Study: People Try Apple Pay Once, Don’t Go Back

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Let's be honest, Apple’s new mobile-payment system won't go anywhere until the issues outlined in this article are resolved.

88% of survey participants who set up Apple Pay went out into the world and tried to use it, Phoenix reports, but almost half of those users (47%) say that they tried to use the service in a store that advertised Apple Pay capability but didn’t actually have it. About two-thirds of people who tried to use Apple Pay out in the wild reported problems actually using it at checkout. The process was slow, the cashier didn’t know what they were doing, or they couldn’t resolve problems: they experienced a variety of issues with the service, and didn’t use it again.
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I used it once. It was significantly slower than just paying with my CC.
 
Not sure using my smart phone to pay for something as opposed to just swiping my debit or credit card will ever be something I want a part of. Some things just work fine and don't need any "progress" messing with it.
 
What, apple fanatics have given up on something made by apple?

Credit card swiping is still so much easier. And there's no risk of having butterfingers and dropping the phone when paying for something.
 
I tried using Softcard (formerly Isis Mobile Wallet) with an Android device and it was buggy as can be. When I would get to the register I would restart my phone because if I didn't it wouldn't work. After American Express quit giving 10% of your purchase price back I quit using it.

There was only one time I heard that it made sense to use, a guy at work forgot his wallet and was able to use tap to pay.
 
I've used it once at Whole Foods on a whim when I noticed it was supported. It was significantly faster than using a credit card. I held my phone up to the swipe machine and used Touch ID to authorize sale. Only annoyance was I still had to sign. I haven't used it since though, so I would technically fall into the above statistic.
 
Study: People Try OS X, Don't Come Back.

Mobile payments will be much more pleasant when it starts working on smartwatches.
 
MacLeod said:
Not sure using my smart phone to pay for something as opposed to just swiping my debit or credit card will ever be something I want a part of. Some things just work fine and don't need any "progress" messing with it.
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Bingo, the next evolution in brick and mortar shopping should not be how to pay (that's a conscious decision that is supposed to take the 10-15 seconds that it does), but the step that comes before paying. That is, checking out. Checking out is a ridiculously slow and tedious process, especially during rush hours at places like Costco. How cool would it be to just run your cart through a line and immediately pay for everything, in the span of about 10-15 seconds?
 
I use Google Wallet all the time. Never had any problems, is faster than using Debit, and I usually have my phone in my hand in line anyway. It's a shame mobile payments aren't taking off.
 
You have to look at this technology in the view of the market in which it was developed. Outside of the USA credit cards are all now chip and pin, you have to enter a pin number every time you buy something. Because of this the tap and go type credit cards and things like Apple Pay make more sense. Just tap and go, and the readers are everywhere because the same readers that do chip and pin also do NFC.

I'm really surprised the US credit card providers haven't forced the vendors to switch over to chip and pin like they did everywhere else. Apparently it saves them a lot of money.
 
OTOH, I've used Google Wallet in the past (NFC payments) and it worked quickly, and well.
 
I use an Duane Reade in NYC all the time. Super fast and convenient. If its done well its super nice.
 
Not everyone is dumb enough to fall for the apple pay hype. For one, why would anyone risk dropping, scratching or getting their phone snatched making a payment that's not any easier than with card. At least put the sensor at crotch level so you don't have to take it out of pocket.
 
ive used google wallet for probably two years now and find it amusing how people think this is some new tech that apple came up with.
 
StoleMyOwnCar said:
Bingo, the next evolution in brick and mortar shopping should not be how to pay (that's a conscious decision that is supposed to take the 10-15 seconds that it does), but the step that comes before paying. That is, checking out. Checking out is a ridiculously slow and tedious process, especially during rush hours at places like Costco. How cool would it be to just run your cart through a line and immediately pay for everything, in the span of about 10-15 seconds?
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This exists and has been talked about for years. The stores are very reluctant to use it. I can imagine it'd be a fast lane type gate system.
 
This is too funny. Our bank is days away from launching Apple Pay support, and yet there are very few stores in our area with cash registers that actually support it. Customer's wanted it, we provided. Now its up to the stores to actually give a shit. According to this article, it still seems like all the adoption issues are on the store end.
 
Spidey329 said:
This exists and has been talked about for years. The stores are very reluctant to use it. I can imagine it'd be a fast lane type gate system.
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How does this work? RFID tags?

What happens if somebody swaps out, removes, or disables the RFID tags?

Or what if some RFID tags are just faulty?

If I owned a store, I certainly would not be using this type of system.
 
At our local Costco's heavy shopping times, the employees use a handheld barcode scanner/terminal to scan your items while you wait in line. Once you reach the cashier, your total is quickly rang up for payment. Instead of 15-20 minutes checkout process, it takes 5-10 minutes. If Costco integrated a chip into their membership cards for payment, it would make the checkout process even faster.
 
cyclone3d said:
How does this work? RFID tags?

What happens if somebody swaps out, removes, or disables the RFID tags?

Or what if some RFID tags are just faulty?

If I owned a store, I certainly would not be using this type of system.
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Well what happens if someone currently swaps out barcodes? What if in the self checkout I just shoved something into the bagging area without checking it out?

What think they do is try to add up the weight of how much everything in your bagging area should weigh as opposed to what you've checked out with. Theoretically (obviously haven't tried this) I suppose if anyone wanted to bypass that, they could simply find... oh let's say a heavy piece of fruit that weighed the same as two much more expensive but smaller items... and then scan that but instead of putting it in the bags they put the two items in the bags. Obviously anyone supervising the area carefully would easily catch on and so would the camera, but I suppose it'd be possible to get away with it in moderation. Of course having random fruit or something lying around every time you check out would be a bit odd but whatever. People at a busy supermarket do worse.

Anyway moving on, they could probably use the similar type of system for determining whether something is fishy with what you're checking out with. I think technology is sufficiently advanced enough to where we could at least manage that. For very smart, devious people... well they're going to find a way around either system probably.
 
pxc said:
If they understood the risks they wouldn't sign up.
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I'm genuinely curious. What risks are you referring to?

The system only exchanges tokens between the phone, cash register and card processor, not card numbers. The tokens are throwaway numbers and can help eliminate additional fraud should the merchant be compromised. It won't eliminate the initial fraud, but help slow fraud by preventing the card being used elsewhere.

The only risk I know of is that your card number is stored on Apple's servers. The card number is not stored on the phone at all. Unfortunately, Apple is a huge target and have proven they are definitely not immune to hacking.
 
MacLeod said:
Not sure using my smart phone to pay for something as opposed to just swiping my debit or credit card will ever be something I want a part of. Some things just work fine and don't need any "progress" messing with it.
Click to expand...

"Works fine" in the sense that CCs in the USA are some of the most insecure dinosaurs still in use today...and those insecure CCs are the primary source of fraud that drive's everyone's expenses banking up.
 
StoleMyOwnCar said:
Bingo, the next evolution in brick and mortar shopping should not be how to pay (that's a conscious decision that is supposed to take the 10-15 seconds that it does), but the step that comes before paying. That is, checking out. Checking out is a ridiculously slow and tedious process, especially during rush hours at places like Costco. How cool would it be to just run your cart through a line and immediately pay for everything, in the span of about 10-15 seconds?
Click to expand...

Even better is drive-thru Costco which is currently in testing. This benefits both parties since it's more convenient for the customer and less costly for the business in terms of implementing technology/RFID/etc. and loss from theft. Other perks are you don't to deal with dumb asses like ones who park their cart in the middle of the isle blocking everyone instead of to the side like with driving.

https://youtu.be/N16BDsH1iyw
 
CaptNumbNutz said:
I'm genuinely curious. What risks are you referring to?
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How about this:

Banks are tightening the verification process in an attempt to curb the fraud, these people said, declining to be identified citing a confidentiality agreement with Apple.

The fraud issue was brought to light by Cherian Abraham, a payment expert who works with banks and retailers on mobile-payment strategies, in a blog post in late February. He said fraud “is growing like a weed, and the bank is unable to tell friend from foe.”

Abraham said it’s not “an anomaly” to see fraud accounting for about 6% of Apple Pay transactions, compared to about 0.1% of transactions using a plastic card to swipe. He noted that fraud rates vary by issuing bank.
http://blogs.wsj.com/digits/2015/03/03/fraud-comes-to-apple-pay/



Of course Apple says it's not their fault, it's the banks fault. The banks are stuck absorbing the cost of the fraud, so I don't know why any bank would want to support ApplePay.
 
nutzo said:
How about this:

Banks are tightening the verification process in an attempt to curb the fraud, these people said, declining to be identified citing a confidentiality agreement with Apple.

The fraud issue was brought to light by Cherian Abraham, a payment expert who works with banks and retailers on mobile-payment strategies, in a blog post in late February. He said fraud “is growing like a weed, and the bank is unable to tell friend from foe.”

Abraham said it’s not “an anomaly” to see fraud accounting for about 6% of Apple Pay transactions, compared to about 0.1% of transactions using a plastic card to swipe. He noted that fraud rates vary by issuing bank.
http://blogs.wsj.com/digits/2015/03/03/fraud-comes-to-apple-pay/



Of course Apple says it's not their fault, it's the banks fault. The banks are stuck absorbing the cost of the fraud, so I don't know why any bank would want to support ApplePay.
Click to expand...

Oh horseshit. Clickbait article just like the rest. That has nothing to do with Apple Pay and everything to do with the bank themselves. That article, and many other's I've seen like it, all say the same thing. The verification process when calling customer service is to blame. Same shit happens with or without Apple pay being a part of the system. Scammer calls in, bank only verifies a couple pieces of info when calling in, suddenly they make a change to your account like your billing address or your phone number on file.

The only weak links in Apple pay itself have to do with Apple since the card number is stored in their shittastic iTunes service. Everything else is the same fraud that's been going on for decades.
 
StoleMyOwnCar said:
Bingo, the next evolution in brick and mortar shopping should not be how to pay (that's a conscious decision that is supposed to take the 10-15 seconds that it does), but the step that comes before paying. That is, checking out. Checking out is a ridiculously slow and tedious process, especially during rush hours at places like Costco. How cool would it be to just run your cart through a line and immediately pay for everything, in the span of about 10-15 seconds?
Click to expand...

cyclone3d said:
How does this work? RFID tags?

What happens if somebody swaps out, removes, or disables the RFID tags?

Or what if some RFID tags are just faulty?

If I owned a store, I certainly would not be using this type of system.
Click to expand...

Yep, RFID tags.

RFID tags can be well hidden or hard to get to, yet still be read by the reader. Swapping out a tag is really difficult at best. Each tag is unique and programmed into the scanners database.

Faulty tags can happen, but what you do is "scan in" your product with a tag. If it's faulty then, you replace or reprogram it.

The system is not perfect and each tag costs money. Imagine doing inventory by walking around a clothing rack in 5 seconds with scanner and being done.

RFID is not really for a smaller store. There's a lot of up front work and cost. A high volume store like Costco could use it effectively.
 
nutzo said:
Abraham said it’s not “an anomaly” to see fraud accounting for about 6% of Apple Pay transactions, compared to about 0.1% of transactions using a plastic card to swipe. He noted that fraud rates vary by issuing bank.
http://blogs.wsj.com/digits/2015/03/03/fraud-comes-to-apple-pay/
Click to expand...
Keep in mind the figures behind those stats are thousands of fraudulent transactions with ApplePay vs. millions of fraudulent transactions using traditional CC.
 
MacLeod said:
Not sure using my smart phone to pay for something as opposed to just swiping my debit or credit card will ever be something I want a part of. Some things just work fine and don't need any "progress" messing with it.
Click to expand...

Luddite. ;)

Swiping? I hope you don't mean a mag strip reader. I haven't used one of those in years.

My day is RFID based.

I take public transit into the city core to work - tap my RFID bus card.
At work I badge in with tap of another RFID card.
I pay for my lunch by tapping my RFID bank card.
Then I badge out at the end of the day, tap, more transit home tap, tap...
I hop in my car and start it (proximity key card in my wallet, not RFID).
Buy some gas RFID tap.
Buy some groceries RFID tap...

At just a tap it is already pretty fast and convenient, much faster than cash ever was.

Progress for me is when they put all of these in a watch, so I don't have to fish out the right card, until then I have no use for a smart watch, but when they get this all sorted, I am on board.
 
ziscwg said:
Yep, RFID tags.

RFID tags can be well hidden or hard to get to, yet still be read by the reader. Swapping out a tag is really difficult at best. Each tag is unique and programmed into the scanners database.

Faulty tags can happen, but what you do is "scan in" your product with a tag. If it's faulty then, you replace or reprogram it.

The system is not perfect and each tag costs money. Imagine doing inventory by walking around a clothing rack in 5 seconds with scanner and being done.

RFID is not really for a smaller store. There's a lot of up front work and cost. A high volume store like Costco could use it effectively.
Click to expand...
LOL. Apple Pay does not use RFID. It uses NFC.

Now if you are talking about RFID on the products themselves being used in place of barcodes, that's a whole other issue and not related to Apple Pay.

================

CaptNumbNutz said:
The only weak links in Apple pay itself have to do with Apple since the card number is stored in their shittastic iTunes service. Everything else is the same fraud that's been going on for decades.
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I should have clarified this statement, but no edit.

Apple may store your credit card in iTunes, but the Apple Pay system does not store your card number. When using Apple Pay, you upload the card number through the phone, it connects to the card processor and a token is generated at the card processor and sent to the phone. The only way to get the token is to hack the card processor, or steal the phone. Even if you steal the phone, the token will be hard to get without another software tool to extract it, and its more likely the theif will just use the phone itself to pay. At that point, its treated like normal fraud, you call your bank and they report it. If the fraud is done with Apple Pay only, then its a simple matter of disabling the token and issuing a new one. Your credit card number doesn't even have to change.
 
CaptNumbNutz said:
LOL. Apple Pay does not use RFID. It uses NFC.

Now if you are talking about RFID on the products themselves being used in place of barcodes, that's a whole other issue and not related to Apple Pay.
Click to expand...

Grrr. no edit. Apple Pay does not use regular RFID. It uses NFC which is a very specific subset of RFID tech. Even though they use similar underlying tech, the implementation is different.

http://electronics.howstuffworks.com/difference-between-rfid-and-nfc.htm
 
CaptNumbNutz said:
LOL. Apple Pay does not use RFID. It uses NFC.

Now if you are talking about RFID on the products themselves being used in place of barcodes, that's a whole other issue and not related to Apple Pay.



================
Click to expand...

Yes, I know, but the poster I answered was wondering why not mess with the whole checkout process instead of paying. His point was that Apple is going after the wrong problem. However, Apple is going after what they believe will make them money with their Iphones.
 
I've used both Google Wallet and Apple Pay extensively (for some reason, my little podunk town has caught on) and find both to be just as fast and easy as the CC swipe. Different people have different experiences, but thus far mine have been positive.
 
Slow?

I accidentally used it to pay at McDonalds the other day. I didn't even realize what happened until the cashier handed me my receipt.

So it happened so quick I didn't realize it. I think those people were just fucking stupid.
 
Also, a HUGE lol at the people that are saying "OMG I DON'T WANT TO RISK BREAKING MY PHONE."

Every single one of you better never pull your phone out of your pockets for anything otherwise you're an ignorant hypocrite.
 
OEM said:
I accidentally used it to pay at McDonalds the other day. I didn't even realize what happened until the cashier handed me my receipt.
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If a transaction accidentally authorized without you being aware then that's cause for alarm. And, unless you tape your phone to your hand that's unlikely to happen.
 
mi7chy said:
If a transaction accidentally authorized without you being aware then that's cause for alarm. And, unless you tape your phone to your hand that's unlikely to happen.
Click to expand...

I had my phone unlocked and I normally keep my thumb on the reader when not clicking. It worked how it was supposed to.
 
only time i did this was in 2011 with my galaxy nexus when google was giving out free money.
 
I think the article is click-bait. I live in a smaller city. I use ApplePay frequently. It's fast and works well. As others have pointed out, this is not new tech - Google Wallet has been out for a few years.
I shop at Home Depot, Meijer's Starbucks, to name a few.
Some cashiers still don't know what it is. The stores should have perhaps told the cashiers about NFS payments? Shrugs.
 
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