Best Gaming Monitor?

black.hat

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Some of us have bought that Samsung off eBay, we're currently waiting for it to ship.
 
To me a "gaming" monitor

oh, fk it... :p

To me the best monitor PERIOD should have fantastic motion clarity. So there are only a handful of monitors out there that can compete right now at all. Basically you can take the entire list of IPS/PLS/TN panels available on the market and stuff em in my opinion, they all suck in one way or another, and most of them especially suck at motion clarity.

The Sony FW900 22.5" viewable CRT, and someone around here has exquisite examples but just a couple remaining, is probably the best "gaming"/overall monitor in existence, but its from another era basically, and so I'm sure it won't make your list just for being super old and, more importantly, nearly 100 pounds+very large. It's basically a 1440p monitor with perfect everything that runs @ like 200Hz 1080p or something ridiculous. I have been considering buying one but I think I'm going to just have to get over it.

First off: what games are we talking? People looking for "gaming" monitors are usually shooting things, so my #1 pick might not be the best choice for them specifically (it's a tic slower than the rest of the monitors on the list I'm about to make). I like pretty much all types of games but I usually avoid shooters.

As far as what's on the mainstream market right now I personally see it like this:
#1 Eizo FG2421 (lottery winning example)
#2 Benq XL2420Z (new firmware without flicker bug in strobe mode)
#3 Benq XL2720Z (as above)
#4 ASUS VG248QE with GSYNC PCB Installed
#5 Benq XL2720T or Benq XL2420TE or ASUS VG278HE

I'm 33 years old and my eyes are not super sharp. 1080p on a 27" monitor doesn't look like a million dollars to me, but it's plenty immersive if the graphics are good and I can crank up the AA. I like a gaming monitor to be easy to see and 1440p can get crazy detailed especially when trying to read text that is scrolling. I want deep deep blacks, and huge contrast ratio so I can see in the dark, if you will. That way you can see a black bear at night because he's not the same black as the shadowy landscape and pitch black starry sky. Or say we're in a dungeon--everything's dreary and monotone to me on almost every "monitor" I've ever seen. Not the case on my Fg2421, although it has its moments of weirdness, too. What it doesn't have is horrible backlight bleeding and grey or tinted purple or green blacks, which pretty much every other display on that list will exhibit, to a degree.

I'm thinking:
If your budget is truly unlimited, and you want the best "gaming"/all-around monitor on the market right now: you should buy an Eizo Duravision FDF2405W. It is the A+ version of the FG2421 and is basically used for making 3-d maps, among anything else you can think of where perfect gradients between black and white are critical.

Then again, if you don't want to spend $6,000 on a 1080p display I guess you could gamble on a Korean Qnix/X-Star overclockable 1440p or even a glossy Catleap 2BOC. Overlord Computers sells those monitors with a better chassis but they are always sold out and they often have a few stuck pixels, or will get them sooner or later. So many people around this forum are jumping on the Qnix 2710 boat lately, as if it will soon set sail never to return. These monitors are very affordable and great for input lag, but pixel response is pretty average I think, and although they are big and have beautiful colors, they are limited to 1000:1 contrast ratio (or less) and you just don't get those piano blacks+virgin white from top to bottom end to end. They tend to more or less look like they have glowing circles emanating from the corners when given solid shades and they are cheap in every way imaginable besides this. They literally have buttons on them that don't do anything.

TL; DR
Made a top 5 "gaming" monitors list. I've placed an order for the #2 on my list above to see if Newegg is carrying Benq Z series monitors with the new unbugged firmware yet.

With all do respect for large budgets, 4k monitors really don't belong on the gamer's table yet.
 
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unlimited you say, hmmm, then go for Eizo Duravision or Sony Trimaster OLED :)
 
bluesun's response should be stickied to handle this ever-recurring question.

(no offense intended to askers of this question, as i've asked it here myself...more like props to bluesun for the detailed but concise response)
 
bluesun's response should be stickied to handle this ever-recurring question.

(no offense intended to askers of this question, as i've asked it here myself...more like props to bluesun for the detailed but concise response)

While I certainly appreciate the vote of confidence--it's really just a list of what's currently available as far as NIB 120Hz+ strobing backlight monitors.

Not entirely sure why I put the 2 Benq z series monitors there because those 2 have firmware problems... technically they should be up there but I wouldn't suggest people go out and buy those, in particular, until things are more settled or they know exactly what they are looking for and have a free return policy. It almost kinda looks like Benq is going to let those 2 monitors flop and just focus on really nailing the GSYNC versions, which should be really fantastic.
 
To me a "gaming" monitor

oh, fk it... :p

To me the best monitor PERIOD should have fantastic motion clarity. So there are only a handful of monitors out there that can compete right now at all. Basically you can take the entire list of IPS/PLS/TN panels available on the market and stuff em in my opinion, they all suck in one way or another, and most of them especially suck at motion clarity.

The Sony FW900 22.5" viewable CRT, and someone around here has exquisite examples but just a couple remaining, is probably the best "gaming"/overall monitor in existence, but its from another era basically, and so I'm sure it won't make your list just for being super old and, more importantly, nearly 100 pounds+very large. It's basically a 1440p monitor with perfect everything that runs @ like 200Hz 1080p or something ridiculous. I have been considering buying one but I think I'm going to just have to get over it.

First off: what games are we talking? People looking for "gaming" monitors are usually shooting things, so my #1 pick might not be the best choice for them specifically (it's a tic slower than the rest of the monitors on the list I'm about to make). I like pretty much all types of games but I usually avoid shooters.

As far as what's on the mainstream market right now I personally see it like this:
#1 Eizo FG2421 (lottery winning example)
#2 Benq XL2420Z (new firmware without flicker bug in strobe mode)
#3 Benq XL2720Z (as above)
#4 ASUS VG248QE with GSYNC PCB Installed
#5 Benq XL2720T or Benq XL2420TE or ASUS VG278HE

I'm 33 years old and my eyes are not super sharp. 1080p on a 27" monitor doesn't look like a million dollars to me, but it's plenty immersive if the graphics are good and I can crank up the AA. I like a gaming monitor to be easy to see and 1440p can get crazy detailed especially when trying to read text that is scrolling. I want deep deep blacks, and huge contrast ratio so I can see in the dark, if you will. That way you can see a black bear at night because he's not the same black as the shadowy landscape and pitch black starry sky. Or say we're in a dungeon--everything's dreary and monotone to me on almost every "monitor" I've ever seen. Not the case on my Fg2421, although it has its moments of weirdness, too. What it doesn't have is horrible backlight bleeding and grey or tinted purple or green blacks, which pretty much every other display on that list will exhibit, to a degree.

I'm thinking:
If your budget is truly unlimited, and you want the best "gaming"/all-around monitor on the market right now: you should buy an Eizo Duravision FDF2405W. It is the A+ version of the FG2421 and is basically used for making 3-d maps, among anything else you can think of where perfect gradients between black and white are critical.

Then again, if you don't want to spend $6,000 on a 1080p display I guess you could gamble on a Korean Qnix/X-Star overclockable 1440p or even a glossy Catleap 2BOC. Overlord Computers sells those monitors with a better chassis but they are always sold out and they often have a few stuck pixels, or will get them sooner or later. So many people around this forum are jumping on the Qnix 2710 boat lately, as if it will soon set sail never to return. These monitors are very affordable and great for input lag, but pixel response is pretty average I think, and although they are big and have beautiful colors, they are limited to 1000:1 contrast ratio (or less) and you just don't get those piano blacks+virgin white from top to bottom end to end. They tend to more or less look like they have glowing circles emanating from the corners when given solid shades and they are cheap in every way imaginable besides this. They literally have buttons on them that don't do anything.

TL; DR
Made a top 5 "gaming" monitors list. I've placed an order for the #2 on my list above to see if Newegg is carrying Benq Z series monitors with the new unbugged firmware yet.

With all do respect for large budgets, 4k monitors really don't belong on the gamer's table yet.

Eizo Duravision FDF2405W sounds promising, the only question is, am i really going to benefit from this monster? usually these super pro monitors are used for some certain programs that require super high res. considering that i am going to use it for gaming and internet browsing as i explained before.

You asked what kind of games do i play, mostly racing games, NFS, but also BF. Now i am comparing Eizo Duravision FDF2405W to that Samsung U28D590D.
 
From Blurbusters.com:

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Capture2_zpsbc3d0f48.jpg~original


There's a longer list of discontinued models that are true 120Hz, but the big new thing (not actually so new anymore) is Lightboost. I personally like Lightboost even more than 240Turbo from my Fg2421 (which is overpriced and under-QC'd) but it dims the display considerably. The more bur reduction you dial in, the dimmer the display becomes.

I've knocked out several Lightboost displays that I've had on my table. I liked them a lot, they are for graphic motion primarily and I think they even make browsing and productivity more pleasing than 60Hz monitors; however, the greyish blacks they tend to give (all around the whole damn display you'll get backlight bleed from these in LB mode) along with just generally washed out-colors that are hard to tell apart make all of these TN gaming monitors essentially drab and dim. I currently have a Benq 2420z otw to test. I'm prepared for the worst and returning it will be easy if I feel the need. I would be shocked if I ended up keeping it, as it would mean someone at [H] gets a good deal on a used fg2421.

I much prefer the deep contrast ratio of the only VA 120Hz display currently on the mainstream market: the Eizo fg2421, which I went through a whole lot of examples (4) to find a decent one and is currently on my desk. These monitors are not all good obviously and the variance between the issues they can have is rather staggering. At its best, this panel will still sometimes make big mistakes, but compared to the alternatives, I think it wins, sort of... Spectacular fail in a way also. Buyer beware and be prepared to have to exchange or just return it for refund and try something else.

I also have the other type of display category people are using widely for gaming right now on its way from South Korea--a Matte X-Star DP2710LED 1440p monitor that I'm excited to finally take a first person look at. I considered bidding on a glossy from a reseller in the US that was dumping there's but I actually want a matte monitor at this point (due to lots of windows in my test lab er... bedroom), so I'm glad that these supposedly have a pretty high quality Anti-Glare matte coating and are good and cheap at the moment. A lot of people are recommending dream-seller on eBay for this purchase and when I get mine in I'll weight in on their QC service and delivery as I've paid a very small premium for the Perfect Pixel version @334USD, which is supposed to have fewer than 3 stuck pixels, if any. Got instant +1 feedback from them, so I take that as a good sign.

That should round out the 3 major types of gaming monitors people are using right now and I can be a little more sure of myself on making a top 5 list. I do think the Rog Swift will immediately go to the top spot or #2 but it remains to be seen if the Benq GSYNC versions will knock it out of the park or not. A lot more people will benefit from 1080p gaming monitors at this point, imo.
 
Eizo Duravision FDF2405W sounds promising, the only question is, am i really going to benefit from this monster? usually these super pro monitors are used for some certain programs that require super high res. considering that i am going to use it for gaming and internet browsing as i explained before.

You asked what kind of games do i play, mostly racing games, NFS, but also BF. Now i am comparing Eizo Duravision FDF2405W to that Samsung U28D590D.

No, I really can't recommend the Duravision (or the fg2421) for YOU unless you are completely obsessed with contrast ratio and grey to black gradients and willing to die for it. For time critical games like CS:GO and Battlefield it is going to be just slow enough to get you killed sometimes and piss you off. :)

But I absolutely want to steer you away from that 4k display you are considering because it's not going to give good motion at all. It's simply not designed for that. 4k displays will not be good for motion until they have integrated strobing effects from their backlights. This technology is only just about to be unveiled in a 1440p display, which is not coming out as fast as everyone hoped it would. These things are very, very complicated.

That said, the Duravision is a 1080p monitor and would absolutely be the best gaming monitor on the planet (particularly 3 of them in portrait) if that tiny extra tic of lag didn't matter. The dithering issues fg2421 users have to learn to love are presumably not there on the $6000 version. Have to assume they cheaped out on the processing power in the gaming display--I suspect you could haggle with a distributor over the price of the Duravision line, the MSRP is $6k).

For racing games, I do not find the slight bit of lag from my FG2421 to be significant at all. I'm also extremely competitive and highly competent on track in racing "games", so I want to say it's low enough lag that compensating naturally in a real-time racing sim is much easier than it is in a first-person-shooter. I have heard multiple people that really liked this monitor give up on it because it was getting them bad results in the time-critical games they play.

My suggestion for you, then--is to try out any of the fastest 120Hz monitors available. The TN's. Personally I like the 27" Asus VG278HE just fine. It has backlight bleed and pretty dreary colors but it will knock your socks off in 2d games with Lightboost on. It may piss you off doing some other things, like browsing, looking at photos, etc, same kind of goes with the VA panel in the fg2421 but for different reasons, and less annoying issues. Considering ALL of these gaming monitors are 1080p, with the exception of the overclockable Korean monitors, which are 1440p--there's not really any reason to spend crazy money on them. They all have some flaws in the technology, and may or may not also have individual flaws in the panels or coatings, there is no perfect gaming monitor.

Now, if you want to toss what is most important about games (at least games that aren't based on static images) out, it will open up your alternatives considerably. I still wouldn't get myself a 4k monitor for gaming even if I had an unlimited budget (and I don't), but if we're lowering our standards to 60Hz, well that's a whole other thread, man. And I'm just not interested in anything with a refresh rate that low.
 
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Thanks for the explanation, yeah i didn't notice that the samsung was 60hz, now the FG2421 is absolutely great but it is only 23 inch, i was hoping for at least 27 inch.

That Duravision however is still an option for me. my last question is, what's your opinion on ASUS PQ321Q 31.5-Inch 4K? i was actually unable to find the refresh rate of it.
 
The Asus is 60hz, has a 16ms signal delay and a low 240hz LED PWM Dimming frequency (as does the 32" Dell and the Sharp is even worse) which increases motion blur, makes motion look slightly jittery vs. a PWM free monitor, causes flicker (depends on the person) and some people to get head aches and/or eyestrain. Along with 30" monitors like the Dell 3014 (dat overshoot ghosting) the 4K 30" monitors are the anti-<insert deity> to gaming.

My Qnix QX2710 is glow free and the light bleeding is easy to fix. Either they use 160hz PWM and glow normally or are glow free and are PWM free like mine, no idea as to which is more common.

If I had an unlimited budget I would buy one of these new glow free Eizo's, the Eizo Duravision, a Sony FW900, a glossy Yamakasi 2B or Qnix/X-Star, a delay free 1080p TV for console gaming, an OLED TV for movies & TV and 2x Titan Blacks.

I'd also buy 4 of these: http://shop.benq.us/lighting/table-lamp/coral-reef-table-lamp-silver.html for sacrifices.
 
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If I had an unlimited budget I would buy one of these new glow free Eizo's, the Eizo Duravision, a Sony FW900, a glossy Yamakasi 2B or Qnix/X-Star, a delay free 1080p TV for console gaming, an OLED TV for movies & TV and 2x Titan Blacks.

Sigh... such a beautiful list.

OK
BUT what if you had to pick ONE of them to use ALL the time?

I just don't want an FW900. I'll fall in love with it, it's ugly, i'll start tinkering with it and break it... it's just not a good idea. I was seriously considering buying one from Uncle Vito (LAGRUNAUER) and I won't say what I was prepared to pay him, but he's the first to admit "you get what you pay for". That's the best all around display, sort-of, but it's really small folks, let's be honest, 22.5" viewing is little bitty to me. When I registered at [H] I had just given up a 52" Sony Bravia I had been using for a monitor :rolleyes: for a couple months... (I did an EDID override on it and overclocked it on HDMI, but it didn't really like it so I took it off... couple days later, 3 dead pixels popped up). I thought it was quite nice to watch movies on from a long way away but it was obviously not a good desktop gaming solution. So the search began. If I could have 2 monitors, the other would be the Yamakasi 2B OC, I guess, but this is shaky ground--you have to buy from questionable people lol... Then again I shop at Newegg :eek:
But that Duravision is pretty badass. I like my FG2421 a lot, but I definitely wish it was better. I wish it was more like a TN in some ways, the corner distortion on the Eizo is weird but TN blacks are weirder. The Eizo ghosts and smears and takes time to warm up. It's also not as fast as the lightboost TNs. Maybe the Duravision isn't as Godly as I'm assuming it would be, I'll never see one probably, but either way, the strange display that is the FG2421 is still really hard to beat for an all around gaming monitor, and then, shit if you have unlimited funds, I'd buy like about 20 of them and then cherry pick the 3 best (half will randomly restart and 3/4 will have pixel defects) and put them in a portrait array like Vega's. Vega is straight up with people about his monitors not being perfect, though, and his are all on AVR sine-wave battery backups, like mine is now (mine's stepped lol), and so maybe ours would random restart if we didn't, but I doubt it. There are major QC problems with the Eizo. You are probably a lot less likely to get a completely messed up Korean PLS off eBay.
 
Bluesun311 said:
BUT what if you had to pick ONE of them to use ALL the time?

I would buy the 25" Sony OLED monitor if it has a sub <25ms delay since I have a massive back-log of console games to play and want to play Infamous Second Son, Killzone 4, the next Uncharted, next Halo, Gears, ect...
 
The Asus is 60hz, has a 16ms signal delay and a low 240hz LED PWM Dimming frequency (as does the 32" Dell and the Sharp is even worse) which increases motion blur, makes motion look slightly jittery vs. a PWM free monitor, causes flicker (depends on the person) and some people to get head aches and/or eyestrain. Along with 30" monitors like the Dell 3014 (dat overshoot ghosting) the 4K 30" monitors are the anti-<insert deity> to gaming.

My Qnix QX2710 is glow free and the light bleeding is easy to fix. Either they use 160hz PWM and glow normally or are glow free and are PWM free like mine, no idea as to which is more common.

If I had an unlimited budget I would buy one of these new glow free Eizo's, the Eizo Duravision, a Sony FW900, a glossy Yamakasi 2B or Qnix/X-Star, a delay free 1080p TV for console gaming, an OLED TV for movies & TV and 2x Titan Blacks.

I'd also buy 4 of these: http://shop.benq.us/lighting/table-lamp/coral-reef-table-lamp-silver.html for sacrifices.

I went with Eizo Duravision. probably gonna get an LG OLED.

Just curious, What else would you buy if you had an unlimited budget?
 
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I'd buy NCX all of the items he listed as well as a basICColor discuss and i1 pro..
 
So how is it? Can you post some feedback / pics / video related to gaming?

The interweb is kinda empty on Duravision...
 
I agree with Bluesun311 but would caution you to consider that some g-sync monitors will probably come out by the second half of this year and during the next year. Hdmi 2.0 and displayport 1.3 should be out during that time period (year end+) too, and 20nm gpus by year end. So g-sync dynamic hz and ulmb(alternate zero blur backlight strobing mode called "ulta low motion blur") monitors, faster gpus, and higher bandwidth ports on both at some point.

I personally have my eye on the asus PG278Q 2560x1440 120hz tn with g-sync/ulmb modes. Hoping to upgrade to dual 20nm at year end in order to get 100fps+ on more games so I can use ulmb more instead of relying on g-sync at lower fps and missing out on zero blur. Until then L4D2, TF2, and isometric rpg's will hit well over 100fps with my current gpu so at least some games would be able to use ulmb mode instead of g-sync mode.

The eizo fg2421 seems nice too barring a few panel lottery issues, and would get a lot more fps out of any given gpu power at 1080p than a 2560x1440 monitor would. It's input lag is a little higher than I would like, it's panel lottery issues, and the fact that it doesn't have g-sync as an option to the backlight strobing mode, and that I have a huge preference/requirement for 27" monitors are making me look to the asus instead. Also the rez even if I have to wait awhile for the dual gpu setup to feed it better.
 
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Right now with 4k monitors finally in a reasonable price point with the Samsung .. but since its a first generation of its type (4k and TN) its really not good to jump on board at the moment. Outside of 4k you have G-sync/Freesync technologies to consider as well and right now only one monitor supports G-sync and its an add on feature.

I would wait. Come back in a year and the landscape could be quite different. You could get something then that is much more expensive now and save yourself some headaches/money.
 
in regard to high hz and high rez bandwidths changing

HDMI 1.4 increases the maximum resolution to 4K × 2K, i.e. 3840×2160 (4K Ultra HD) at 24 Hz/25 Hz/30 Hz or 4096×2160 at 24 Hz (which is a resolution used with digital theaters);

HDMI 1.4b was released on October 11, 2011.[153] One of the new features is that it adds support to 3D 1080p video at 120 Hz -allowing frame packing 3D format at 1080p60 per Eye (120 Hz total)

HDMI 2.0 increases the maximum TMDS per channel throughput from 3.4 Gbit/s to 6 Gbit/s which allows for a maximum total TMDS throughput of 18 Gbit/s.[156][157] This allows HDMI 2.0 to support 4K resolution at 60 frames per second (fps)

The goal of DisplayPort 1.3 is to support 8K resolution, possibly with light compression (HDMI can use color channel compression). The bandwidth of DisplayPort 1.3 is said to reach 8.1 Gbps per channel or 32.4 Gbps in total. For comparison, HDMI 2.0 caps out at 18 Gbps. Besides 8K support (7680 × 4320 and 8192 × 4320), it will enable users to power two 4K displays with a single cable, and it will also add support for modes such as 4K@120 Hz and 3D in 4K resolution. It will, like DisplayPort 1.2, also support color depths higher than 8-bit, such as 10-bit and 12-bit per primary color. In other words; amazing picture quality.

Of course you need at least two powerful gpus to average 100fps on the more demanding games at even 2560x1440 at the moment, and as newer gpus come out (20nm end year), more demanding games will come out (2015), so in regard to graphics ceilings I doubt you would have much gains at very high resolutions+high hz in regard to fps for a long time unless there were a huge leap in gpu power in the pricing hierarchy. That makes even a 4k 120hz panel using displayport 1.3 a far off release and in regard to high fps achievable by me very distant as well. Otherwise not interested in 4k personally so that would be off the table completely for the foreseeable future.
 
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possible upgrade from benq xl2410t to fg2421,is it worth ? need better colours,i cant afford anymore the washed colours of tn..
 
If you can get a good FG2421 without too bad of edge glow then absolutely.

FG2421 VA >>>>> Benq TN. I had an XL-2420TE and hated the TN colors on it. Plus you get backlight strobing if you desire. The only issue is input lag is higher than most would like with 240 Hz strobing on (17 ms).
 
Well i got now 5ms with 2410 at instant mode..for sure 17ms will be noticeable at 240.
I dont know without strobing..probably much less..
Only running bf4 like pro sometimes..so the only hesitation is the input lag for this panel.
 
If you can get a good FG2421 without too bad of edge glow then absolutely.

FG2421 VA >>>>> Benq TN. I had an XL-2420TE and hated the TN colors on it. Plus you get backlight strobing if you desire. The only issue is input lag is higher than most would like with 240 Hz strobing on (17 ms).

Based on the impressions of the FG2421 thread getting a proper monitor is RARE. Lots of people just exchange over and over again hoping for one without any number of flaws.

I wouldn't recommend it to anyone that can't buy it locally and easily return it (Fry's , Micro-center).
 
Based on the impressions of the FG2421 thread getting a proper monitor is RARE. Lots of people just exchange over and over again hoping for one without any number of flaws.

I wouldn't recommend it to anyone that can't buy it locally and easily return it (Fry's , Micro-center).

I find returning things locally to be infinitely more of a pain in the ass than returning them to good online retailers.

We don't have a Fry's or a Microcenter here but I lost no money at all repeatedly buying/returning FG2421s to Newegg, Provantage and B&H Photo. It really wasn't a pleasant experience, but neither was repeatedly returning any of the other 120Hz strobing monitors I've tried, which all also had various issues. Monitors are probably returned even more often than motherboards. In the end, I found I wouldn't be looking for anything but a VA panel 120Hz or no.
 
I'm with ya Bluesun311. Just ordered an FG2421 from B&H. Got sick and tired of playing the TN/IPS game. I'm at the point now where I'm willing to live with quirks such as crosshatching and slight coloring on the side just to get inky blacks for some solid gaming.
 
Haha :D Newegg gave up and took the Eizo FG2421 off their site catalog completely.

I wonder if since B&H is on the East Coast you are more likely to get a unit that shipped from Europe? They will probably still say Made in Japan on the sticker but I did get my shipping notice from UPS today and the origin point was actually in NY. Provantage, Newegg, Buy all share distributors is what I've heard. Depending on where you are they may use a distro closer to you but B&H may be their own distro? I'm not clear on all this. Anyway buying a strobing 120Hz monitor is a bit of a gamble no matter which model you go for, imo. At least with the Eizo you can say, look, it's freakin restarting itself it's definitely defective, or "this one has a dead pixel dead center of the screen, guys..." With the TNs you're hoping the return people will believe you when you say there's a ton of BLB with the lights off... I don't see dead pixels on the TN's so far.
 
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