better alternatives and out and about there are better alternatives aside from some niches like long plane rides.
 
Flogger23m said:
Not used, still are. Tablets (and tablets with addon parts) are still terrible at everything they do. I can't stick one in my pocket and they're inferior media consumption devices. Save for small niches in a working environment they're always be second place. They aren't nearly as mobile as a smart phone, yet have still have relatively tiny screens, awful stands and horrid speakers. No one in their right mind will use a tablet over their TV unless they're on the go. And in most of those instances a phone is far more convenient.

If you're actually using a 2 in 1 for an extended period you'll be wishing it was all integrated.
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You compare a 2-in-1 to a cell phone for portability and in the very next sentence to a TV for screen size. You appear to be misunderstanding which 2 devices are supposed to be getting merged.
Spoiler alert: It's a Laptop and a Tablet.
I actually like the SP3/4 screen (3:2 ftw) and stand.

Now that is a massive pile of steaming shit. Again, in the home there are better alternatives and out and about there are better alternatives aside from some niches like long plane rides.
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No one said it was an "All your electronics in 1 device".
The camera doesn't compare to my DLSR!
The vacuum function is worthless!
Where's the coffee maker?
Why doesn't it steam rice?
Will it blend?
 
nomas said:
MSFT's Azure infrastructure is based on Linux. That's telling and a big FAIL on their OS prowess.
Click to expand...

You cannot be serious. :confused:
So basically the Earth rotates because of Linux?

Its that stupid console that keep desktop adoption at bay I guess.
I 've purchased Zorin twice (Just to pass some money on the second time), used it on one PC for a while, but the PC got fried.. I am thinking 2016 will be the year of linux for me with a new AMD-Based PC.
 
heatlesssun said:
Azure isn't based on any one thing. It's a collection of capabilities that uses both Windows and Linux which very much mirrors enterprises these days that have both Windows and Linux on premises.
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Still a sad statement.
I'ts like Ford motor company buying fleets of Chevys.
Then again, yeah, if the Chevys were 'free' so I guess it is somewhat different.
So MS says: ask not what we can do for the computer world, but what can the computer world can do for us.. so we can save and make MORE billions.
How about making Linux simplified to windows-7 level and release it for free?
I mean since they are making billions off the ground-work of people they tried to screw over.
 
jfreund said:
Surface RT showed Ballmer's grasp of the hardware landscape.
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Surface RT was a very good product at the time. The ultra low power and cheap Intel x86's were not yet on the market, so at the time Windows RT had promise. You got the efficiency of ChromeOS, but the usability of Windows core services.

But the introduction of cheap, but good, Intel x86 processors sealed the deal. I bought a $60 and $100 tablet from Microcenter, that while not as good quality, offered much more functionality and compatibility.

And that coupled with Microsoft providing almost no commitment to Windows RT. I tried to make it work for me. But Microsoft didn't even include a Visual Basic for Applications in the Office suite, which neutered all the Office apps to doing just basic functionality (no macro support basically).

The Surface RT is still the nicest portable device I have ever owned, from a quality perspective.
 
Uvaman said:
You cannot be serious. :confused:
So basically the Earth rotates because of Linux?

Its that stupid console that keep desktop adoption at bay I guess.
I 've purchased Zorin twice (Just to pass some money on the second time), used it on one PC for a while, but the PC got fried.. I am thinking 2016 will be the year of linux for me with a new AMD-Based PC.
Click to expand...

I didn't say the world revolves around Linux in this instance. You are leading to it instead.

I am merely saying, for a company that started its life as an "OS" company and still deriving its success/dominance from it, having to resort to Linux to power its cloud offering is a failure of its core prowess. I agree with you. It is like Ford relying on a fleet of Chevys. :D
 
nomas said:
I didn't say the world revolves around Linux in this instance. You are leading to it instead.

I am merely saying, for a company that started its life as an "OS" company and still deriving its success/dominance from it, having to resort to Linux to power its cloud offering is a failure of its core prowess. I agree with you. It is like Ford relying on a fleet of Chevys. :D
Click to expand...

This doesn't make sense. So unless every machine in the world runs Windows then Microsoft failed? Linux is used a lot on servers, so is Windows though not as much for one reason it is not free. Server environments running server apps is an area where the Linux model works well. The desktop not so much.
 
I hate to be the one to bring it to you but wants to work anywhere, they just have to to survive the economy.

Noone wants to be a corporate robot out of their own free will, regardless of how well they're treated.
 
heatlesssun said:
This doesn't make sense. So unless every machine in the world runs Windows then Microsoft failed? Linux is used a lot on servers, so is Windows though not as much for one reason it is not free. Server environments running server apps is an area where the Linux model works well. The desktop not so much.
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No, not every machine. That's your exaggeration. When MSFT has to rely on a 3rd party OS to power their cloud offering when they have their own server OS with billions of R&D dollars, they have acknowledged their own server's OS failure to scale and to evolve to the necessary new infrastructure model. That's a failure of their OS expertise, prowess, and R&D. That's all... :)
 
nomas said:
No, not every machine. That's your exaggeration. When MSFT has to rely on a 3rd party OS to power their cloud offering when they have their own server OS with billions of R&D dollars, they have acknowledged their own server's OS failure to scale and to evolve to the necessary new infrastructure model. That's a failure of their OS expertise, prowess, and R&D. That's all... :)
Click to expand...

You're not explaining it correctly. SQL Server Azure for instance isn't powered by Linux. Linux is just another option in Azure that matches common onsite technologies used in the enterprise.
 
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