Let's talk delidding

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Bluesun311

2[H]4U
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Sep 21, 2013
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Well, I've run out of scary things to do with my system after putting a water pump on top of it. What's next? Right. Break out the steel mallet, the clamp vice, and get ready to whack that thing. Uh... Wait. For real? That's the best we've come up with.

I found this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oo2aFZBBJF4 where this Japanese guy starts out with an xacto knife and then uses what looks like a theme park multi-pass to go straight under the IHS. Entire process under a minute and looks really safe/easy. That looks great. I know it won't work for me that way...

Here's the cleanest video I've seen of the vice method, and there seem to be many. I'm gearing up to do it this way... I'm interested in the anti static material he is using behind the vice to catch the chip if it pops way off, what's best to use? Was thinking I would try to cover most of the back of my vice itself with something soft to bounce off and then pretty much exactly what he has in that last video.

The last time I tried to talk myself into delidding I went so far as to put in an order for some Liquid Pro and the proprietor told me he might be releasing a "safe delidding" machine sometime when I chickened out and cancelled. Well, I have some on the way this time, and I'm determined. I've ordered a backup chip and got some liquid electrical tape. What else do I need? More balls? I've played chicken at 140mph, how much nerve does it take to delid a silly microchip? I'm having trouble with the idea of hitting my beloved 4770k with a mallet. So I'm going to delid a 4670k first for practice...

Any tips/advice/cautionary tales/warnings/rants/success stories or insight would be most welcome.
 
I used a regular box cutter on my 4670k. Whole process took about 30 min. Piece of cake.

My friend wanted me to do his chip as well. That's when things got crappy. His IHS was in unevenly mounted (closer to PCB on one side, further from PCB on the other.)

Cutting around the higher side was easy because the Silicone adhesive was thicker. The tight side caused the IHS to chew up my blade. As a result, I damaged the surface of the PCB and it knocked out half his PCIe lanes. The chip operated fine, but you couldn't have any Cards bigger than a PCIe 1x in the mobo. Had to get a new cpu.


TLDR: fucked up a chip with razor method. Take your time.
 
Is one syringe of liquid pro enough for 2 applications? Seems like it should be... Video from the manufacturer of that TIM shows them hardly using any at all.

Couple months back I noticed there's a guy on eBay that will delid a proc for 10 dollars or do a full reseal with liquid pro for 50... but that seems like having someone build your computer for you almost. I asked him about how to verify if you got same proc back or not and he replied that it was impossible because the numbers are on the IHS. I suppose one could somehow permanently mark or brand a chip without damaging it but I want to delid my own processor...
 
I used the vice method took less than 30 seconds and I didn't even send my chip flying, the IHS simply came loose and the chip moved about an inch. Just keep in mind you don' want to nail the thing, just shock the adhesive. Of course your mileage may vary since I'm sure they are not all exactly the same. I actually laughed it was so easy to do :) I used a regular hammer and small piece of mahogany that was nice and flat.
 
I delidded a few days ago, but i'm waiting on some Gelid GC Extreme to arrive because my IHS and H60 surfaces are so uneven that the Liquid Pro hardly makes contact.

The vice method is almost foolproof, i would recommend getting a a hairdryer/heatgun and heating the chip up while its sitting in the vise to soften the adhesive. I haven't actually tried hitting the wood without heating the chip up so i can't say for certain that the heat helps... but i'm inclined to believe it does. I only hit it 4 times before the chip slid right off the IHS. Caught the chip with a beach towel which was sitting behind the vise. static charge/discharge is kinda "whatever" where I live since it's very humid, on top of me grounding myself often.

The choice of wood is pretty important, you don't want something flimsy or something that will splinter easily.

After the delid , i scraped the black adhesive off with an old credit card. Wiped the chip + IHS clean with alcohol. Applied Arctic Silver Ceramique 2 (non-conductive) to the capacitors that are in a line next to the die (in your case you'll be applying the electrical tape). Then i applied the liquid pro... the supplied q-tip sucks, imo. I wrapped a napkin around the q-tip and used that instead to avoid the q-tip fibers sticking on my application. Slapped the IHS back on, threw it in the socket, closed the latch. and for now, i have some generic no-name cooler master thermal paste (the one that comes with their heatsinks) in my setup and the temps have drastically reduced, so i can't wait till the Gelid GC Extreme get here.

I'll post something in here with before and afters as soon as it comes.
 
Awesome. Thanks bunch for replying. The hair dryer trick seems definitely worth trying. Liquid pro should arrive tomorrow and I'm looking forward to doing the delid now.
 
My TIM came today!

Here ya go:

97c0a484d0.png


YMMV of course, but i bet you will at least see ~15c drop. Just something to look forward to i guess. Don't let the whole process scare you too much.
 
I should definitely not do this on my non k i7. Right after I stop messing with the fsb clocks...If I grow the balls to do this I'll let you all know if you can grow a new CPU by feeding it a steady diet of tears.
 
jon666 said:
I should definitely not do this on my non k i7. Right after I stop messing with the fsb clocks...If I grow the balls to do this I'll let you all know if you can grow a new CPU by feeding it a steady diet of tears.
Click to expand...

Lmao... that's classic. OCing without the multiplier sounds scary too! ;)
 
My de-lidded 4670K runs at 4.8G, 1.3v and temperatures of about 60C on a Corsair H110. I'm using the Corsair TIM on the waterblock and Liquid Pro on the die.
 
I really want to do this, my i7 4770k is water cooled (3x120mm rad, xpsc raystorm block) and it still hits 78c, remounted a couple times so I know its not mounted wrong.
 
Well I did it. Possibly shakiest vice attempt ever that works if it does. It just wouldn't give lol. Putting on the liquid metal was scary too. I'm not cut out for this shit. Update in a bit after I get everything put back together. Redoing some lighting as well.
 
Bluesun311 said:
Well I did it. Possibly shakiest vice attempt ever that works if it does. It just wouldn't give lol. Putting on the liquid metal was scary too. I'm not cut out for this shit. Update in a bit after I get everything put back together. Redoing some lighting as well.
Click to expand...

Good luck dude. I plan to hit up the vice method sometime in the future. I killed a cherry athlon64 back in the day with a razor so no more of that for me.
 
So yeah I wasn't too worried and it's acting like it's perfectly happy with the awful things I just did to it, but the his must be shorter or something I'm not making good contact somewhere. High idle temps. I'll keep working on it :) I'm sure it's fine just need to adjust something.

Edit: haha, helps if you plug in the pump I guess...
 
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Wow... holy shit it worked--a LOT. Same POV Ray benchmark that topped at 85C yesterday topped at 67C today... and it's Texas hot today but wasn't yesterday, so that's a conservative comparison.
 
+1 for vice grip method. I've done both and the vice grip is just so much faster and safer.
 
Picked up a small table vise today and did the deed. Chip lived but how do you guys recommend removing the black adhesive around the chip? Getting it off the ihs was easy but getting it off the chip is proving a little more difficult.
 
Thanks I'll try with a credit card. Any tips on how to go about it?

I'm currently seeing about -15 on what was my hottest core which is now my coolest core lol... I'm just using some prolimatech pk-1 so nothing too fancy. Plan to replace it with something better in the future.
 
Bluesun311 said:
I used a credit card. Used a nitrile glove to spread the liquid pro on the die.
Click to expand...

If you are mounting a WB directly to the die (which is the superior way to do things) I put a small rice sized drop of CL LP in the middle of the die..I heat it for about 2 minutes with a ~1800 watt hairdryer and then spread it with an old CC into a nice even liquidish layer..If you "tear" the bubble as you spread it, just come back from a 90 degree difference...LP is very easy to get super smooth if you heat it up..

It's awesome to see some of you finally taking the plunge! I was one of the first to do my 3770K here and was blown away by the results..I used a simple razor blade, and lucked out by getting a "Golden Sample" which is running @ 5Ghz 24/7 stable...I just installed a new loop with my 290 and am going to see if I can push for ~5.2Ghz on it..
 
SavageThrash said:
If this is against forum rules please bring down the mod hammer on me but on Anand I found a lovely article on direct die mounting the corsair H series.

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2285595
Click to expand...

Nah, I really don't think so! Was a really good read, too. I was kinda wondering how the hell I'd get the Liquid Pro off, but it can be done. :)
The bare-die mod seems like almost a masochistic process. I'm grateful my chip survived me repeatedly whacking it with a two-by-four, I got my 20 degree or whatever drop. I'm done. I put the IHS back on with liquid pro between and I would be surprised to see much pump out effect over the next couple years.
 
Bluesun311 said:
Nah, I really don't think so! Was a really good read, too. I was kinda wondering how the hell I'd get the Liquid Pro off, but it can be done. :)
The bare-die mod seems like almost a masochistic process. I'm grateful my chip survived me repeatedly whacking it with a two-by-four, I got my 20 degree or whatever drop. I'm done. I put the IHS back on with liquid pro between and I would be surprised to see much pump out effect over the next couple years.
Click to expand...

If I went to the length of taking the IHS off I'd not want it back on. I've just gotten use to direct die cooling with my notebook. I want all the gains :D
 
munkle said:
I really want to do this, my i7 4770k is water cooled (3x120mm rad, xpsc raystorm block) and it still hits 78c, remounted a couple times so I know its not mounted wrong.
Click to expand...

Yep, my 4770k had about a 40c temp drop (comparing Newest prime for haswell Small FFT under full load) and delidding + direct die cooling using the same EK waterblock. I used phobia Liquid metal TIM not liquid pro, but it's probably similar (Just 1/3rd the price).

The scary part isn't delidding, it's the direct die cooling portion.
 
SavageThrash said:
If I went to the length of taking the IHS off I'd not want it back on. I've just gotten use to direct die cooling with my notebook. I want all the gains :D
Click to expand...

Direct die notebook modding... Jeebus that's pretty H.

I recognize my limitations and frankly, after seeing my hands shake during the vice delid process I think I'm lucky to have made it out with a win on that one. I'll take the money and run. Some people should not be messing with certain delicate electronics and that includes me. I don't want to debezel my monitor, either :D

I think the
TL;DR for the thread should be
If I can delid a Haswell ANYONE can delid a Haswell.
 
Bluesun311 said:
Direct die notebook modding... Jeebus that's pretty H.

I recognize my limitations and frankly, after seeing my hands shake during the vice delid process I think I'm lucky to have made it out with a win on that one. I'll take the money and run. Some people should not be messing with certain delicate electronics and that includes me. I don't want to debezel my monitor, either :D

I think the
TL;DR for the thread should be
If I can delid a Haswell ANYONE can delid a Haswell.
Click to expand...

Oh I'm to nervous to delid my haswell and the qx9300 for my noteboot simply came as a bare die cpu. I think almost all notebook cpus are bare die as the stock t-something or other was bare die too. No way I would have been able to cut the IHS off a $1000 processor even though I got a deal on it.

I think I'll try the razor method at some point for haswell. Just haven't worked up the guts yet. Plus the vice method with haswell and the voltage regs under the IHS seems very risky to me.
 
SavageThrash said:
Oh I'm to nervous to delid my haswell and the qx9300 for my noteboot simply came as a bare die cpu. I think almost all notebook cpus are bare die as the stock t-something or other was bare die too. No way I would have been able to cut the IHS off a $1000 processor even though I got a deal on it.

I think I'll try the razor method at some point for haswell. Just haven't worked up the guts yet. Plus the vice method with haswell and the voltage regs under the IHS seems very risky to me.
Click to expand...

I literally dropped my striking block on the proc at one point, that was the iffy moment for me, part of the block chipped (because I wasn't using hard enough wood) and I let it come down and make contact with the pcb on the edge, where some of the gold circles are. Blunt force seems less dangerous with these than slashing/slicing. I'm not hearing/seeing people say they killed chips with vice (there is the one video of the dude who knocks his off onto concrete, but that's needlessly silly, I had a rug below and then an old clean shirt on top). But I'm seeing/hearing about some problems with the razor method (even in this thread). Given my hands were shaking, I think the hammer/vice was way safer than razor for me.
 
SavageThrash said:
Oh I'm to nervous to delid my haswell and the qx9300 for my noteboot simply came as a bare die cpu. I think almost all notebook cpus are bare die as the stock t-something or other was bare die too. No way I would have been able to cut the IHS off a $1000 processor even though I got a deal on it.

I think I'll try the razor method at some point for haswell. Just haven't worked up the guts yet. Plus the vice method with haswell and the voltage regs under the IHS seems very risky to me.
Click to expand...

The "vice method" is quite safe compared to those of us that just used our good ole hands and a sharp ass razor blade;)..

Bluesun311 said:
Direct die notebook modding... Jeebus that's pretty H.

I recognize my limitations and frankly, after seeing my hands shake during the vice delid process I think I'm lucky to have made it out with a win on that one. I'll take the money and run.
Click to expand...


There isn't anything to it...back in the day CPU's didn't come with an IHS, there were just the bare die and if many a newbie could mount a giant 2lb+ chunk of copper without breaking it, you can mount a tiny waterblock!
 
ccityinstaller said:
The "vice method" is quite safe compared to those of us that just used our good ole hands and a sharp ass razor blade;)..




There isn't anything to it...back in the day CPU's didn't come with an IHS, there were just the bare die and if many a newbie could mount a giant 2lb+ chunk of copper without breaking it, you can mount a tiny waterblock!
Click to expand...

Of course the cores were harder back then, and mounting solutions took this default core height into consideration, unlike solutions that expect the IHS to be on there. :p
 
SavageThrash said:
Oh I'm to nervous to delid my haswell and the qx9300 for my noteboot simply came as a bare die cpu. I think almost all notebook cpus are bare die as the stock t-something or other was bare die too. No way I would have been able to cut the IHS off a $1000 processor even though I got a deal on it.

I think I'll try the razor method at some point for haswell. Just haven't worked up the guts yet. Plus the vice method with haswell and the voltage regs under the IHS seems very risky to me.
Click to expand...

You don't want to hit it on the side with the regs if you use the vice method, but you will have to cut on that side if you use the razor method.
 
Justintoxicated said:
Of course the cores were harder back then, and mounting solutions took this default core height into consideration, unlike solutions that expect the IHS to be on there. :p
Click to expand...

And we had to walk to school in snow 8ft deep, uphill both ways. ;)

Lots of ppl cracked cores back in the old days.
 
So I'm still waiting to put my 4770k system together and I'm tempted to do this before I'm even finished with it. Though I probably won't. At least until I see how it runs at first.
I was wondering though, do you have to use liquid pro or similar?
I realize that will give the greatest gains, but how would something like prolimatech pk1 work?
It's got to be better than the stock TIM, right?
 
CanesVenetici said:
So I'm still waiting to put my 4770k system together and I'm tempted to do this before I'm even finished with it. Though I probably won't. At least until I see how it runs at first.
I was wondering though, do you have to use liquid pro or similar?
I realize that will give the greatest gains, but how would something like prolimatech pk1 work?
It's got to be better than the stock TIM, right?
Click to expand...

Yeah man, it's not so much about the TIM you choose even. I think Noctua NT-H1 has been tested on direct die mount as right there with liquid pro. The real reason for most of the temperature drop is that you eliminate the glue/heat trap. Since they stopped soldering they had to have a way to stick the chip to the heatspreader... and they went with glue the entire way around the chip except for a tiny channel. It's a horrible design but because the actual processors are so stout they did it anyway. They don't fry from high temperature--they just turn off.
 
CanesVenetici said:
So I'm still waiting to put my 4770k system together and I'm tempted to do this before I'm even finished with it. Though I probably won't. At least until I see how it runs at first.
I was wondering though, do you have to use liquid pro or similar?
I realize that will give the greatest gains, but how would something like prolimatech pk1 work?
It's got to be better than the stock TIM, right?
Click to expand...

Yes, it would be better then the stock TIM..If you are going to be putting the IHS back on, then you want to make sure that you carefully remove all of the black glue that held the IHS in place. Contrary to what most people *STILL* think, the high temperatures aren't caused by the factory TIM so much as the large gap between the IHS and the PCB..

A MOD over at Anandtech proved this without a doubt, by testing with various gap differences between the IHS and PCB..Even reusing the stock Intel TIM resulted in a huge drop after the gap was reduced to nothing. Take your time, and remove all of the black rubber glue with an old credit card, some nail polish remover, or a dremel with a cloth polishing wheel.

This being said, if you are going to go through the process, I would recommend at least getting the Phobia Metal TIM (if the CL LP is too costly) since you might as well get the best return on your investment.

One last thing. While you have your IHS off (if you plan on reinstalling it) take a razor blade and check to make sure BOTH the top and bottom sides are flat. IF the bottom side isn't flat, then the IHS will sit crooked on the PCB and most likely give you a greater temperature spread on your cores. You can easily lap it pretty flat in ~20 minutes if it isn't flat from the factory.
 
Tried the razor method. Nicked the PCB/exposed gold trace. Freaked out. Popped it back in. No harm done. I'll probably try the vise method next time.
 
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