Petition to Grant Edward Snowden Clemency Launched

CommanderFrank

CommanderFrank

Cat Can't Scratch It
Joined
May 9, 2000
Messages
75,399
Ron Paul has never been one to run from a controversial subject, so who better to initiate a petition to grant clemency for Edward Snowden. A longtime opponent of the NSA’s spying program, the former Texas Congressman and Presidential hopeful has started a petition to grant Edward Snowden clemency for his part in exposing the NSA's controversial worldwide intelligence gathering.

"On June 5th, 2013, Edward Snowden sacrificed his livelihood, citizenship, and freedom by exposing the disturbing scope of the NSA's worldwide spying program. By signing this petition, you are telling the US government that Mr. Snowden deserves the right to come home without the fear of persecution or imprisonment."
Click to expand...
 
He'll probably be assassinated by a government hired assassin if this did go through :p
 
PCunicorn said:
He'll probably be assassinated by a government hired assassin if this did go through :p
Click to expand...

"Edward Snowden was found dead in a locked duffel bag with two bullet holes through his head, government examiners have determined it was suicide."
 
Snowden is a traitor to his country. He did far more than expose NSA's controversial worldwide intelligence gathering. He stole top secret documents and then fled to a foreign government for asylum. The moment he steps foot back in this country he should be picked up for treason and jailed for life with no chance of appeal, parole, or sentence reduction. This should be solitary confinement with no unmonitored access to ANY form of communication!
 
lilbabycat said:
"Edward Snowden was found dead in a locked duffel bag with two bullet holes through his head, government examiners have determined it was suicide."
Click to expand...

Reminds me of that Family Guy episode where Stewie kills that dog. "He killed himself and then cut himself up" :D
 
Don't you have to be convicted of something before you can be pardoned?
 
Rich said:
Snowden is a traitor to his country. He did far more than expose NSA's controversial worldwide intelligence gathering. He stole top secret documents and then fled to a foreign government for asylum. The moment he steps foot back in this country he should be picked up for treason and jailed for life with no chance of appeal, parole, or sentence reduction. This should be solitary confinement with no unmonitored access to ANY form of communication!
Click to expand...

yup, that's how democracy should work, right? you know, governments can do things wrong too and should be exposed for that. if you assume that governments consist of perfect and benevolent beings and their actions should not be questioned (just because someone put a "top secret" stamp on it), then you're quite the idiot.
 
He stole top secret documents and then fled to a foreign government for asylum
Click to expand...
He didn't leave because he wanted too. He left because he had too. How do you not understand that?
Temujin987 got it right. Just because it says top secret does not mean it should be. Blindly believing that type of stuff is what allows dictatorships to flourish. Snowden did us all a favor and shed light on a program that shouldn't be here.
 
This fuck is not a patriot. Certainly not for U.S. citizens.

Look at all the other secrets he spilled to foreign nations. He could have stopped with telling about the NSA gathering info on U.S. citizens. Fucking traitor, plain and simple.
 
Bamboo said:
This fuck is not a patriot. Certainly not for U.S. citizens.

Look at all the other secrets he spilled to foreign nations. He could have stopped with telling about the NSA gathering info on U.S. citizens. Fucking traitor, plain and simple.
Click to expand...

What secrets?
 
Rich said:
Snowden is a traitor to his country. He did far more than expose NSA's controversial worldwide intelligence gathering. He stole top secret documents and then fled to a foreign government for asylum. The moment he steps foot back in this country he should be picked up for treason and jailed for life with no chance of appeal, parole, or sentence reduction. This should be solitary confinement with no unmonitored access to ANY form of communication!
Click to expand...
Bamboo said:
This fuck is not a patriot. Certainly not for U.S. citizens.

Look at all the other secrets he spilled to foreign nations. He could have stopped with telling about the NSA gathering info on U.S. citizens. Fucking traitor, plain and simple.
Click to expand...
Snowden is a traitor to the State but a hero to the people it represents.
 
ShadowVlican said:
Snowden is a traitor to the State but a hero to the people it represents.
Click to expand...

Holy shit you people are retarded.

Giving or intelligence capabilities to foreign states. Including the details on how, when and what providers/services are tapped into. How in the hell does that benefit the citizens of the U.S?
 
Bamboo said:
Holy shit you people are retarded.

Giving or intelligence capabilities to foreign states. Including the details on how, when and what providers/services are tapped into. How in the hell does that benefit the citizens of the U.S?
Click to expand...

You enjoy being spied on by your government down what type / color of socks you put on every day when you know full well you are no threat even to that fly zipping around outside?

I'm no anarchist or 99%, but the line has to be drawn somewhere.
 
atp1916 said:
You enjoy being spied on by your government down what type / color of socks you put on every day when you know full well you are no threat even to that fly zipping around outside?

I'm no anarchist or 99%, but the line has to be drawn somewhere.
Click to expand...


If that knowledge was all Snowden gave away, I would agree with you. But that is not all he gave away. If he had carefully vetted what he let out, and destroyed the rest, it would be a different story.
It's very much like the Bradley Manning BS. Snowden deserves similar accommodations in one of our fine federal institutions.

The NSA can eat a d***, for knowing that I took a dump at 7:32 AM, but Snowden can eat one too.
 
Bamboo said:
Holy shit you people are retarded.

Giving or intelligence capabilities to foreign states. Including the details on how, when and what providers/services are tapped into. How in the hell does that benefit the citizens of the U.S?
Click to expand...

images
 
Bamboo said:
Holy shit you people are retarded.

Giving or intelligence capabilities to foreign states. Including the details on how, when and what providers/services are tapped into. How in the hell does that benefit the citizens of the U.S?
Click to expand...

Good grief, the NSA could tell the whole world what they are doing and there isn't a damn thing anyone can do about it. You really think Snowden has slowed down the NSA even a millisecond? What encryption has the NSA not cracked/back doored/developed in secret? The NSA gets a bigger budget then most countries spend on their entire military.

Pull your head out of your butt.
 
GORANKAR said:
If that knowledge was all Snowden gave away, I would agree with you. But that is not all he gave away. If he had carefully vetted what he let out, and destroyed the rest, it would be a different story.
It's very much like the Bradley Manning BS. Snowden deserves similar accommodations in one of our fine federal institutions.

The NSA can eat a d***, for knowing that I took a dump at 7:32 AM, but Snowden can eat one too.
Click to expand...

Snowden gave everything he had to reporters.
Manning ( it is not "bradley" you transphobic or ignorant the news person) exposed WAR CRIMES that the US committed.
 
Bamboo said:
This fuck is not a patriot. Certainly not for U.S. citizens.

Look at all the other secrets he spilled to foreign nations. He could have stopped with telling about the NSA gathering info on U.S. citizens. Fucking traitor, plain and simple.
Click to expand...

If I saw him I'd give him a high five!
You know how many secrets/actions the gov keeps from us?

L2Google
 
Well, this American thinks Snowden is a hero. I also think Snowden would be a suicidal idiot to come back to this country, regardless of whatever "clemency" is promised by the goverment. If our government was trustworthy, Snowden wouldn't have had to flee in the first place. Fortunately, Snowden't not dumb enough to come back, though I suppose he might be coerced into doing so.

And no, I don't think the NSA has been stopped. I doubt they've altered their SOP much at all. However, they will have to be at least a *little* more circumspect for a while, and people in general might be a *bit* more aware of how their own government is spying on them, which may alter public sentiment to a degree.

Was it worth it? I don't know, but I wouldn't have done it. Either I'm not heroic enough or I just don't think it will change anything in the long run... probably both reasons. But that doesn't mean I don't respect the guy for at least *trying* to enact change. That took a lot of guts, IMO. I just wish it had more of a payoff in changing the way our government relates to the people it is supposed to serve.
 
Parts of what Snowden did were beneficial and parts were not (unlike Manning who by all rights should be put up against a wall and shot) ... however, Snowden did as much harm as good and personally I think the USA is well rid of him. He seems to have a nice gig going in Russia so let him stay there ... I don't mind giving him amnesty but only if he agrees to give up his citizenship to the USA and never return ... I would be violently opposed to allowing him to return to the USA
 
gabhpr said:
Snowden gave everything he had to reporters.
Manning ( it is not "bradley" you transphobic or ignorant the news person) exposed WAR CRIMES that the US committed.
Click to expand...

Chelsea, Bradley, whatever, I don't really care what he/she/it suddenly decides to call themselves in prison. If it makes you feel better, I will just call him/her/it "that traitorous moron", going forward. (you overly gender identification sensitive PC type person.) :p
 
Wow "it," really? You know there's a happy medium somewhere between overly pc ninny and total dismissive douche.
 
lmao@anyone who thinks snowden was an actual insider.

dude is a puppet, a PR stuntman for the nsa and gov.
if dude was legit, he wouldve been dead by now or dissappeared.

he continuously gave updates, and still does on what the nsa is doing, hows he doing this without getting caught, and who else is in on the inside.

hes moved around so much, and open to the public enough to be assassinated, yet he isnt.

hes nothing more than a puppet and marketing agent for what the gov is doing.
he gives us the updates, we gasp, and we do nothing about it. we just let it all happen, slowly but surely, then forget about it days later after talking about sports, or celeb crap.

we make a light joke about it at work, then go back to slaving away.

if hes granted this free to come back home with no jail or death, then i'll know for sure he was nothing more than a news pr stuntman for the nsa. brainwashing at its finest.
 
It is really disconcerting how many posters here are proponents of the belief that the ends justify the means. History has some terrible examples of exactly what happens when people and governments start thinking this way. The dubious constant threat of a poorly defined enemy should never be a justification for spying on ones own populace.

“War is peace.
Freedom is slavery.
Ignorance is strength.”
― George Orwell, 1984
 
Draax said:
It is really disconcerting how many posters here are proponents of the belief that the ends justify the means. History has some terrible examples of exactly what happens when people and governments start thinking this way. The dubious constant threat of a poorly defined enemy should never be a justification for spying on ones own populace.

“War is peace.
Freedom is slavery.
Ignorance is strength.”
― George Orwell, 1984
Click to expand...

If Snowden had only revealed how the NSA spies on the USA citizens I might have more sympathy but he also revealed how we spy on other countries citizens (which is kind of their raison d'etre) ... even though countries spy on each other all the time it is like the first rule of Fight Club (you don't talk about it) ... it is this part (and Mannings release of diplomatic communications) that make them traitors ... if they had been more circumspect on what they released I would support them, but they burned down the entire house just to catch a spider (in my opinion) ;)

Personally I would prefer we just take Great Britain's approach and put cameras everywhere ... I am not that worried about terrorism but regular run of the mill crime happens all the time and the cameras would assist police in their investigations and prosecutions
 
I have never subscribed to the "well everyone does it, so it's ok" belief ... It always reminded me of the logic, or lack there of, of adolescents. The ability to hold two conflicting beliefs in ones head, it's not ok to spy internally, without cause or justification, but it is externally, reminds me too much of the term "doublethink" which, coincidentally, was coined by Orwell.
Coincidental or not, the appearance of a number of Orwellian concepts is cause for serious reflection.
 
temujin987 said:
yup, that's how democracy should work, right? you know, governments can do things wrong too and should be exposed for that. if you assume that governments consist of perfect and benevolent beings and their actions should not be questioned (just because someone put a "top secret" stamp on it), then you're quite the idiot.
Click to expand...
A man who runs into a burning building to save a child later that night kills his wife. He still goes to jail.

He did stuff that served no purpose but to screw us with out allies and our intelligence gathering capability, probably to keep his hosts happy in return for shelter. Zero Pity for him.
 
Draax said:
I have never subscribed to the "well everyone does it, so it's ok" belief ... It always reminded me of the logic, or lack there of, of adolescents. The ability to hold two conflicting beliefs in ones head, it's not ok to spy internally, without cause or justification, but it is externally, reminds me too much of the term "doublethink" which, coincidentally, was coined by Orwell.
Coincidental or not, the appearance of a number of Orwellian concepts is cause for serious reflection.
Click to expand...

Not really, just the political reality of our current nationalistic models ... if we acted and behaved as what we are (a single unified species) then I would agree the concept of external spying would be ludicrous ... but we are still composed of more than 100 artificial nation states who are all competing for the same pool of resources and for political power with the other nation states ... while we remain in that cycle it would be suicidal for a country to not protect itself (and its interests) by engaging in a little external spying ... if at some future date (likely VERY far into the future) we become unified in our thinking and actions then spying on each other would no longer be prudent or necessary

Internal spying is something else entirely ... 9-11 made us more paranoid (and to a certain extent that is justified since as the last remaining Superpower we do have a big target on us) but we have taken it to unproductive extremes ... I don't think the differentiation between internal and external spying is double think at all ... China, Russia, and other nationalistic entities only have the interests of their own people (or subsets of their people) in mind ... it is OUR government's responsibility to look out for the interests of Americans and not those of any other competing country :cool:
 
kbrickley said:
If Snowden had only revealed how the NSA spies on the USA citizens I might have more sympathy but he also revealed how we spy on other countries citizens (which is kind of their raison d'etre) ... even though countries spy on each other all the time it is like the first rule of Fight Club (you don't talk about it) ... it is this part (and Mannings release of diplomatic communications) that make them traitors ... if they had been more circumspect on what they released I would support them, but they burned down the entire house just to catch a spider (in my opinion) ;)

Personally I would prefer we just take Great Britain's approach and put cameras everywhere ... I am not that worried about terrorism but regular run of the mill crime happens all the time and the cameras would assist police in their investigations and prosecutions
Click to expand...

That last statement has to be one of the most frightening things I've read on this forum. Being oblivious to it is one thing, actively supporting it though? What the hell man.. that kind of crap is a dictatorships wet dream and you are actively asking for it? No thank you.. leave my freedom alone.
 
Dekoth-E- said:
That last statement has to be one of the most frightening things I've read on this forum. Being oblivious to it is one thing, actively supporting it though? What the hell man.. that kind of crap is a dictatorships wet dream and you are actively asking for it? No thank you.. leave my freedom alone.
Click to expand...

Great Britain is not a dictatorship and the cameras help them solve crimes ... you could restrict the camera access to just the local governments who are responsible for law enforcement ... the only national cameras needed would be at the borders to monitor the entry into and exit from the country (which we already have at airports and border crossings) ... using technology responsibly in law enforcement is not a path to dictatorship it is common sense (but I would agree that we should keep most of the power centered at the State and Local level and not the Federal level) ... also, observing people in public spaces is not a violation of freedoms, only the observation in private spaces (within the boundaries of your house or dwelling), the court rulings on this have been very consistent for many decades ;)
 
kbrickley said:
Great Britain is not a dictatorship and the cameras help them solve crimes ... you could restrict the camera access to just the local governments who are responsible for law enforcement ... the only national cameras needed would be at the borders to monitor the entry into and exit from the country (which we already have at airports and border crossings) ... using technology responsibly in law enforcement is not a path to dictatorship it is common sense (but I would agree that we should keep most of the power centered at the State and Local level and not the Federal level) ... also, observing people in public spaces is not a violation of freedoms, only the observation in private spaces (within the boundaries of your house or dwelling), the court rulings on this have been very consistent for many decades ;)
Click to expand...

Then what is your issue with the NSA spying? As soon as you let the keystrokes go they are in the public space and you are entitled to no privacy under your logic.
 
I know signing petitions is the American way, but you’re only begging, supplicating, enlarging congressmen’s egos and importance. The better way -- just fire them and replace them with honest people. Petitions are just PR, the only signature that counts is at the ballot box.
 
maverikv said:
Wow "it," really? You know there's a happy medium somewhere between overly pc ninny and total dismissive douche.
Click to expand...

Just covering all the bases, and he/she/it does that. Pick the one that you find most fitting in the sentence until they come out with a new pronoun to replace he, she, and it.
 
Paul_Johnson said:
Then what is your issue with the NSA spying? As soon as you let the keystrokes go they are in the public space and you are entitled to no privacy under your logic.
Click to expand...

The NSA is not a law enforcement agency ... I also worry about information overload if they try to collect too much information ... spying externally still serves useful purposes (even with the end of the Cold War) since the USA is in both military and economic competition with other nation states (and the intelligence collected by the NSA could help us in that competition) ... video surveillance (or other domestic monitoring) should be part of a law enforcement agency where they are monitored within the justice system and used to solve crime (not necessarily prevent it) ... the secrecy of the NSA only makes sense when they are looking outward otherwise, as Snowden revealed, internal spying is ripe for abuse with that level of secrecy

Washington power players always use international incidents to their advantage and no agency benefited from 9-11 more than the NSA ... with the end of the Cold War their purpose was already getting a little hazy ... 9-11 gave them unprecedented scope and powers ... the CIA and NSA are both extremely useful agencies when they have their eye pointed at other nations ... when they start to overlap with the FBI they become more problematic ... I would also like to keep the information gathering agencies separated from the law enforcement agencies as much as possible so that they can have a little bit of check and balance effect on each other (CIA and NSA proposes, while Military and FBI disposes)
 
He didn't try to sell or profit by the information in any way nor was a spy, and considering the information released, I believe he acted in good faith and with reasonable cause as a whistle blower and should be protected as such.
 
kbrickley said:
The NSA is not a law enforcement agency ... I also worry about information overload if they try to collect too much information ... spying externally still serves useful purposes (even with the end of the Cold War) since the USA is in both military and economic competition with other nation states (and the intelligence collected by the NSA could help us in that competition) ... video surveillance (or other domestic monitoring) should be part of a law enforcement agency where they are monitored within the justice system and used to solve crime (not necessarily prevent it) ... the secrecy of the NSA only makes sense when they are looking outward otherwise, as Snowden revealed, internal spying is ripe for abuse with that level of secrecy
Click to expand...

Law enforcement agencies are NOT monitored within the justice anymore than the NSA is. Just like the NSA, you have to sue them if you believe they did something wrong. So again, what is your complaint about the NSA spying on you when you are begging the police to as well? As soon as you pick up a phone and speak or you type something you have just put it in the public realm and by your logic it SHOULD be intercepted, monitored, and you have no privacy. Enjoy the fact that the NSA has embraced your ideals of spying on the American public for their own good.
 
kbrickley said:
Washington power players always use international incidents to their advantage and no agency benefited from 9-11 more than the NSA ... with the end of the Cold War their purpose was already getting a little hazy ... 9-11 gave them unprecedented scope and powers ... the CIA and NSA are both extremely useful agencies when they have their eye pointed at other nations ... when they start to overlap with the FBI they become more problematic ... I would also like to keep the information gathering agencies separated from the law enforcement agencies as much as possible so that they can have a little bit of check and balance effect on each other (CIA and NSA proposes, while Military and FBI disposes)
Click to expand...

Great Britain is not a dictatorship and the cameras help them solve crimes ... you could restrict the camera access to just the local governments who are responsible for law enforcement ... the only national cameras needed would be at the borders to monitor the entry into and exit from the country (which we already have at airports and border crossings) ... using technology responsibly in law enforcement is not a path to dictatorship it is common sense (but I would agree that we should keep most of the power centered at the State and Local level and not the Federal level) ... also, observing people in public spaces is not a violation of freedoms, only the observation in private spaces (within the boundaries of your house or dwelling), the court rulings on this have been very consistent for many decades
Click to expand...

So, in other words hand over the NSA's domestic spying to the FBI as you have proposed and it will all be good and you no longer have a complaint then.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top