Google Waze Draws Ire Of U.S. Sheriffs

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The National Sheriffs' Association seems to be the latest in a long line of groups that seem to be pissed off at Google lately.

Waze is a user-sourced traffic and navigation app, but it also allows users to tag the locations of parked police vehicles, accidents, congestion, traffic cameras, potholes and more, so that other drivers using the app are warned as they approach the same location.
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Perhaps the cops should stop trying to extort money from people who aren't violating the rights of others and start actually maybe perhaps dealing with those who steal and assault.
 
Knight_of_BAAWA said:
Perhaps the cops should stop trying to extort money from people who aren't violating the rights of others and start actually maybe perhaps dealing with those who steal and assault.
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Perhaps people who "think" they are great at driving should slow down so as to not cause crashes and injuries to other unsuspecting, law abiding motorists. A financial reminder to stop driving like an ass isn't a terrible idea.
 
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kirbyrj said:
Perhaps people who "think" they are great at driving should slow down so as to not cause crashes and injuries to other unsuspecting, law abiding motorists. A financial reminder to stop driving like an ass isn't a terrible idea.
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And apparently this app does in fact cause people to slow down, so win win right? Oh wait

as hampering the use of speed traps. The trade association said radar guns and other speed enforcement techniques have reduced highways deaths.
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The presence of visible police have reduced highway deaths because everyone slows down, which is what this app does. A speed trap by definition is one where it tries to nab someone where there might be some rapid change in speed, or some unknown factor like a sign covered by overgrown vegetation (tree/bush/etc).
 
My problem with this is the illusion that catching speeders is helping society. This app is helping to reduce congestion of traffic and letting people avoid accidents or bad road conditions. Also it is telling people to slow down there is a cop ahead (which is something they utilize anyways, some states deploy cardboard cutouts of police vehicles to cause the illusion and force people to slow down).

If you don't like people using waze to avoid you, dont complain to journalists which will raise awareness of the app.
 
So the police can track us, but god forbid someone lets you know their *public* location. Fuck. The. Police.
 
kirbyrj said:
Perhaps people who "think" they are great at driving should slow down so as to not cause crashes and injuries to other unsuspecting, law abiding motorists. A financial reminder to stop driving like an ass isn't a terrible idea.
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Perhaps busybody stick-your-nose-where-it-doesn't belong people should keep their noses where they belong and stop trying to make everyone else conform to their Perfect World where What They Say Goes. Because speed limits are set lower than the roads and sight lines afford simply to facilitate the extortion of funds from people. And just because you can't drive well doesn't mean that's the case for others.
 
Knight_of_BAAWA said:
Perhaps busybody stick-your-nose-where-it-doesn't belong people should keep their noses where they belong and stop trying to make everyone else conform to their Perfect World where What They Say Goes. Because speed limits are set lower than the roads and sight lines afford simply to facilitate the extortion of funds from people. And just because you can't drive well doesn't mean that's the case for others.
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This is a discussion board Knight, you know, for discussion. You aren't trying to silence another guest's point of view just because you disagree with it are you? No, you would much rather engage them in useful debate happy for the opportunity to challenge your own views. A sanity check if you will :cool:
 
Knight_of_BAAWA said:
Perhaps busybody stick-your-nose-where-it-doesn't belong people should keep their noses where they belong and stop trying to make everyone else conform to their Perfect World where What They Say Goes. Because speed limits are set lower than the roads and sight lines afford simply to facilitate the extortion of funds from people. And just because you can't drive well doesn't mean that's the case for others.
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The police don't even set speed limits. The department of transportation does. Speed limits are set based on the roadway, previous crash data, the number of people/businesses, etc. that live in certain areas. You are simply ignorant to say that speed limits are set to extort people.

Conform to their perfect world? If you mean a perfect world where police don't have to pull dead bodies out of crashed vehicles due to speeding and DUI's...then yes, seems to me like they should keep trying to conform drivers to their "perfect world."
 
I think what would make Bawa and everyone else happier is a less visible police presence. It'd be kinda expensive, but by placing speed measuring devices and cameras on all roads, then linking them so that an automated system could simply assign fines based on violations would eliminate the need for police that people with the authority figure mental defect get upset about. We could basically automate the entire process, eliminate costly court appeals by just denying them outright and if people don't pay fines or are unsafe enough to lose their license, just go to their homes and take their cars away until they're allowed to drive again. You'd still need police to take their cars away, but pretty much everything else can be automatic.
 
CreepyUncleGoogle said:
I think what would make Bawa and everyone else happier is a less visible police presence. It'd be kinda expensive, but by placing speed measuring devices and cameras on all roads, then linking them so that an automated system could simply assign fines based on violations would eliminate the need for police that people with the authority figure mental defect get upset about. We could basically automate the entire process, eliminate costly court appeals by just denying them outright and if people don't pay fines or are unsafe enough to lose their license, just go to their homes and take their cars away until they're allowed to drive again. You'd still need police to take their cars away, but pretty much everything else can be automatic.
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I know you're the quintessential troll ;), but personally, I can't wait for a car that drives itself. And I hope a lot of people buy them.
 
kirbyrj said:
The police don't even set speed limits. The department of transportation does. Speed limits are set based on the roadway, previous crash data, the number of people/businesses, etc. that live in certain areas. You are simply ignorant to say that speed limits are set to extort people.

Conform to their perfect world? If you mean a perfect world where police don't have to pull dead bodies out of crashed vehicles due to speeding and DUI's...then yes, seems to me like they should keep trying to conform drivers to their "perfect world."
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^^^ Ya what he said, to think that one arm of the government would work in tandem with another arm of the government is just preposterous. Only a conspiracy theorist with a tin foil hat would believe such things are possible.

The speed limits make perfect sense if you don't think about it. Around here we have 2 lane roads that have driveways to peoples residence with elevation changes and the speed limit is 55MPH. We also have highways with 4 lanes going each direction with concrete walls and controlled on-ramps and off-ramps. They are also 55 MPH. Again if you just spend a moment to not think about it, it makes sense.

And speeding in general, I agree is very dangerous. Just think about all the professional race car drivers that die each year. It's got to be at least 40 or 50 or maybe a 100. I mean you drive at 180MPH, of course you are going to spontaneously crash and die. The government has already figured out that you can't go faster that 70MPH, they even made it illegal to do so.
 
Very good. Actually I think the cops are going easy on people who warn speeders about cop locations.

Arguably, as in a court of law, one can make a perfect valid case that because the cops is on Traffic Duty and is engaged in identifying and ticketing those who are in fact speeding and therefor violating the law, that anyone who warns said law-breakers is in fact aiding and abetting a criminal who is in the act of commission of a crime.

The cops are out there to enforce the law, the reason for enforcement is to keep the roads safer, and if speeders are part of the problem and themselves increase the risks for others, they need to be caught, not warned.

As in the link above, http://abcnews.go.com/US/texas-man-fights-charge-warning-drivers-speed-trap/story?id=21559309, this man was expressing himself but he was doing it in a manner that was also providing aid to people who are breaking the law. He could have expressed the exact same sentiment in many other ways.
 
westrock2000 said:
^^^ Ya what he said, to think that one arm of the government would work in tandem with another arm of the government is just preposterous. Only a conspiracy theorist with a tin foil hat would believe such things are possible.

The speed limits make perfect sense if you don't think about it. Around here we have 2 lane roads that have driveways to peoples residence with elevation changes and the speed limit is 55MPH. We also have highways with 4 lanes going each direction with concrete walls and controlled on-ramps and off-ramps. They are also 55 MPH. Again if you just spend a moment to not think about it, it makes sense.

And speeding in general, I agree is very dangerous. Just think about all the professional race car drivers that die each year. It's got to be at least 40 or 50 or maybe a 100. I mean you drive at 180MPH, of course you are going to spontaneously crash and die. The government has already figured out that you can't go faster that 70MPH, they even made it illegal to do so.
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You know there are roads in the US with higher speed limits right? I know I've seen 80MPH Speed Limits myself.
 
lcpiper said:
Very good. Actually I think the cops are going easy on people who warn speeders about cop locations.

Arguably, as in a court of law, one can make a perfect valid case that because the cops is on Traffic Duty and is engaged in identifying and ticketing those who are in fact speeding and therefor violating the law, that anyone who warns said law-breakers is in fact aiding and abetting a criminal who is in the act of commission of a crime.

The cops are out there to enforce the law, the reason for enforcement is to keep the roads safer, and if speeders are part of the problem and themselves increase the risks for others, they need to be caught, not warned.

As in the link above, http://abcnews.go.com/US/texas-man-fights-charge-warning-drivers-speed-trap/story?id=21559309, this man was expressing himself but he was doing it in a manner that was also providing aid to people who are breaking the law. He could have expressed the exact same sentiment in many other ways.
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Want there a case recently the judged ruled in favor of the defendant saying flashing your headlights to warn speeders of a cop is their first amendment?
 
lcpiper said:
This is a discussion board Knight, you know, for discussion. You aren't trying to silence another guest's point of view just because you disagree with it are you?
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No. Whatever would make you think I am?

And since this IS a discussion board: I can express MY opinion so long as it does not run afoul of the rules, right?
 
kirbyrj said:
The police don't even set speed limits.
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Never said they did.

kirbyrj said:
The department of transportation does. Speed limits are set based on the roadway, previous crash data, the number of people/businesses, etc. that live in certain areas.
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With input from the cops so they can extort people.

kirbyrj said:
Conform to their perfect world? If you mean a perfect world where police don't have to pull dead bodies out of crashed vehicles due to speeding and DUI's
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Yes, a world that cannot possibly exist at all.
 
Oh and as far as different parts of the government cooperating, right, in your dreams. They don't even cooperate when their job requires it. Anything with the words "Joint Task Group" is sure to be a dysfunctional herd of grab ass.

If you are affected by a Speed Limit Sign and think it's an improper or unsafe limit all you have to do is petition it to the Department of Transportation, at least they will reply with why the limit was set the way it was set.

Still, honestly, I personally think WAZE is ok as far as warning speeders goes. Face it, the cops will just use the App to post false police locations. Sheriffs can be so dense sometimes. On the other hand, there have been cops specifically targeted and killed and I do see a valid reason for them not wanting their locations posted, specially when they are in more remote areas farther from assistance.
 
Knight_of_BAAWA said:
No. Whatever would make you think I am?

And since this IS a discussion board: I can express MY opinion so long as it does not run afoul of the rules, right?
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This;
Perhaps busybody stick-your-nose-where-it-doesn't belong people should keep their noses where they belong and stop trying to make everyone else conform to their Perfect World where What They Say Goes.
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After re-reading it I think I thought you were talking about Kirbyi being the busybody, but I can see where you probably meant the cops. Much more likely that you would apply a ridiculous description to cops, doing exactly what we pay them to do, then to a fellow board member that you specifically quoted :p
 
They aggregate "public" information for their uses without needing special priveledge. Sauce for the goose.
 
lcpiper said:
Oh and as far as different parts of the government cooperating, right, in your dreams. They don't even cooperate when their job requires it. Anything with the words "Joint Task Group" is sure to be a dysfunctional herd of grab ass.

If you are affected by a Speed Limit Sign and think it's an improper or unsafe limit all you have to do is petition it to the Department of Transportation, at least they will reply with why the limit was set the way it was set.

Still, honestly, I personally think WAZE is ok as far as warning speeders goes. Face it, the cops will just use the App to post false police locations. Sheriffs can be so dense sometimes. On the other hand, there have been cops specifically targeted and killed and I do see a valid reason for them not wanting their locations posted, specially when they are in more remote areas farther from assistance.
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Very good points. Information is dangerous in the wrong hands, not that there is some magical pair of 'the right hands' to be found. I think that the app is fine and just makes the police step up their game and innovate just as radar detectors have.

By the way, do the sheriffs actively listen to CB radio to find which people are warning of speed traps as well? Seems just as accurate, more so I would say as there are less kids with access to CB than a smart phone app.
 
lcpiper said:
that anyone who warns said law-breakers is in fact aiding and abetting a criminal who is in the act of commission of a crime.
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Yes. But if you warn them, and they slow down to within the speed limit, they cease being a criminal because they are no longer perpetrating a crime.

The cops are out there to enforce the law
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No. OSTENSIBLY they're out there to enforce the law.
Realistically, they have quotas on tickets. And they are revenue generation officers.
At least in Illinois they are. Otherwise, how do you explain the state taking several municipalities to court over "municipal citations". Which are essentially smaller (amount) tickets where all the money goes to the municipality where the ticket was issued?
 
lcpiper said:
Oh and as far as different parts of the government cooperating, right, in your dreams. They don't even cooperate when their job requires it. Anything with the words "Joint Task Group" is sure to be a dysfunctional herd of grab ass.

If you are affected by a Speed Limit Sign and think it's an improper or unsafe limit all you have to do is petition it to the Department of Transportation, at least they will reply with why the limit was set the way it was set.

Still, honestly, I personally think WAZE is ok as far as warning speeders goes. Face it, the cops will just use the App to post false police locations. Sheriffs can be so dense sometimes. On the other hand, there have been cops specifically targeted and killed and I do see a valid reason for them not wanting their locations posted, specially when they are in more remote areas farther from assistance.
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Actually, it's the local municipality that sets the speed limits within the limits of the municipality. As long as they're BELOW the speed limits recommended by the DOT, they're fine (unless there are state laws REQUIRING them to use the DOT specification). And even then, there are municipalities which are "lax" in their compliance.

Which is why we have issues with some municipalities sandbagging on speed limits. Taking roads that are/were/should be 45mph zones and limiting them to 25 as if they were residential block streets.
 
jpm100 said:
They aggregate "public" information for their uses without needing special priveledge. Sauce for the goose.
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It's for "our" uses as well. They are hired by us, paid by us, they work for us. Seems you can't wrap your head around that bit of fact. The cops are acting "in your name" jpm100. How well they do it depends entirely on how involved you are in the process. I do know this much, you'll get farther by exercising your rights to influence the system from within, then from without.

Traffic cameras get green light from council
http://www.svherald.com/content/news/2012/07/30/319416
Agreement will pave way for more traffic enforcement cameras
http://www.svherald.com/content/news/2012/07/24/276976
Petition may put traffic cameras to a vote
http://www.svherald.com/content/sierra-vista-news/2014/03/24/370451
Traffic cameras turned off
http://www.svherald.com/content/submitted/2014/11/10/391860

It really just takes knowing how the system works and making the effort to change it.
 
Personally, I think the whole speeding ticket thing is supposed to be helping the public safety, but unfortunately has become a matter of being the easiest way to try to improve road safety, while gaining revenue. I would rather they focus on ticketing for things like changing lanes without a signal, tailgating, and impeding traffic (driving 15+ MPH below the speed limit, or failure to attain a common speed when merging... even for large vehicles). Not to mention fines and citations for things like dump trucks driving with gravel falling out the back creating flying debris that damages personal property.

I love Waze for my 46 mile commute in Houston traffic. Generally it's pretty accurate for avoiding traffic accidents and jams on my route. Honestly, the police feature isn't that accurate as most times when one is reported, they've moved on by the time I get there. If I pass a cop that hasn't been flagged, I don't feel comfortable reporting it because I'm driving and do my best not to touch my phone when driving anyways.
 
lcpiper said:
It's for "our" uses as well. They are hired by us, paid by us, they work for us. Seems you can't wrap your head around that bit of fact. The cops are acting "in your name" jpm100. How well they do it depends entirely on how involved you are in the process. I do know this much, you'll get farther by exercising your rights to influence the system from within, then from without.

Traffic cameras get green light from council
http://www.svherald.com/content/news/2012/07/30/319416
Agreement will pave way for more traffic enforcement cameras
http://www.svherald.com/content/news/2012/07/24/276976
Petition may put traffic cameras to a vote
http://www.svherald.com/content/sierra-vista-news/2014/03/24/370451
Traffic cameras turned off
http://www.svherald.com/content/submitted/2014/11/10/391860

It really just takes knowing how the system works and making the effort to change it.
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I haven't had a voice in politics for decades. Its six of one or half dozen of the other. I know this by the fact no matter how unpopular a program is, if the other guy gets in office, they never undo it. Did Obama close gitmo? Did the Republican dial back the spending to levels just a few year prior to their asent to congress? Do the Republicans have an active plan to remove Obamacare? Just about anything of signifigance the answer is no with a very rare yes. This crap reaches down all the way into my State level too. I've seen an election change the course of this ship only once and it was 35 years ago and that was the last of that.

So no, I don't have a voice on the matter.
 
Guess if they are going to attack this, they need to go after the other services like it.
 
If it really is a safety factor, why don't cops just set a bunch of fake speed trap alerts. Should get people to slow down regardless...
 
Obama was NEVER going to close GITMO, GITMO is a Marine Military Base that is very large and strategically very important that we have invested a ton of cash into because it's completely isolated and independent of all Cuban Utilities. GITMO produces it's own clean water, power, natural gas and fuel is shipped in by the Navy, it is completely autonomous. I know you only think of GITMP in terms of the prison but GITMO is so much more then that it is ridiculous to even consider shutting it down. It was a campaign promise he never intended and had no hope of fulfilling.

Problem comes when you only think of politics or your control of politicians as a top down thing. The stuff I linked to is an example of real politics and the way to influence change is from the bottom up, not the top down.
 
lcpiper said:
Obama was NEVER going to close GITMO, GITMO is a Marine Military Base that is very large and strategically very important that we have invested a ton of cash into because it's completely isolated and independent of all Cuban Utilities. GITMO produces it's own clean water, power, natural gas and fuel is shipped in by the Navy, it is completely autonomous. I know you only think of GITMP in terms of the prison but GITMO is so much more then that it is ridiculous to even consider shutting it down. It was a campaign promise he never intended and had no hope of fulfilling.
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Yeah, I'm pretty sure it was always about closing Guantanamo Bay detention camp, not the whole damn base...lol.

Reality comes when you think of politics or your control of politicians as a top down thing.
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FTFY

The stuff I linked to is an example of real politics and the way to influence change is from the bottom up, not the top down.
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You linked one topic. There is 10,000 examples of them going against what the people want.
 
around where my wife lives the speed limit goes form 65 to 55 to 45 in about 1/2 a mile. the town which a population under 500 that this road goes though that has a police station a gas station and a few houses way off the main 2 lane each way road there is all ways a cop at that gas station and they are all ways pulling people over.
 
Pure_Platinum-190, you know the GITMO Detention Facility existed long before 9/11, because all major military bases have detention centers on them. They are normally used to detain soldiers who have been bad boys and girls, usually those who have committed the equivalent of a Federal Offense while on the Base or while deployed overseas. In GITMO's case, the facility was expanded greatly in order to accommodate the foreign detainees and POWs. So still, it wasn't going to be shut down, only it's list of detainees removed to other locations or released.
 
tunatime said:
around where my wife lives the speed limit goes form 65 to 55 to 45 in about 1/2 a mile. the town which a population under 500 that this road goes though that has a police station a gas station and a few houses way off the main 2 lane each way road there is all ways a cop at that gas station and they are all ways pulling people over.
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Of course, small town, small problems. Of course if the town wanted they could always have him play WoW instead. He could sell accounts off for profit if the town thought it would beat what he brings in from traffic tickets. What is the officers supposed to do in a one dog town with nothing going on, enforce the law perhaps? He's doing his job and if people weren't speeding through there he wouldn't be writing tickets there. Now if he is running a real speed trap then it's illegal and it can be stopped just by going to the State over it. I know a city outside Fort Hood, Texas, called Nolanville that ran a bad speed trap for years, always preying on the Soldiers there. State came in and shut them down, for years they weren't even allowed to patrol the highway through there at all.

It's not like things can't be fixed, they just don't get fixed by doing what this dude did with his sign.
 
lcpiper said:
Pure_Platinum-190, you know the GITMO Detention Facility existed long before 9/11, because all major military bases have detention centers on them. They are normally used to detain soldiers who have been bad boys and girls, usually those who have committed the equivalent of a Federal Offense while on the Base or while deployed overseas.
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No shit Sherlock. However you were the one ranting about how "Obama was NEVER going to close GITMO" when the real discussion has always been about stopping the torture of human beings and releasing the innocent human beings, and then just not doing that kind of evil shit ever again. So don't turn around slide sideways with your wording.

lcpiper said:
So still, it wasn't going to be shut down, only it's list of detainees removed to other locations or released.
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Again, it wasn't ever about closing the whole damn base, just about stopping the being super evil part. So closing GITMO has always = Stop torturing people + Stop being fucking evil. You know, Guantanamo Bay detention camps current purpose.
 
So because of the spat between the cops and the mayor, NYPD stopped writing traffic tickets. December 2014 tickets written were 587. December 2013 tickets were 71,385 tickets. That's 70,798 unwritten moving violations. Let that sink in for a minute. Now, where are the reports of MASSIVE CIVILIAN CASUALTIES due to speeding and reckless driving for 2014 versus 2013 due to all those people not getting tickets?
 
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