Math Shows That Fewer Roads Lead To Less Traffic Congestion

Megalith

Megalith

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Ever heard of Braess' paradox? Apparently, removing a road in some instances could actually improve traffic.

In 1968, maths thinker Dietrich Braess even proved this: "an extension of a road network by an additional road can cause a redistribution of the flow in such a way that the travel time increases." It's called the Braess paradox, and has implications well beyond roads.
 
The examples given at the end are flawed. As what happened more recently with "Carmageddon" in Los Angeles, given advanced warning of a major traffic interruption, closing the freeway didn't fix congestion, it just kept people many people off the roads to avoid it. In S. Korea, traffic shifted significantly to buses and subway, and traffic flow in the adjacent downtown streets were significantly altered. The effects of closing one travel section were partially compensated for vehicle traffic in major ways -- it didn't fix itself just by closing the roadways.

Both articles kind of miss the point addressed by the paradox. It not merely closing routes that improve traffic, since closing a random one may or may not help, but adjusting flow (which municipalities generally do by adjusting signal timings) and closing off through traffic (like some streets do during rush hour) can help. In a city it's not really possible to close off more than short sections of streets since people still need to get there conveniently.
 
Easy example, assuming a moderate traffic highway, if you place exits every 1/2 mile on a 4 lane highway as opposed to 1.5-2 mile exits, traffic will slow down because of people merging, changing lanes more often and slowing everything down. On the other hand traffic will flow faster if exits are far and few in between, same with non-highway roads.
 
My city has been using these bullshit arguments to get traffic lanes converted to bike lanes.
 
need a damn plague to alleviate traffic congestion and pretty much everything else!
 
If you guys think traffic is bad you should move to Tokyo. You will literally take three or four hours to drive 20-25 miles sometimes. I drove about 300 miles through the mountains faster then it takes me to drive to the airport less then 45 miles away.
 
The mathematicians formulas didn't account for the disruptive drivers. A single slow or insecure driver can destroy the traffic flow of a 4-lane highway in just a few seconds.

They should start giving tickets to this kind of drivers.
 
Tengis said:
If you guys think traffic is bad you should move to Tokyo. You will literally take three or four hours to drive 20-25 miles sometimes. I drove about 300 miles through the mountains faster then it takes me to drive to the airport less then 45 miles away.
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Isn't there a great train system there? I just assumed most people avoided driving in Tokyo
 
B00nie said:
The mathematicians formulas didn't account for the disruptive drivers. A single slow or insecure driver can destroy the traffic flow of a 4-lane highway in just a few seconds.

They should start giving tickets to this kind of drivers.
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I think you're referring to TX SUV drivers. They love sitting in the left lane when there's only 2 available and it's almost impossible to get them to move over.
 
B00nie said:
The mathematicians formulas didn't account for the disruptive drivers. A single slow or insecure driver can destroy the traffic flow of a 4-lane highway in just a few seconds.

They should start giving tickets to this kind of drivers.
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Yup, it didn't take long for someone to get upset and try to justify their horribly unsafe driving by blaming the people who acknowledge the posted speed limit and aren't being hormone-fueled raging man-sausages that are busy smoking, drinking, and screaming obscenities at pretty much everyone that happens to not be driving twice the posted speed limit because they have this movie and TV make-believe fantasy that they're in a huge ball-bashy competition with every other irresponsible super-penis that's managed not to have his license revoked or has yet to kill someone trying to walk across a street.
 
Someone convinced politicians in DFW that something nice would happen if they converted ALL the highways to toll roads.

The blue indicates roads that were "just made better". Look at how few there are. Everything else is Toll Roads, Diamond Lans (HOV) or "Express Lanes" (which is where they charge single occupants to use HOV lanes).

COGs-Mobility2035-Map.jpg
 
nilepez said:
I think you're referring to TX SUV drivers. They love sitting in the left lane when there's only 2 available and it's almost impossible to get them to move over.
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In Michigan we pass on the right. I've seen Semis pass little cars on the right for going to slow.
 
Nolan7689 said:
In Michigan we pass on the right. I've seen Semis pass little cars on the right for going to slow.
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In Ohio they merge onto a 65MPH freeway at 35mph and slowly come up to 55-60mph, then move into the center lane (3-lane) or left lane (2-lane).

They also signal turns only in the strictest legal sense. Going down a 55mph back road, they'll throw on the brakes a 1/4 mile before their turn, and the turn signal 1 blink before they turn. If you knew enough to put on the brakes, you knew you were going to turn...Why not let those of use behind know too?

I've started using my horn a lot more lately. For years I didn't touch the thing. Now, I've come to the conclusion people can't improve if they don't know they're doing something wrong.
 
CreepyUncleGoogle said:
Yup, it didn't take long for someone to get upset and try to justify their horribly unsafe driving by blaming the people who acknowledge the posted speed limit and aren't being hormone-fueled raging man-sausages that are busy smoking, drinking, and screaming obscenities at pretty much everyone that happens to not be driving twice the posted speed limit because they have this movie and TV make-believe fantasy that they're in a huge ball-bashy competition with every other irresponsible super-penis that's managed not to have his license revoked or has yet to kill someone trying to walk across a street.
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In most states, the left lane is for passing. Doesn't matter if you're driving the speed limit or not, it's not the place for you to hang out.
 
Nolan7689 said:
In Michigan we pass on the right. I've seen Semis pass little cars on the right for going to slow.
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Everyone does that, but compared to most states, TX seems to have more who hang in the left and it often seems like SUV drivers are the biggest offenders. I've seen them finally pull over to let someone pass and then immediately pull back in to the left lane.

IMO, it's worse if you're an SUV, because everyone not in a truck or SUV can't tell that nobody is in front of you.
 
nilepez said:
In most states, the left lane is for passing. Doesn't matter if you're driving the speed limit or not, it's not the place for you to hang out.
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Of course not, but you still can't legally go faster than whatever the speed limit is no matter what lane you're in so you really should only be in that lane if someone in one of the right ones is going lower than the posted speed limit (which they should do under not ideal conditions like in rain, snow, ice, after sunset, driving into blinding sun or whatever else). The speed limit is the maximum allowed speed and going a little slower than it is perfectly okay. It's people that are in a hurry or who have testosterone and can't control themselves that are really to blame for unsafe conditions, accidents, bad traffic flow, and pretty much everything else that's wrong with trying to go someplace safely.
 
I think this should be, less traffic lights leads to less congestion. I swear morons run the traffic engineering departments and light timings.
 
CreepyUncleGoogle said:
Of course not, but you still can't legally go faster than whatever the speed limit is no matter what lane you're in so you really should only be in that lane if someone in one of the right ones is going lower than the posted speed limit (which they should do under not ideal conditions like in rain, snow, ice, after sunset, driving into blinding sun or whatever else). The speed limit is the maximum allowed speed and going a little slower than it is perfectly okay. It's people that are in a hurry or who have testosterone and can't control themselves that are really to blame for unsafe conditions, accidents, bad traffic flow, and pretty much everything else that's wrong with trying to go someplace safely.
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It is in fact against the law to use the left lane except to pass or avoid disabled vehicles in many states. Such laws are enforced even less often than speed limits, but since you're talking technicalities, someone cruising in the left lane is breaking the law just as much as someone who is speeding.
 
CreepyUncleGoogle said:
Of course not, but you still can't legally go faster than whatever the speed limit is no matter what lane you're in so you really should only be in that lane if someone in one of the right ones is going lower than the posted speed limit (which they should do under not ideal conditions like in rain, snow, ice, after sunset, driving into blinding sun or whatever else). The speed limit is the maximum allowed speed and going a little slower than it is perfectly okay. It's people that are in a hurry or who have testosterone and can't control themselves that are really to blame for unsafe conditions, accidents, bad traffic flow, and pretty much everything else that's wrong with trying to go someplace safely.
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You make the incorrect assumption that the posted speedlimit is always safer than the faster one. Speed limits are often arbitrary. At one time, in TX, on I20, the speed limit was 70, but 65 at night (when there's less traffic). Eventually they changed it to 70 for both and then it went to 75 (and on some highways the limit is up to 85). What changed, you ask? The signs.
 
I was thinking about this the other day. It would also be neat to see towns exclusively use one-way traffic patterning to reduce passenger risk but it is too unconventional for most people.
 
Kueller said:
It is in fact against the law to use the left lane except to pass or avoid disabled vehicles in many states. Such laws are enforced even less often than speed limits, but since you're talking technicalities, someone cruising in the left lane is breaking the law just as much as someone who is speeding.
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Well, if someone has any kinda personal integrity or like personal ethics or stuff like that, they won't break the law regardless of how much or little enforcement there is of that law. Just because a peace officer isn't like right there watching everyone at that very instant isn't and should never be justification to break a minor law or whatever. That's sickening that people even think like that and horrifying of the selfish, awful place that is the southern US.

Okay, ranting aside though I know what you're getting at and I agree that people shouldn't be just driving along in the far left lane. They really should like have a good reason to be there and that means going the posted speed limit (and no more) around slower moving traffic. Anything else and they should be removed from society, removed from the gene pool, and put on Mars or something where they belong.
 
nilepez said:
Everyone does that, but compared to most states, TX seems to have more who hang in the left and it often seems like SUV drivers are the biggest offenders. I've seen them finally pull over to let someone pass and then immediately pull back in to the left lane.
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Probably some of the idiots we have exporting from California. I see them all the time out here.
 
CreepyUncleGoogle said:
Well, if someone has any kinda personal integrity or like personal ethics or stuff like that, they won't break the law regardless of how much or little enforcement there is of that law. Just because a peace officer isn't like right there watching everyone at that very instant isn't and should never be justification to break a minor law or whatever. That's sickening that people even think like that and horrifying of the selfish, awful place that is the southern US.

Okay, ranting aside though I know what you're getting at and I agree that people shouldn't be just driving along in the far left lane. They really should like have a good reason to be there and that means going the posted speed limit (and no more) around slower moving traffic. Anything else and they should be removed from society, removed from the gene pool, and put on Mars or something where they belong.
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I'm born and raised in Florida and I will have to say that when it came to earning my license it was one of the most terrifying experiences as a young adolescent.

My high school driver's education course final weeks had us learning highway merging and traffic and where I lived we had one of the most dangerous highways in the USA. US highway 19. That's when I realized for the first time in my life how many people in this world have a complete disregard for all life and just want to throw away their lives while taking others with them.

The way people, and law enforcement have a complete disregard for the speed limit is absolutely disgusting. And I will admit, I occasionally will go above the speed limit ONLY because the flow of traffic is going that speed.

Usually, around here people do the average 5 above, and even then I don't feel comfortable, but I know if I stick to the speed limit (in clear conditions) that I will be causing a traffic disturbance. But you bet your ass as soon as conditions get even slightly bad, I'm slowing down 10-20mph or more just to make sure I have 5+ seconds of reaction time between me and the car(s) ahead of me (I usually keep 2s+ in normal conditions).

What makes no sense is when law enforcement is mingled in with traffic and they're not even giving a good example, they're doing whatever the flow of traffic is doing! So how do you think how this looks in to the eyes of Joe Blow-That-You-Don't-Know and what he thinks of speed limits?

So all that being said, the worst offenders, in my opinion, are the ones who feel they need to go above and beyond. Traffic is already going past the posted speed limits (5-10mph), they are riding your ass, looking to cause a major pile up and feel the need to drive as if they're on the autobahn during rush hour traffic. Those people, those are the true pieces of shit humans.
 
CreepyUncleGoogle said:
Of course not, but you still can't legally go faster than whatever the speed limit is no matter what lane you're in so you really should only be in that lane if someone in one of the right ones is going lower than the posted speed limit (which they should do under not ideal conditions like in rain, snow, ice, after sunset, driving into blinding sun or whatever else). The speed limit is the maximum allowed speed and going a little slower than it is perfectly okay. It's people that are in a hurry or who have testosterone and can't control themselves that are really to blame for unsafe conditions, accidents, bad traffic flow, and pretty much everything else that's wrong with trying to go someplace safely.
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You should really read up on stuff. In Minnesota you can go faster than the posted speed y to pass. http://stcloud.legalexaminer.com/miscellaneous/can-you-get-a-ticket-for-exceeding-the-speed-limit-when-passing-a-vehicle-on-a-two-lane-road/
 
Makes sense to me. Though one thing that would help is disallowing left turns on major roads, except for where there's a turning lane or advanced green. One of the biggest slowdowns is idiots trying to turn left in places that are practically impossible.
 
CreepyUncleGoogle said:
Yup, it didn't take long for someone to get upset and try to justify their horribly unsafe driving by blaming the people who acknowledge the posted speed limit and aren't being hormone-fueled raging man-sausages that are busy smoking, drinking, and screaming obscenities at pretty much everyone that happens to not be driving twice the posted speed limit because they have this movie and TV make-believe fantasy that they're in a huge ball-bashy competition with every other irresponsible super-penis that's managed not to have his license revoked or has yet to kill someone trying to walk across a street.
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Aaand then you woke up from the pipe dream.

There are many drivers who drive below speed limits and congest junctions with their insecure driving. All it takes is one driver stopping to a highway entrance to lock up a few miles of traffick behind her/him. If the driver would accelerate and join traffic smoothly the lockup would be avoided.

One lockup like that can extend several crossroads back and continue to disrupt traffick because also the following joiners are going to have to join using lower than normal speed. Add to that a few drivers again who do not accelerate their cars to posted speeds immediately after getting their turn to go, momentum is carried even further.

Insecure drivers are the bane of rush hour traffic. They should be ticketed and sent back to driving school. It's a sad fact that people get driving licenses way too easily.
 
nutzo said:
Probably some of the idiots we have exporting from California. I see them all the time out here.
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We have those, but this goes almost back 20 years. I sometimes count the number of texas plates that sit in the right lane vs other states, and they just kill it here. Even when I cross state lines, it's more likely to be TX sitting in the right (and not pulling over) than whatever state I'm in.
 
kinniph said:
You should really read up on stuff. In Minnesota you can go faster than the posted speed y to pass. http://stcloud.legalexaminer.com/miscellaneous/can-you-get-a-ticket-for-exceeding-the-speed-limit-when-passing-a-vehicle-on-a-two-lane-road/
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Good point, but it's not that way everywhere and this is just another reason why states shouldn't be allowed to make their own laws because that needs like a national standard and we can't let dumb state governments have the ability to think for themselves because they do stupid stuff like that.

B00nie said:
Aaand then you woke up from the pipe dream.

There are many drivers who drive below speed limits and congest junctions with their insecure driving. All it takes is one driver stopping to a highway entrance to lock up a few miles of traffick behind her/him. If the driver would accelerate and join traffic smoothly the lockup would be avoided.

One lockup like that can extend several crossroads back and continue to disrupt traffick because also the following joiners are going to have to join using lower than normal speed. Add to that a few drivers again who do not accelerate their cars to posted speeds immediately after getting their turn to go, momentum is carried even further.

Insecure drivers are the bane of rush hour traffic. They should be ticketed and sent back to driving school. It's a sad fact that people get driving licenses way too easily.
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I hate to say this, but it just sounds like you're being impatient and aren't letting yourself stay calm which makes you look at people who actually drive safely and legally as though they're the ones doing something wrong.

In fact, most fatal accidents involve drunk guys or guys driving too fast so the stats really don't support revoking licenses for people like me. I think speeding should result in a license revocation for life after the first ticket.
 
CreepyUncleGoogle said:
I hate to say this, but it just sounds like you're being impatient and aren't letting yourself stay calm which makes you look at people who actually drive safely and legally as though they're the ones doing something wrong.

In fact, most fatal accidents involve drunk guys or guys driving too fast so the stats really don't support revoking licenses for people like me. I think speeding should result in a license revocation for life after the first ticket.
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As we've established, those clogging up the passing lane are driving ILLEGALLY and unsafely. Sure, it's safe for them to drive 5 under in the left lane, but it's safe for no one else following the prevailing rules of the road. The 'I'm doing the speed limit, so I'm entitled to the left lane hog' is increasing the risk for every other motorist that has learned to pass on the left. They are a danger to society and should be off the road.
 
Kueller said:
As we've established, those clogging up the passing lane are driving ILLEGALLY and unsafely. Sure, it's safe for them to drive 5 under in the left lane, but it's safe for no one else following the prevailing rules of the road. The 'I'm doing the speed limit, so I'm entitled to the left lane hog' is increasing the risk for every other motorist that has learned to pass on the left. They are a danger to society and should be off the road.
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There is no prevailing rule of the road aside from the laws that are clearly posted on signs and in the driving test thingy that you took. If you're speeding, you're wrong and you're endangering innocent people out of your own selfishness. If you think that someone who isn't speeding is the one who's dangerous, then you prolly have a more serious mental defect than I can help you fix via this forum.
 
SparkedFire said:
I think this should be, less traffic lights leads to less congestion. I swear morons run the traffic engineering departments and light timings.
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It may make more sense to you if you view odd light timing from a revenue generation standpoint. If the lights seem timed to make you speed to make them, or tempt you to coast through a just changing light, it is likely by design. :(
 
CreepyUncleGoogle said:
Yup, it didn't take long for someone to get upset and try to justify their horribly unsafe driving by blaming the people who acknowledge the posted speed limit and aren't being hormone-fueled raging man-sausages that are busy smoking, drinking, and screaming obscenities at pretty much everyone that happens to not be driving twice the posted speed limit because they have this movie and TV make-believe fantasy that they're in a huge ball-bashy competition with every other irresponsible super-penis that's managed not to have his license revoked or has yet to kill someone trying to walk across a street.
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Speeding doesn't kill people. Bad driving does.
 
Kueller said:
As we've established, those clogging up the passing lane are driving ILLEGALLY and unsafely.
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Depends on the state, you said so yourself, so dont generalize.

Speeding is bad driving since you are disregarding a basic safety rule. You do know that the speed limit is set taking into account the average fair weather condition, the bends of the road, reaction time and average stopping distance of cars, disregarding that because you think that you are super human is indeed bad driving.

If merging in a Highway is seen as too dangerous then it is usually the problem of bad design and terrible drivers who are going on the right side at max or near max speed, the ideal design is when you have a stretch of length specifically for the mergers to get into the proper speed.


In any case, i see lots of posters here who are just gonna end up as statistics.
 
sleepeeg3 said:
Speeding doesn't kill people. Bad driving does.
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This. And furthermore, any modern vehicle newer than 2010 (this is broad, I know there are plenty before so that qualify as well) can stop, handle and accelerate better than any vehicle produced when road speed limits were set.

We have seen an unparalleled advance in vehicle safety, dynamics and reliability.. yet road speeds have stayed stagnant. I'm not saying residential streets need to be 55, they're fine at 30, but 55-65mph highways are a joke. Furthermore, semi's should never be allowed in the fast lane, drivers should never use it as their "cruising lane" and the following saying dies hard: lead, follow or get the fuck out of the way.
 
CreepyUncleGoogle said:
Of course not, but you still can't legally go faster than whatever the speed limit is no matter what lane you're in so you really should only be in that lane if someone in one of the right ones is going lower than the posted speed limit (which they should do under not ideal conditions like in rain, snow, ice, after sunset, driving into blinding sun or whatever else). The speed limit is the maximum allowed speed and going a little slower than it is perfectly okay. It's people that are in a hurry or who have testosterone and can't control themselves that are really to blame for unsafe conditions, accidents, bad traffic flow, and pretty much everything else that's wrong with trying to go someplace safely.
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That isn't completely true (depending on the city/state) ... some cities do have traffic flow over rides for the speed limit that require you to go with the traffic flow ... if all the cars during rush hour were traveling +5 above the speed limit and you were going the speed limit (and blocking the traffic flow) then it is possible to receive a ticket for just that

I always try to speed up when I am passing (even if that takes me above the speed limit) so I can get around the person faster and back into the right lane ... I will brake and forego passing if another car is too close on the left and I don't want to cut them off to attempt to pass (I let them pass then I go) ... not all drivers follow these guidelines though :cool:
 
rotarymotor said:
I'm born and raised in Florida and I will have to say that when it came to earning my license it was one of the most terrifying experiences as a young adolescent.

My high school driver's education course final weeks had us learning highway merging and traffic and where I lived we had one of the most dangerous highways in the USA. US highway 19. That's when I realized for the first time in my life how many people in this world have a complete disregard for all life and just want to throw away their lives while taking others with them.

The way people, and law enforcement have a complete disregard for the speed limit is absolutely disgusting. And I will admit, I occasionally will go above the speed limit ONLY because the flow of traffic is going that speed.

Usually, around here people do the average 5 above, and even then I don't feel comfortable, but I know if I stick to the speed limit (in clear conditions) that I will be causing a traffic disturbance. But you bet your ass as soon as conditions get even slightly bad, I'm slowing down 10-20mph or more just to make sure I have 5+ seconds of reaction time between me and the car(s) ahead of me (I usually keep 2s+ in normal conditions).

What makes no sense is when law enforcement is mingled in with traffic and they're not even giving a good example, they're doing whatever the flow of traffic is doing! So how do you think how this looks in to the eyes of Joe Blow-That-You-Don't-Know and what he thinks of speed limits?

So all that being said, the worst offenders, in my opinion, are the ones who feel they need to go above and beyond. Traffic is already going past the posted speed limits (5-10mph), they are riding your ass, looking to cause a major pile up and feel the need to drive as if they're on the autobahn during rush hour traffic. Those people, those are the true pieces of shit humans.
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Hate to break it to you by those going 5-10 over depending on the road aren't the worst offenders. Perhaps when you get enough experience driving to not be constantly terrified you'll learn that. There are two exceptionally dangerous groups of drivers on the road; overly aggressive and overly cautious. Both groups are dangerous in their own right. In the case of overly aggressive, their speed is irrelevant ad you can be overly aggressive above or below. I've actually had more trouble with overly cautious drivers over the years as they don't seem to understand how much danger they are causing. I hate to break it to you, but you fall squarely into that group by your description. Going a few mph over doesn't make one aggressive, that's where riding peoples asses comes in. Driving is all about understanding the flow of traffic and driving conditions around you. If conditions are good and traffic flow allows, you should never feel uncomfortable a few mph over. Bear in mind I'm referring to open stretches of highway/ freeway. If you are on city streets, stick to the limit obviously.
 
Yeah, the vast majority of you people are the reason why there are so many deaths on roads. You guys are justifying your way straight into causing accidents that kill innocent people by being like "Oh, well it's traffic flow," or "Cars are betterer now," or the best of one of all which is the every-person-with-testicles delusion that they're somehow a "good driver." :rolleyes: I've never met a guy who claims that who didn't also drive like a total idiot pretend-o racing-everything moron.
 
CreepyUncleGoogle said:
Yeah, the vast majority of you people are the reason why there are so many deaths on roads. You guys are justifying your way straight into causing accidents that kill innocent people by being like "Oh, well it's traffic flow," or "Cars are betterer now," or the best of one of all which is the every-person-with-testicles delusion that they're somehow a "good driver." :rolleyes: I've never met a guy who claims that who didn't also drive like a total idiot pretend-o racing-everything moron.
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Now now CUG ... I didn't write the laws, just repeating them ... traffic flow can actually be valid ... consider in nature, it is not the Wildebeest that is in the middle of the pack that goes down, it is the straggler that is going against the flow that is eaten by lions :cool:

The biggest problem with most drivers is not speed but distraction ... I try to adjust my mirrors carefully to minimize the blind spots and I always look for bikes in bike lanes before I turn across their lane ... I drive with the traditional 10 and 2 hand positions most of the time and I regularly scan all three mirrors regularly ... if drivers were paying attention to the road, maintaining their vehicles, and properly trained on driving rules (including right of way) then that would probably reduce a great number of accidents (many more than a speed reduction would) ;)
 
kbrickley said:
Now now CUG ... I didn't write the laws, just repeating them ... traffic flow can actually be valid ... consider in nature, it is not the Wildebeest that is in the middle of the pack that goes down, it is the straggler that is going against the flow that is eaten by lions :cool:

The biggest problem with most drivers is not speed but distraction ... I try to adjust my mirrors carefully to minimize the blind spots and I always look for bikes in bike lanes before I turn across their lane ... I drive with the traditional 10 and 2 hand positions most of the time and I regularly scan all three mirrors regularly ... if drivers were paying attention to the road, maintaining their vehicles, and properly trained on driving rules (including right of way) then that would probably reduce a great number of accidents (many more than a speed reduction would) ;)
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What? Lions? This is about driving cars safely to work or to the mall, not escaping a cute little kitty that just is looking for a snack.

Anyway, you can put all the hands you want on a steering wheel, but if you're speeding you're still a horrible human being that is gonna be the reason why someone innocent dies in their car. I hope no one ever has to live with themselves after they do that which is why its so awful to see people blindly excusing themselves for any number of reasons when they drive unsafely.
 
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