Interactive Exhibit Features Two Decades Of Female Game Developers

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This is crazy talk! How can there be an interactive exhibit featuring two decades of female game developers when there are no women in gaming?

“Women created this industry,” Alex Handy, founder and director of a California digital art museum, told me via email. “From the imagination and creativity of Roberta Williams, to the technical skill of Carol Shaw, to the leadership skills of Amy Henning, women are an integral part of the history of video games.”
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I was just going to mention the team of Ken and Roberta Williams who founded Sierra together.
 
In the early Sierra credits, Ken was always listed as the programmer, and Roberta as the "Game Designer". Having no experience with gaming development, I'm not quite sure what a "Game Designer" is or does, but I imagine it to be the creative side.
 
I am sure not one person or gender 'created' this industry.
Maybe 'Atari created this industry' might be a position that can be defended.
Atari did have women game makers if not mistaken.
I am very much for 'equality' but I am getting a bit sick of the man-hating crap.
And exalting women in some role to the point of absurdity is a bit of man-hating to me.
I am also getting sensitive to women conceptualizing men as incapable of sentiment other than anger.. then on top of it making fun if one does not get angry at something they are angry (then the man is all weak and useless).. and of course acting surprised if we do act angry or even violent, then its wrong.
 
Uvaman said:
I am sure not one person or gender 'created' this industry.
Maybe 'Atari created this industry' might be a position that can be defended.
Atari did have women game makers if not mistaken.
I am very much for 'equality' but I am getting a bit sick of the man-hating crap.
And exalting women in some role to the point of absurdity is a bit of man-hating to me.
I am also getting sensitive to women conceptualizing men as incapable of sentiment other than anger.. then on top of it making fun if one does not get angry at something they are angry (then the man is all weak and useless).. and of course acting surprised if we do act angry or even violent, then its wrong.
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You have a point. The whole "Women created this industry" is a little sensationalist and click bait. Heaping praise on Roberta Williams - for example - and ignoring the existence of Ken Williams is just kind of silly.

That being said, drawing attention to the fact that Women had a role in the creation of the industry, and its not now nor has been all male all the time, is a good thing.
 
Steve said:
This is crazy talk! How can there be an interactive exhibit featuring two decades of female game developers when there are no women in gaming?
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As much as I dislike nitpicking, just becomes there are female developers doesnt mean there are a lot of female game players. For instance, it's possible that the developers were tempted by the great competitive rates and great working hours of the game industry! (In case your wondering, that's sarcasm because low level gaming jobs are the worst kind of hell a white collar worker can ever find.)
 
Steve said:
This is crazy talk! How can there be an interactive exhibit featuring two decades of female game developers when there are no women in gaming?
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Exactly. How can this be when to hear these people talk lately it would seem as though there aren't any women to be found in the industry?. Someone's got some 'splainin' to do.
 
Zarathustra[H];1041570926 said:
Heaping praise on Roberta Williams - for example - and ignoring the existence of Ken Williams is just kind of silly.
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Especially when Lori and Corey Cole made better games. :D
 
mynamehere said:
Exactly. How can this be when to hear these people talk lately it would seem as though there aren't any women to be found in the industry?. Someone's got some 'splainin' to do.
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maybe the fact that the exhibit has to go back 30 years to find worthy mentions is indicative of a problem? or that their most recent example if from nearly a decade ago?

I think it would be far more interesting to actually take the opinions of those women being used as examples into consideration...because they haven't been particularly supportive of where video gaming as an industry shot off the rails since they were active and ignoring those concerns of theirs simply turns them into tokens.
 
Zarathustra[H];1041570926 said:
You have a point. The whole "Women created this industry" is a little sensationalist and click bait. Heaping praise on Roberta Williams - for example - and ignoring the existence of Ken Williams is just kind of silly.

That being said, drawing attention to the fact that Women had a role in the creation of the industry, and its not now nor has been all male all the time, is a good thing.
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I am sure Ken Williams would be okay with the credit his wife is receiving. The section in "All Your Base are Belong to Us" on the Williams (appropriately titled "When the Adventure Ends") gave a nice history of them ... it is a shame that they left the industry in such a painful way ... they were class acts and we have so few in their league today
 
Zarathustra[H];1041570883 said:
In the early Sierra credits, Ken was always listed as the programmer, and Roberta as the "Game Designer". Having no experience with gaming development, I'm not quite sure what a "Game Designer" is or does, but I imagine it to be the creative side.
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Yes, in the book "All Your Base are Belong to Us" they had a chapter on the Williams ... she came up with the ideas, wrote the stories, did some of the art ... at the start her husband tried to translate her vision into code (later when he was running the company they had programming teams working for her) ... they did make an excellent team and it was a shame that the consoles forced them out of the market ... but I think all the politics with the publishers helped destroy them too ... too bad since I think they would fare well in the modern booming PC environment
 
I doubt they'd fare well. Even she doesn't believe she fits into the video gaming milieu that grew out of computer gaming of the 80's and 90's. Demographics have shifted tremendously and the few interviews she's given indicate she doesn't have any desire to cater to them.
 
does it include this amazing creation? i am told it's the perfect female character design.

1785254-the_scythian.png
 
Women created all industries by giving birth to everyone involved.
 
Just out of curiosity, what's the guy:girl ratio in these forums... because what I don't hear ever is a female side to anything around here. Bout the most I see are second hand comments from gf/wives. That's. About. It.
 
Ski said:
Just out of curiosity, what's the guy:girl ratio in these forums... because what I don't hear ever is a female side to anything around here. Bout the most I see are second hand comments from gf/wives. That's. About. It.
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Granted, I have never met a gathering of hard forum regulars in person to confirm, but judging by the people I know who have interests similar to ours, I would be surprised if even a single percent of registered forums members are female, and those who are probably don't go around announcing it, for good reason.

While I have every bit of confidence that we on here are not the harassing kind, it's so incredibly rare to come across a woman with interests in computer hardware, overclocking and high end games, that being a woman publicly on here would likely result in getting all kinds of unwanted attention.
 
Ski said:
Just out of curiosity, what's the guy:girl ratio in these forums... because what I don't hear ever is a female side to anything around here. Bout the most I see are second hand comments from gf/wives. That's. About. It.
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Now let me answer your question with another question, how many woman/girls do you know personally who's a major enthusiast in building computers, staying up to the latest GPU/CPU etc etc etc.

It's exactly why there aren't woman in the NFL, it's not in there interest.
 
Kalabalana said:
"Women created this industry"
Is an incredibly sexist, and false thing to state.
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Although it is certainly more marketing hyperbole than absolute truth, people like the Williams were instrumental in creating an industry that we now take for granted ... Roberta was a key creative player in their business and definitely helped create the modern computer game industry ;)
 
Probably some blacks, gays, muslims, asians, and possibly even a Mexican involved in the history of video games.

In other words it's like every other industry, and it doesn't matter.
 
BlankIt said:
Now let me answer your question with another question, how many woman/girls do you know personally who's a major enthusiast in building computers, staying up to the latest GPU/CPU etc etc etc.

It's exactly why there aren't woman in the NFL, it's not in there interest.
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And you just reinforced my point, because the only answer you're going to get is from another man, and it only recycles the echo chamber argument and never understanding why.

Honestly, I could care less about what you think, because I'm going to get the same response from the fifty other male arguments. I would rather hear the opinion of not just men alone, but also women that way I can make a better more well rounded conclusion for myself.

Oh and your straw-man of comparing the NFL to the video game industry, think about that for a moment.
 
Zarathustra[H];1041571469 said:
Granted, I have never met a gathering of hard forum regulars in person to confirm, but judging by the people I know who have interests similar to ours, I would be surprised if even a single percent of registered forums members are female, and those who are probably don't go around announcing it, for good reason.

While I have every bit of confidence that we on here are not the harassing kind, it's so incredibly rare to come across a woman with interests in computer hardware, overclocking and high end games, that being a woman publicly on here would likely result in getting all kinds of unwanted attention.
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There were some women active on the forums a while back but the few who actually voiced their opinions but were occasionally treated like shit. At least two that I remember announced they were tired of the abusive comments and abandoning their accounts were responded to with more abuse and then some back slapping etc.

Lots of women gamers out there but they don't get the kind of unwanted attention people assume. When we're all playing MOBA together and their voice comes across they are generally treated like shit, not objects of affection. I'm assuming you were implying that women would get chased romantically or sexually or something like that but instead my experience seems to be that they generally get treated like trash and so they keep their mouths shut...people on here claim that's just the way it is and will always be indicating that they don't see it as a problem (whereas I'd tend to see that as a problem for everyone, not just women, if their gaming environments are indeed that toxic) and don't have much desire to change it.
 
westrock2000 said:
Probably some blacks, gays, muslims, asians, and possibly even a Mexican involved in the history of video games.

In other words it's like every other industry, and it doesn't matter.
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In the case of the gaming industry it actually does matter as they had some legendary people who built this industry over the last 50 years or so ... they aren't all women but I don't fault women for wanting to honor their own. The book "All Your Base are Belong to Us" actually does a pretty good job covering the history of gaming by covering a few of the legends in the industry:

Prelude: Dr. William Higinbotham ... the first person to create a video game using an oscilloscope
Ch 1 - Ralph Baer ... inventor of the Odyssey (the first video game console)
Ch 2 - Nolan Bushnell ... inventor of Pong ... the man that made gaming mass market
Ch 3 - Atari
Ch 4 - Shigeru Miyamoto and Nintendo
Ch 5 - Alexey Pajitnov ... inventor of Tetris
Ch 6 - William "Trip" Hawkins III ... founder of Electronic Arts
Ch 7 - Zork, Myst, and The 7th Guest
Ch 8 - Andy Gavin and Jason Rubin ... creators of Crash Bandicoot
Ch 9 - Ken and Roberta Williams
Ch 10 - Everquest
Ch 11 - Chris Metzen and World of Warcraft
Ch 12 - Ken Levine and Bioshock
Ch 13 - Video game movies (not a highlight unfortunately)
Ch 14 - The Houser brothers and the birth of Rockstar Games
Ch 15 - Grand Theft Auto
Ch 16 - Vechey and Fiete ... founders of Popcap games
Ch 17 - Will Wright ... if I have to explain who he is then just douse your torch, you've been voted off of gamer island :)
Ch 18 - The Wii
Ch 19 - hodgepodge of various things to wrap up and Shadow Complex

There is actually a vivid and interesting history in gaming on both the console and computer side ... obviously they didn't cover other masters of the industry like Sid Meier, Lord British, and others but they mentioned many of them while covering the topics they chose ... the recent Smithsonian exhibit on The Art of Games shows us how far we have come as a hobby and as an industry ... enjoy the history, don't dismiss it so cavalierly ;)
 
kbrickley said:
Although it is certainly more marketing hyperbole than absolute truth, people like the Williams were instrumental in creating an industry that we now take for granted ... Roberta was a key creative player in their business and definitely helped create the modern computer game industry ;)
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Speaking of instrumental. What about the musicians in the video game industry? There is some fantastic musical talent in the industry. But only a few like Koji Kondo (Mario Bros) and Nobuo Uematsu (Final Fantasy) are actually known by name, and even then outside of gaming very few would recognize the name.

Unsung heroes....
 
westrock2000 said:
Speaking of instrumental. What about the musicians in the video game industry? There is some fantastic musical talent in the industry. But only a few like Koji Kondo (Mario Bros) and Nobuo Uematsu (Final Fantasy) are actually known by name, and even then outside of gaming very few would recognize the name.

Unsung heroes....
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I am a big fan of gaming music and have bought more than a few collector's editions to get game soundtracks ... I agree they are sometimes unknown and underrated compared to their cinematic counterparts ... I am a fan of Matt Uelmen, Jeremy Soule, Michael Hoenig and others :cool:
 
mope54 said:
There were some women active on the forums a while back but the few who actually voiced their opinions but were occasionally treated like shit. At least two that I remember announced they were tired of the abusive comments and abandoning their accounts were responded to with more abuse and then some back slapping etc.

Lots of women gamers out there but they don't get the kind of unwanted attention people assume. When we're all playing MOBA together and their voice comes across they are generally treated like shit, not objects of affection. I'm assuming you were implying that women would get chased romantically or sexually or something like that but instead my experience seems to be that they generally get treated like trash and so they keep their mouths shut...people on here claim that's just the way it is and will always be indicating that they don't see it as a problem (whereas I'd tend to see that as a problem for everyone, not just women, if their gaming environments are indeed that toxic) and don't have much desire to change it.
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That is unfortunate.

It differs from my experiences, but I don't doubt it.

Back when I ran gaming servers (I had a few popular public counter strike servers in college, let see, I graduated in 2003, so I probably ran them from ~2000 to ~2005.

We had one girl who was a regular. She was very rarely harassed, but when she was, myself and the other admins on the server would kick the offenders, and if they kept it up, ban them. Maybe it was because of our rather proactive approach, but the problem never really grew beyond that. She still got lots of attention, and I'm sure not all of it was wanted, but none of the corrosive/sexist shit was tolerated in the slightest.

That - however - is the extent of my personal experience with the subject.

IMHO, a large part of the problems women face in games and in forums such as these are simply because they are such novelties. Hopefully as their numbers grow, that novelty will wear off, and the environment will become less problematic.
 
kbrickley said:
I am a big fan of gaming music and have bought more than a few collector's editions to get game soundtracks ... I agree they are sometimes unknown and underrated compared to their cinematic counterparts ... I am a fan of Matt Uelmen, Jeremy Soule, Michael Hoenig and others :cool:
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I haven't ventured into western too much. Plenty of Japanese to start with. Especially since they usually get mixed with the Anime composers. It's a musical segment I can honestly say that pirating is the only way to obtain most of the music.
 
I have seen some really cute girls working at video game stores. Some not so much, but you do get some really cute ones sometimes.
 
westrock2000 said:
I haven't ventured into western too much. Plenty of Japanese to start with. Especially since they usually get mixed with the Anime composers. It's a musical segment I can honestly say that pirating is the only way to obtain most of the music.
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The western ones are actually pretty easy to get legally these days (although they are not always any cheaper than a regular soundtrack) ... I have soundtracks for Seven Kingdoms, Alien Nations, Age of Wonders 1, 2, 3 ... Baldur's Gate 1 and 2, beyond divine divinity, beyond good and evil, bioshock, braid, civ 5, civ IV, Crusader's of Might and Magic, Divine Divinity, dead island, diablo 1,2, 3 ... disciples 2, elder scrolls V, Fallout, fallout NV, Farcry 3, frozen synapse, galactic civ, grim dawn, hellgate london, Heroes Chronicles, HoMM 1,2,3,4,5,VI ... Icewind Dale 1 and 2, jagged alliance, majesty, age of empires III, Might and magic 4,6,9 ... Master of Magic, master of orion 2 and 3, morrowind, nations, neverwinter nights, oblivion, path of exile, planescape torment, plants vs zombies, sanctum, sengoku, skyrim, stronghold, bastion, temple of elemental evil, quake, warcraft 3, witcher ... and probably a few more

so I am not really much of a fan at all :D
 
kbrickley said:
Although it is certainly more marketing hyperbole than absolute truth, people like the Williams were instrumental in creating an industry that we now take for granted ... Roberta was a key creative player in their business and definitely helped create the modern computer game industry ;)
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And so was the men who helped them. I hate these kinds of thing because they only point out one side when it's all sides that count. It reeks of justifications and pandering.

Like the BlackLivesMatter thing.... yea.... but AllLivesMatter. Then they get in a huffy because they didn't get make themselves especially visible. Black History Month as well.
 
kbrickley said:
Although it is certainly more marketing hyperbole than absolute truth, people like the Williams were instrumental in creating an industry that we now take for granted ... Roberta was a key creative player in their business and definitely helped create the modern computer game industry ;)
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Why quote me without addressing anything I typed?
I never questioned the presence of women in gaming, or their role in the pioneering of the field. Why assume I am not familiar with what you stated in response?

I'm not looking for answers, but you might find some.
 
Kalabalana said:
Why quote me without addressing anything I typed?
I never questioned the presence of women in gaming, or their role in the pioneering of the field. Why assume I am not familiar with what you stated in response?

I'm not looking for answers, but you might find some.
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I tried to address it by saying it was marketing (sorry I didn't delve beyond that) ... women are just as entitled to take a marketing spin as many of the male gamers and developers are ... and given some of the negative publicity that has been directed at women gamers and developers recently I don't see that them highlighting women developers hurt anyone ... there are only a few great developers who no one can dispute (Sid Meier, Richard Garriott, Will Wright, Ken and Roberta Williams, John Carmack, and a few others) ... was their claim an exaggeration (definitely) ... did their exaggeration hurt anyone (not in my opinion) ... and most of the young gamers who have been raised on consoles have little knowledge of the founding parents of gaming so it was a valid comment to make (but directing it at you was an error and I apologize for that) :cool:
 
Ski said:
And you just reinforced my point, because the only answer you're going to get is from another man, and it only recycles the echo chamber argument and never understanding why.

Honestly, I could care less about what you think, because I'm going to get the same response from the fifty other male arguments. I would rather hear the opinion of not just men alone, but also women that way I can make a better more well rounded conclusion for myself.

Oh and your straw-man of comparing the NFL to the video game industry, think about that for a moment.
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The bigger problem is that is matters to you what the gender of the person at the end of the keyboard is. Honestly so long as we keep caring about trivial bullshit like that the whole sexist problem isn't going to be going away. I don't care what a "woman" thinks about something just the same as I don't care what a "man" thinks. What I care about is what that person actually said and how relevant or insightful it was. As to their Race/sex/religion etc I really could not give a shit one way or the other. It isn't important.
 
What a load of feminist nonsense. Women CREATED the gaming industries and community, you men need to learn to appreciate that... revisionist history kicked into overdrive!

Doesn't sound as good I suppose as "over the decades, there have been a handful of developers, accounting for a small fraction, that weren't male... but most developers and consumers in the industry are". Because if you put it that way, its an industry created primarily by males to a primarily male consumer base, and oh yeah, it ACTUALLY is.

Now had they worded it differently, and simply wanted to give a hand to the few females involved in the industry, fine, but honestly who gives a crap if a dev had tits or balls?

In fact, who even knows who most developers are? The average Joe doesn't know or care, they only know if the game is good and know the name of the publisher but that's about it. Only real exceptions are REALLY big titles or guys like Sid Meiers that insist on plastering their name on every game.
 
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