Senators Propose a Tax Holiday Tech Companies Would Love

CommanderFrank

CommanderFrank

Cat Can't Scratch It
Joined
May 9, 2000
Messages
75,399
Let’s say that you owe back taxes to the IRS for the past 15-20 years and the government offers you a repayment plan at a huge reduction and no penalty. You would jump on the deal like a duck on a Junebug. :D That is basically what a proposed bill would do for major corporations that presently have all of their cash stockpiled outside of the US.

The Boxer-Paul plan stems from Congress' opposition to raising the gas tax, which has traditionally gone towards the Highway Trust Fund.
Click to expand...
 
Actually I have no problems with money made in other countries not being taxed in the US. Apple sells iPhones in Japan, then let Japanese taxes deal with all sales there. THat said, 6.5% tax on something I think shouldn't be taxed and they actually like it? Well the hell yeah!

Although not sure how one would consider what money was "brought home" it's not like banks have borders.
 
I'm not a tax expert nor do I understand business law. My question would be why would a company even take advantage of this deal? Let's pick on Apple. I know they have a boat load of cash elsewhere.
Advantages to bringing it to the US (I'm thinking out loud - I'm not a business person and shouldn't even try to play one on TV):
1. Could invest it in the US. Otherwise, I spend it outside of the US. For an international company, do I care where I invest it? Stability, skilled workers, and technology a major plus to where I open new plants/research/office buildings.
2. Other countries will want to tax the money or make me a deal to get me to build in their country.
3. Avoid litigation from the US. Even if I come out "clean", I've spent a lot of money on legal fees fighting Uncle Sam. Still wonder - will other countries not want some of Apple pie?
4. Presumably, Apple (and other companies) have a nice cash pile in the US already. A bigger cash pile is generally never a bad thing.
 
The US Federal Gas Tax hasn't changed in almost 22 years, but I'm pretty sure the cost of the things it's supposed to pay for have gone up just a bit.

Just raise it to where it should be (accounting for inflation) and then index it so it doesn't get stuck in the past again.
 
webdev511 said:
The US Federal Gas Tax hasn't changed in almost 22 years, but I'm pretty sure the cost of the things it's supposed to pay for have gone up just a bit.

Just raise it to where it should be (accounting for inflation) and then index it so it doesn't get stuck in the past again.
Click to expand...

Nah, I prefer my roads to be undrivable in 20 years.
 
sfsuphysics said:
Actually I have no problems with money made in other countries not being taxed in the US. Apple sells iPhones in Japan, then let Japanese taxes deal with all sales there. THat said, 6.5% tax on something I think shouldn't be taxed and they actually like it? Well the hell yeah!

Although not sure how one would consider what money was "brought home" it's not like banks have borders.
Click to expand...

That's not the real problem. The real problem is when a US company sells something in the US, yet pays no taxes, because all the taxable profit was "spent" on technology royalties to subsidiaries in low-tax countries like Ireland.

The US division ends up looking like it made zero profit (and a 19% tax on nothing is nothing), while the foreign division made billions (and paid some trivially small percentage on it)

The US isn't the only one getting screwed either. Every country that deals with international corporations has this problem. This is why the EU has been so upset with Ireland's tax policy recently.
 
sir-gold said:
That's not the real problem. The real problem is when a US company sells something in the US, yet pays no taxes, because all the taxable profit was "spent" on technology royalties to subsidiaries in low-tax countries like Ireland.

The US division ends up looking like it made zero profit (and a 19% tax on nothing is nothing), while the foreign division made billions (and paid some trivially small percentage on it)

The US isn't the only one getting screwed either. Every country that deals with international corporations has this problem. This is why the EU has been so upset with Ireland's tax policy recently.
Click to expand...

Hmm. I actually thought the Netherlands had an even more favorable tax policy.
 
webdev511 said:
The US Federal Gas Tax hasn't changed in almost 22 years, but I'm pretty sure the cost of the things it's supposed to pay for have gone up just a bit.

Just raise it to where it should be (accounting for inflation) and then index it so it doesn't get stuck in the past again.
Click to expand...

They can't be trusted to keep the revenue for the intended purpose as they've demonstrated. So, no.
 
jpm100 said:
They can't be trusted to keep the revenue for the intended purpose as they've demonstrated. So, no.
Click to expand...

Wait , are you implying simply taking more money from the people and giving it to the federal government won't magically make roads better and the world full of roses ?
 
webdev511 said:
The US Federal Gas Tax hasn't changed in almost 22 years, but I'm pretty sure the cost of the things it's supposed to pay for have gone up just a bit.

Just raise it to where it should be (accounting for inflation) and then index it so it doesn't get stuck in the past again.
Click to expand...

More people have contributed to that in the last 22 years. 50% increase in fuel sales. But does that directly correlate to a 50% lower lifetime for the roads?

Roads should be one of the MOST important things we spend money on. It is something that everyone of every walk of life uses. Roads are one of the few "tax dollar" investments that everyone gains from.

So that being said, we shouldn't have to rely on a gas tax. There should be real actual funding set aside for roads instead of other less useful things.

highlights38_gasoline.PNG
 
westrock2000 said:
More people have contributed to that in the last 22 years. 50% increase in fuel sales. But does that directly correlate to a 50% lower lifetime for the roads?

Roads should be one of the MOST important things we spend money on. It is something that everyone of every walk of life uses. Roads are one of the few "tax dollar" investments that everyone gains from.

So that being said, we shouldn't have to rely on a gas tax. There should be real actual funding set aside for roads instead of other less useful things.

highlights38_gasoline.PNG
Click to expand...
Revenue is about 25 billion dollars. Did folks forget the 800 billion dollar spending increase for things like the roads. Basically the gas tax revenue for 32 years. Roads should be perfection by now.
 
Ah, another "lower taxes" bill that will actually lead to nothing but some special interests (who probably $uggested the idea to the senators) gaining some profit.
 
Can someone explain to me why so many rich people (even celebrities) all appear to keep their wealth in trusts/charitable trusts? Is it for lower taxes or protecting it from something else like owning property anonymously?
 
Pure-Platinum-190 said:
Can someone explain to me why so many rich people (even celebrities) all appear to keep their wealth in trusts/charitable trusts? Is it for lower taxes or protecting it from something else like owning property anonymously?
Click to expand...

Lower taxes is one of the big reasons, yes. The other big reason is protection from relatives, descendents and even your own self who may irresponsibly spend the wealth you have earned. By setting up a trust fund, you get a lot more control over what happens to the wealth you have earned after you die, or become no longer able to make good decisions and become vulnerable to sycophants and gold diggers.
 
evilsofa said:
The other big reason is protection from relatives, descendents and even your own self who may irresponsibly spend the wealth you have earned.
Click to expand...
How does a trust protect you from yourself? So you can't override it once you've agreed to the terms of it?

By setting up a trust fund, you get a lot more control over what happens to the wealth you have earned after you die, or become no longer able to make good decisions and become vulnerable to sycophants and gold diggers.
Click to expand...
How does it differ from a will with aspect to after you're dead?
 
webdev511 said:
The US Federal Gas Tax hasn't changed in almost 22 years, but I'm pretty sure the cost of the things it's supposed to pay for have gone up just a bit.

Just raise it to where it should be (accounting for inflation) and then index it so it doesn't get stuck in the past again.
Click to expand...


The answer is toll roads.

Things wrong with gas taxes:
1) MPG is constantly getting better. Revenue from gas tax will fall over time and you'll have to tax elsewhere.
2) Drivers of electric cars are allowed to drive on the roads but essentially pay next to nothing for their upkeep.
3) Drivers in areas with a lot of toll roads already are essentially double taxed.
4) Why should Houston drivers pay gas taxes that build/repair bridges in Pittsburgh?

These are local problems that need to be paid for by users.
 
Pure-Platinum-190 said:
How does a trust protect you from yourself? So you can't override it once you've agreed to the terms of it?

How does it differ from a will with aspect to after you're dead?
Click to expand...

An irrevocable trust does exactly that - you can't override it once you've agreed to the terms of it, and that is a very large part of what makes it differ from a will. Obviously, if you're going to sign your assets away to an irrevocable trust fund, you're going to put a hell of a lot of thought into what it will do. This is particularly attractive if your family history is prone to dementia or Alzheimer's, for example, and you want to guard against losing your mind and changing your will to benefit some bottom feeder instead of your family.

A will distributes whatever you had amongst whoever survives you, and they get to do whatever they want with it. If you're talking about a large amount of wealth, there is nothing that causes family fights and endless lawsuits like estates with large sums of money. Irrevocable trusts are a defense mechanism against all that.
 
Good idea, really dumb timing. No one is going to do it when they will lose so much money in currency conversion
 
sir-gold said:
That's not the real problem. The real problem is when a US company sells something in the US, yet pays no taxes, because all the taxable profit was "spent" on technology royalties to subsidiaries in low-tax countries like Ireland.
Click to expand...

Yeah. Tech company A(pple) spins off a subsidiary with all of their patents. They then "pay" that subsidiary to license the patent, even if it's just a paper entity; those "costs" to an offshore entity then are used to write down profits. The offshore entity then books those licensing "profits" as offshore income.
 
Pure-Platinum-190 said:
How does a trust protect you from yourself? So you can't override it once you've agreed to the terms of it?

How does it differ from a will with aspect to after you're dead?
Click to expand...

A trust also is a legal entity, and I believe much of it has to do with not needing to pay estate taxes as nothing is transferred when you die - the trust owns it, not you.

It used to be trusts had only certain legal timeframes they could exist; but now states race to the bottom setting up legal statutes for perpetual trusts.
 
webdev511 said:
The US Federal Gas Tax hasn't changed in almost 22 years, but I'm pretty sure the cost of the things it's supposed to pay for have gone up just a bit.
Click to expand...
22 years ago, it cost far more to build and maintain a mile of road than it does today, thanks to advances in machinery and techniques making roads cheaper and more durable, and there are vastly more vehicles on the roads meaning far more revenue is being generated.

There's no need to raise gas taxes, but there is a need to stop giving preferential treatment to minority businesses and the like, with union labor where one guy is making $15 an hour just to hold up a "caution workers" sign, with four other guys watching one guy actually work.
 
Ducman69 said:
22 years ago, it cost far more to build and maintain a mile of road than it does today, thanks to advances in machinery and techniques making roads cheaper and more durable, and there are vastly more vehicles on the roads meaning far more revenue is being generated.
Click to expand...

I'd love to see actual data showing it's cheaper to build roads today than it was before; particularly in light of how developed we are. I'd posit it was cheaper then before it was so built up than it is now.

Further, far more vehicles on the road, with substantially better MPG, means more wear and tear on the road and less gas taxes paid for the wear.
 
evilsofa said:
An irrevocable trust does exactly that - you can't override it once you've agreed to the terms of it
Click to expand...

To correct myself, trusts can be and are more complicated than that. Trusts can be updated, or you can have more than one trust (I am not a trust attorney). Case in point is Robin Williams' trust and also serves as an example of what it is you are motivated to protect against with a trust.
 
Pure-Platinum-190 said:
Can someone explain to me why so many rich people (even celebrities) all appear to keep their wealth in trusts/charitable trusts? Is it for lower taxes or protecting it from something else like owning property anonymously?
Click to expand...

Trusts are a way that the super wealthy can keep money from being taxed for generations. There was a blurb about that in the WSJ when the most of the Bush tax cuts were made permanent.

I suspect it's because people die, but trust funds do not ;)
 
Team Obi Juan said:
The answer is toll roads.

Things wrong with gas taxes:
1) MPG is constantly getting better. Revenue from gas tax will fall over time and you'll have to tax elsewhere.
2) Drivers of electric cars are allowed to drive on the roads but essentially pay next to nothing for their upkeep.
3) Drivers in areas with a lot of toll roads already are essentially double taxed.
4) Why should Houston drivers pay gas taxes that build/repair bridges in Pittsburgh?

These are local problems that need to be paid for by users.
Click to expand...

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that 1/2 of the interstate costs are paid by the Federal government. Houston toll roads are not funded by the federal government and you're paying a toll, because local voters voted for them. If houston wasn't the poster child for sprawl, you wouldn't be on a tollway. I remember when the only loop was 610. There might have been a toll in the NW (well outside the loop), but that was it. Then came the toll section of Beltway 8.

FWIW, I'm pretty sure TX get's it's share of highway funds. I've never been on a TX highway that wasn't under construction. They start at one end, fix/widen the road and then start over again 5 or 10 years later. Besides, you live in TX. You've got some of the cheapest gas in the country (and I live in a place with gas that's not far behind).
 
TwistedAegis said:
A trust also is a legal entity, and I believe much of it has to do with not needing to pay estate taxes as nothing is transferred when you die - the trust owns it, not you.

It used to be trusts had only certain legal timeframes they could exist; but now states race to the bottom setting up legal statutes for perpetual trusts.
Click to expand...

Bingo! Trusts allow you to take care of the relatives that haven't been born, without paying estate tax.
 
nilepez said:
Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that 1/2 of the interstate costs are paid by the Federal government. Houston toll roads are not funded by the federal government and you're paying a toll, because local voters voted for them. If houston wasn't the poster child for sprawl, you wouldn't be on a tollway. I remember when the only loop was 610. There might have been a toll in the NW (well outside the loop), but that was it. Then came the toll section of Beltway 8.

FWIW, I'm pretty sure TX get's it's share of highway funds. I've never been on a TX highway that wasn't under construction. They start at one end, fix/widen the road and then start over again 5 or 10 years later. Besides, you live in TX. You've got some of the cheapest gas in the country (and I live in a place with gas that's not far behind).
Click to expand...

The Houston/Pittsburgh example was just a hypothetical. Pittsburgh was on 60 Minutes recently as an example for why we need to raise the federal gas tax. I don't want them to pay for my roads any more than I want to pay for their's. Eliminate the gas taxes and let the market find a way to repair and build new non-interstate roads. I am for federal funding at the interstate level.
 
nilepez said:
Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that 1/2 of the interstate costs are paid by the Federal government. Houston toll roads are not funded by the federal government and you're paying a toll, because local voters voted for them. If houston wasn't the poster child for sprawl, you wouldn't be on a tollway. I remember when the only loop was 610. There might have been a toll in the NW (well outside the loop), but that was it. Then came the toll section of Beltway 8.

FWIW, I'm pretty sure TX get's it's share of highway funds. I've never been on a TX highway that wasn't under construction. They start at one end, fix/widen the road and then start over again 5 or 10 years later. Besides, you live in TX. You've got some of the cheapest gas in the country (and I live in a place with gas that's not far behind).
Click to expand...

Please address my other points about tolls being better than gas taxes. Teslas pay no gas taxes, yet drive the roads all the same. Higher MPG cars pay less and less tax at the pump, but are still wearing down roads. Taxing at the pump is not an effective method for taxing usage.
 
webdev511 said:
The US Federal Gas Tax hasn't changed in almost 22 years, but I'm pretty sure the cost of the things it's supposed to pay for have gone up just a bit.

Just raise it to where it should be (accounting for inflation) and then index it so it doesn't get stuck in the past again.
Click to expand...

Is it a fixed number or a fixed PERCENTAGE?


By their nature if it is a %, then it is already "self updating", the more you win/spend, the higher you will pay through the ages.
 
Washington state is working on setting up a pay-per-mile system, where residents choose between paying a flat-fee, by having odometers checked, or with an electronic device installed in cars to measure how many miles are driven.

Aside from not making out-of-state drivers pay, that last bit makes the heads of privacy advocates explode.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top