R9 380x Allegedly Surfaces

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Supposedly leaked shots of an XFX R9 380x - http://www.expreview.com/42897.html

Will be fun speculating on what the configuration is.

What is interesting with Tonga is the die shot supposedly shows what looks like 32 CUs and 6 memory controllers.

However the current fuller implementation, m295x, uses the full 32 CUs but only 4 memory controllers (which isn't necessarily surprising given the space and power constrictions of mobile parts).

Tonga as a consumer discrete GPU product, 285/380, have both been 28 CUs and 4 memory controllers.

Unless they go full Tahiti :)o) as the article speculates as a possibility.
 
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The R9 285 at $170, which is sometimes possible with MIR, is a decent enough low end card.

The problem with an R9 380x, if released as a full Tonga, will be pricing.

The R9 380 prices would need to be dropped, which would be a good thing, to slip an R9 380x in there.

Otherwise, you'd be too close to better cards, price-wise. Unless AMD comes out with a really strong games bundle at launch (one of those bundles with 3 quality games), which they didn't do for the other newer cards in the lineup.
 
TaintedSquirrel said:
Tonga in its current form is shit, maybe this one will be competitive. We've been waiting on full tonga for a year.
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I disagree. I upgraded a machine from an R9-270x (HD7870 rebadge?) to an r9-285 and the performance gains were palpable. It runs everything in 1080p great, and pretty much blows the 750Ti out of the water. Considering I scored it for $130, I'd say that's pretty competitive. :)
 
Low balling the price on this new card would be an awesome move by AMD for a mass market card.
 
Yakk said:
Low balling the price on this new card would be an awesome move by AMD for a mass market card.
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They're not going to do that.

The R9 390 is $330. The R9 380 4GB is $230. PLENTY of room for a bridge card in that price gap! OR it could replace the 4GB 380 options at a slightly higher price.

The 384-bit memory is complete BS perpetuated by rumor sites. The whole reason they added delta color compression is so they could reduce the build cost by having 2 less memory chips, and a less complex PCB!
 
defaultluser said:
They're not going to do that.

The R9 390 is $330. The R9 380 4GB is $230. PLENTY of room for a bridge card in that price gap! OR it could replace the 4GB 380 options at a slightly higher price.

The 384-bit memory is complete BS perpetuated by rumor sites. The whole reason they added delta color compression is so they could reduce the build cost by having 2 less memory chips, and a less complex PCB!
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I saw that price gap, and it may well be. Why I say low balling the 380x would be good is to move inventory. AMD knows the Fury line is a low volume line of products and they do need revenue so this would be a good opportunity along with a games bundle.

And I'd be very surprised if it was anything but 256-bit.
 
So the fans are hot-swappable, good on them.

I see a lot of people complaining about RMA's for a bad fan. This will make it easier to order a new fan or they send you a new one in the mail and you swap it out yourself.
 
Steve, here's what the site says. I can read it.

-R9 380X is out in the wild, and is now in volume production.
-It's hard to confirm the anonymous source claim thatthis really is a R9 380X according to the site.
-There's a possibility that 380X is just a rebranded 280X, or a Tonga core with 384-bit bandwitdh and 2028 stream processors.
 
Sorry. meant to say that anonymous source claims that the 380x is in volume production.
 
If it is 256-bit (4 GB ram), I could see $250 at MOST. If they made it 384 bit (6 GB), this card would be a beast for the $250-$275 range, especially crossfired. It would be nice to see strong 4k gaming for $500. With 2 6-pin connectors, it seems unlikely though.
 
I just wish they look more into faster GPU but less heat. Soon high end GPU cannot run w/o water cooling.
 
The main speculation regarding Tonga is what the two structures on the right side are for -

Q5MVBsz.jpg

MDboyz said:
I just wish they look more into faster GPU but less heat. Soon high end GPU cannot run w/o water cooling.
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Neither AMD or Nvidia significantly increased their power consumption ceilings for the last round of releases (GM200 and Fiji).
 
HBM must be really expensive or super low yields for AMD, this was a perfect opportunity to release a mid-range fiji part.
 
cocdod said:
HBM must be really expensive or super low yields for AMD
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I suspect a little of both. R&D is expensive, and AMD doesn't have the dough to sling around that Intel does, or Nvidia. It seems like they went "all in" on HBM and got pretty burned by that decision :(
 
If this is, in fact, an m295x with increased clocks (which is what I'm guessing it is), that's promising even with only 256-bit bandwidth. It should sit very nicely in the $250-300 range competing with and likely will sit squarely between GTX 960 and 970 (but not power efficiency).

Highly doubtful this is a 384-bit card for several reasons.
 
Up to $300 for a 256-bit Tonga? An R9 390 is in the $310 range and would destroy this card. What the heck is an m295x anyway?? If it is only 256-bit, it will not be faster than the Tahiti-based 280x, which can be purchased for much lower.
 
cocdod said:
HBM must be really expensive or super low yields for AMD, this was a perfect opportunity to release a mid-range fiji part.
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Wait, what are you smoking? HBM wasn't available when Tonga was released last September.

People pretend like HBM is going to cure cancer or something. I highly doubt they made it compatible with HBM, since there's plenty of bandwidth in GDDR5 to feed a chip like Tonga. I mean, Nvidia can compete with HALF the memory bus width, so Tonga by comparison is practically SWIMMING in bandwidth :rolleyes:

You might as well get used to GDDR5 in mid-range parts for the next couple years. Cost and availability will limit the uptake of this new HBM gem.

And no, they won't charge $300 for the 380X. They can price it comfortably enough at $260, since it's only slightly faster than the 280 4GB they currently sell for $230. Nvidia has a similar price gap of ~$30 between the GTX 950 and 2GB 960, and that seems to be a large enough price gap to justify the different SKUs, despite only having 10% performance difference!
 
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Is this thread a competition on who can say the stupidest thing? I won't call anyone out, but good Lord!
 
Nihilus1 said:
Is this thread a competition on who can say the stupidest thing? I won't call anyone out, but good Lord!
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I don't know what's worse, Tonga or the fact that an overclocked cut Tonga (R9 380) is enough to trump the GTX 960. They're both terrible. The GPUs they replaced (280X & 770) are far superior.
If the 380X can compete with the base 290 around $250 then it's got a place on the market.
 
Well hopefully [H] will get a review sample. Unless of course, we are not the target audience...
 
defaultluser said:
Wait, what are you smoking? HBM wasn't available when Tonga was released last September.

People pretend like HBM is going to cure cancer or something. I highly doubt they made it compatible with HBM, since there's plenty of bandwidth in GDDR5 to feed a chip like Tonga. I mean, Nvidia can compete with HALF the memory bus width, so Tonga by comparison is practically SWIMMING in bandwidth :rolleyes:

You might as well get used to GDDR5 in mid-range parts for the next couple years. Cost and availability will limit the uptake of this new HBM gem.

And no, they won't charge $300 for the 380X. They can price it comfortably enough at $260, since it's only slightly faster than the 280 4GB they currently sell for $230. Nvidia has a similar price gap of ~$30 between the GTX 950 and 2GB 960, and that seems to be a large enough price gap to justify the different SKUs, despite only having 10% performance difference!
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Why would it matter if HBM wasn't available when tonga was originally released? The point is that they shouldn't continue rebranding this inefficient tech, especially when they need to fab all these new chips as full tonga was never released when it was new.

Fiji with 2gb of HBM and half the stream processors of a fury x would be a better fit here than full tonga.
 
cocdod said:
Why would it matter if HBM wasn't available when tonga was originally released? The point is that they shouldn't continue rebranding this inefficient tech, especially when they need to fab all these new chips as full tonga was never released when it was new.

Fiji with 2gb of HBM and half the stream processors of a fury x would be a better fit here than full tonga.
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HBM is probably cost prohibitive.
 
trandoanhung1991 said:
HBM is probably cost prohibitive.
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I read earlier that AMD has to ship every Fiji GPU to Hynix (Taiwan --> Korea ?) for HBM/Interposer to be applied. Pretty crazy.
The lack of available cards on the market suggests a supply problem more than anything. 980 Ti's are everywhere; same die size as Fiji. Shouldn't be any production problems.
 
TaintedSquirrel said:
I read earlier that AMD has to ship every Fiji GPU to Hynix (Taiwan --> Korea ?) for HBM/Interposer to be applied. Pretty crazy.
The lack of available cards on the market suggests a supply problem more than anything. 980 Ti's are everywhere; same die size as Fiji. Shouldn't be any production problems.
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Die size is one thing. Fury cards need a good die, good HBM stacks, good interposers and good gluing of those together. The die's should be fine since that's a a well known production line. The interposers are supposed to be very simple and AMD started up a contract with UMC for extra supply recently so that's probably not the issue. The HBM is probably the pain point as it comes from one smaller semiconductor company. The mixing of everything together might also be an issue. Miss align something and you throw everything out.
 
cocdod said:
Why would it matter if HBM wasn't available when tonga was originally released? The point is that they shouldn't continue rebranding this inefficient tech, especially when they need to fab all these new chips as full tonga was never released when it was new.

Fiji with 2gb of HBM and half the stream processors of a fury x would be a better fit here than full tonga.
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Tonga *IS* half of a Fury! It was designed to be cheaper to make. Just like the GTX 960 core is half a GTX 980 - it was designed that way to be cheaper to make!

There's no guarantee that Tonga supports HBM natively, that was my whole point. I doubt it was in the silicon 12 months before HBM was due to be available. Especially when it's more expensive when there's only one smaller supplier available (versus half a dozen huge suppliers for GDDR5).

I have not read any rumors pertaining To HBM in Tonga. Instead, the rumors are universally concentrated on 384-bit GDDR5 memory controllers. If you can show me even one rumor about Tonga and HBM from a major site, then I'll back your logic :D

But otherwise can you accept that AMD saved itself some money by using GDDR5 for the mid-range targeted Half-Fiji Tonga chip?

I'm pretty sure AMD is smart enough to decouple the rest of the GPU architecture from the memory controllers, making it easy to mix. After all, this is what granted us the DDR3 + SRAM Xbox One, and the GDDR5 memory of the PS4 based on the exact same Jaguar silicon :D
 
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defaultluser said:
I have not read any rumors pertaining To HBM in Tonga. Instead, the rumors are universally concentrated on 384-bit GDDR5 memory controllers. If you can show me even one rumor about Tonga and HBM from a major site, then I'll back your logic :D

I'm pretty sure AMD is smart enough to decouple the rest of the GPU architecture from the memory controllers, making it easy to mix. After all, this is what granted us the DDR3 + SRAM Xbox One, and the GDDR5 memory of the PS4 based on the exact same Jaguar silicon :D
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Can we stop with the HBM crap - it is not going to be on this card. What an idiotic notion! The entire PCB layout for card accompanying HBM is different. Why would AMD put so much effort in developing a card, and then 'slipping it into the market' way after all the other releases?? Please stop with this nonsense - this site is turning into Tom's. As for PS4/XB1 analogy, those are MASS produced items. Also, the layout between the DDR3 and GDDR5 on a PCB would not be that much different.


This card will launch between 2 extremes: $250 for a 384-bit, which would be a great deal or $275 for 256-bit, which would be a terrible deal. Any other combination will be an ok deal.
 
Nihilus1 said:
Can we stop with the HBM crap - it is not going to be on this card. What an idiotic notion! The entire PCB layout for card accompanying HBM is different. Why would AMD put so much effort in developing a card, and then 'slipping it into the market' way after all the other releases?? Please stop with this nonsense - this site is turning into Tom's. As for PS4/XB1 analogy, those are MASS produced items. Also, the layout between the DDR3 and GDDR5 on a PCB would not be that much different.


This card will launch between 2 extremes: $250 for a 384-bit, which would be a great deal or $275 for 256-bit, which would be a terrible deal. Any other combination will be an ok deal.
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I wasn't trying to imply Tonga would have HBM, I was trying to convince cocdod that it would be GDDR5. I used logic to make the case that even though Fiji is 2x Tonga, it doesn't imply that they share the same memory controller. The Jaguar example utilizing multiple memory controllers was just me reasoning that Fiji and Tonga are likely using COMPLETELY DIFFERENT memory controllers.

I don't see how you read my post differently. We're on the same page (380X = Tonga XT, GDDR5, $250-275) :D
 
defaultluser said:
Tonga *IS* half of a Fury! It was designed to be cheaper to make. Just like the GTX 960 core is half a GTX 980 - it was designed that way to be cheaper to make!

There's no guarantee that Tonga supports HBM natively, that was my whole point. I doubt it was in the silicon 12 months before HBM was due to be available. Especially when it's more expensive when there's only one smaller supplier available (versus half a dozen huge suppliers for GDDR5).

I have not read any rumors pertaining To HBM in Tonga. Instead, the rumors are universally concentrated on 384-bit GDDR5 memory controllers. If you can show me even one rumor about Tonga and HBM from a major site, then I'll back your logic :D

But otherwise can you accept that AMD saved itself some money by using GDDR5 for the mid-range targeted Half-Fiji Tonga chip?

I'm pretty sure AMD is smart enough to decouple the rest of the GPU architecture from the memory controllers, making it easy to mix. After all, this is what granted us the DDR3 + SRAM Xbox One, and the GDDR5 memory of the PS4 based on the exact same Jaguar silicon :D
Click to expand...

I'm not sure why you think I'm still talking about tonga - I'm talking about fiji. Has AMD reprogrammed your brain to expect rebrands and outdated architectures in lieu of new hardware or something?

And yeah, I know it's going to have GDDR5. This was never the debate, I'm just disappointed that AMD sunk all that money into developing HBM then can't even get a full lineup of cards using HBM and their new architecture (fiji) out the door.
 
cocdod said:
I'm not sure why you think I'm still talking about tonga - I'm talking about fiji. Has AMD reprogrammed your brain to expect rebrands and outdated architectures in lieu of new hardware or something?

And yeah, I know it's going to have GDDR5. This was never the debate, I'm just disappointed that AMD sunk all that money into developing HBM then can't even get a full lineup of cards using HBM and their new architecture (fiji) out the door.
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Dude, I have two words for you about new memory technologies and how they usually start at the top, and make their way into the mainstream in the next few years.

HD 4870.
 
@defaultuser - my bad, I was just dumbfounded about the HBM talk on here.

defaultluser said:
Dude, I have two words for you about new memory technologies and how they usually start at the top, and make their way into the mainstream in the next few years.

HD 4870.
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Exactly, we won't see HBM on mainstream until at least the 4xx series and probably later than that. Hell, look how long DDR3 floated around and the jump in development and cost from GDDR5 to HBM is a lot larger than that of DDR3 to GDDR5.
 
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