Snowden Considers Returning to the US

CommanderFrank

CommanderFrank

Cat Can't Scratch It
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Edward Snowden, the whistleblower extraordinaire of NSA leaks fame held an interview of sorts, answering questions posed by Twitter users concerning his actions, their repercussions and his possible return to the US.

Returning to the US, I think, is the best resolution for the government, the public, and myself, but it’s unfortunately not possible in the face of current whistleblower protection laws.
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So when is the Paul Greengrass movie with Matt Damon as Edward Snowden coming out.
 
Well he has a modicum of sense.

Snowden is not a whistleblower, legally.
 
Snowden *should* be classified as a whistleblower and allowed to return. Perhaps Obama will give him a pardon, but I wouldn't hold my breath.

If he ever returns I would not be surprised if he has an "accident" within a few years of returning.
 
Iay not agree with the program he outed but I'd have more interest in seeing Snowden anywhere except prison if he had actually tried to be a whistleblower thru the established method.
 
kydsid said:
Iay not agree with the program he outed but I'd have more interest in seeing Snowden anywhere except prison if he had actually tried to be a whistleblower thru the established method.
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There is no "established method" for people like Snowden to be a whistleblower in the USA. The legal definition of "whistleblower" is incredibly narrow and in no way applies to him to legally disclose anything he knew of.

Can love him or hate him...but there wasn't another way that was anymore legal.
 
Anyone that approves of or supports Snowden in anyway supports terrorism somewhere somehow someway.





;)
 
There is a problem when the "whistleblowee" gets to decide who is the "whistleblower". :rolleyes:

The fed's have a track record of labeling everything "state secrets" at any trials involving the NSA wrongdoings. There have actually been dozens of lawsuits and trials over the last few years, and none of them have gone forward or been justly tried thanks to lots of top secret and state secret claims and non-admission of facts and evidence into the record so the judge/jury could ever engage in a fair trial.

So Snowden is actually FORCED to release 100% of what he has taken, to get it into the public domain, so it cannot be suppressed as state secrets any longer .... the Government would be wise to just call him a whistleblower, give him the requisite protections, let him come home, and preempt continued releases. He has only released a fraction of the total of embarrassing and threatening NSA information he has.

But the lunkhead pitbull clamped on an ankle that is our Government, just can't bring itself to let go, even in its own best interest.
 
He leaked the existence of PRISM even though there were articles in 2009 about a huge government warehouse in Utah...but I'm pretty sure people who knew about this warehouse (then again the media wasn't eating this up at the time) thought the inside of this government warehouse contained a huge version of a McDonalds playground for the children and....everything else he has leaked been on Google for a decade


That said, he should clearly be able to come back without any worry
 
If they had any brains, they'd elect him to the Senate and appoint him chairman of the intelligence committee.
 
kydsid said:
Iay not agree with the program he outed but I'd have more interest in seeing Snowden anywhere except prison if he had actually tried to be a whistleblower thru the established method.
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"Established Method" is context of the NSA? LMAO. Delusional.
 
Scythe said:
Snowden *should* be classified as a whistleblower and allowed to return. Perhaps Obama will give him a pardon, but I wouldn't hold my breath.

If he ever returns I would not be surprised if he has an "accident" within a few years of returning.
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Pardons usually happen at the very end of a presidency snowden would be a fool to return now:p.
 
kydsid said:
Iay not agree with the program he outed but I'd have more interest in seeing Snowden anywhere except prison if he had actually tried to be a whistleblower thru the established method.
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Because that went over well with Bradley Manning?
 
Sly said:
Because that went over well with Bradley Manning?
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Manning went to wikileaks afaik. I've never heard of Manning attempting to contact anyone in the chain of command, OIG or Congress. Manning had even more protection than Snowden in the law as a member of the armed forces, a protection that likely extends to Snowden but we will never know now.
 
When everyone on above you, including the congressmen, are in on it, what do you do? And when his leaks got public he turned himself in. What happened to him? Where is his protection? And more importantly, what did people do with the information he put out? afaik, nothing's changed in the military, his leaks got buried in legalese, and he's now in jail.

In comparison, Snowdens method is more effective. The issue got stretched long enough for the claims of his information putting people in danger to be proven unfounded. And the public outcry is what's pushing congress to fix it. If anything, Snowden's showing the right way to be a whistleblower. The excuses the officials are making, like them being misled, or being ignorant, are things that wouldn't have come to light otherwise without them being pressured from multiple sides.
 
Manning didn't turn himself in he got rated out by a coworker. As for his info, doesn't wikileaks still have it?

One thing I do give points for to Snowden is he hasn't released everything to wikileaks or anyone else.

Time will tell if Snowden was more effective. But I have the same level of cynacism that will end up true that you do for the government.
 
The funny thing about Intel, is the longer you have it, the more useless it is. The longer Leaks holds onto it, trying to flaunt what ever they may have the world cares less.
 
The funniest thing about the Snowden method, only 10-20% has been released, and he(they) wait until some asshole like the DNI, CIA director or NSA director goes before Congress, gets questioned.... LIES .... and then they release whatever tidbits expose the lying to Congress. :eek::cool:

At least he has a sense of humor.
 
I think I stand against most people when it comes to Snowden. There is no doubt whatsoever that the outcome of what he did has been positive. That being said, what he did is akin to a Secret Service agent guarding a dirty senator stepping aside during an attack and letting the senator get killed. Yes the US is probably better off for it. Yes, the world is probably better off for it. But how was it his decision to make? The oath Snowden took before taking that job didn't have an "unless you disagree or dislike what you see" clause.
 
Skripka said:
Well he has a modicum of sense.

Snowden is not a whistleblower, legally.
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If the *ONLY* thing he did was reveal that these programs exist, I'd be okay with calling him a whistleblower and argue that he should be protected.

But the fact that he got the job he did *SOLELY* to find classified information, for the sole purpose of leaking it... The fact that these happened to be the programs he got info on is irrelevant.

I'm sorry, I have no sympathy for him. Yes, I'm glad the information on these programs came out, and hopefully something good will come of it (reforming the programs, etc.) But he released military secrets. Plain and simple.
 
If he comes back he'll be tried in some secret court and rot in jail for no reason. No point in being a martyr like that.

Longterm I doubt it'll slow things down much, was just reading about the "Western firewall" this morning, I guess we deserve it.
 
There is no "established method" for people like Snowden to be a whistleblower in the USA. The legal definition of "whistleblower" is incredibly narrow and in no way applies to him to legally disclose anything he knew of.
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That's cause he didn't do it right.

You have to do it right.

Calypso, I release you from your mortal bonds :D

If he had at least tried to bring it up through the proper channels then he would have had a leg to stand on, but he didn't.

Besides, some of the stuff being released has nothing to do with US rights and privacy violations and for those incautious acts he better stay away unless he is will to face up to what he did and take his chances in court. His choice.
 
The ideas that he will "have an accident", or be tried in a secret court, are bullshit. We have plenty enough posters here at work with the faces of the convicted displayed as a warning. People still do this stuff, hell Snowden got started before he was even given legal access to classified to begin with. That's his real problem, it's one thing to be let in on a secret and then say "this is wrong", it's another to break in and steal it just because "you think something is going on". The guy only got his security clearance and access a few months before he started work and all of a sudden he knows so much about it all he has to take it public? He was a noob, he did a foolish thing, and he has to live with it now. No amount of feel-good interviews and such about what he might "consider" is going to change that what he did was wrong, and that he never even tried to do it right.
 
KarsusTG said:
I think I stand against most people when it comes to Snowden. There is no doubt whatsoever that the outcome of what he did has been positive. That being said, what he did is akin to a Secret Service agent guarding a dirty senator stepping aside during an attack and letting the senator get killed. Yes the US is probably better off for it. Yes, the world is probably better off for it. But how was it his decision to make? The oath Snowden took before taking that job didn't have an "unless you disagree or dislike what you see" clause.
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CharonPDX said:
If the *ONLY* thing he did was reveal that these programs exist, I'd be okay with calling him a whistleblower and argue that he should be protected.

But the fact that he got the job he did *SOLELY* to find classified information, for the sole purpose of leaking it... The fact that these happened to be the programs he got info on is irrelevant.

I'm sorry, I have no sympathy for him. Yes, I'm glad the information on these programs came out, and hopefully something good will come of it (reforming the programs, etc.) But he released military secrets. Plain and simple.
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How else are the secrets meant to get out when you make people swear a stupid oath to get in the club?
 
How else are the secrets meant to get out when you make people swear a stupid oath to get in the club?
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How else are they supposed to get out? They aren't supposed to get out, at least not until they become declassified which means their revelation can no longer damage the Security of the US.

All Snowden had to do was go to the right people and make his case that the meta-data program was wrong. It's straight open door stuff, he starts low with his supervisors and works his way up the line until either someone shows him how it's not wrong and his conscience is relieved, or he reaches someone who believes he is right and takes up the case. Either way, there is a right way to do it and he never tried. He took it on himself to claim it was wrong and to act to expose it.

chokomonkey there really is a right way to stop something like this if it's wrong, it's been done before.
 
Even if the majority of the people gave a shit, which they don't, nothing will change. The general population has 0 impact on political, economic, foreign, or any policy for that matter.

best thing to do is work your 9 to 5 to afford your useless foreign made products and food then die. Maybe fuck and play video games if you have the time, money, and energy a few times before death.
 
lcpiper said:
How else are they supposed to get out? They aren't supposed to get out, at least not until they become declassified which means their revelation can no longer damage the Security of the US.

All Snowden had to do was go to the right people and make his case that the meta-data program was wrong. It's straight open door stuff, he starts low with his supervisors and works his way up the line until either someone shows him how it's not wrong and his conscience is relieved, or he reaches someone who believes he is right and takes up the case. Either way, there is a right way to do it and he never tried. He took it on himself to claim it was wrong and to act to expose it.

chokomonkey there really is a right way to stop something like this if it's wrong, it's been done before.
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Yes yes, we've been through this before. You say it can be done within the system. I say that the buck would stop with the first corrupt official who would then silence the movement and the person making a fuss.
stevedave said:
Even if the majority of the people gave a shit, which they don't, nothing will change. The general population has 0 impact on political, economic, foreign, or any policy for that matter.

best thing to do is work your 9 to 5 to afford your useless foreign made products and food then die. Maybe fuck and play video games if you have the time, money, and energy a few times before death.
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Yea pretty much. Sad state of affairs--but shit would have to get SOOO much worse for the lazy Americans to get off their couch and fight for their rights.
 
Yes yes, we've been through this before. You say it can be done within the system. I say that the buck would stop with the first corrupt official who would then silence the movement and the person making a fuss.
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Who silenced the FISA Court Judge that halted the first NSA meta-data program? Who shut him up?
 
Haha. I guess. It's a process right? I mean the NSA does have a job to do, I sure hope they are doing it well. I think they mostly have for so many years. Usually it's easy. Usually there is no issue of "is it ours or theirs?". Usually it's like this radio station in some country is broadcasting this and that and they just record it and listen to it, or a ship is using Morse code, same thing, not a US vessel so see what they are talking about. But foreigners who come to the US and communicate through American carriers, this get's tough, how do you do this? The rules say they can listen to everything he is saying, but what about if he calls an American? If he were still home calling from overseas, no problem, it's recorded doesn't matter who is on this end as long as the call originated overseas, but now the same guy is in the US and the laws didn't cover that. They changed the laws, we know this, it's not news. But the impact, they changed the laws to allow them to continue tracking the communications of non-US Persons inside the US, so the law says it's OK now, but that isn't enough, "how do you do it so that it is really OK?" That is the hard part. The first program didn't measure up, the Judge canned it. The NSA came back to the Judge and said, OK, how about if we do it this way?, the Judge said OK, if you do it that way then it's OK. There are still questions about this, questions about was the NSA really truthful about all aspects of the new program, did they do everything the Judge said they must do in order to be compliant with his orders. In the end, this is going to continue, the back and forth. It's not a problem, it's part of the process, it's what we need in order to come to grips with what is right, and what isn't.
 
lcpiper said:
Haha. I guess. It's a process right? I mean the NSA does have a job to do, I sure hope they are doing it well. I think they mostly have for so many years. Usually it's easy. Usually there is no issue of "is it ours or theirs?". Usually it's like this radio station in some country is broadcasting this and that and they just record it and listen to it, or a ship is using Morse code, same thing, not a US vessel so see what they are talking about. But foreigners who come to the US and communicate through American carriers, this get's tough, how do you do this? The rules say they can listen to everything he is saying, but what about if he calls an American? If he were still home calling from overseas, no problem, it's recorded doesn't matter who is on this end as long as the call originated overseas, but now the same guy is in the US and the laws didn't cover that. They changed the laws, we know this, it's not news. But the impact, they changed the laws to allow them to continue tracking the communications of non-US Persons inside the US, so the law says it's OK now, but that isn't enough, "how do you do it so that it is really OK?" That is the hard part. The first program didn't measure up, the Judge canned it. The NSA came back to the Judge and said, OK, how about if we do it this way?, the Judge said OK, if you do it that way then it's OK. There are still questions about this, questions about was the NSA really truthful about all aspects of the new program, did they do everything the Judge said they must do in order to be compliant with his orders. In the end, this is going to continue, the back and forth. It's not a problem, it's part of the process, it's what we need in order to come to grips with what is right, and what isn't.
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Yep. In today's world, there is unfortunately no right or easy answer. If the enemy has infiltrated your borders and even started breeding with your people, what the fuck are you supposed to do?
 
lcpiper said:
How else are they supposed to get out? They aren't supposed to get out, at least not until they become declassified which means their revelation can no longer damage the Security of the US.

All Snowden had to do was go to the right people and make his case that the meta-data program was wrong. It's straight open door stuff, he starts low with his supervisors and works his way up the line until either someone shows him how it's not wrong and his conscience is relieved, or he reaches someone who believes he is right and takes up the case. Either way, there is a right way to do it and he never tried. He took it on himself to claim it was wrong and to act to expose it.

chokomonkey there really is a right way to stop something like this if it's wrong, it's been done before.
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This...
 
KarsusTG said:
This...
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reading-laugh.gif
 
I'm not saying I don't want him back but...
Can we pass a law permanently revoking citizenship to defecting albinos?
 
I've got a spare room. Rent free.

Driving distance to DC or Bethesda.
 
The sad thing is is that the vast majority of Americans don't care what Snowden has to say. Go to your nearest grocery store and take a poll of the first 10 people you see. Ask them if they know who he is. Your'e lucky if 1-2 out of 10 will say they do.

As long as the local McDonalds stays stocked and American Idol/Dancing With The Stars is on the air, nobody will give a shit.
 
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