NSA Wants to Expand Phone Database Because of Privacy Suits

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The government can't delete all this data because why? Oh yeah, because it has a duty to preserve evidence. Riiiiight. :rolleyes:

The Obama administration asked a federal surveillance court on Wednesday for permission to hold millions of phone records longer than the current five-year limit. The Justice Department argued that data needs to be maintained as evidence for the slew of privacy lawsuits filed in the wake of the Edward Snowden's leaks about National Security Agency surveillance. The American Civil Liberties Union, the Electronic Frontier Foundation, and other groups are suing to shut the program down, claiming it violates the constitutional rights of millions of Americans.
 
The flame of liberty in this country is all but snuffed out. Get your gold / silver in a chest and dig a hole... leave the map with me btw I will watch it for you :D
 
The only way to stop this behavior, is to elect staunch conservatives. Not a party.
 
The only way to stop this behavior, is to elect staunch conservatives. Not a party.

But conservatives are staunch backers of populace control and surveillance just like all politicians.

Here's the real solution: Electing people who aren't politicians.

Try to figure that one out.
 
But conservatives are staunch backers of populace control and surveillance just like all politicians.

Here's the real solution: Electing people who aren't politicians.

Try to figure that one out.

Ok, i will bite.
You have no idea what a conservative is do you?
What you just described are establishment democrats and republicans, but not conservatism.
Conservatism is NOT a party, its an ideology. One that is about self reliance, and freedom.
I can elaborate more if you are willing to learn, but not unless your open minded enough to listen.
 
One that is about self reliance, and freedom.
I can elaborate more if you are willing to learn, but not unless your open minded enough to listen.

Oh God please do. Also please list the people you believe fit this mold.
 
Oh God please do. Also please list the people you believe fit this mold.

Really? instead of a reasonable conversation, this is what you boil it down to?
What would i gain from trying to educate you on what conservatism really is, when you obviously just want to belittle the conversation. What does this gain? Our elected officials are eroding our constitutional freedoms everyday and i am just pointing out how illogical it is to elect the same parties over and over expecting things to get better.
Do you really want to know about conservatism? seriously?
 
The only way to stop this behavior, is to elect staunch conservatives. Not a party.

or "staunch liberals"... not a party. meh the way you bring it up in this specific case they are probably the same thing.

I think what you mean is more libertarian... They tend to disagree with government over-sight/meddling (What ever you wan to call it) even to the point of being harmful.

If you want to bring up "true" Conservative or Liberal ideas it really is a mistake, cause its a moving target. You are going to teach use what you think true what ever is.

imo idea tend to lean one way or the other, usually though everything and everyone has a mix of both.
 
But conservatives are staunch backers of populace control and surveillance just like all politicians.

You have a very strange definition of "conservative". Conservatives as they exist in America today want limited government, not expansion of government power. They are certainly not in favor of population control, as that belongs mainly to the pro-choicers and environmentalists who want human beings to go extinct...or those who really like China's policies.
 
or "staunch liberals"... not a party. meh the way you bring it up in this specific case they are probably the same thing.

I think what you mean is more libertarian... They tend to disagree with government over-sight/meddling (What ever you wan to call it) even to the point of being harmful.

If you want to bring up "true" Conservative or Liberal ideas it really is a mistake, cause its a moving target. You are going to teach use what you think true what ever is.

imo idea tend to lean one way or the other, usually though everything and everyone has a mix of both.

Here's the really fucked up thing: libertarians used to be known as "classical liberals", and still technically are. Meanwhile, when it comes down to individual liberty, conservatives tend to lean closer to "classical liberals" than modern liberals do.

So...yeah...our labels are pretty fucked.
 
Oh God please do. Also please list the people you believe fit this mold.

Here is a list, small unfortunately, but these congressional officials voting records meet the conservative guide lines of smaller government, individual freedoms, free enterprise, upholding the constitution and individual responsibility.

Franks, Trent AZ
Flake, Jeff AZ
Graves, Tom GA
Duncan, Jeff SC
Broun, Paul GA
Jordan, Jim OH
Huelskamp, Tim KS
Lamborn, Doug CO
Mulvaney, Mick SC
Amash, Justin MI
Quayle, Ben AZ
Walsh, Joe IL
Gowdy, Trey SC
Schweikert, David AZ
Wilson, Joe SC
Chaffetz, Jason UT
Gohmert, Louie TX
Ross, Dennis FL
Stutzman, Marlin IN
McClintock, Tom CA
Fleming, John LA
Bachmann, Michele MN
Neugebauer, Randy TX
Scott, Tim SC
Huizenga, Bill MI


Im sure you have no idea who these people are. I bet you though i would have Sarah Palin on that list didn't you?
 
or "staunch liberals"... not a party. meh the way you bring it up in this specific case they are probably the same thing.

I think what you mean is more libertarian... They tend to disagree with government over-sight/meddling (What ever you wan to call it) even to the point of being harmful.

If you want to bring up "true" Conservative or Liberal ideas it really is a mistake, cause its a moving target. You are going to teach use what you think true what ever is.

imo idea tend to lean one way or the other, usually though everything and everyone has a mix of both.

Conservatism does not move or change. Its always been the same. Only the GOP and the democrats have done as you described, because they change with whatever direction the wind is blowing. Conservatism is an ideology, not a political party.
 
Conservatism does not move or change. Its always been the same. Only the GOP and the democrats have done as you described, because they change with whatever direction the wind is blowing. Conservatism is an ideology, not a political party.

That's kind of a silly statement. All ideologies evolve/change. That's why you have a "New Left". Right now, the Tea Party is challenging both the libertarian and conservative ideologies to hash out differences. Do you really think there's no difference between the politics of, say, "conservative" Rick Santorum the holy roller Catholic who wants to outlaw contraception, and "conservative" Tammy Bruce, the gun-toting pro-choice lesbian radio talk show host?
 
So in effect, the Obama NSA is making the people who are trying to stop the endless spying out to be the bad guys.

How can anyone still defend this president and government?
 
We could all stop voting and paying our taxes.

Well, many people feel that way, but it would take us down a road that we might not recover from. It would be better to elect people who uphold the constitution instead of trying to stay in office.
 
Hey, the Senate Majority Leader himself told us that paying taxes is voluntary.

You volunteer to be thrown in prison, apparently.

I believe their (the IRS) definition of voluntary was that they do not send you a bill that you pay. Instead YOU came up with the amount you owe or are due and then YOU send it to the IRS. So because you came to them, that is their extremely loose idea of "voluntary".

Never mind the fact that you derived the tax amount based on their rules and calculations, and that if you don't pay the right amount they reject it until you do. But again, since they will not ever tell you what you owe them outright, you are doing it voluntarily.
 
So in effect, the Obama NSA is making the people who are trying to stop the endless spying out to be the bad guys.

How can anyone still defend this president and government?

Its not just BO, our Gov has been pushing this boundary for a long time.
The flood gates were opened with the patriot act. Not sure if Mr. Bush new the full scope of what he did, but its has given them more power and the people less freedom.
 
Sadly, it's also the only reason he was elected in the first place.

You know, there is a lot of truth to that. What is weird, Hillary was all set for the Democratic nomination, and here comes a senator from Illinois that nobody even heard of, and they just push Hillary aside? Something was not right about that.
 
You know, there is a lot of truth to that. What is weird, Hillary was all set for the Democratic nomination, and here comes a senator from Illinois that nobody even heard of, and they just push Hillary aside? Something was not right about that.

They didn't want the presidents to go Bush-Clinton-Bush-Clinton. So they stuck an Obama in there to make it seem like our government isn't run by nepotism.
 
They didn't want the presidents to go Bush-Clinton-Bush-Clinton. So they stuck an Obama in there to make it seem like our government isn't run by nepotism.

could be, but "they" could not have silenced the Clintons so easily without something hidden. Bill and Hilary just rolled over, i just don't see the Clintons rolling over for anyone or any party.
 
could be, but "they" could not have silenced the Clintons so easily without something hidden. Bill and Hilary just rolled over, i just don't see the Clintons rolling over for anyone or any party.

Meh. I think the Clintons did plenty of research and found that Americans are far more sexist than they are racist. Look at the treatment that Sarah Palin got. While Hillary would certainly have not gotten nearly the amount of abuse that Palin unfairly received, she'd have gotten a pretty good chunk of it. That's why you had pro-Hillary groups like Hillbuzz actually speaking up about Palin's treatment. Now the race card is nice and tapped out, the genitals card is being dusted off and readied for deployment.
 
Meh. I think the Clintons did plenty of research and found that Americans are far more sexist than they are racist. Look at the treatment that Sarah Palin got. While Hillary would certainly have not gotten nearly the amount of abuse that Palin unfairly received, she'd have gotten a pretty good chunk of it. That's why you had pro-Hillary groups like Hillbuzz actually speaking up about Palin's treatment. Now the race card is nice and tapped out, the genitals card is being dusted off and readied for deployment.

I just dont see the Clintons letting go like that. If you go back to her campaign she came out swinging against BO, and then Hollywood, the media and most of her "in-the-bag" supporters just dropped her. Im probably just looking to deep into to it.
 
I just dont see the Clintons letting go like that. If you go back to her campaign she came out swinging against BO, and then Hollywood, the media and most of her "in-the-bag" supporters just dropped her. Im probably just looking to deep into to it.

Their brand is not what it once was. I mean, hell, the last time Slick Willie won an election was in the 90s. A LOT has changed in the last 15 years.
 
Now the race card is nice and tapped out, the genitals card is being dusted off and readied for deployment.

I can already hear it now, come the fall of 2016, the most repeated line will be, "How can you not vote for the first woman president? You must be one of those sexist, misogynist, woman-hating neo-conservative Republicans!"

Of course, you never heard that during the Democrat Primary for 2008... :rolleyes:
 
I can already hear it now, come the fall of 2016, the most repeated line will be, "How can you not vote for the first woman president? You must be one of those sexist, misogynist, woman-hating neo-conservative Republicans!"

Of course, you never heard that during the Democrat Primary for 2008... :rolleyes:

Even easier: they just rejuvenate the "War on Women".

And when Sarah Palin and Nikki Haley and Michelle Bachmann are savaged for backing Rand Paul, the bile will flow without a jot of irony.
 
Even easier: they just rejuvenate the "War on Women".

And when Sarah Palin and Nikki Haley and Michelle Bachmann are savaged for backing Rand Paul, the bile will flow without a jot of irony.

But they aren't real women because they don't support the wholesale slaughter of children in the womb, duh. :rolleyes:
 
Their brand is not what it once was. I mean, hell, the last time Slick Willie won an election was in the 90s. A LOT has changed in the last 15 years.

Well, not really, at that time, the dems had the same good-old boys in DC they had when bubba was in office. Most left or died after the 2008 election. Things are certainly different now, but not back in 08.
From what i have read, sounds like Hillary will not run in 16, she has some medical issues according to the rumors. I think they might have promised her the nom in 16 for stepping aside in 08, and she might not be able to do it.
 
Why don't the government just go ahead and implant us already, I'm sure we have tech ready for it.
1 still pic out of every 5 minutes? Lol, must be why they're building a larger center.


Sadly, it's also the only reason he was elected in the first place.

Sadly, alot of people thinks he is black and not bi-racial. But then again this is uMeriCa where if (IIRC, at one point) you're 10-20% other than white, you must be that race. Or if you look black, you must be black.
 
So in effect, the Obama NSA is making the people who are trying to stop the endless spying out to be the bad guys.

How can anyone still defend this president and government?

Don't take this wrong man, but WTF you talkin'bout?

Here is the first concept you should understand, the NSA is part of the DoD, the DoD is the military, the Military is pretty freaking conservative and for the most part really doesn't like Obama, hates the Clintons, and votes pretty much straight Republican because somehow the democrats keep screwing up their absentee ballots when they are in the big seat.

Now the big boss at the top, the guys with titles like "Director", he is an appointee, and no one get's to the rank of Admiral or General without becoming some sort of political animal, but he is just another boss at the top. How much does a 20+ year veteran of an Intelligence Service care about who sits at the top when they change seats every 3 or 4 years? That top dog is just passing through on his way to something better. It's the dogs that sit under the table that decide where the scraps go.

It's just ironic though, by suing the NSA they guaranteed that as long as the litigation is pending, the evidence can't be destroyed and that was the whole aim of the law suite.
 
The flood gates were opened with the patriot act. Not sure if Mr. Bush new the full scope of what he did, but its has given them more power and the people less freedom.

You can't lay the Patriot Act all on President Bush, or don't you recall the voting record, that was one of the most unanimously passed pieces of legislation every voted on. I think the only thing that ever passed by a wider margin was declaring war on Japan.
 
Ok, i will bite.
You have no idea what a conservative is do you?
What you just described are establishment democrats and republicans, but not conservatism.
Conservatism is NOT a party, its an ideology. One that is about self reliance, and freedom.
I can elaborate more if you are willing to learn, but not unless your open minded enough to listen.

I'll bite too.

Conservatism is resistance to change, period, it does not extend beyond that in any form.

The nuances of political conservatism can range from social regression to simple caution in progressing.
 
Don't take this wrong man, but WTF you talkin'bout?

Here is the first concept you should understand, the NSA is part of the DoD, the DoD is the military, the Military is pretty freaking conservative and for the most part really doesn't like Obama, hates the Clintons, and votes pretty much straight Republican because somehow the democrats keep screwing up their absentee ballots when they are in the big seat.

Now the big boss at the top, the guys with titles like "Director", he is an appointee, and no one get's to the rank of Admiral or General without becoming some sort of political animal, but he is just another boss at the top. How much does a 20+ year veteran of an Intelligence Service care about who sits at the top when they change seats every 3 or 4 years? That top dog is just passing through on his way to something better. It's the dogs that sit under the table that decide where the scraps go.

It's just ironic though, by suing the NSA they guaranteed that as long as the litigation is pending, the evidence can't be destroyed and that was the whole aim of the law suite.

I would definitely say that BO and his administration are no friends of the military, but the DOD is run by the Secretary of Defense and who appoints that position? The president.
 
I'll bite too.

Conservatism is resistance to change, period, it does not extend beyond that in any form.

The nuances of political conservatism can range from social regression to simple caution in progressing.

You couldn't be more wrong.
Conservatism is all about individual freedoms, freedom of economic prosperity, limited government and individual responsibility. "period"
Instead of repeating what the liberal media and hollywood is spewing, tell me how any of what i just described is "resistant to change"
Dont even bother with:
Pro-choice, Gay rights, Race, economic inequality and all the other distractions, because none of those political topics have anything to do with conservatism.
True conservatism is all about people having the freedom to live their own lives, as the see fit and be as successful as they wish, without discrimination in their pursuits, but no guarantee of success. As long as your not infringing on the individual rights and freedoms of others, then you can live your own life.

The most important part of my post is:

As long as your not infringing on the individual rights and freedoms of others
 
I'll bite too.

Conservatism is resistance to change, period, it does not extend beyond that in any form.

Oh, okay. So conservatives want abortion to stay legal, Obama to remain president, and to rely on a single pair of underwear for life.

Thanks for demonstrating your introspective knowledge of political ideologies.
 
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