Anonymous Hackers Uncover Alleged Proof of Mt. Gox Fraud

CommanderFrank

CommanderFrank

Cat Can't Scratch It
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May 9, 2000
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For all of those who thought the Mt. Gox hack and subsequent theft of millions of dollars’ worth of Bitcoins was an inside job, you weren't by yourself. Anonymous hackers plowed through mounds of data to find proof that points directly to the site’s CEO.

Despite the hack making noise around the Internet today, this leak is not yet guaranteed evidence of foul play. As Forbes notes, the balances could be a case of awful bookkeeping (it's not too far-fetched that MtGox was unaware of the hack for awhile),
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mi7chy said:
No different thank our big banks.
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The lack of insurance is way worse than big banks, but still... Didn't most people who are into Bitcoin and shit consider Mt. Gox to be a complete and utter cluster fuck to begin with?
 
mi7chy said:
No different thank our big banks.
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Actually it's quite different than our big banks, as long as you consider actual BANKS, and not those overly large trading companies like Meryl Lynch, etc, as "banks"
 
I hope that the US courts award damages in the amount of BTC due to account holders. Not a USD winning, but award all the BTC to their rightful owners.

Oh, and OFF WITH HIS HEAD!
 
Twisted Kidney said:
Didn't most people who are into Bitcoin and shit consider Mt. Gox to be a complete and utter cluster fuck to begin with?
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Only once it ran into trouble. I keep hearing a lot of rationalizations that 'people should have known to get out,' but as far as I can tell a lot of them did try to get their money out. People were waiting for months.

Given how difficult it is to keep traditional financial institutions in line I'd be willing to bet this is going on at all the exchanges. Either they get greedy or they run into liquidity problems. Where's all the money coming from anyway?
 
DeathFromBelow said:
Only once it ran into trouble. I keep hearing a lot of rationalizations that 'people should have known to get out,' but as far as I can tell a lot of them did try to get their money out. People were waiting for months.

Given how difficult it is to keep traditional financial institutions in line I'd be willing to bet this is going on at all the exchanges. Either they get greedy or they run into liquidity problems. Where's all the money coming from anyway?
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The thing is -- for anyone who had basic level of common sense, it was easy to pull your money out when things didn't seem right.

I pulled my BTC out the instant they stopped working with Dwolla (a system similar to coinbase for getting the actually converted dollars back into your bank account)

The day they stopped supporting that is the day I got the hell out -- there were warning signs, and I followed them.

If our legal systems don't make him pay, there will be some group out there with enough losses (and muscle) to make this guy hurt, or at least live in total fear for the rest of his life.
 
Anything these hackers leaked won't be allowed in court.

If there was a chance of them being sued, this hurry that chance.
 
w4ffles said:
Bring out the pitchforks and torches.
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simpsons-villagers-pitchfork-torches.jpeg
 
Even if it wasn't an inside job, shouldn't these guys be fearing for their lives? I can't imagine in all the money lost, that at least some tiny bit of it belonged to someone engaged in nefarious business.
 
Chas said:
HYWRFGB.jpg
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That's the crux of it all. A truly free market only operates correctly if the majority of the players are morally upright. However, when it comes to financial markets, greed tends to win out .. Thus 2008 happens. Or this type of thing happens.
 
DeathFromBelow said:
Only once it ran into trouble. I keep hearing a lot of rationalizations that 'people should have known to get out,' but as far as I can tell a lot of them did try to get their money out. People were waiting for months.

Given how difficult it is to keep traditional financial institutions in line I'd be willing to bet this is going on at all the exchanges. Either they get greedy or they run into liquidity problems. Where's all the money coming from anyway?
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Apparently a few people in here think the money was coming from a bunch of illegal organizations but following the string of suicides seems to point to traditional investment firms. And on that note, if the people who do this sort of things all day long didn't recognize what was going on then there really isn't much reason to expect that anyone else would have thought it prudent to pull their wallets. Given that the exploit was demonstrated years ago it's not as if anyone pulling out in the past few months were particularly savvy. More likely the people who had relatively few bitcoins could access them whereas larger holdings would have been more difficult.

In traditional banking terms: when customers make a run on the bank the small asset holders can pull their money from an ATM or cashier whereas the large asset holders are left holding the (empty) bag.
 
Spidey329 said:
That's the crux of it all. A truly free market only operates correctly if the majority of the players are morally upright. However, when it comes to financial markets, greed tends to win out .. Thus 2008 happens. Or this type of thing happens.
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Libertarianism in a nutshell: I want government to be involved only when it benefits me.
 
techrat said:
Libertarianism in a nutshell: I want government to be involved only when it benefits me.
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For the less-advanced libertarian internet debater: Don't forget to No True Scotsman anything that makes libertarianism look bad.
 
techrat said:
Libertarianism in a nutshell: I want government to be involved only when it benefits me.
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sound like everyone in Washington tbh. Just take out the word "only" and replace with "all the time and especially"
 
This is exactly why I only put coins on an exchange when I'm ready to trade, then move them back to offline storage or move to FIAT...
 
DeathFromBelow said:
Only once it ran into trouble. I keep hearing a lot of rationalizations that 'people should have known to get out,' but as far as I can tell a lot of them did try to get their money out. People were waiting for months.

Given how difficult it is to keep traditional financial institutions in line I'd be willing to bet this is going on at all the exchanges. Either they get greedy or they run into liquidity problems. Where's all the money coming from anyway?
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Telling people to get out of Gox is like telling people to get out of bitcoin all together. It's clearly a bubble and if/when it crashes you deserve to lose all your money because you should have known better. If you buy low/sell high then fine, congratulations. But you need to accept responsibility for when you lose money. People still seem to think cryptocurrency is like money, but due to greed and speculation it has been turned into nothing more than a stock. A stock backed by nothing, being used for nothing, but a stock nonetheless. Do your homework and learn how to manipulate the system like everyone else, but dont come crying when you fail. Because when the stock fails, it's actually you that failed to predict it.
 
Spidey329 said:
That's the crux of it all. A truly free market only operates correctly if the majority of the players are morally upright. However, when it comes to financial markets, greed tends to win out .. Thus 2008 happens. Or this type of thing happens.
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Sorry but I trust the government even less. Too much regulation is worse than not enough regulation. Politicians are playing with other peoples money so it they screw up it doesn't effect them personally.
 
thejokker said:
Sorry but I trust the government even less. Too much regulation is worse than not enough regulation. Politicians are playing with other peoples money so it they screw up it doesn't effect them personally.
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LMAO

if you really feel this way then transfer all your assets from a US backed and regulated bank into an unregulated exchange...but something tells me that's not something you would do
 
Spidey329 said:
That's the crux of it all. A truly free market only operates correctly if the majority of the players are morally upright. However, when it comes to financial markets, greed tends to win out .. Thus 2008 happens. Or this type of thing happens.
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2008 had nothing to do with free markets. Interest rates are manipulated by the fed, currency is manipulated by the fed, and the government has home loan programs.

Greed is a constant, and cannot explain anything.
 
Well... it didn't take long to call Karpeles a "fat fuck":

The footnote reads, "That fat fuck has been lying!!"

I'm actually getting tired of reading about Gox and "fat fuck", so I'll just leave this here:


The Inside Story of Mt. Gox, Bitcoin’s $460 Million Disaster

http://www.wired.com/wiredenterprise/2014/03/bitcoin-exchange/

The Federal Reserve seized two US bank accounts, one was about 1.5 M and the other was 2 M. Then Gox's Japanese bank limited withdrawals to 10 per week ( or something equally stupid, given the trading volume ).

http://bitcoinmagazine.com/4641/mtgoxs-dwolla-account-seized/
 
When's the last time a bank robber had the kindness and courtesy to record the loss for the bank in their books?

Let's say there's a bank vault with $1,000,000 in it. If I sneak in, pilfer $900,000, and get out with it undetected, what are that bank's books going to say is in the vault? $1,000,000 or $100,000?

I'm not saying that Gox is honest or on the level. But it's not like this is fundamentally inconsistent with their story.
 
There was an article that I read, where an insider, close to Karpeles ( a friend / business acquaintance ) said that the Federal Reserve gave Karpeles 2 months notice, to file as a money transmitter. The friend said that Karpeles failed to file the paperwork ( due to incompetence, in his opinion ). So the Feds froze the bank accounts. I can't find the original article.
 
LstOfTheBrunnenG said:
When's the last time a bank robber had the kindness and courtesy to record the loss for the bank in their books?

Let's say there's a bank vault with $1,000,000 in it. If I sneak in, pilfer $900,000, and get out with it undetected, what are that bank's books going to say is in the vault? $1,000,000 or $100,000?

I'm not saying that Gox is honest or on the level. But it's not like this is fundamentally inconsistent with their story.
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That bank robber would be about as kind as the one who destroys all the mortgage records!

I think this is most likely what happened, though that information showing the loss should be recorded in the blockchain as leaving their account. Otherwise there would have to be a bigger flaw within the blockchain itself.
 
sfsuphysics said:
Actually it's quite different than our big banks, as long as you consider actual BANKS, and not those overly large trading companies like Meryl Lynch, etc, as "banks"
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that might have been true before Clinton... not so anymore.. I am not sure any 'Bank' like say BOA, doesn't hold funny money
 
Spidey329 said:
That's the crux of it all. A truly free market only operates correctly if the majority of the players are morally upright. However, when it comes to financial markets, greed tends to win out .. Thus 2008 happens. Or this type of thing happens.
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This actually is the market working as it should.
A bad event happens, people find greener grass.

I'll happily take a loss on the bitcoin I had at Gox over bank bail-ins and the opportunity costs of government bailouts of private companies.

A free market doesn't mean risk never backfires. And it assumes the greed is there.
 
aardvark sandwich said:
Strawman fallacy instead of an argument
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The only person who has ever said that 'failure should not be possible' is you. Nobody has actually made that argument except you.

The real issue is that if there are apparently no real consequences for the owners of the largest bitcoin exchange running off with all the money. What's to stop that from happening anywhere else? That's a serious problem that you can't seem to reconcile with your quasi-religious libertarian views.
 
I'm not sure what inference you get from his picture, but it tells me he views the failure of this company as unacceptable.

I've already made comments about risk, its not as if I'm ignoring it.

There have bee a lot of counterparty failures in bitcoin companies. Each time the community has reacted, and increased the threshold for what it deems acceptable concerning security. Thats how a market improves. An infallible product does not just fall from the sky. As the market increases, the restraining factor against kooks and bandits is the capital and quality of product required to become the largest exchange. Early adoption is a bitch.
 
Spidey329 said:
That's the crux of it all. A truly free market only operates correctly if the majority of the players are morally upright. However, when it comes to financial markets, greed tends to win out .. Thus 2008 happens. Or this type of thing happens.
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true true true. Though, that does apply for every form of government/economy. Communism would work if people in power aren't prone to corruption and people under them remained motivated to dutifully work hard for the betterment of the whole.
 
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