Auto Industry Forming Consortium To Fight Hackers

I hate to break it to these guys but, as long as you have computers in cars, they can be hacked.

“The goal is to make it very, very hard” for hackers to breach a vehicle’s security system, said Strickland, who is doing some consulting work for one of the participants. “Can you make it a zero risk? No, but you want to make it so hard that you can foreclose most opportunities.”

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simple first steps, require keys to get in the car, don't allow any sort of information to wireless be transmitted from the car. The end.

sfsuphysics said:

simple first steps, require keys to get in the car, don't allow any sort of information to wireless be transmitted from the car. The end.

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You don't drive for a few days, or the car sits idle for a while.. hop in "Please hold while wireless updates begins... Estimated update time 4 hours 14 minutes 22 seconds"

Damn, looks like I'm walking today.

sfsuphysics said:

simple first steps, require keys to get in the car, don't allow any sort of information to wireless be transmitted from the car. The end.

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Well this assumes that an electronic key is more insecure than a physical one. Which it isn't in fact the techniques for picking,slipping, opening physical locks are quite readily available while the techniques for getting pas a car's electronic lock isn't quite established.

The real problem is that people think they need computerized entertainment/navigation/communications systems in vehicles.

Do away with all that crap and most of the problem will go away.

The whole idea of having keyless locks is also stupid. What happens when the battery dies?

As somebody who has been working on cars since before I was a teenager, the only thing I see happening with all the added gadgets in cars is the fact that it makes it harder to work on them. a.k.a - cash cow for the dealerships.

Sure, obd2 may sort of help sometimes.. for timing, fuel mixture, etc readouts, but the error codes that are given are for the most part very general unless something is completely dead and for those types of issues, you don't need a code anyway.

“The goal is to make it very, very hard” for hackers to breach a vehicle’s security system, said Strickland"

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I can hear people out there right now saying "challenge accepted".

Semantics said:

Well this assumes that an electronic key is more insecure than a physical one. Which it isn't in fact the techniques for picking,slipping, opening physical locks are quite readily available while the techniques for getting pas a car's electronic lock isn't quite established.

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False, I know for a fact that it's quite easy to get past the 2014 Grand Cherokee keyless entry and ignition systems. Mine was stolen right out of my fucking garage. Luckily it was found a day later.

Grahamkracka said:

False, I know for a fact that it's quite easy to get past the 2014 Grand Cherokee keyless entry and ignition systems. Mine was stolen right out of my fucking garage. Luckily it was found a day later.

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I don't think your vehicle being stolen makes his statement false. He didn't say one kind can be stolen and other can't be. He said it makes it harder and I agree with him, not impossible. It costs more money for the tech required for someone to steal a newer vehicle compared to an older vehicle. that makes it harder, not out of the realm of possibility. Both can be stolen.

Someone spent some dough getting the tech required to steal your vehicle (not saying the thief, he could just know someone with it).

Auto Industry Forming Consortium To Fight Hackers

Welcome to the 1970's assholes!

It'll only take these guys about 30 years to get up to speed with threats in 2014...leaving them still, 30 years behind the curve.
And they're never really going to solve the "physical access = owership" issue.

The Consortium would have a better chance fighting for air with a plastic bag over their head. Seriously, I don't need a fricken computer in my car. Get rid of that crap.

cyclone3d said:

The real problem is that people think they need computerized entertainment/navigation/communications systems in vehicles.

Do away with all that crap and most of the problem will go away.

The whole idea of having keyless locks is also stupid. What happens when the battery dies?

As somebody who has been working on cars since before I was a teenager, the only thing I see happening with all the added gadgets in cars is the fact that it makes it harder to work on them. a.k.a - cash cow for the dealerships.

Sure, obd2 may sort of help sometimes.. for timing, fuel mixture, etc readouts, but the error codes that are given are for the most part very general unless something is completely dead and for those types of issues, you don't need a code anyway.

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The entertainment systems are not necessarily a bad thing. I rather enjoy having a great stereo in my vehicle and the added bonus of in-dash navigation is cool too. What I don't like is that the car companies have tied all of these systems in together. If you disconnect the stereo in my car, the car will not start or run. If you leave it sit with a dead battery for too long, you have to have three different computer modules reprogrammed before you can drive the car again.

I don't see why they have to tie everything in together, other than perhaps your point about it being a cash cow for authorized service technicians a.k.a. dealership mechanics. As with all things IT, physical access is total access, so you will never be able to eliminate the possibility that someone can plug into your OBD2/scanner port and wreak havoc on the system, but outside of that connection, I see no reason why any vehicle needs an on-board computer system that interfaces with anything else. If you want a stereo with WiFi and navigation, fine, but don't tie it into the rest of the drive systems of the vehicle. That is just asking for trouble as soon as someone figures out how to hack into it via a vulnerability in the navigation unit's WiFi, then can jump to whatever other on-board computer systems they want...

Chas said:

Auto Industry Forming Consortium To Fight Hackers

Welcome to the 1970's assholes!

It'll only take these guys about 30 years to get up to speed with threats in 2014...leaving them still, 30 years behind the curve.
And they're never really going to solve the "physical access = owership" issue.

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I suppose some kind of advanced biometrics might work, but then we'll just see people chopping off people's fingers or gouging out their eyeballs to steal cars...

I figured it out: the problem is people! Just eliminate people and all of the problems go away!

MasonDesigno said:

I don't think your vehicle being stolen makes his statement false. He didn't say one kind can be stolen and other can't be. He said it makes it harder and I agree with him, not impossible. It costs more money for the tech required for someone to steal a newer vehicle compared to an older vehicle. that makes it harder, not out of the realm of possibility. Both can be stolen.

Someone spent some dough getting the tech required to steal your vehicle (not saying the thief, he could just know someone with it).

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He said "techniques for getting pas a car's electronic lock isn't quite established". However, if there is stand alone tech than easily enable someone to steal a car, that would mean the technique is quite well established. It's not new phenomenon. IIRC BMW and Mercedes key less entry/ignition systems have been compromised for a while now.

amddragonpc said:

The Consortium would have a better chance fighting for air with a plastic bag over their head. Seriously, I don't need a fricken computer in my car. Get rid of that crap.

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Good luck designing the modern fuel efficient engines that produce as much power as they do without the usage of computers. If it were possible, auto manufacturers wouldn't bother with the additional costs.

Grahamkracka said:

He said "techniques for getting pas a car's electronic lock isn't quite established". However, if there is stand alone tech than easily enable someone to steal a car, that would mean the technique is quite well established. It's not new phenomenon. IIRC BMW and Mercedes key less entry/ignition systems have been compromised for a while now.

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Cool beans and i can slip into any car made before mid 2000's pretty easily and start them up by the good old physical means of stealing cars, it's super easy if you know what you're doing hell you can take classes on it. IIRC any keyless entry hack has been not as readily available to thieves and most times the hack only gained access to the car didn't help them start it. To start it, it required physical access inside to jack into the car and an additional hack. Again physical locks aren't necessarily any better than electronic ones.