President Scales Back NSA Program

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No heads rolled? No one was even reprimanded? Just a "we'll spy on you differently from now on" speech? :(

In a major speech, Obama took steps to reassure Americans and foreigners alike that the United States will take into account privacy concerns that arose after former U.S. spy contractor Snowden's damaging disclosures about the large monitoring activities of the National Security Agency.
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Par for the course for this Administration.

So instead of civil service NSA workers spying, we'll let outside contractors do the dirty work... wait, wasn't Snowden a contractor? :rolleyes:
 
Who's heads would you like to roll? The main criticism here was that the so-called "most transparent administration in history" was continuing these activities that were already in place. What time period should they hop in their time machine and go back to in order to fire people?
 
So, the only verifiable thing mentioned is that telcos and ISPs can tell us more about requests that have been made of them. Everything else is trust us.

As for scaling back, where's that. They'll still collect it, and now will require it be approved by some unnamed judge just like before. For the purpose of fighting terrorism, protecting us troops, and combating crime. So basically, before it was used for the first two, but he now added in a domestic purpose.

I'm not seeing the improvement here other than maybe agent Todd can't use it to harass his ex or stalk that cute barista without having a third party be aware of it.
 
maverikv said:
Who's heads would you like to roll? The main criticism here was that the so-called "most transparent administration in history" was continuing these activities that were already in place. What time period should they hop in their time machine and go back to in order to fire people?
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My big problem was that when asked by people (even members of congress), the answer was "No, we do not do that" (or some variation like "We do not collect data in that manner"). A week later, documents were released that said yes, they do that. So, they change their answer to "We do collect data in that manner, but not in the exact way you asked before.". It's the lying when directly asked. So, it was pretty much saying the NSA doesn't have to answer to the government of the US. I don't agree with the way they collect their information, but it was the lying that got me. Because they "don't do" a lot of things...
 
maverikv said:
Who's heads would you like to roll? The main criticism here was that the so-called "most transparent administration in history" was continuing these activities that were already in place. What time period should they hop in their time machine and go back to in order to fire people?
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The Obama administration expanded what was already in place. They did that with virtually every policy that then-candidate Obama said he would overturn, especially War on Terror-related policies. He made a big deal in 2008 about closing Guantanamo--it's still open.

I personally derive a large amount of schadenfreude from the Obama disillusion in the tech media, but it's tempered by the observation that said media members haven't really learned their lesson. Nilay Patel would vote for Obama all over again. It's saddening.
 
Terpfen said:
The Obama administration expanded what was already in place. They did that with virtually every policy that then-candidate Obama said he would overturn, especially War on Terror-related policies. He made a big deal in 2008 about closing Guantanamo--it's still open.

I personally derive a large amount of schadenfreude from the Obama disillusion in the tech media, but it's tempered by the observation that said media members haven't really learned their lesson. Nilay Patel would vote for Obama all over again. It's saddening.
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Don't get me wrong, I disagree with the continuing of these programs, but what was exanded exactly? It sucks that Gitmo wasn't closed like he promised, but is that an example of expansion?
 
 
So instead of civil service NSA workers spying, we'll let outside contractors do the dirty work... wait, wasn't Snowden a contractor?
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They both do it, and the rules are the same regardless of who is doing it.
 
What time period should they hop in their time machine and go back to in order to fire people?
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Shit, thousands of Snowden Documents to chose from and no one has even shown a reason to fire anyone yet.
 
As for scaling back, where's that. They'll still collect it, and now will require it be approved by some unnamed judge just like before. For the purpose of fighting terrorism, protecting us troops, and combating crime. So basically, before it was used for the first two, but he now added in a domestic purpose.
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No, they didn't collect it, people just keep accusing them of what they aren't doing, misrepresenting the truth and insisting that what is being done is illegal.

Just like your comment here ...
So basically, before it was used for the first two, but he now added in a domestic purpose.
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You read this as adding in Law Enforcement use of the data, but you completely neglect the concept that espionage is a criminal act, that foreigners are the ones who commit espionage, the FBI is responsible for it, and they were doing it before so the wording doesn't add anything. You are just not considering that it was there before as well.
 
Now, where's your 'faith'? ;)

Just because he's lied like a dog since he took the oath of office, doesn't mean that he's lying now :D :D :D
 
Rule #1: If Obama's lips are moving he's lying

Rule #2: When the kitchen gets too hot (Benghazi, IRS, Obamacare etc) he steers people into he pantry promising cookies

Rule #3: Outsourcing makes problems worse because it allows escape from oversight. Its the same with "czars" who can be appointed without congressional approval.
 
A week later, documents were released that said yes, they do that.
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No such thing was released that proved this. Documents were released that reporters claimed "suggested that they do it". That's been the problem all along, the reporters releasing these documents keep making things sound like they are something that they are not.

I have been here telling you guys, and showing you guys what is going on and still so many will not accept it.
 
Just because he's lied like a dog since he took the oath of office, doesn't mean that he's lying now
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Yet, I don't disagree with this statement at all.
 
Scales back ? Doesn't that imply ACTION ?

More accurately would be, President announces alleged intent to scale back. I'll believe it when I see it, and since the program is secret, nobody would really ever know anyhow.

Doubtful at best.
 
Seriously, go read Orwell's 1984 just to get an idea of what Obama and his political party would love to do to America.
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Actually, I think it's unfair to paint all Democrat's with this brush. I even think the Obama types have supporters in the Republican party as well.
 
maverikv said:
Don't get me wrong, I disagree with the continuing of these programs, but what was exanded exactly? It sucks that Gitmo wasn't closed like he promised, but is that an example of expansion?
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Why does that suck, exactly ? We already know beyond a shadow of a doubt that people released from Gitmo, for whatever reason, have gone back and participated in terrorism.

With that in mind, how exactly do you propose closing it, and really, why ? Best case you're transferring them to some other prison. What's the difference ?
 
Terpfen said:
I personally derive a large amount of schadenfreude from the Obama disillusion in the tech media, but it's tempered by the observation that said media members haven't really learned their lesson. Nilay Patel would vote for Obama all over again. It's saddening.
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Cognitive dissonance runs strong in all forms of media, and a large portion of the voting public.

People like Nilay Patel won't admit they made a mistake, because it would violate their belief in what they thought he would do, and that they made a good decision when they voted for him.
 
mavrocket said:
Cognitive dissonance runs strong in all forms of media, and a large portion of the voting public.

People like Nilay Patel won't admit they made a mistake, because it would violate their belief in what they thought he would do, and that they made a good decision when they voted for him.
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It may very well be cognitive dissonance. But I think the underlying issue is just that Nilay Patel, like most media members, are liberals, and will always vote for the liberal even if they are repeatedly let down by those candidates.

The alternative is to vote for the other guy, but they'll never do that. It would require admitting that their fundamental beliefs are incorrect.
 
deadrody said:
Why does that suck, exactly ? We already know beyond a shadow of a doubt that people released from Gitmo, for whatever reason, have gone back and participated in terrorism.

With that in mind, how exactly do you propose closing it, and really, why ? Best case you're transferring them to some other prison. What's the difference ?
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Because people are imprisoned there without process and interrogated with torture?
 
I expected nothing less, just a bunch of circle talk with absolutely nothing done.
 
Because you're brainwashed X-military...and extremely biased.
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Of course I am biased, everyone is biased. But I am not brainwashed. I am every bit as serious a defender of personal freedoms as anyone else can claim to be. The fact that I have been showing you guys who is really lying to you, who is really manipulating you, who is really threatening your freedom and you ignore it because it's so easy for you to buy off that it's the big government NSA surveillance police state is the saddest part of the entire sorry deal.

I told you guys weeks ago they were not going to really change anything because they weren't really doing anything wrong and because we need them to keep doing what they are doing. I think this article shows that my prediction was correct even if you disagree with they reasons why.

I have showed you were reporters show you documents that say one thing but claim they are proof of something else.

I have showed you where even "edgy" guys like The Young Turk will take the answers to two entirely different questions and claim they are evidence of a lie and people believe it because either they want to believe it or because they didn't listen close enough to recognize the falseness of his report.

I am biased, I am biased by what I know through real life experience and what I believe in, that we still have the best country in the world, that we won't keep it that way unless we look after it. I believe we have the power to change it if you would stop listening to the fools that claim otherwise.

I mean come on, if we were all truly powerless, why would they even bother hiding the stuff some of you accuse them of. Why would they even need to lie? They could just do like China and tell you the way it is and to suck up and deal with it.
 
Because people are imprisoned there without process and interrogated with torture?
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Because combatants, Prisoners of War, are kept there according to the rules of the Geneva Convention and the conflict they supported has not been concluded.
 
Terpfen said:
al Qaeda is not signatory to the Geneva Convention.
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The problem is that they can deem that you are a terrorist and hold you indefinitely as an American citizen without due process and without notifying your next of kin or giving you a phone call, so one day you are doing your regular routine and the next you just disappeared off the face of the planet as far as everyone knows. Such an event is unlikely, but the problem is even if you trust this administration, once you've given the government that power who is to say that the next or powers that be four elections from now won't grossly abuse it.

Once you give a government a power over anything, its very difficult to take it away. The founding fathers understood that, and history has proven it, so I don't know why people still forget it.
 
lcpiper said:
I am biased, I am biased by what I know through real life experience and what I believe in, that we still have the best country in the world, that we won't keep it that way unless we look after it. I believe we have the power to change it if you would stop listening to the fools that claim otherwise.
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For truth.

"Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. We didn't pass it to our children in the bloodstream. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on for them to do the same, or one day we will spend our sunset years telling our children and our children's children what is was once like in the United States where men were free."

Fight on lcpiper.
 
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