why is Asus and Linksys Router cable thinner than my credit card?

what happens to RJ-45 cable that is round? You know w/ shielding around it. How on earth does asus bundle their router, as well as Linksys, and I'm talking about a $250 WRT1900AC that I just bought

It seems these 2 brand names (they are the only 2 I use) buy their RJ-45 cable from the same OEM manufacturers.

It's just a thin piece of cable, thinner than my cr. card. How can there be enough shielding in it?

Its twisted pair only need shielding for security purposes and you always paid extra. The other cable ain't shielded its just thicker

Happy Hopping said:

what happens to RJ-45 cable that is round? You know w/ shielding around it. How on earth does asus bundle their router, as well as Linksys, and I'm talking about a $250 WRT1900AC that I just bought

It seems these 2 brand names (they are the only 2 I use) buy their RJ-45 cable from the same OEM manufacturers.

It's just a thin piece of cable, thinner than my cr. card. How can there be enough shielding in it?

Click to expand...

The RJ-45 cable that I have been using all these yr. are not twisted pair. And yet their diameter is say a few mm, maybe 4 to 5 mm. We have been seeing these RJ-45 cable for at least a decade, and rarely are they twisted pair.

The straight thru still needs shielding. What happens to Electron Drift ? Did the law of physics change lately? I have just recently seen these cheap cables. I think some OEM manufacturer is just being cheap

If it is a short run why would it matter? It is still twisted pair and most likely shielded. Its probably 26 to 28awg which is perfectly fine for 12" - 36" or more. Plus if it is indeed twisted and shielded you will not get much cross talk or electrical interference.

because w/ the thickness of the cable thinner than my cr. card, there is little or no shielding. When we cable ties our cables, electron drift, that is, the direction of the electron in 1 cable, if tie close to or bundle w/ another cable (say the above linksys cable), and that cable shielding is not enough, the electron drift effect will kick in, and drift the electron of the other cable to the wrong direction

Okay, i'm not going to get in a disagreement, but there is no such thing as rj-45 cable, Thats a connector thats usually associated with Unshielded Twisted Pair. Its all UTP unless your using fiber or coax.

The Ethernet physical layer evolved over a considerable time span and encompasses quite a few physical media interfaces and several magnitudes of speed. The speed ranges from 1 Mbit/s to 100 Gbit/s, while the physical medium can range from bulky coaxial cable to twisted pair and optical fiber.

Even cat 1 telephone cable is Un shielded twisted pair:
http://www.firewall.cx/networking-topics/cabling-utp-fibre/112-network-cabling-utp.html

There is zero change you at home have enough cable bundled for cross talk to matter at all. Its actually part of the cat-whatever specification that it CAN be grouped in bundles unshielded

Happy Hopping said:

because w/ the thickness of the cable thinner than my cr. card, there is little or no shielding. When we cable ties our cables, electron drift, that is, the direction of the electron in 1 cable, if tie close to or bundle w/ another cable (say the above linksys cable), and that cable shielding is not enough, the electron drift effect will kick in, and drift the electron of the other cable to the wrong direction

Click to expand...

If you were able to reproducibly demonstrate such a problem as you are describing, that would be interesting. But I notice that you are not complaining about actually experiencing any of these problems.

So, the answer to your question "Why are the cables so thin?" is simply: "Because they can be that thin."

that is what my professor taught me at university. And I don't agree w/ you that they can be that thin.

If it's a fiber optic cable, then you're right, as it's a light source, there is no electron.

For the purpose of most home use ethernet CAT5 / 6 cable from your router to your PC, they should be shielded. Look at the other cables at the back of your PC:

your power cable, your DVI cable, etc. They all have a certain reasonable diameter to protect the wiring inside, aka shielding

Happy Hopping said:

They all have a certain reasonable diameter to protect the wiring inside, aka shielding

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I think there is some confusion in this thread, you seem to be referring to the sheath when you say shielding. At least that's what I take from you posts, I don't know though, your English is a little confusing.

Maybe this diagram will help. Shielded cables have metal foil, which isn't from what I can gather what you are talking about? You seem to be referring to the sheath?

http://www.monoprice.com/Product?c_id=102&cp_id=10208&cs_id=1020814&p_id=9557&seq=1&format=2 this is 100ft (!) flat Ethernet Cat 5e. Even the outdoor cables with weather proof sheath, typically flooded with some sort of silicon grease are not particularly thick. There's no need. The twisted wires mostly take care of the interference. Now the good ole' 10BASE5, every greybeard's favorite frozen yellow garden hose THAT was a ... to work with.

munkle said:

I think there is some confusion in this thread, you seem to be referring to the sheath when you say shielding. At least that's what I take from you posts, I don't know though, your English is a little confusing.

Maybe this diagram will help. Shielded cables have metal foil, which isn't from what I can gather what you are talking about? You seem to be referring to the sheath?

Click to expand...

I do mean shield.

Look at this photo, compares to the 1 at monoprice:



which 1 would you buy? All the ethernet cable that I have seen in the past decade looks like the above (blue cable)

then in the past 6 to 9 mth., these really thin 1 (like the 1 at mono) surface

I doubt that blue cable you're posting is shielded. Most ethernet cables are not--at least none that I've ever messed with, and I've made a lot of cables. I'd probably opt for a twisted pair cable, but if they can do that in a flat cable more power to 'em. For ultra short runs, like 1-3 feet, I doubt even having actual twisted pair matters much.

That is an UNshielded TWISTED cabled. Like the picture shown to you previously. It does NOT have the foil in that cable. Period. Go cut open one of your so called "shielded" cables and you'll see it does not contain any shielded foil in it. It's just twisted pairs.

Your professor is wrong. Even the flat ribbon cables are UTP. The only difference the sheathing makes it adding a layer of protection to physically damaging the cable. I've dealt with shielded cable. the only people who use it regularly are government. and defense and financial institutions. Its designed to prevent leakage that can be picked up with exterior equipment is has zero to do with preventing bit flipping. The thickness of the plastic around the cable matters for nothing else other then physical protection.

Any Ethernet cable that is rated cat 1-6 is designed to work in bundles as unshielded twisted pair.

Guess i lied about getting into an argument but i don't want people to see this thread and be as utterly misinformed as the guy who taught you this is.

Happy Hopping said:

I do mean shield.

Look at this photo, compares to the 1 at monoprice:



which 1 would you buy? All the ethernet cable that I have seen in the past decade looks like the above (blue cable)

then in the past 6 to 9 mth., these really thin 1 (like the 1 at mono) surface

Click to expand...

That cable isn't shielded, it would have metal jackets around the end if it was, like this one. The only difference between that one you posted and the flat one is the twisted pairs are laid flat as opposed to grouped together in a round sheath.

Basically you are complaining about this:



Compared to this:



One is laid flat the other isn't, both are unshielded twisted pairs. (well that flat one I posted is actually shielded, the other one posted isn't, but you can see the layout)

In the end, the cable that comes with the Router is short enough where it wont matter. Unless your house has tons of devices that are high powered and would leak a ton of electrical radiation....... Aka a factory.

Alright, let's go back to square 1, let's say those old blue color ethernet cable were never shield, then how on earth do we protect ourselves from electron drift all these decades if we were to cable ties a bunch of different cable together?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drift_velocity

Happy Hopping said:

Alright, let's go back to square 1, let's say those old blue color ethernet cable were never shield, then how on earth do we protect ourselves from electron drift all these decades if we were to cable ties a bunch of different cable together?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drift_velocity

Click to expand...

You protect yourself by not worrying about it because its not an issue. If none of your cables have a metal jacket around the connector then they are not shielded. I bet you aren't using any shielded cables, and you haven't run into any problems yet so stop worrying about it.

Happy Hopping said:

Alright, let's go back to square 1, let's say those old blue color ethernet cable were never shield, then how on earth do we protect ourselves from electron drift all these decades if we were to cable ties a bunch of different cable together?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drift_velocity

Click to expand...

The square 1 you're asking for goes back quite a ways. Alexander Graham Bell solved that problem in 1881 by inventing twisted pair cabling.

Happy Hopping said:

Alright, let's go back to square 1, let's say those old blue color ethernet cable were never shield, then how on earth do we protect ourselves from electron drift all these decades if we were to cable ties a bunch of different cable together?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drift_velocity

Click to expand...

I think you're greatly exaggerating the effects of EMI/crosstalk in modern cables.

The flat cable is merely a different physical footprint which happens to be more aesthetically appealing (nicer to look at) for some people. If you were to cut it open, the wires inside would still be in twisted pairs. The 'shielded' cabling that you reference, as several prior responders have pointed out, is not actually shielded, it is simply contained within a different physical shape jacket/sheath.

With respect to electromagnetic interference/crosstalk, the twisting of the wire pairs is done intentionally to mitigate these types of interference. The standards for twisted pair cabling provide a specification on the number of twists per inch to meet the necessary transmit speeds over the cable without crosstalk. Signal degradation is addressed via standards on the length of installed cabling.

It is possible for there to be significant enough electromagnetic interference from other sources that it could potentially interfere with transmissions on the cable, despite the use of twisted wire pairs, so that is where the foil shielding may be useful. In most cabling installations, this is not a major concern, so people generally install unshielded twisted pair (UTP) cabling. If you are not trusting of Internet sources, then I would suggest picking up a Network+ study guide/textbook as they do go into these physical cabling standards in some detail.

well, that's good to know. it's been educational. I've never seen a metal cap RJ-45 cable before. Thanks everyone