HardOCP News
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Windows 8.1 Update 2 Coming August 12th?
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Insula Gilliganis
[H]ard|Gawd
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Yeah.... good for MS.. now get on with producing some good stuff!!
Yeah.... good for MS.. now get on with producing some good stuff!!
This is good stuff.
MS is building good momentum right now. Lets hope the new CEO doesn't gimp them.
Tengis
Supreme [H]ardness
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Nothing wrong with Windows 8.1... better then 7. I cant even begin to understand how my technologically inept wife can use it and navigate easily within 30 minutes while self proclaimed techies cry constantly.
8.1 > 7
8.1 > 7
Yup, my techno-luddite wife loves 8.1.
My 5 year old rolls around it with ease.
Most self proclaimed "techies" are just self proclaimed.
Me too. Windows 3.1/3.11, 95 and 98 were all awesome. Hell NT4.x and 2000 were left off of that stupid image and they were awesome as well. We should include server OS in these as well. NT4.0, Srv2000, 2003, 2008 2012 are all very good.
DejaWiz
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Because, as you just said, she's technologically inept. Windows 8 was designed for exactly that kind of user, imo (and I'm far from alone in that opinion, either). "Push the big, pretty icon to get your program/game running, *or* Press the Start Button, then go to All Programs, then find the subfolder that contains the shortcut of the program/game you want to run." Which is easier? Win8 by a long shot.
Windows 8 is also severely non-compatible with a lot of programs and applications in use at a lot of enterprise environments. They have no choice but to stick with Win7 as the newest OS validated and deployed. Sucks for Microsoft, since Enterprise customers are their largest source of revenue and profit. ...and non-compatibility is one of the foundational reasons why a lot of "self proclaimed techies cry constantly" about Win8. That, and because of the radical change in the GUI (Metro), it would be a help-desk and training nightmare...humans are creatures of habit, primarily.
Red Falcon
[H]ard DCOTM December 2023
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I agree, but Server 2008 was only so-so, but 2008R2 was great.
While there are probably incompatibilities I am not necessarily sure about the true negative affects on long-term profitability of these companies for Microsoft. These companies are most likely less willing to upgrade their machines and buy new windows licenses, but will still give money to Microsoft for Office which is where Microsoft makes a majority of its money from. As for individuals their habits will adapt slowly as more and Windows computers adopt Windows 8 and they use it out of work. It is not like changing to another OS will help mitigate the help desk calls. I am also a bit confused by the odd juxtaposition of how "simple" Windows 8 is and how much help desk support it would require.
I have been using windows 8.1 for a few months and I like it a lot more than 7 already.
BTW Windows 98 non SE was garbage
Comixbooks
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Windows 8 was the best system so far for installing since I first tried 95 back in 1996-97
SSD drive helps tons along with easy to update serial #
SSD drive helps tons along with easy to update serial #
Ashbringer
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If something works with Windows 7, it should work with Windows 8(.1). There are no massive kernel compatibility changes as we saw with the transition from XP (9x) to 7 (NT).
8(.1)'s barrier to entry is the new UI, not app compatibility.
ManofGod
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What programs work on Windows 7 but not 8? All I ever see people bitch about is WHERE IS MY F*CKING START MENU YOU A$$HOLES. I don't ever see people complain about things not working in general. I personally have not had a single program not work under windows 8 that works under 7. So I would be interesting in hearing a few programs off of this massive list.
As for the UI change. people would get used to it quickly. Just like they did when Office changed. The average user is going to be in desktop mode most of the time and not really notice the new start screen. But that aside, like I said I don't know of any such lack of compatibility that you are refereeing to.
DejaWiz
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I am also a bit confused by the odd juxtaposition of how "simple" Windows 8 is and how much help desk support it would require.
I have been using windows 8.1 for a few months and I like it a lot more than 7 already.
BTW Windows 98 non SE was garbage
-non-compatibility/non-familiarity in a corporate environment driven by workers that rely on habit to perform their daily duties = a hell of a lot more help desk calls.
-I much prefer Win8 on a touch-based device, like a laptop or tablet with a touch screen. Microsoft still should not have abandoned the Start Menu when running in Desktop mode...and given the option to choose either Metro or Desktop as the default boot mode on Windows 8 release day.
-Oh man, I hear you there. Then SE came out, there was much rejoicing in the IT departments across the world.
A 5 year old easily uses an interface designed for 5 year olds. There's the breakthrough revelation of the day.
Meanwhile everyone else wasn't having it -- most consumers and just about every business and enterprise. Even Microsoft has already cut bait and run, but apparently there are a few ding dings and fanboys left that haven't heard they've lost this silly debate and all the anecdotal "my grandma uses it just fine" are now irrelevant because there simply weren't enough of those grandmas and five year olds to really matter.
DejaWiz
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Think of the bigger picture: Energy Companies, Government Agencies, Fortune 500 companies...all of them with vast libraries of software for the vast number of employees that perform a vast number of different duties/tasks. And a lot of that software is proprietary (custom made for that specific company/agency, even to do menial things, like monitor sensors in a manufacturing plant)...they can't just flip a switch and magically have everything compatible with this newest OS. It takes a long time to either: get these programs recoded to be compatible with the newest OS, or find an alternative program that is compatible, but offers the same (or more) functionality.
And you are absolutely wrong in saying "The average user is going to be in desktop mode most of the time and not really notice the new start screen." That is exactly the problem. What takes the average home user maybe 3-30 days (depending on the person) to get used to Windows 8 through trial and error, the average office worker will have to be allotted the same timeframe, but also while being expected to perform their duties and be productive. When they can't figure shit out starting at day 1, their first instinct is to ask a coworker for help. When the coworker can't help because he/she is experiencing the same frustration, the next step is to call the help desk. And then a torrid flood of "How do I...?" category calls come in.
ManofGod
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A 5 year old easily uses an interface designed for 5 year olds. There's the breakthrough revelation of the day.
Meanwhile everyone else wasn't having it -- most consumers and just about every business and enterprise. Even Microsoft has already cut bait and run, but apparently there are a few ding dings and fanboys left that haven't heard they've lost this silly debate and all the anecdotal "my grandma uses it just fine" are now irrelevant because there simply weren't enough of those grandmas and five year olds to really matter.
Lost? Silly debate? Since something just works, it is not a debate, just fact.
But hey, I will not be surprised when the same folks whining about the Modern UI will be whining in a couple of years because Microsoft has not changed anything in 21 years and they are going to go bankrupt because of it. Curious though if some of those full screen app improvements on the start screen are going to show up in this update.
Been saying this ever since I started using 8. It's noticeably snappier than 7, even on modern hardware. I agree with everyone that 7 was great (by MS standards), but 8.1 is simply a refinement that makes several improvements while changing up a part of the UI that's rarely used on the desktop anyway. Even if that change isn't to your liking, it just isn't that big of a deal -- not big enough to outweigh the advantages of maximizing speed and getting continued updates for the foreseeable future.
Hit win key and type. No subfolders.
Right click start menu, power users paradise:
I work in an ENT environment, and very few of our applications don't work well in 8.1, and all of those only because they are no longer developed or we have yet to purchase newer versions.
The few test users that have been given 8 love it after boot to desktop is enabled. The legacy "start" menu is cumbersome. This is a better approach, it still has kinks, but in the long haul it will work better.
Domingo
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I've grown to enjoy Windows 8, although it took quite a bit of tinkering and much of it wasn't easy to do thanks to MS hiding and protecting the "All Programs" folders.
I was actually hoping this was going to be the "start menu is back" update, but it seems that has moved to Windows 9 or whatever they call it. I think that alone would fix Windows 8 for a lot of people.
I was actually hoping this was going to be the "start menu is back" update, but it seems that has moved to Windows 9 or whatever they call it. I think that alone would fix Windows 8 for a lot of people.
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How did Windows 95 suck.
yea windows 8 is pretty good and probably the most stable initial release of any version of windows i've ever used. There are things i hate like getting the 8.1 update through the store (annoying). But the guts of 8.1 are just better and i like how they integrated server things into it such as the new task manager/resource monitor and hypervisor.. its neat as shit.
Yeah I don't see how anyone could say that. It initially had it's problems because it was so different than anything else previous to it, but it introduced many interface and operating system features that are still used today.
probably bitter it introduced the star bar that windows 8 took away
DejaWiz
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Hit win key and type. No subfolders.
Right click start menu, power users paradise:
I work in an ENT environment, and very few of our applications don't work well in 8.1, and all of those only because they are no longer developed or we have yet to purchase newer versions.
The few test users that have been given 8 love it after boot to desktop is enabled. The legacy "start" menu is cumbersome. This is a better approach, it still has kinks, but in the long haul it will work better.
And I repeat...
ManofGod
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Yet, you claim that Windows 8 is designed for the technically inept. So, your users must be IT experts going by that. After all, since your users cannot figure it out without calling the help desk, they must be experts. Oh, and many of the custom programs most likely do not work in Windows 7 either or for that matter, Vista.
It has to suck otherwise his chart is wrong.
And immediately, you divide yourself directly into the "proclaimed techie" group.
XP /= 9x. XP = NT.
DejaWiz
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-Yep, and that's my opinion of Windows 8.
-Umm, what? The fact is that most users in a business environment are habit driven lemmings and have become acclimated to a GUI that's been used with very little change for the past 20 years. Doesn't mean they're IT experts. It simply means they are capable, familiar, and proficient because of the years and years of experience they have garnered doing the same thing over and over for years and years.
-I work for an energy company and most programs that don't work on Win8 DO WORK on Win7, as that's been our standard OS validated deployment for over 3 years now. We have LOTS of software that won't work on Win7, but will work on WinVi, just as there is still some software that won't work on WinVi, but will on WinXP. Our dev depts are working their asses off to get the XP only software updated to work with at least WinVi, if not Win7. They is only a small number (probably count the total on a full set of fingers and toes) of software packages left to transition, but they are making amazing progress on that front.
When it comes to a business environment, it takes time to transition things (read: years). Microsoft knows this...fuck, they live by that same sword. With Win8 radical GUI changes, they chose to swing that sword at everyone's necks, figuratively speaking. Problem is, they completely missed their mark and drew their own blood, instead.
If the radical GUI change wasn't such a problem, then why the hell have 3rd Party programs to add the Start Button and Start Menu back in been so popular from pretty much day 1? While this kind of fix is fine and dandy for most typical home users, 3rd Party software is usually a big no-no in a corporate environment. This also begs an answer to the question that's been widely asked and pondered for some time now: If Microsoft doesn't think the root of low Win8 adoption rates are because of the missing Start Button and Start Menu in the initial release, then why all the hard work to get them added back in for rather fast subsequent Win8 releases/updates?
Ashbringer
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If it's for idiots, how many systems do you have running it?
Ha ha, yea I get the joke. But seriously, just two machines I have run Windows 7 and everything runs Linux Mint. I would install Mint on my desktop machines if it wasn't for the huge loss of performance in Windows games. Wine guys should seriously support DX9 state tracker.
Ashbringer
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It didn't but it fits the sine wave unless you have it. The truth is Windows didn't suck until Windows ME. After that it wasn't until Vista, and then Windows 8. But I imagine 95 has a bad reputation because of how quickly it turned computers from an office only thing to a home thing.
Kinda like when Scotty tried to use the mouse as a speaking device to run an old PC circa 1980. Oh wait, wasn't Scotty suppose to be brilliant?
Sometimes a kid can do things better/faster because you yourself expect a much higher-level of experience. You go into the ring expecting a 500-lb gorilla, and only to find a wind-up circus monkey and it takes you a little bit to figure out WTF is going on.
Kwisatz Haderach
Gawd
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Why does everyone leave out Windows Bob on all the graphics?